Must we thank (1) Jefferson’s God, or (2) Trump’s God or (3) no God or (4) or just the founders themselves

[Grumblenuts]

In Italy, as with abortion,

the use of contraceptives continues to be perceived by most of the population as neither a sin nor a rebellion.”

 

[whutTHEYsay]

So **** you and the idiot who wrote that stupid diatribe.

Why **** me. I steadfastly maintain the Truth that the first six out of seven Prresidents were not Christians in a way as much we know the Trump Christian’s to be.

The diatribe from a Catholic theologian’s point of view is the most powerful explanation ever written as to why TJ is not a Christian that I have ever found and I love it.

A sample from the diatribe:

Jefferson came to worship his "trinity of genius": Francis Bacon, Sir Isaac Newton, and John Locke.5​

​

None of these Enlightenment thinkers, whom Jefferson saw as personifying his naive faith in empirical science, could offer him a deeper view of man as spiritual person. They were modern, Protestant writers whose understanding of the philosophy and civilization of the Middle Ages was tenuous at best. So far was John Locke from the medieval Catholic appreciation of man as made in the image of God, as a spiritual person with all the implications for private and social life, that his empiricism led him in his political and ethical theory to reduce man to a kind of atom in mere combination with others (social compact theory)—led him, accordingly, to neglect a serious analysis of the concept of the common good, and to suggest a crude hedonistic utilitarianism.6 All of these typically Enlightenment errors and superficialities were repeated by Jefferson and Locke's other American students, undermining the very edifice of the new nation that they were to build. However, the Englishman's positive contribution of a natural rights doctrine in his Second Treatise of Government perhaps compensated for these grave weaknesses of thought at least in the short​

​

END2210051423​

 

[whutTHEYsay]

In the decision Roe vs. Wade the justices admitted that such decisions were beyond their scope of expertise. So the proper thing to do was consult those experts. Instead, they just shrugged their shoulders and hid behind the privacy of women.

NFBW: Dobbs is consulting the voting masses to decide that heartbeat sounds is the moment human life begins in the form of an embryo, And that sound means the embryo has the right to cause harm and or death to its mother over and above the mother’s right to prevent harm to herself.,

One such potential voter depending on the state where he votes.

ELEKTRA220503-#63 “Abortion is murder if there is a heartbeat”

NFBW: The SCOTUS has decided a stste government can coerce a woman to cause harm to her body if enough voters in her state believe a detectable heartbeat sound means a person exists inside her body, The beating heart means the embryo is legally and Constitutionally born a new US citizen and the window of opportunity to terminate her pregnancy has passed. END2210051609

 

[whutTHEYsay]

What is the jeffeson mentality

A non-Christian mentality of secular religion bereft of the Catholic Church's wisdom and maternal protection, with false principles, known collectively as liberalism according to Donald J. D'Elia

Often it has happened in history and in life itself that a good but naive man's principles have been mercilessly exposed by time to reveal logical implications, which he would have condemned in his own lifetime. Such was notably the case with Thomas Jefferson who, bereft of the Church's wisdom and maternal protection, fell victim to false principles long ago unmasked by Revelation and true philosophy. These false principles, known collectively as liberalism, were made by Jefferson into a kind of religion, as we shall see; and in using the prestige of the presidency to advance this secular religion, Jefferson unwittingly proved himself to be the first of a long line of abusers of the highest office of the land. For the Jeffersonian mentality, despite all good intentions, leads inexorably to moral nihilism and the abortionist Supreme Court of the 1970's. This item 2884 digitally provided courtesy of CatholicCulture.org​

Would you like me to list them?

Yes Please.




NFBW: In Case you are wondering about the source Dr. Donald J D’Elia, ;

History professor receives Pope Pius XI Award​

Posted on April 24, 2003​

NEW PALTZ — The Society of Catholic Social Sciences has conferred the Pope Pius XI award on Dr. Donald J D’Elia, professor of history at The State University of New York at New Paltz. The award, named after the Roman Pontiff who led the Roman Catholic Church from 1922 – 1939, is given to scholars who have made outstanding contributions to the understanding of Catholic social doctrine.​

​

Dr. D’Elia has taught at SUNY New Paltz for more than three decades. He also has taught at Penn State University, Bloomsburg State University, Marist College and served as an adjunct in the Graduate School of New York University.​

​

The author and co-author of many books on American history, Dr. D’Elia’s “Dr. Benjamin Rush: Philosopher of the American Revolution,” published by the American Philosophical Society in 1974, is a standard in the field of American Revolution scholarship. The book was described as “magnificent” in the “Journal of the American Medical Association” and was cited for its importance by the Institute for Early American History and Culture in its “Bicentennial Bibliography of the American Revolution” (1976). The Library of the History of Ideas has selected his work as among the “best of the essays on the American Enlightenment” to have appeared in the prestigious “Journal of the History of Ideas.​

