Is freedom necessary?

Votto

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Oct 31, 2012
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In this video, at the very end, we see the question asked, is freedom necessary?

The video is a futuristic look in the 1950's, into a potential society that will forsake the virtues of democracy in favor of despotism.

Huxley concludes that democracy may be preserved in such a despotic regime, assuming you can bypass the tenants of democracy which is choice based upon reason and self-interest. But what if reason could be bypassed through such things as propaganda that work on the emotions of the voter rather then their reason? Or what if drugs were offered that would bypass their reason? Or what if technological devices could outthink you and strip you of your logic because AI may have a superior ability to reason than you? Huxley concludes that future elections will more than likely result in people voting on a level below their rational logic, a candidate that may not even be able to talk in complete sentences, like we saw with Fetterman after his stroke, or Joe Biden speaking gibberish. In such instances, people have bypassed their reason and embraced their emotions on who makes them feel better or worse instead. We also see this with a populace that now thinks men can have babies, and a Supreme Court justice that can no longer tell you what a woman is without a trained biologist by her side.

Yes my friends, we are here. Freedom is gone in favor of group think and propaganda that rules and reigns our votes.

But what now? At the end of the video, the question is asked, "Is freedom even necessary"? Mike Wallace pointed to the then former USSR where freedom was not embraced, yet they seemed to be doing well for themselves, at that time, not knowing that their entire financial state would tear them asunder due to their despotism in the 1990's as the empire broke up into the current Putin era of continued despotism.

So, is it necessary? Huxley seemed to think that freedom was needed for creativity. But is creativity needed? Huxley seemed to think that it was needed for advances in such things as science and technology, because the ruling class, whoever, they may be, will be interested in such things to increase their power. Huxley then pointed out that in the former USSR, the scientists were given extraordinary freedom in comparison to the average citizen, thus preserving their creative juices. Huxley then speculates that despotism may be able to be perpetual under such a system where freedom in society is all but crushed, aside from an oligarchial society that sits atop the impoverished and suffering society.

We see this in North Korea. Here you have a populace that is essentially starving to death, except in the Capital of North Korea where their dictator resides. It is there that people are given more food, more freedoms, and treated far better than the average citizen. That oligarchical bubble is a buffer against the rest of society that may want you dead, an army to fight for you, a group of scientists to bring you scientific breakthroughs, etc.

We all are beginning to see this in Washington DC, where real estate is the highest, a public transportation system that is spotless and unmatched, etc. These people are the richest in the United States, both in wealth and power.

Will the US eventually become North Korea as the rest of the populace is literally starving to death? Is it sustainable, assuming you have an army that to defend you that is treated better?
 


In this video, at the very end, we see the question asked, is freedom necessary?

The video is a futuristic look in the 1950's, into a potential society that will forsake the virtues of democracy in favor of despotism.

Huxley concludes that democracy may be preserved in such a despotic regime, assuming you can bypass the tenants of democracy which is choice based upon reason and self-interest. But what if reason could be bypassed through such things as propaganda that work on the emotions of the voter rather then their reason? Or what if drugs were offered that would bypass their reason? Or what if technological devices could outthink you and strip you of your logic because AI may have a superior ability to reason than you? Huxley concludes that future elections will more than likely result in people voting on a level below their rational logic, a candidate that may not even be able to talk in complete sentences, like we saw with Fetterman after his stroke, or Joe Biden speaking gibberish. In such instances, people have bypassed their reason and embraced their emotions on who makes them feel better or worse instead. We also see this with a populace that now thinks men can have babies, and a Supreme Court justice that can no longer tell you what a woman is without a trained biologist by her side.

Yes my friends, we are here. Freedom is gone in favor of group think and propaganda that rules and reigns our votes.

But what now? At the end of the video, the question is asked, "Is freedom even necessary"? Mike Wallace pointed to the then former USSR where freedom was not embraced, yet they seemed to be doing well for themselves, at that time, not knowing that their entire financial state would tear them asunder due to their despotism in the 1990's as the empire broke up into the current Putin era of continued despotism.

So, is it necessary? Huxley seemed to think that freedom was needed for creativity. But is creativity needed? Huxley seemed to think that it was needed for advances in such things as science and technology, because the ruling class, whoever, they may be, will be interested in such things to increase their power. Huxley then pointed out that in the former USSR, the scientists were given extraordinary freedom in comparison to the average citizen, thus preserving their creative juices. Huxley then speculates that despotism may be able to be perpetual under such a system where freedom in society is all but crushed, aside from an oligarchial society that sits atop the impoverished and suffering society.

We see this in North Korea. Here you have a populace that is essentially starving to death, except in the Capital of North Korea where their dictator resides. It is there that people are given more food, more freedoms, and treated far better than the average citizen. That oligarchical bubble is a buffer against the rest of society that may want you dead, an army to fight for you, a group of scientists to bring you scientific breakthroughs, etc.

We all are beginning to see this in Washington DC, where real estate is the highest, a public transportation system that is spotless and unmatched, etc. These people are the richest in the United States, both in wealth and power.

Will the US eventually become North Korea as the rest of the populace is literally starving to death? Is it sustainable, assuming you have an army that to defend you that is treated better?

In America individual freedoms frees the government from the nuisance of controlling every little thing we do (it's nearly impossible to 'herd cats'). Even our regulatory agencies are unable to monitor activities that they are charged with overseeing. Our government is overworked and disorganized.
 
There are many working class and poor Americans starting to ask those questions.

Yes, some freedoms are necessary and will be demanded by the people. It comes with Capitalism that has a socialist component.

America's capitalism is failing and so you and many others are beginning to ask the right questions.

Also worth mentioning is that America can't continue to bring wealth and freedom to its people through continuous wars of plundering the riches of other countries.

