Matthew 6:5-8

[Sky Dancer]

Biblical? No.

Its just people of different faiths praying together to their god(s).

Why would you wish to engage in a behavior that directly contradicts your savior's directions on how to pray?

I think the verse is outlining the reasons behind praying boastfully in public, to bring attention to yourself or for boastful resons is wrong. Marie explained it quite well I thought. I don't think it has to do with being public about your prayer, but rather why you're being public with your prayer. Bowing your head in public in prayer hardly fits the description shown in the scripture. My family, whenever we are at a public restaurant, always bow our heads in a quiet prayer before we eat. We aren't bothering anyone or forcing anyone else to particpate. I see nothing wrong with it, it's about giving thanks.

It's possible to say a silent prayer without making a scene out of all bowing your heads.

 

[catzmeow]

I like this quote from Immie:

What I see when someone prays publicly is someone who is trying to prove to everyone else how godly he/she is. Not even trying to convert others, but like the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, Luke 18:9-14, I feel like I am listening to someone who is bragging about their faith.

What I think that he's saying is that a lot of the people who insist on public prayers in a secular gathering are thinking about themselves, and not about God.

 

[catzmeow]

It's possible to say a silent prayer without making a scene out of all bowing your heads.

I see nothing wrong with a family in a restaurant bowing their heads at their table and praying a prayer of thanks. What would you possibly find wrong with this scenario? It isn't as if they are standing up on the table and demanding that everyone else listen and participate.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Good story. I'm glad you're learning to be less aggressive and pushy. Bravo.

If only you'd learn to be less passive aggressive. If only.

There is nothing passive about my aggression.

 

[strollingbones]

seems you show little tolerance for others....i do not want to hear your prayers say them to yourself....i do not force my prayers on others why should yours be forced on me

do not confuse freedom of speech with the ability to force your dogma on others

I've never said any prayers around you, so I think you're having delusions, dear.

i see the conversation is hardly serious to you as you engage in what? why are you saying i am having delusions? i have shown you no disrespect why do you feel the ned to do so?

 

[Newby]

Are you judging me and how I follow my religion now, Catz?? Seriously?

As I've explained, you don't interpret my religion accurately or in context, so why do you feel the need to question whether or not I'm following 'my religion' correctly. I haven't preached to you, shoved 'my religion' down your throat, or anything even remotely close to that on this board. Yet here you are badgering me about it. Tell me who is the intolerant one here and who is shoving their beliefs down someone's throat? Cause it sure as hell isn't me.

Feel free to explain to me how I've misinterpreted this passage. I accepted Jesus when I was 6. I grew up in Christianity, I attended a Christian college, and I taught youth and adult Sunday School classes for 15 years. I am no longer a Christian, but that doesn't mean that I haven't spent years studying and teaching from the Bible.

I just find your posts more and more curious. It's interesting to me that Christianity is supposed to be about Jesus and his teachings (see OP), but Christians often ignore those teachings when they conflict with what you want to do/see/experience.

This thread is about whether public prayers are in line with Christ's teachings. And, ironically, that appears to be the one subject you don't want to talk about.

Well, my opinion is that public prayer is in line with Christ's teachings. So, my view of it is different than yours. Public prayer can take many forms. You're the one being judgmental and bashing how I choose to practice my religion, not me. But, then again, you don't know what I do or don't do at public gatherings, so you're also making accusations that you can have no clue as to whether or not they're even accurate. The irony is amazing really.

 

[Newby]

Why would you wish to engage in a behavior that directly contradicts your savior's directions on how to pray?

I think the verse is outlining the reasons behind praying boastfully in public, to bring attention to yourself or for boastful resons is wrong. Marie explained it quite well I thought. I don't think it has to do with being public about your prayer, but rather why you're being public with your prayer. Bowing your head in public in prayer hardly fits the description shown in the scripture. My family, whenever we are at a public restaurant, always bow our heads in a quiet prayer before we eat. We aren't bothering anyone or forcing anyone else to particpate. I see nothing wrong with it, it's about giving thanks.

It's possible to say a silent prayer without making a scene out of all bowing your heads.

So, because you don't want to hear it or see it, you get to dictate to someone how they should choose to live their lives? Are you offended when you see homeless people on the corner too? So, they should go hide under a rock somewhere so you don't have to look at them or hear them?

