Must we thank (1) Jefferson’s God, or (2) Trump’s God or (3) no God or (4) or just the founders themselves

[elektra]

Ding220716-#2,279 “DNA says otherwise.”

BackAgain220719-#2,428 “I don’t recall mentioning “completely viable.””

NFBW: I do not recall the US Constitution mentioning unborn. "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. I also do not believe that a zygote can apply for naturalized US citizenship on its own because it would have to pass a test, and take an oath to uphold the Constitution and it has no concept of self and cannot speak. But a zygot is a developing human life dependent on its mother. That much is scientifically true as you say. END2207191134





















































As I understand it and I have no expertise on it, but there are three stages In a pregnancy,

1. This two-week stage is known as the germinal period of development and covers the time of fertilization (also called conception) to the implantation of the blastocyst in the uterus.
2. The embryonic period of development lasts from two weeks after conception through the eighth week, during which time the organism is known as an embryo.
3. At the ninth week post-conception, the fetal period begins. From this point until birth, the organism is known as a fetus.

When a Zygote Becomes an Embryo ​

Zygotes divide through a process known as mitosis, in which each cell doubles (one cell becomes two, two becomes four, and so on). This two-week stage is known as the germinal period of development and covers the time of fertilization (also called conception) to the implantation of the blastocyst in the uterus.​

​

NFBW: so technically elektra at 8 weeks I should have referred to (it) the (organism) as a embryo in my question instead of a zygote - you are absolutely correct oh American Taliban!!!! - must I cut off a finger and mail it to you as for the sin of inferring that an embryo is a lowlife zygote?

END2210070918

No, simply proving you did not know what you are talking about suffices

 

[NotfooledbyW]

elektra by default picks (2) based on the fact that the God of Jesus is Trump’s pick not TJ’s

NFBW: Since you write that we all must thank GOD for creating America, and all Americans since the founding do not share the same vision of God as you do elektra , I you are Thanking the same Vision of God ad Trump does .

That’s all folks. END2210070953

 

[NotfooledbyW]

No, simply proving you did not know what you are talking about suffices

so you don’t have to contend with a point / I know. Change Zygote to Embryo and respond to the point if you dare.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

You seem to be declaring @elektra that we are all biologically human from the moment of conception with no distinction as to what is known to be the human state of being either biologically viable or biologically unviable.

Am I correct about that?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Biologically it is a seperate life.

NFBW: Yes that is true. It is also true and a fact that every living organism taken from the womb prior to 21 weeks is a nonviable organism with no chance of being born alive.

When in pregnancy does a baby have thoughts. Answer that.

I do not know. If you want to know when a fetus has awareness, I can accept this:

But when does the magical journey of consciousness begin? Consciousness requires a sophisticated network of highly interconnected components, nerve cells. Its physical substrate, the thalamo-cortical complex that provides consciousness with its highly elaborate content, begins to be in place between the 24th and 28th week of gestation. Roughly two months later synchrony of the electroencephalographic (EEG) rhythm across both cortical hemispheres signals the onset of global neuronal integration.​

​

When Does Consciousness Arise in Human Babies?

Does sentience appear in the womb, at birth or during early childhood?

www.scientificamerican.com

​

Thus, many of the circuit elements necessary for consciousness are in place by the third trimester.​

​

END2210071159​

 

[elektra]

so you don’t have to contend with a point / I know. Change Zygote to Embryo and respond to the point if you dare.

No problem, but I have asked a few questions, which you have not dared to answer.

Should you answer my questions first?

 

[elektra]

NFBW: Yes that is true. It is also true and a fact that that every living organism taken from the womb prior to 21 weeks is a nonviable organism with no chance of being born alive.

I do not know. If you want to know when a fetus has awareness,

Babies dont have awareness for months, so that argument means it is morally, ethically, acceptable to kill babies.

Viable, if we allow nature to take its course, the fetus/baby is viable.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Should you answer my questions first?

