Zone1 Jesus' CONCEPTION (not birth) during Hanukkah / Christmas

[Carl in Michigan]

If you place your idol/ Jesus in places he does not belong in the jewish scriptures or anywhere else as you were told to in the new testament then keeping an even playing field we can do the same thing are you sure you want to keep up that charade it might get nasty for you as well as embarrassing …

There's a "connection" between EVERY HOLY DAY you're COMMANDED to observe and Jesus' part in God's plan for Mankind. Yet the Jews missed it!

It begins with Passover. The sacrifice of lambs doesn't pay the price for your sins. But Christ DID -- and you mock it!

 

[rosends]

There's a "connection" between EVERY HOLY DAY you're COMMANDED to observe and Jesus' part in God's plan for Mankind. Yet the Jews missed it!

It begins with Passover. The sacrifice of lambs doesn't pay the price for your sins. But Christ DID -- and you mock it!

the paschal sacrifice has nothing to do with sins.

 

[Meriweather]

the paschal sacrifice has nothing to do with sins.

What has been the greatest purpose of blood, or blood sacrifice?

 

[BreezeWood]

It's not a charade, the things I've stated on this thread are my sincere beliefs based on looking deeper into the topic of when Jesus was conceived and born.

Every year, on Christmas and Easter, the haters make themselves known.

yes they do ...

the two sweeties of christianity their taking of the holiday's for themselves nothing judean about them.

- and the conifers cut down for their personal display beneath which rests their true spirits such is their belief the same as for jesus and blessings from the heavens.

 

[rosends]

What has been the greatest purpose of blood, or blood sacrifice?

I'm not sure what the question is asking. Animal sacrifice had many functions.

 

[hadit]

He was born on December 25th.

Almost certainly not. Shepherds would not have been living out in the fields with the sheep in December.

 

[shimon]

There's a "connection" between EVERY HOLY DAY you're COMMANDED to observe and Jesus' part in God's plan for Mankind. Yet the Jews missed it!

It begins with Passover. The sacrifice of lambs doesn't pay the price for your sins. But Christ DID -- and you mock it!

Shows us what you know Jesus paid absolutely nothing for anyone’s sins….It is just plain silliness what your very very bad teachers have taught you and is very telling .. Vicarius attonement is nonsense Ezekiel18:20 The soul that sinneth,it shall die.The son SHALL NOT Bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him. 21 But If the wicked will turn from his sins that he has committed and keep my statutes and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.22 ALL his TRANSGRESSIONS that he hath committed they shall not be mentioned unto him: In his righteousness that he has done he shall live…….. That is simple and straightforward there are other passages that mention similar scriptures and logical No one takes your sins but Christianity or at least the stuff they you is illogical and nonsense pascal lamb indeed lol….Did not Ezekiel mock the 300 priests of Baal and in the end he proved they were liars and Charletens if you feel mocked then consider yourself a worshipper of Baal because that is what you are esp since you bought a bad product( your belief in the lies they sold you about Jesus) and you fell for it hook line and stinker like a good little fish…

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Then God sent His Holy Spirit to the Church on Pentecost/Shavuot
.and the Romans and the Jews persecuted the Little Flock

 

[shimon]

Hillel: “That which is hateful unto you, do not do unto your friend, the rest [of the Torah] is commentary, go and learn.”

Ethics of the Fathers: The world stands on three things: the study of Torah, prayers and kindness to others.

Rabbi Becher: What Hillel is saying is that if conducted our lives such that every decision we made and every step we took, we always took into account our “friends”, meaning G-d, the soul, and the other person, we would be fulfilling the entire Torah. Everything in the Torah is a commentary on how to live your life with a sensitivity toward all three of our relationships.

Okay there are some problems with what you are using here Meriweather if your “ friend” is trying to take you away from the Torah and what it teaches then your friend is obviously not your friend… So if you worship the G-d of Abraham Isaac and Jacob and your friend is trying to turn you away from that worship by showing you a new way that does not conform like idolatry or many other sins then he is being no friend to you is that not correct…Jesus is an idol in every sense of the word and idolatry is absolutely forbidden and if I am truly his “friend” is it not my obligation to point out his errors and turn him from his sins…

 

[shimon]

Then God sent His Holy Spirit to the Church on Pentecost/Shavuot
.and the Romans and the Jews persecuted the Little Flock

Is that what your bad teachers taught you did “ Caspar the friendly ghost” just pop up and announce himself or did he say Boo and scare the little “ sheeple” There you are blaming the Jews again no wonder the world is full of antisemitism whom persecuted whom all this years….Hmmmmm…

 

[Meriweather]

I'm not sure what the question is asking. Animal sacrifice had many functions.