 

[Newby]

It's possible to say a silent prayer without making a scene out of all bowing your heads.

I see nothing wrong with a family in a restaurant bowing their heads at their table and praying a prayer of thanks. What would you possibly find wrong with this scenario? It isn't as if they are standing up on the table and demanding that everyone else listen and participate.

She's a freakin' Nazi and if she had her way everyone would be silenced of anything that she didn't agree with or that made her 'uncomfortable'. I've never seen anyone so anti-freedom really.

 

[Newby]

seems you show little tolerance for others....i do not want to hear your prayers say them to yourself....i do not force my prayers on others why should yours be forced on me

do not confuse freedom of speech with the ability to force your dogma on others

I've never said any prayers around you, so I think you're having delusions, dear.

i see the conversation is hardly serious to you as you engage in what? why are you saying i am having delusions? i have shown you no disrespect why do you feel the ned to do so?

So, accusing me of 'forcing my DOGMA on others' is you showing respect? Sorry, but that's not what I see as respect.

 

[JMadison]

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

How does this apply to the insistence of religious conservatives on public prayer in secular settings?

I suppose it depends on why you are praying, whether to be seen praying or whether to be heard by God. But yes, I believe in private prayer, and I don't think what conservatives are fighting for is public prayer, but the right to pray wherever they choose.

 

[Caroljo]

Praying at an event, meeting, whatever has gone on for years and years...i don't know when it started, but it's become almost natural to do. Until recent years i've never heard any objections to it. Most people that aren't religious just sit quietly until it's over then go about their business. I don't believe in shoving my Christian beliefs down anyone's throat. Nobody forces anybody to pray along with them. What i'd like to know is, why should Christians NOT pray at an event just because there's some people there that don't believe?? Where does the line get drawn? Why should i not pray because someone else doesn't want to? Like i said, maybe the best thing to do is ask everyone to sit in silence, or meditation, for a minute...then those that want to pray in silence can, and the others can sit there an think about whatever they want. Of course some people will complain about that too just because they know some of us are actually praying!!!

This is not the thread you are looking for. This thread is about whether public prayers are scriptural. In other words, it isn't about YOUR opinions about public prayers, but about Christ's opinions about public prayers. Do you have any insights into the actual topic?

Ok...i understand what you're saying! God tells us that we're not to be like the hypocrites and stand on street corners praying aloud to bring attention to ourselves. So, this means i will not stand on the corner of State and Broadway yelling prayers and telling people they are going to hell! But i don't believe a simple prayer at a meeting or event is what He's talking about.

 

[emilynghiem]

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

How does this apply to the insistence of religious conservatives on public prayer in secular settings?

DIFFERENT type of prayer.

The type of prayer that is invoked before meetings is more like
praying in agreement in Christ Jesus for wisdom and guidance to
make the right decisions.

It is to connect the participants in heart and mind and spirit to be on the same
page, in one accord where decisions are made wisely in keeping with
the common good.

It is closer to Matthew 18:15-20 about 2 or 3 gathered in Jesus
name so whatever they shall ask it is done according to God's will.

This is NOT for show, it is NOT to convert anyone.
It is for the people there to connect with God through Christ Jesus
in making decisions that are going to affect other people.

This is the type of prayer that people have argued needs to be
allowed back in schools to keep teachers and students on the
same page in respectful focus in agreement.

 

[Sky Dancer]

It's possible to say a silent prayer without making a scene out of all bowing your heads.

I see nothing wrong with a family in a restaurant bowing their heads at their table and praying a prayer of thanks. What would you possibly find wrong with this scenario? It isn't as if they are standing up on the table and demanding that everyone else listen and participate.

She's a freakin' Nazi and if she had her way everyone would be silenced of anything that she didn't agree with or that made her 'uncomfortable'. I've never seen anyone so anti-freedom really.

That's not true, Newby. I merely said that bowing the head before prayer in a public place is making of show of praying.

I pray before meals too. I do it as inobtrusively as possible.

We are discussing the topic of praying in public.

 

[Newby]

I see nothing wrong with a family in a restaurant bowing their heads at their table and praying a prayer of thanks. What would you possibly find wrong with this scenario? It isn't as if they are standing up on the table and demanding that everyone else listen and participate.