​

END2210051653

 

[elektra]

A non-Christian mentality of secular religion bereft of the Catholic Church's wisdom and maternal protection, with false principles, known collectively as liberalism according to Donald J. D'Elia

Often it has happened in history and in life itself that a good but naive man's principles have been mercilessly exposed by time to reveal logical implications, which he would have condemned in his own lifetime. Such was notably the case with Thomas Jefferson who, bereft of the Church's wisdom and maternal protection, fell victim to false principles long ago unmasked by Revelation and true philosophy. These false principles, known collectively as liberalism, were made by Jefferson into a kind of religion, as we shall see; and in using the prestige of the presidency to advance this secular religion, Jefferson unwittingly proved himself to be the first of a long line of abusers of the highest office of the land. For the Jeffersonian mentality, despite all good intentions, leads inexorably to moral nihilism​

and the abortionist Supreme Court of the 1970's. This item 2884 digitally provided courtesy of CatholicCulture.org​

That is a long winded nothing-burger.

Liberalism, as defined today, or liberalism as it meant in 1800?

Catholic Church? Big deal, who cares? So the Catholic church has a problem with Jefferson not being a Catholic, means nothing to the majority of Americans?

Naive? Jefferson is naive? That is pure bullshit.

False principles known as liberalism? Again a big nothing-burger. Why no example of the false principles? Why no examples of Jefferson being naive.

moral nihilism? more bullshit

And, can you not articulate you opinion? I am having a discussion with a google search, not you. Thus far you have only proved that you know very little outside of a google search.

 

[initforme]

Those that owned slaves have zero respect from this american born citizen.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

As for myself, this all comes down to discriminating against the individual based on stages of development.

What separate individual (person) exists inside the womb of a pregnant woman at 18 weeks who can be discriminated against? We are a society of civilized ethical individual human beings with free will and capability to think and have compassion for others who are basically like us (the mother). That can include a woman faced with an unwanted pregnancy.

Are you telling me that If I fail to intervene (cause the government to intervene with law and force) when a woman finds herself in an unwanted pregnancy seeking no harm to herself, and that I have know way of knowing anything about, I am discriminating against an unviable individual (person) that I have no civic responsibility to protect as if it is viable?

So the question must be asked, when does a human become human?

It was settled fifty years ago. Viability:

 

[elektra]

NFBW: Premise: The religious belief’s of the founding fathers are tied to the politics of abortion the past 50 years / you will have to read the CATHOLIC condemnation of Jefferson and his cult of secular religion if you are interested in finding out why - and more.

Premise, I find this the most ridiculous, premise, yet. Mostly because we are told we must read the Catholic blah blah blah if we are interested in figuring out what and why and how?

Seriously, this is a pretty piss poor way to start any thread.

Religious beliefs are tied to the politics of abortion? There can not be a bigger line of bullshit, throughout the entire usmessage boards.

It is only religious people that are against the killing of babies? Call it abortion if you like, but the Democrats unanimously voted to abort babies literally minutes before they are born. And of course, if the baby survives an abortion, which they do, frequently, Democrats are passing laws stating a nurse or abortionist can not comfort nor feed or do anything that will allow that baby to live. Which is why democrats are so busy fighting laws that state an abortion clinic must have deal with local hospitals to take women and their babies undergo some terrible mishap during the abortion. A mishap during an abortion is the baby lives. So the democrats do now want laws tying an abortion clinic to an real hospital with real doctors in a real surgery room.

So it is not only religious people who oppose abortion.

The religious beliefs of the founding fathers? Great show us how today or yesterday, those beliefs of our founders are in any way or shape, law? There is no tie, to Trump and his Supreme court. Certainly we can see that Trump never operated or made decisions based on his religious beliefs. All the founder's beliefs are in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.

It would be nice if the OP lived up to the premise, which remains a false premise, unless the author of this OP, steps up his game and offers in his own words, not a google cut/paste, in his or her own words, tying Trump and abortion laws to the founders beliefs.

So how about stepping up your game mr. notfooled, you are leaving legit comments unanswered, your thread, common courtesy says you answer all relevant comments. Also, substantiate the premise.

This thread really is a huge pile of bullshit, where the false premise that the op is, has nothing in common with the content in the thread.

 

[elektra]

It was settled fifty years ago. Viability:

You answer many comments while skipping over many, why is that. Can we say that you have failed and this is now proven a false premise. If you can not answer us users comments, why start a thread?

Viability, was settled 50 years ago? Medical science was settled 50 years ago? I do not need to say anymore than what you just said.

You really have no idea what you are talking about here, in regards to the law, the courts, jefferson, and religion.

