Must we thank (1) Jefferson’s God, or (2) Trump’s God or (3) no God or (4) or just the founders themselves

[NotfooledbyW]

The only political pressure I see

IF you can’t see the beagle9 post I copied for I can’t help you.

 

[elektra]

IF you can’t see the beagle9 post I copied for I can’t help you.

I am suppose to read all the crap you post, even stuff to other users.

Dont bullshit me, you dont have an answer.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

it put power in it's proper place, the states.

NFBW: The America I love gives power to law abiding women who want to make Reproductive health and family planning decisions themselves. They do not want the hoards of white Christian extremist Trump voters voting to have their health decisions made in state legislatures by mostly white male Christian extremist Trump Lawmakers. END2210052050

 

[elektra]

IF you can’t see the beagle9 post I copied for I can’t help you.

Again you hacked what i stated while you quoted me.

The beagle post is not an answer to my question or a question similiar to mine.

That comment of yours is an answer to why.

I did not ask why, i asked for you to give an example. I see why you hacked my comment and deflected to another post.

You have no factual event tjat backs up the claim you made.

Again you fail

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Why Fuck me. I steadfastly maintain the Truth that the first six out of seven Prresidents were not Christians in a way as much we know the Trump Christian’s to be.

The diatribe from a Catholic theologian’s point of view is the most powerful explanation ever written as to why TJ is not a Christian that I have ever found and I love it.

A sample from the diatribe:

Jefferson came to worship his "trinity of genius": Francis Bacon, Sir Isaac Newton, and John Locke.5​

​

None of these Enlightenment thinkers, whom Jefferson saw as personifying his naive faith in empirical science, could offer him a deeper view of man as spiritual person. They were modern, Protestant writers whose understanding of the philosophy and civilization of the Middle Ages was tenuous at best. So far was John Locke from the medieval Catholic appreciation of man as made in the image of God, as a spiritual person with all the implications for private and social life, that his empiricism led him in his political and ethical theory to reduce man to a kind of atom in mere combination with others (social compact theory)—led him, accordingly, to neglect a serious analysis of the concept of the common good, and to suggest a crude hedonistic utilitarianism.6 All of these typically Enlightenment errors and superficialities were repeated by Jefferson and Locke's other American students, undermining the very edifice of the new nation that they were to build. However, the Englishman's positive contribution of a natural rights doctrine in his Second Treatise of Government perhaps compensated for these grave weaknesses of thought at least in the short​

​

END2210051423​

not reading all that shit

 

[lennypartiv]

I guess the OP doesn't understand the Founding Fathers created America as a Christian nation.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

not reading all that shit

Then don’t reply to it.

 

[lennypartiv]

Votto doesn't understand Manifest Destiny.

 

[elektra]

hoards of white Christian extremist Trump voters voting to have their health decisions made in state legislatures by mostly white male Christian extremist

And there is your stereotyping and bigotry. You are an ugly racist, even if you are white. I find you apalling and pathetic, for that comment is pure bigotry.

Bigots never self reflect and see what they are.

Trump is not president, abortion is not an issue he influences or decides.

Trump did not pick the majority of supreme court justices, so again you fail intellectually.

A lot of people voted for Trump, all colors and races, your bigotry does not allow you to admit that in your comment. I am sure you will protest otherwise seeings how I have successfuly pointed it out.

Health decisions, now the bigot uses words to obscure what he/she (lbgtqrst, let me know what biological being you identify as) is talking about

You are talking about abortion, killing a baby, the deed is so horrid you can not even use the words that describe exactly what you want so badly.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I guess the OP doesn't understand the Founding Fathers created America as a Christian nation.

If the founding fathers originally created a Christian Nation why are you on Mashmont ‘s thread agreeing that America has to be changed now because the founders failed to create a Christian nation in the first place which left a void that atheists filled.

Mashmont220129-#231 “When you remove religion from government, the cancer of atheism fills the void as is happening in the US. That's what the Framers failed to anticipate

Mashmont #664 “First Amendment needs tweaked on the religion part. The framers unwittingly enabled atheism to be the governing religion.”

Trump is not president, abortion is not an issue he influences or decides.