When they may produce meaningful impact on any chain of discussion - I try. However, I have no freaking idea why inhabitants on the continent of Africa did not abolish slavery prior to the American revolution and I see no point in doing some lengthy r esearch to be able to answer that question. On the other hand I asked you the following question which should be fairly simple to answer and it has a direct impact on what we are discussing:

You seem to be declaring @elektra that we are all biologically human from the moment of conception with no distinction as to what is known to be the human state of being either biologically viable or biologically unviable.

Am I correct about that?

 

[Mac-7]

NFBW: Premise: The religious belief’s of the founding fathers are tied to the politics of abortion the past 50 years / you will have to read the CATHOLIC condemnation of Jefferson and his cult of secular religion if you are interested in finding out why - and more.

ELEKTRA220503-#63 “Abortion is murder if there is a heartbeat”

Must we thank (1) Jefferson’s God, or (2) Trump’s God or (3) no God or (4) just the founders themselves for the creation of exceptional America - The greatest nation in history

NFBW: My choice is (4) because they made (1) thru (3) possible which is what makes America exceptional above all other nations in history.

elektra by default picks (2) based on the fact that the God of Jesus is Trump’s pick not TJ’s

ELEKTRA160524-#2 “One must thank God, we are Americans”

ELEKTRA140501-#129 “Why does Thomas Jefferson, state, "So much for your quotation of Calvin's `mon dieu! jusqu'a quand' in which, when addressed to the God of Jesus, and our God, I join you cordially, and await his time and will with more readiness than reluctance."

NFBW: Those who read books about Jefferson’s religion would know that Jefferson was revolted by any man made thought that falsely converted Jesus into a God. The following portrait based on his writing is a great link into the great rational and enlightenment libersl mind of Jefferson

Catholic view / The Relevance of Thomas Jefferson by Donald J. D'Elia Christendom College Press, Fall 1977In the analysis of Thomas Jefferson, which follows, Dr. D 'Elia lays the groundwork for a truly Catholic perception of American history in general, in addition to unveiling an accurate portrait of the man.​

​

Library : The Relevance of Thomas Jefferson​

​

Among the Founding Fathers of the American nation there appears to be none more deserving of the title of "modern man" than the Virginian, Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence and third President of the United States. His tall, god-like figure looms over the American past, his name continues to be celebrated in endless books and after-dinner speeches, and his democratic authority must be invoked by every aspiring statesman and grasping politician. Indeed, Jefferson's attraction for modern man has led to the development of a veritable cult whose shrine on the banks of the Potomac draws worshippers from all over the world.​

​

Often it has happened in history and in life itself that a good but naive man's principles have been mercilessly exposed by time to reveal logical implications, which he would have condemned in his own lifetime. Such was notably the case with Thomas Jefferson who, bereft of the Church's wisdom and maternal protection, fell victim to false principles long ago unmasked by Revelation and true philosophy. These false principles, known collectively as liberalism, were made by Jefferson into a kind of religion, as we shall see; and in using the prestige of the presidency to advance this secular religion, Jefferson unwittingly proved himself to be the first of a long line of abusers of the highest office of the land. For the Jeffersonian mentality, despite all good intentions, leads inexorably to moral nihilism and the abortionist Supreme Court of the 1970'​

END2210050259

You seem to have a phobia against God

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Viable, if we allow nature to take its course, the fetus/baby is viable.

NFBW: Yes it does. If a woman in the privacy of her own womb decides not to let ‘nature’ take its course And has the fetus removed it will die because it is not viable outside of the womb. Is that correct? END2210071214

 

[NotfooledbyW]

You seem to have a phobia against God

Actually I am right with the universal concept of God that comes from all cultures and I worry about nothing in this material life because of universal truth that is not limited to regional truths about God and for God in a book.

The rosebed in my backyard and the grass upon which my dog poops there is as holy as the holiest shrine in Jerusalem and the greatest cathedral in Paris.

I am a bit perhaps a lot, like Washington Adams Madison and Jefferson Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Paine and very much so Ethan Allen of the founding generation when in comes to rational theism as my belief in God.

Thanks to all of them, I might add. Did you get that point? It is not esoteric

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Babies dont have awareness for months, so that argument means it is morally, ethically, acceptable to kill babies.