Other nuclear armed superpowers are proving capable!
 
It's called "tyranny of the majority" ... we've chosen to teach our children about gender identity and sexual preferences in our homes, and not the local schools ... and boy-oh-boy are our schools happy about that ...

If you disagree with your local community ... maybe move ... just not here, no housing and crime is rampant ... rains every day all day long ...
 
We're teetering like never before.

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Yes, some freedoms are necessary and will be demanded by the people. It comes with Capitalism that has a socialist component.
What is that supposed to mean.
America's capitalism is failing and so you and many others are beginning to ask the right questions.
You're pretending to know what the "right" questions are??
 
In America individual freedoms frees the government from the nuisance of controlling every little thing we do (it's nearly impossible to 'herd cats'). Even our regulatory agencies are unable to monitor activities that they are charged with overseeing. Our government is overworked and disorganized.
The advent of AI changes all this

Now AI can trace every human activity on the face of the planet through such activities as your cell phone or even this conversation. It can record it, study it, and find a way to even give a retort.

Snowden gave us a hint of how the NSA overseas all of our activities.

This is a world where an army of drones across the country and world are watching and even killing with them, yet the border is wide open and not manageable?

The appearance of disorder does not make it so
 
In regard to freedom, a thought that I've considered over the decades is whether our election system really results in a representative government. Our civilian military forces carried the day in WWII and we have juries to decide the fate of those charged with crimes. Considering all the money being dished out for these elections I wondered if we could do better by just randomly picking names out of phone books. Of course, that was back in time when we still had phone books.
 


Resistance to Diddycrats is obedience to God

God given you freedom, it is only man who takes that freedom away, even when they do it in the name of God, it is still man calling those shots.
 
In regard to freedom, a thought that I've considered over the decades is whether our election system really results in a representative government. Our civilian military forces carried the day in WWII and we have juries to decide the fate of those charged with crimes. Considering all the money being dished out for these elections I wondered if we could do better by just randomly picking names out of phone books. Of course, that was back in time when we still had phone books.
Those in power have no interest in sharing their power, so why would they take their power to change the system?

The only changes will be if those changes increase their power.

I am not hear to preach that your votes even matter anymore. I'm asking is freedom even needed now, or are the elites making a mistake?

If you do still think your vote matters I'm not even hear to convince you otherwise either.

Good luck with that.
 
Those in power have no interest in sharing their power, so why would they take their power to change the system?

The only changes will be if those changes increase their power.

I am not hear to preach that your votes even matter anymore. I'm asking is freedom even needed now, or are the elites making a mistake?

If you do still think your vote matters I'm not even hear to convince you otherwise either.

Good luck with that.
Your vote only matters if your candidate/party wins.
 
Your vote only matters if your candidate/party wins.
Does your vote ever determine that?

No, unless you can point to one election that depended on your one vote. All that has been done is you have joined a group think.

And what of the people you voted for? They lie with impunity, which pretty much negates the vote you gave them to do the things they promised to do, thus no real representation.

All voting does is to give the appearance of legitimacy, which is why Putin still has elections, but as we all know if Trump wins the DNC will say he is illegitimate like they did last time, or if Biden wins, the cries will be he is also not legitimate.

Could it be both are right in these claims of a lack of legitimacy?

I mean, does anyone here think Biden represent citizens as he gives preference to illegals, or does the GOP have legitimacy of saying they care about illegal immigration but once in power do nothing to stop it like they did when Trump was in power with a GOP Congress? They could have easily voted for a wall, for example, but chose not to.
 
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In America individual freedoms frees the government from the nuisance of controlling every little thing we do

Where were you during the COVID lockdowns/vaccine mandates?

Or when they unleashed their street thugs on us throughout the summer of 2020?
 
In this video, at the very end, we see the question asked, is freedom necessary?
An enlightened post for the upper quintile posters here to hopefully opine on Votto

Myself, i would only say the metric is hard to establish

re> define freedom......

one could ask any given political party , a libertarian, an anarchist , a communist or fascist for that matter......

one could dwell on the individuality , or collective aspects

if you can see how hard the definition of freedom really is, maybe you'll realize how easy it is to loose it

jmho

~S~
 
Does your vote ever determine that?

No, unless you can point to one election that depended on your one vote. All that has been done is you have joined a group think.

And what of the people you voted for? They lie with impunity, which pretty much negates the vote you gave them to do the things they promised to do, thus no real representation.
No national candidate that I know of ever ran on what I wanted (who would run on the death penalty?). No local candidate ever ran on cleaning up our lakes.

Those are my issues, the death penalty, and clean lakes. :biggrin:
 
An enlightened post for the upper quintile posters here to hopefully opine on Votto

Myself, i would only say the metric is hard to establish

re> define freedom......

one could ask any given political party , a libertarian, an anarchist , a communist or fascist for that matter......

one could dwell on the individuality , or collective aspects

if you can see how hard the definition of freedom really is, maybe you'll realize how easy it is to loose it

jmho

~S~
Excellent point. What is freedom?

The only other thing harder to define is what a woman is.
 
An enlightened post for the upper quintile posters here to hopefully opine on Votto

Myself, i would only say the metric is hard to establish

re> define freedom......

Then of course it naturally transitions into the debate regarding the bifurcation of negative freedom vs. positive freedom.

I was first introduced to Isaiah Berlin's freedom paradigm by the 2007 documentary "The Trap" - and I must confess it still confounds me to this day.
 
No national candidate that I know of ever ran on what I wanted (who would run on the death penalty?). No local candidate ever ran on cleaning up our lakes.

Those are my issues, the death penalty, and clean lakes. :biggrin:
That is telling, isn't it? The very things you hold dear to your heart no one at the government level ever mentions.

They pretend they don't exist or that the way things are has been settled.
 

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