Trump put three Catholic influenced anti/Roe Judges on the Supreme Court all were groomed by the Federalist Society and that is how they were able to decide Dobbs. He promised the white Trump Christians he would do it

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Trump did not pick the majority of supreme court justices, so again you fail intellectually.

Take it up with Trump. BookReader.

As a candidate for president, Donald Trump promised pro-life voters Roe v. Wade would be overturned if he was elected, during an October 19 debate in 2016 against former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton​

​

Donald Trump 2016: Roe v. Wade Will Be Overturned 'Automatically' if Elected

As a candidate for president, Donald Trump promised pro-life voters that Roe v. Wade would be overturned if he was elected.

www.breitbart.com

​

When asked by debate moderator Chris Wallace if he wanted to see Roe v. Wade overturned, Trump said it would happen automatically if he was elected president.​

​

“Well, if we put another two or perhaps three justices on, that’s really what’s going to be—that will happen,” Trump said. “And that’ll happen automatically, in my opinion, because I am putting pro-life justices on the court.”​

 

[NotfooledbyW]

A lot of people voted for Trump, all colors and races,

Sure they do but in such small numbers they would be lost in the wilderness of political importance without the huge numbers of the white Christian extremist Trump voter base.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

This is not a religious issue. It is simple, it is life. That is the issue.

if it is a life issue this cannot be happening.

NFBW220818-#4,913

Viability - CarsomyrPlusSix220818-#4,912 “it’s just oh so fucking irrelevant,”

NFBW: that’s odd because 31 states ban abortion at viability or within the timeframe that viability occurs.

• 9 states ban abortion.
• 4 states ban abortion at 6 weeks LMP.
• 1 state bans abortion at 15 weeks LMP.
• 9 states ban abortion at 22 weeks LMP (20 weeks postfertilization in state law) on the unscientific grounds that a fetus can feel pain at that point.
• 4 states ban abortion at 24 weeks LMP.
• 17 states impose a ban at viability.
• 1 state imposes a ban in the third trimester (beginning at 25 weeks LMP)
• State Bans on Abortion Throughout Pregnancy

END2208180149

NFBW: Dobbs made it a medical procedure ban which died not prevent men with means like Herschel Walker to send his knocked up girl friend to go to a state that respects a woman’s right to choose.

END2210052237

 

[whitehall]

The religious beliefs of the Founding Fathers are tied to the creation of the Bill of Rights aka the 1st ten Amendments to the Constitution. It worked out pretty well for almost 200 years until FDR appointed a KKK member to the Supreme Court and he started the dismantling of the Constitution with the faked "Separation of Church and State" that had no basis in Constitutional law. Years later a left wing Court found a "right to privacy" that did not appear in the Constitution to justify the killing of millions of unborn children. It seems that we might be taking back the Constitution from the radicals today and lefties hate it.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

elektra221005-#3 “Abortion, something the founders never fathomed.. Abortion not a right.”

NFBW221005-#11 “OK BookReader, what book backs up your statement of fact that Jefferson or any of the Founding fathers never fathomed abortion.

elektra221005-#21 “When quoting me, you left out the part where I stated I was speaking of rights in our constitution?

NFBW: Where did you inform the reader that you were speaking of abortion rights in our constitution being something the founders never fathomed?

It makes no sense BookResder. I think “fathomed” Is the wrong word. Are you trying to say the founders never “addressed” abortion rights in the Constitution? If so what is that point supposed to mean.

Definition of fatham: To fathom something is to understand it thoroughly.

Does this make any sense: Abortion, something the founders never thoroughly understood. Abortion not a right.” Be honest,

END2210060042

 

[NotfooledbyW]

All the founder's beliefs are in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.

Jefferson Madison and Washington and Baptist Churches in Virginia and Massachusetts founded freedom of conscience and embedded it in the Bill if Rights. The Baptists sent a letter to George Washington. It read:

“When the Constitution first made its appearance in Virginia, we, as a society, feared that the liberty of conscience, dearer to us than property or life, was not sufficiently secured. Perhaps our jealousies were heightened by the usage we received in Virginia, under the regal government, when mobs, fines, bonds and prisons were our frequent repast….”