Do you mean babies that have been born like trumps son Baron?with Melanie? who was being suckled on his mothers bosom while daddy was boinking a porn star? Those born babies? My answer to that has been obvious all along, no it’s not morally ethically or acceptable to kill babies after 24 weeks from fertilization unless it’s to save the life of the mother which would include mental stress of being a rape victim specifically when you’re like an 11 year old girl who was raped by her mothers girlfriend.

 

[elektra]

Do you mean babies that have been born like trumps son Baron?with Melanie? who was being suckled on his mothers bosom while daddy was boinking a porn star? Those born babies? My answer to that has been obvious all along, no it’s not morally ethically or acceptable to kill babies after 24 weeks from fertilization unless it’s to save the life of the mother which would include mental stress of being a rape victim specifically when you’re like an 11 year old girl who was raped by her mothers girlfriend.

You can fuck off using my comments as a spring board fir your bigotry. As if your unsuccessful broke ass can even be comoared to Trump.

You even extend your gate to Trump's children. So very pathetic.

Let ud go back to your stupidity, you thought zygots were actual babies, a fetus.

Here you are stating others are wrong but you have no udea what a zygote is.

Figures, all you Trump haters are the stupidist amongst us.

Zygotes are single celled. Moron!

 

[elektra]

I am a bit perhaps a lot, like Washington Adams Madison and Jefferson Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Paine and very much so Ethan Allen of the founding generation when in comes to rational theism as my belief in God.

you are nothing like Jefferson or Adams, franklin or madison, and even less like washington

Based on your google links you claim to be like our founders. I guess you stupid people, below average achievers, believe everything you google

 

[elektra]

When they may produce meaningful impact on any chain of discussion - I try. However, I have no freaking idea why inhabitants on the continent of Africa did not abolish slavery prior to the American revolution and I see no point in doing some lengthy r esearch to be able to answer that question. On the other hand I asked you the following question which should be fairly simple to answer and it has a direct impact on what we are discussing:


Am I correct about that?

Quote the post. I am done answering your jibberish which resembles nothing I posted.

Are you that stupid thinking you can make stuff up and I will respond as if what you claim is my comment.

You are fool as well as a bigot

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Based on your google links you claim to be like our founders.

No, based on what they wrote in all cases.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

You can fuck off

I see I have reached the pinnacle of your intellectual, moral, and decency capabilities

 

[NotfooledbyW]

As if your unsuccessful broke ass

Not rich, just retired - 3 income properties and home all paid for, younger and beautiful Wife is highly paid civilian professional high up in the Pentagon deep state she will retire in 8 years get her pension and we will travel the world and enjoy life in America if MAGA Republicans don’t start a civil race war Renters will pay enough to live the good until then. Hope not.

But it must suck to be you posting as if you know the financial status of anonymous posters on a message board.

Why you don’t stick to the variety of subjects I have presented to you.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

you are nothing like Jefferson or Adams, franklin or madison, and even less like washington

I wrote that I am like the rational theists of the founding generation led by those men when it comes to their rational theism as is my belief in God and rejection of the mythology of the divinity of Jesus Christ

 

[elektra]

NFBW: Premise: The religious belief’s of the founding fathers are tied to the politics of abortion the past 50 years / you will have to read the CATHOLIC condemnation of Jefferson and his cult of secular religion if you are interested in finding out why -

Your premise is false, unless you can prove or offer an explanation.

You set up a premise and state that the facts of said premise is found elsewhere, and that we must research and find the answer to your premise and thus, op?

I contend you are an idiot for thinking we will simply believe or do the work you should of included in this OP.

Jefferson, taking a sentence, a paragraph, from a google search is an extremely lazy way to prove any point you are making of jefferson.

Most people with an education will concur thst without a copy of jefferson's letters, which are published in 14 volumes, without readung Jefferson's letters, you can not make statements of Jefferson's beliefs.

A very sloppy beginning to what has proved to be a false premise.

The dumbass bigot that started this thread hates trump and has used this thread to make outragous bigoted comments.

A real mental midget.