Yes. I was thinking that it was used to ratify agreements and covenants between God and man. Correct?

 

[shimon]

It's not a charade, the things I've stated on this thread are my sincere beliefs based on looking deeper into the topic of when Jesus was conceived and born.

It's not my intent to offend anyone, but I can understand how my statement that there's a connection between Jesus and Hanukkah could be offensive, to those who celebrate Hanukkah but reject Jesus. Here's the thing though. Even though I don't want to offend anyone, I do want to get to the actual truth, because truth should always be paramount. This doesn't mean that we all have to agree. People can have different ideas about what is true, and that's OK. And disagreement doesn't have to go hand in hand with nastiness or hostility. Like I said earlier on the thread, I was hoping we could have at least one thread in this section that is civil and stays at least mostly on topic. Anyway, I gotta get going now, but I'll try to get back to this thread later.

Hanukkah is not just about the miracle of the oil… It is about the rededication of the temple which was controlled and used in a horrible manner by Antiochias and the removal of foreign occupiers who attempted to “ turn” the people away from the proper worship of the G-d of Abraham Isaac and Jacob…Your trying to place the idol Jesus in places he/ it does not belong is offensive in so many ways and is no different then what the Greeks did by sacrificing pigs on the altar of the temple it is the same abomination

 

[Meriweather]

Okay there are some problems with what you are using here Meriweather if your “ friend” is trying to take you away from the Torah and what it teaches then your friend is obviously not your friend… So if you worship the G-d of Abraham Isaac and Jacob and your friend is trying to turn you away from that worship by showing you a new way that does not conform like idolatry or many other sins then he is being no friend to you is that not correct…Jesus is an idol in every sense of the word and idolatry is absolutely forbidden and if I am truly his “friend” is it not my obligation to point out his errors and turn him from his sins…

I hear you. I had the great fortune of having a Jew whose first language happened to be Hebrew, explain and teach me the Old Testament. From there I searched out rabbinical scholars whose only focus was Judaism, like Christianity did not exist. Next came Catholic commentaries that include the Jewish perspective on all passages that reference Old Testament prophecies. We agree on so much, but there is an impassable stumbling block between the two faith. Christians are convinced Jesus is the Word of God, made flesh, sent into the world for a specific purpose. Jews are convinced God never would have done any such thing. A tenuous connection is both faiths adamantly believe in the Word of God. Therefore, there is no need to call Jesus an idol--and crushingly and needlessly cruel to Christians because Christians see this as a very grave insult to God and God's Words. We love God and as known to all, attacking a loved one also wounds those who love the attacked.

My friend, in presenting the Jewish perspective, was in no way trying to take me away from my own faith. He was sharing Jewish traditions and histories--and their meanings to the Jewish people, a people set apart. Christianity became grafted into, not so much Jewish history, but the history of God and His plans in and for this world. Matthew's gospel (one that causes Jews to be perturbed) was not meant to perturb anyone. Matthew used a literary technique known as foreshadowing, to present God's continuing work/plans for the world. When we remember foreshadowing is never an exact duplicate, but points to a separate similar event, a better, calmer understanding might be reached between Jews and Christians.

Let's take Isaiah 9:6 (For us a child is born)...Isaiah, without a doubt, was referencing King Hezekiah. This reality should be seen by all Christians. It does not in the least affect their part of the story. Christians should see this truly great event in Jewish history as a foreshadowing of a much later history, the birth of Christ. Christians should also be aware that Jews do not, cannot, see the birth of King Hezekiah as a foreshadowing of Jesus, but Jews should be able to understand that gentile Christians do, and their faith in God's work is unshakeable--and Jewish attack on this is seen as wounds directed toward both God and Christians. When we can both understand how vital our faiths are to each other, we should be able to teach without the slightest effort to convert or change anyone's mind. Christians should be able to see Jews are as unshakeable in faith as Christians. Christians should give Jews great respect and take great care not to hurt, as an attack on them, wounds God.