This is not a religious issue. It is simple, it is life. That is the issue.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

This thread really is a huge pile of bullshit,

NFBW: over your head is it. OK for you BookReader one step at a time:

elektra by default picks (2) based on the fact that the God of Jesus is Trump’s pick not TJ’s

ELEKTRA160524-#2 “One must thank God, we are Americans”

ELEKTRA140501-#129 “Why does Thomas Jefferson, state, "So much for your quotation of Calvin's `mon dieu! jusqu'a quand' in which, when addressed to the God of Jesus, and our God, I join you cordially, and await his time and will with more readiness than reluctance."

NFBW: Why must I as an American with freedom of conscience and belief in no God thank the likes of Trump’s Jesus God for getting to live in America. Why must I thank Trump’s God, because a vulgar authoritarian angry jerk tells me I should?

I thank the human beings that got ‘er done not Trump’s Jesus and God. The God Trump believes in had nothing to do with the founding the exceptional nation of my birth.
END2210051849

 

[whutTHEYsay]

This is not a religious issue.

Why is all the political pressure coming from religious people like this?

beagle9220730-#4,072 “Yeah and you just conveniently look the other way when your world starts pumping out the tragic stats on people getting diseases, cancer, viruses that have no cures, suicide rates, murder rates, ruined live's, joblessness, depression, hopelessness, mental problem's, soulessness, and so many other things that have already been linked back to the promotion of living a "free for all" type of self unregulated highly sinful lifestyle's that are warned about in a book that is thousands of years old, yet here you are constantly making a fool of yourself by bashing Christian's who have the evidence to back us up. You have the evidence also, but you hide it or conveniently lie about it in order to spread your ideologies or leftism as if it is somehow filled with truth's when they are nothing but deceptions or falsehoods that lay far from the truth. So when does the horror's and misery's finally get to you in your conscious finally ???

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Liberalism, as defined today, or liberalism as it meant in 1800?

1800.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

. It is simple, it is life.

Yes. the mothers life , viable life. And not viable life in the womb.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Viability, was settled 50 years ago?

It was Roe vs Wade

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Medical science was settled 50 years ago?

No. medical science is constantly advancing.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Premise, I find this the most ridiculous, premise, yet. Mostly because we are told we must read the Catholic blah blah blah if we are interested in figuring out what and why and how?

I left people like you an out. No interest. Don’t read it?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Democrats are passing laws stating a nurse or abortionist can not comfort nor feed or do anything that will allow that baby to live

Source?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

So it is not only religious people who oppose abortion.

I am not religious but I personally oppose abortion in my relationships. And that is not what I wrote.

I wrote this:

Why is all the political pressure coming from religious people like this?

beagle9220730-#4,072 promotion of living a "free for all" type of self unregulated highly sinful lifestyle's that are warned about in a book that is thousands of years old, yet here you are constantly making a fool of yourself by bashing Christian's who have the evidence to back us up.

 

[elektra]

NFBW: over your head is it. OK for you BookReader one step at a time:

elektra by default picks (2) based on the fact that the God of Jesus is Trump’s pick not TJ’s

ELEKTRA160524-#2 “One must thank God, we are Americans”

ELEKTRA140501-#129 “Why does Thomas Jefferson, state, "So much for your quotation of Calvin's `mon dieu! jusqu'a quand' in which, when addressed to the God of Jesus, and our God, I join you cordially, and await his time and will with more readiness than reluctance."

NFBW: Why must I as an American with freedom of conscience and belief in no God thank the likes of Trump’s Jesus God for getting to live in America. Why must I thank Trump’s God, because a vulgar authoritarian angry jerk tells me I should?

I thank the human beings that got ‘er done not Trump’s Jesus and God. The God Trump believes in had nothing to do with the founding the exceptional nation of my birth.
END2210051849

Now we finally get somewhere, your skull is very thick.

Who told you, that you must thank, Trump's god?

The founding, Trump has more in common, follows our founding, followed the Constitution than any other president other than Ronald Reagan, since before World War 2.

Where does anybody demand you thank God or Trump, and your idea that Trump worships or has faith in anything except, God, is simply a whole bunch of crap.

Now that you finally stated a bit clear, what your thinking is, I got to say that is one extremely false premise you setup, which you completely fail to substantiate let alone state clearly.

 

[elektra]

I am not religious but I personally oppose abortion in my relationships. And that is not what I wrote.
I wrote this:
Why is all the political pressure coming from religious people like this?

The only political pressure I see is the intimidation and harassment the Democrat rioters, inflicted on the Supreme Court Justices at their homes.

What specific acts do you speak of? Which politicians, and be very specific. You are very good at cut/pasting non-relevant quotes from google searches. Now without a search, specifically tell us what you are talking about, who did what.

And while you are at, throw in your opinion, of the felonies committed against the supreme court justices recently, because of the recent Roe vs. Wade decision. Which gave the power to the states, which did not take away power, it put power in it's proper place, the states.