What's new
US Message Board 🦅 Political Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Matthew 6:5-8

catzmeow

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
24,064
Reaction score
2,983
Points
153
Location
Gunshine State
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

How does this apply to the insistence of religious conservatives on public prayer in secular settings?
 

Marie888

† † †
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Messages
954
Reaction score
229
Points
78
Location
Temporarily on earth †
I think exactly like you're thinking it does :) Though God knows the intent of our hearts, and His Grace if sufficient, thank Him so much.

Christians are prone to vanity and sin too of course - all the more we need our Saviour. When we read the accounts of so many people the Lord used to Glorify them, we see they all were huge sinners, just like we all are. Moses killed someone, Paul in the New Testament used to persecute Christians also. David, a man after Gods own heart, committed adultery. That doesn't make sin ok, we reap what we sow, but that's the whole reason Jesus Christ came - for the sins of the world.

Conviction comes when someone truly believes God's Word is true, and so when verses like you posted hopefully will guide us, convict us, lead the Christian out of those things we do wrong for "self glory". Sometimes it takes longer for each one than another.

I can't tell you how many times a day I sin. Even in my thought process. The more I learn from His Word, the more I know I need help and guidance away from any "self righteousness", away from any "pride", away from so many things, but instead to love.

His Word is likened to a double edged Sword and also the "Sword of the Spirit". Truly amazing, and also helps us instead of hurting us. Even though our "flesh" will sometimes kick against Him.



Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:12 is an amazing verse.


Ephesians 6
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:


.
 
Last edited:
OP
catzmeow

catzmeow

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
24,064
Reaction score
2,983
Points
153
Location
Gunshine State
I think exactly like you're thinking it does :) Though God knows the intent of our hearts, and His Grace if sufficient, thank Him so much.

Christians are prone to vanity and sin too of course - all the more we need our Saviour. When we read the accounts of so many people the Lord used to Glorify them, we see they all were huge sinners, just like we all are. Moses killed someone, Paul in the New Testament used to persecute Christians also. David, a man after Gods own heart, committed adultery. That doesn't make sin ok, we reap what we sow, but that's the whole reason Jesus Christ came - for the sins of the world.

Conviction comes when someone truly believes God's Word is true, and so when verses like you posted hopefully will guide us, convict us, lead the Christian out of those things we do wrong for "self glory". Sometimes it takes longer for each one than another.

I can't tell you how many times a day I sin. Even in my thought process. The more I learn from His Word, the more I know I need help and guidance away from any "self righteousness", away from any "pride", away from so many things, but instead to love.

His Word is likened to a double edged Sword and also the "Sword of the Spirit". Truly amazing, and also helps us instead of hurting us. Even though our "flesh" will sometimes kick against Him.



Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:12 is an amazing verse.


Ephesians 6
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

I think I'd have highlighted this verse:

15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

Forcing other people to endure public demonstrations of religiosity isn't the act of a peacemaker. Enjoyed your post, Marie.
 

Two Thumbs

Platinum Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
38,220
Reaction score
6,510
Points
1,140
Location
Where ever I go, there I am.
I prayed over every single last grammer test I ever took.
God answered my prayers by having English class be 1/2 grammer and 1/2 reading.

humor aside

I think this is more of a freedom of speech issue. You can't stop a kid from praying unless he's disrupting class.
 

strollingbones

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
89,468
Reaction score
23,644
Points
2,190
Location
chicken farm
no one can stop anyone from prayer...prayer is between you and your deity....it does not need to be a public thing....no one can stop anyone else from praying..
 
OP
catzmeow

catzmeow

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
24,064
Reaction score
2,983
Points
153
Location
Gunshine State
I think this is more of a freedom of speech issue. You can't stop a kid from praying unless he's disrupting class.

Do you think that public prayers at large events (like offering a prayer at the start of a NASCAR race) is biblical?
 

PLYMCO_PILGRIM

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
17,416
Reaction score
3,063
Points
183
Location
America's Home Town
no one can stop anyone from prayer...prayer is between you and your deity....it does not need to be a public thing....no one can stop anyone else from praying..

This is the proper answer in my opinion.

It is true to the spirit of the first ammendment.
 

PLYMCO_PILGRIM

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
17,416
Reaction score
3,063
Points
183
Location
America's Home Town
I think this is more of a freedom of speech issue. You can't stop a kid from praying unless he's disrupting class.

Do you think that public prayers at large events (like offering a prayer at the start of a NASCAR race) is biblical?

Biblical? No.

Its just people of different faiths praying together to their god(s).
 

RetiredGySgt

Diamond Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
50,083
Reaction score
12,011
Points
2,190
Location
North Carolina
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

How does this apply to the insistence of religious conservatives on public prayer in secular settings?