<strong>Baptists and the Constitution</strong>

President Washington sent a gracious reply saying: “I have often expressed my sentiments that any man, conducting himself as a good citizen and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshiping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience.” He then promised his “endeavors to advance their prosperity.”

BaptIsts are credited with getting “freedom of conscience”’in the Bill of Rights with no help from any other Teligious denomination,

Many Anti/abortion Protestant Trump Christians belong to churches that endorsed the passage of Roe v Wade. Including Baptists.

Southern Baptists were strong Trump supporters until a split took place in 2021 over extreme right wing race issues.

Why the Southern Baptist Convention finally rejected Trumpism​

Donald Trump in front of St. John's Episcopal Church in Washington, D.C. on June 1, 2020, Wikimedia Commons
Alex Henderson
June 19, 2021

the Southern Baptist Convention, recalled that their 1971 convention had backed laws permitting abortion in cases such as “rape, incest, clear evidence of severe fetal deformity, and carefully ascertained evidence of the likelihood of damage to the emotional, mental, and physical health of the mother.” So the Southern Baptists essentially endorsed abortion on demand. A Baptist Press report two years later after Roe enthused that the court decision had “advanced the cause of religious liberty, human equality and justice.”​

​

Protestants and Abortion - The American Spectator | USA News and PoliticsThe American Spectator | USA News and Politics

Last week about 100,000 or more marched in the annual March for Life in Washington, D.C. This year they commemorated 40 years since the 1973 Supreme Court decision constitutionalizing abortion on demand. Supporting the march and the pro-life cause were...

spectator.org

​

The head of the Southern Baptist public policy agency in the 1970s, then called the Christian Life Commission, backed government-funded abortions and supported, along with United Methodists and other Protestant denominational agencies, the Religious Coalition for Abortion Rights.​

​

NFBW; FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE became a right that was based on No founding fathers religious belief or Christianity - it came from rational minds prevailing over irrational minds of religion.

END2210060249

 

[22lcidw]

This is not about abortion as much as it is about morals. Sexual morals. While this is going on a push for pedo legalization will occur and poly marital individuals also is gaining traction. Its where we draw the line. abortion is the legalization that has helped to enable all of other moral questions. Hetero marriages have had their issues with open relationships and cheating. It ended there for that but is an excuse for other ways to do what they want. People can fail. And making it easier as we have makes failing a roller coaster ride.

 

[sparky]

Jefferson was not Christian. He was a deist.

 

[elektra]

If the founding fathers originally created a Christian Nation why are you on Mashmont ‘s thread agreeing that America has to be changed now because the founders failed to create a Christian nation in the first place which left a void that atheists filled.

Mashmont220129-#231 “When you remove religion from government, the cancer of atheism fills the void as is happening in the US. That's what the Framers failed to anticipate

Mashmont #664 “First Amendment needs tweaked on the religion part. The framers unwittingly enabled atheism to be the governing religion.”



Trump put three Catholic influenced anti/Roe Judges on the Supreme Court all were groomed by the Federalist Society and that is how they were able to decide Dobbs. He promised the white Trump Christians he would do it

Again, not trump's court, he did not pick the majority, not even half the justices.

Catholic influenced in your dreams.

Dobbs sent power to the states, we dont need the federal government micro managaging

 

[elektra]

Take it up with Trump. BookReader.

As a candidate for president, Donald Trump promised pro-life voters Roe v. Wade would be overturned if he was elected, during an October 19 debate in 2016 against former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton​

​

Donald Trump 2016: Roe v. Wade Will Be Overturned 'Automatically' if Elected

As a candidate for president, Donald Trump promised pro-life voters that Roe v. Wade would be overturned if he was elected.

www.breitbart.com

​

When asked by debate moderator Chris Wallace if he wanted to see Roe v. Wade overturned, Trump said it would happen automatically if he was elected president.​

​

“Well, if we put another two or perhaps three justices on, that’s really what’s going to be—that will happen,” Trump said. “And that’ll happen automatically, in my opinion, because I am putting pro-life justices on the court.”​

Hardly an issue at all during the election. I did not see the wallace debate. Many did not, so more flimsy bullshit