She's a freakin' Nazi and if she had her way everyone would be silenced of anything that she didn't agree with or that made her 'uncomfortable'. I've never seen anyone so anti-freedom really.

That's not true, Newby. I merely said that bowing the head before prayer in a public place is making of show of praying.

I pray before meals too. I do it as inobtrusively as possible.

We are discussing the topic of praying in public.

So, you feel you have the right to dictate to others how they should conduct their prayer in a public setting? Why is your way the right way and everyone should do it your way? What an ego.

 

[emilynghiem]

So, because you don't want to hear it or see it, you get to dictate to someone how they should choose to live their lives? Are you offended when you see homeless people on the corner too? So, they should go hide under a rock somewhere so you don't have to look at them or hear them?

Actually the City of Houston did pass ordinances restricting if not banning solicitations
for this reason.

Reasons cited including safety at traffic intersections and also hurting businesses downtown that are struggling already.

It just seems odd to me that
ONE atheist can sue to remove a cross that is considered imposing or offensive
but people cannot sue to get out of health care mandates that
are imposing conflicting beliefs.

One group contests marriage laws as imposing by excluding gay couples
while another group contests marriage laws that would otherwise include them!

Aren't both sides equally "offending" the other?
Why should the law go with one side or the other and impose an offense either way?

Wouldn't the state have to back out of marriages altogether
and let people decide for themselves in private with the church or ceremony of their
choice?

So curious to me how the political process flips
this way or that on issues like abortion, gay marriage, the death penalty,
immigration because both sides have religious issues that offend the others.
And our Constitution is supposed to provide for EQUAL representation
and protection of interests without discrimination.

So how is that possible? Unless we have a consensus on writing a law before passing it,
or no laws made on an issue that requires separate policies due to religious differences!

 

[Sky Dancer]

She's a freakin' Nazi and if she had her way everyone would be silenced of anything that she didn't agree with or that made her 'uncomfortable'. I've never seen anyone so anti-freedom really.

That's not true, Newby. I merely said that bowing the head before prayer in a public place is making of show of praying.

I pray before meals too. I do it as inobtrusively as possible.

We are discussing the topic of praying in public.

So, you feel you have the right to dictate to others how they should conduct their prayer in a public setting? Why is your way the right way and everyone should do it your way? What an ego.

Of course not. I have no right to dictate anything. I stated that I think bowing heads is still a public show of praying.

I don't do any public show of praying, yet I still pray.

It's my opinion, that bowing is a public display of praying. I'm entitled to my opinion, the same
as you are entitled to your.

I'm not bothered by people who bow their heads to pray in public before meals. I point out that it is still a public display.

 

[catzmeow]

Well, my opinion is that public prayer is in line with Christ's teachings.

What scripture references would you use to support this position?

 

[catzmeow]

I suppose it depends on why you are praying, whether to be seen praying or whether to be heard by God. But yes, I believe in private prayer, and I don't think what conservatives are fighting for is public prayer, but the right to pray wherever they choose.

I suspect that Christians can already pray wherever they choose. They just can't turn a public secular event, like a graduation, into a prayer rally. My parents prayed at my graduation. It was a private prayer between our family, and it meant a lot to me.

 

[Big Fitz]

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

How does this apply to the insistence of religious conservatives on public prayer in secular settings?

This is in regards to the pharisees who were big on public shows of 'holiness' but yet hypocritically did not practice what they preached. Context matters when studying the Bible.

Christ prayed in private and publicly. God knows your heart, and when you pray seeking the praise of men, you have been given your reward.

 

[Newby]

I suppose it depends on why you are praying, whether to be seen praying or whether to be heard by God. But yes, I believe in private prayer, and I don't think what conservatives are fighting for is public prayer, but the right to pray wherever they choose.

I suspect that Christians can already pray wherever they choose. They just can't turn a public secular event, like a graduation, into a prayer rally. My parents prayed at my graduation. It was a private prayer between our family, and it meant a lot to me.

Where have you seen this happen? Cause I sure haven't, it's been so vilified by the small minority that insist on vehemently having their way, that there is no such thing anymore. And isn't 'prayer rally' being a bit extreme? An over exaggeration? One prayer at the opening of an event is hardly a prayer rally. But, like I said, you don't even see that anymore.