God also commands that Christians gather together. And when they do the meeting is normally started and ended by a prayer.
 

Two Thumbs

Platinum Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
38,220
Reaction score
6,510
Points
1,140
Location
Where ever I go, there I am.
I think this is more of a freedom of speech issue. You can't stop a kid from praying unless he's disrupting class.

Do you think that public prayers at large events (like offering a prayer at the start of a NASCAR race) is biblical?

Off hand, I'd say group prayer is far different than individual prayer.


religions have lots, and by lots I mean LOTS of rituals. Either remnants of the religion before it or adoptions of from religions that got replaced.

Easter; easter bunny and eggs
The Cross
rosaries
kneeling
clasping your hands to pray
praying 5 times a day
fasting
trees
etc etc etc..

Off hand, I don't think a divine super being would give a damn about human semantics.

But I got a solid C in English class. :eusa_pray:
 

strollingbones

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
89,468
Reaction score
23,644
Points
2,190
Location
chicken farm
that is fine at 'christian' gatherings...but not at public functions
 

RetiredGySgt

Diamond Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
50,083
Reaction score
12,011
Points
2,190
Location
North Carolina
that is fine at 'christian' gatherings...but not at public functions

A public function that is 80 percent Christians IS a Christian gathering. In my opinion.

And nothing in the Constitution prevents public prayer at PUBLIC meetings.
 

Immanuel

Gold Member
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
16,824
Reaction score
2,265
Points
183
Excellent question Catz.

I'm not one for public prayer. I even feel uncomfortable when I am in a Bible Study and am asked to pray.

What I see when someone prays publicly is someone who is trying to prove to everyone else how godly he/she is. Not even trying to convert others, but like the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, Luke 18:9-14, I feel like I am listening to someone who is bragging about their faith.

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

Prayer is personal to me and I am lousy at it. Even though I have suffered with several worries over the last two years, I don't know what to pray any longer.

Public prayer such as at the start of a NASCAR race as you used for an example doesn't really bother me nor does a prayer of invocation say at a graduation, but neither does it do anything for me.

Immie
 

strollingbones

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
89,468
Reaction score
23,644
Points
2,190
Location
chicken farm
that is fine at 'christian' gatherings...but not at public functions

A public function that is 80 percent Christians IS a Christian gathering. In my opinion.

And nothing in the Constitution prevents public prayer at PUBLIC meetings.

no, it is not a christian gathering it is a public gathering
 
OP
catzmeow

catzmeow

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
24,064
Reaction score
2,983
Points
153
Location
Gunshine State
A public function that is 80 percent Christians IS a Christian gathering. In my opinion.

And nothing in the Constitution prevents public prayer at PUBLIC meetings.

I'm not asking a constitutional question. I'm asking a religious one. How do you justify public prayers in light of Christ's rather explicit directions on prayer?
 

RetiredGySgt

Diamond Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
50,083
Reaction score
12,011
Points
2,190
Location
North Carolina
Biblical? No.

Its just people of different faiths praying together to their god(s).

Why would you wish to engage in a behavior that directly contradicts your savior's directions on how to pray?

You are taking it out of context. AT a gathering one opens with a prayer and ends with a prayer. This too is in the bible.
 
OP
catzmeow

catzmeow

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
24,064
Reaction score
2,983
Points
153
Location
Gunshine State
Excellent question Catz.

I'm not one for public prayer. I even feel uncomfortable when I am in a Bible Study and am asked to pray.

What I see when someone prays publicly is someone who is trying to prove to everyone else how godly he/she is. Not even trying to convert others, but like the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, Luke 18:9-14, I feel like I am listening to someone who is bragging about their faith.

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

Prayer is personal to me and I am lousy at it. Even though I have suffered with several worries over the last two years, I don't know what to pray any longer.

Public prayer such as at the start of a NASCAR race as you used for an example doesn't really bother me nor does a prayer of invocation say at a graduation, but neither does it do anything for me.

Immie

I think that there is justification for prayer within a small group of believers. I mean, Christ broke bread during the Last Supper and blessed it. It could be argued that his prayer in John 17 was conducted WITH a small number of disciples.

Public prayer doesn't bother me, either, but it isn't biblical, and it could actually be argued to be anti-biblical. Given that, I wonder why some Christians insist on doing it. I suspect it is for the reason you gave (they want to be publicly recognized for their piety).
 
OP
catzmeow

catzmeow

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
24,064
Reaction score
2,983
Points
153
Location
Gunshine State
AT a gathering one opens with a prayer and ends with a prayer. This too is in the bible.

How am I taking Christ's words out of context, in your opinion?

Here is the full context:

1 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Please provide relevant scripture referred to above in your post (bolded).
 
Last edited:

USMB Server Goals

Total amount
$142.00
Goal
$350.00

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top