Is freedom necessary?

[Woodznutz]

An enlightened post for the upper quintile posters here to hopefully opine on Votto

Myself, i would only say the metric is hard to establish

re> define freedom......

one could ask any given political party , a libertarian, an anarchist , a communist or fascist for that matter......

one could dwell on the individuality , or collective aspects

if you can see how hard the definition of freedom really is, maybe you'll realize how easy it is to loose it

jmho

~S~

Just compare ours to North Korea. That would be a good start.

 

[Votto]

Then of course it naturally transitions into the debate regarding the bifurcation of negative freedom vs. positive freedom.

I was first introduced to Isaiah Berlin's freedom paradigm by the 2007 documentary "The Trap" - and I must confess it still confounds me to this day.

Both religion and government struggle with the notion of freedom.


Freedom that lends itself to hurting others pr yourself should be curbed, whether from a religious perspective or a governmental one. The other question becomes, curbed how? Using what methods?


So, now we must define what is harm? Anyone?


I am always drawn to this prophetic quote from C. S. Lewis

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”​

Those on the Left sleep just fine knowing everything they do to squash freedom is to save the planet from climate change, for example.

There is nothing that goes to far to do so.

 

[BluesLegend]

Hell I'd take just being free from stupid shit Dems and looney left wingers.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Both religion and government struggle with the notion of freedom.


Freedom that lends itself to hurting others should be curbed, whether from a religious perspective or a governmental one.


So, now we must define what is harm? Anyone?


I am always drawn to this prophetic quote from C. S. Lewis

All true, but the dynamic at work in the "Negative vs. Positive" Freedom I am alluding to concerns a type of freedom where each citizen is left in peace to find their own meaning in life as opposed to a "pro-active" freedom where an institution (such as Government) provides the framework through which a free existence is perceived.

These days I am definitively less confounded as the latter sounds like potential authoritarianism in disguise.

Or the road to serfdom paved with good intentions.

Supposedly.

 

[Votto]

All true, but the dynamic at work in the "Negative vs. Positive" Freedom I am alluding to concerns a type of freedom where each citizen is left in peace to find their own meaning in life as opposed to a "pro-active" freedom where an institution (such as Government) provides the framework through which a free existence is perceived.

These days I am definitively less confounded as the latter sounds like potential authoritarianism in disguise.

Or the road to serfdom paved with good intentions.

Supposedly.

Right. Take the right to bear arms today. If the Left were championing this today, they would take it to mean the government just buy arms to give to everyone and distribute them equally, otherwise their rights are being denied.

This is blatantly absurd, but they do it literally with everything else they champion and is an example demonstrating their own absurd philosophies about government and life in general.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Right. Take the right to bear arms today. If the Left were championing this today, they would take it to mean the government just buy arms to give to everyone and distribute them equally, otherwise their rights are being denied.

This is blatantly absurd, but they do it literally with everything else they champion and is an example demonstrating their own absurd philosophies about government and life in general.

And, of course, the punchline is that the largest demographic surge in gun sales has been precipitated by women and minorities whose cities are falling apart under the yolk of Democrat hegemony.

 

[BluesLegend]

In regard to freedom, a thought that I've considered over the decades is whether our election system really results in a representative government.

It does NOT! In spite of the Founders best efforts the politicians have schemed to RIG congress in such a way that the power resides in the hands of just a few. A recent example is this pile of steaming manure $1.2 trillion dollar spending bill. The details hashed out in a back room by a handful of people. Your representatives were not afforded an opportunity to weigh in, or even read the damn thing. A 1,000 page monstrosity chocked full of PORK they gave your representatives less than 48 hours to read the thing before the vote and NO opportunity to offer amendments. Passed with less than half the Republican majority voting for it.

In each state the two parties conspire to RIG each district such that either a Dem or Rep is almost guaranteed to win, via the most contorted gerrymandering district maps ever made. Then that party funds their bought and paid for hack, giving the people the illusion of a choice.

So here we are 200+ years later, just another corrupt pile of shit government like the last 5,000 years of human history.

 

[Woodznutz]

That is telling, isn't it? The very things you hold dear to your heart no one at the government level ever mentions.

They pretend they don't exist or that the way things are has been settled.

They are politicians, who only care for their personal interests.

 

[BluesLegend]

They are politicians, who only care for their personal interests.

Hell is there any other kind? Save the rare odd politician with integrity. These civil servants stay in office for decades, amassing vast multi million dollar fortunes north of $100 million, multiple mansions, on a civil servants pay.