Anyway...sorry for the screed, but perhaps at least, the future, try not to wound Christians on Christmas, just as Christians need to take much greater care on Passover.

 

[BreezeWood]

I'm not sure what the question is asking. Animal sacrifice had many functions.

why they ever occurred ... which function is your favorite.

jesus referred to the practice as sinful - an insult to the heavens made by judaism.

 

[rosends]

Yes. I was thinking that it was used to ratify agreements and covenants between God and man. Correct?

agreements were ratified in a few ways. Sacrifices marked some covenants (between God and man and between men).

 

[Meriweather]

agreements were ratified in a few ways. Sacrifices marked some covenants (between God and man and between men).

Jesus' own sacrifice marked a Covenant between God and man.

 

[rosends]

Jesus' own sacrifice marked a Covenant between God and man.

there are some problems with that according to Judaism. First, Judaism doesn't believe in human sacrifice. Second, as sacrifices go, Jesus wasn't eligible to be a sacrifice. Third, if somehow his death was to ratify a covenant, then it wasn't related to sin at all. I'm sure there are other issues, but whatever you believe is fine with me.

 

[The Irish Ram]

The Bible tells us, not the day Christ was born, but what time of the year Christ was born. It happened when shepherd were watching their flocks by night. In the spring, when the lambs were born...

 

[Meriweather]

there are some problems with that according to Judaism. First, Judaism doesn't believe in human sacrifice. Second, as sacrifices go, Jesus wasn't eligible to be a sacrifice. Third, if somehow his death was to ratify a covenant, then it wasn't related to sin at all. I'm sure there are other issues, but whatever you believe is fine with me.

You don't believe Samson sacrificed his life; that Hannah and her sons did not sacrifice their lives, King Saul and his sons made no sacrifice of their lives for the good of all Jews? More currently, haven't their been rabbis who sacrificed their lives?

In his time, Jesus came with a message: Repentance for the forgiveness of sin. The argument used against Jesus was that only God could forgive sins, and he could not speak for God or there would be signs from above. Recall Abraham. He sacrificed a three-year-old cow, a three-year-old goat, a three-year-old ram, a dove, and a young pigeon to establish a Covenant with God.

In the story of Christ, God was calling for a new covenant with his people, the Covenant of, "Sins are forgiven." Just like many Biblical characters before him, Jesus sacrificed his life so that all would know God declared, "Repentance for he forgiveness of sins." Religious people of power in his day (who did not happen to like this message) told him to cease and desist. Jesus chose to obey God instead of those with power, thus sacrificing his life. It was not the blood of a cow, a goat, a ram, a dove, and a young pigeon Jesus spilled out. He gave his own blood to be spilled, the sign of this New Covenant (New Testament).

The next signs: He rose from the dead. He ascended into heaven. That Jesus returned to life was witnessed, not by all, but by hundreds. Many of those who did not witness, did not believe. Today, "Repentance for the forgiveness of sins" is taken as a given, even by Jews. Old Testament passages came to mind, correct? God did not just spring a surprise on people with Repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Prophets in earlier times had also spoke of this. Jesus became the final sacrifice, all for the forgiveness of sins, paying the price, all because of sin. God desires obedience, not sacrifice, and Jesus was obedient to delivering this news--obedient to God even when it meant his death.

No human sacrifice? What do you call the Holocaust if not human beings sacrificing their lives for their faith?

 

[rosends]

You don't believe Samson sacrificed his life; that Hannah and her sons did not sacrifice their lives, King Saul and his sons made no sacrifice of their lives for the good of all Jews? More currently, haven't their been rabbis who sacrificed their lives?

Now you are using the word "sacrifice" very differently. None of those examples has anyone being a sacrifice in the formal sense. And dying for a cause is not the same as sacrificing anything. Jews don't see it as "sacrifice" if one dies to glorify God's name. That's the furthest thing from a sacrifice.

No human sacrifice? What do you call the Holocaust if not human beings sacrificing their lives for their faith?

I call it millions of people being victimized because of their beliefs. That they were killed does not make their deaths a sacrifice. It makes it a tragedy.