Hate the Sin, But Love the Sinner?

[Care4all]

Hate the sin but love the sinner...... Can you really do that....?

It does not appear that way....

So what does that mean?

Jesus Christ COULD do such, and did do such many times in the Bible....giving complete forgiveness, washing away the sinner's sin can be describe no other way than to say He loved us, with heart, body and soul....

But can we humans really humble ourselves enough to do such?

Can we release our own PRIDE and admit that we too are sinners in our own ways and that our sins are "no better" than the sins of the adulteress that Jesus forgave, as example?

Can we LOVE enough to forgive all sins of others?

 

[editec]

Hate the sin but love the sinner...... Can you really do that....?

Depends on the sin...and the sinner, doesn't it?

 

[Care4all]

Hate the sin but love the sinner...... Can you really do that....?

Depends on the sin...and the sinner, doesn't it?

It's not suppose to matter....it didn't to Christ/God?

I just see all kinds of hateful statements from people that are suppose to be Christians emulating Christ, so i was wondering what the Lord's Prayer really means when it tells us:

Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us....

Is Barney Frank as example, really even "sinning against us"? Has he done something to harm me personally or the others personally?

God forgave David for murdering Basheeba's husband....and there probably is not a physical sin much greater than murder, it seems? Unless we can accept, that sin is sin, then murder is no different than Adultery or fornication, or stealing or even covetting those material things that your neighbor has....?

 

[tigerbob]

Hate the sin but love the sinner...... Can you really do that....?

Depends on the sin...and the sinner, doesn't it?

It's not suppose to matter....it didn't to Christ/God?

I just see all kinds of hateful statements from people that are suppose to be Christians emulating Christ, so i was wondering what the Lord's Prayer really means when it tells us:

Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us....

Is Barney Frank as example, really even "sinning against us"? Has he done something to harm me personally or the others personally?

God forgave David for murdering Basheeba's husband....and there probably is not a physical sin much greater than murder, it seems? Unless we can accept, that sin is sin, then murder is no different than Adultery or fornication, or stealing or even covetting those material things that your neighbor has....?

Unfortunately perhaps, I agree with Editec (not that I have anything against Ed, I should add).

I can recognize things I do wrong, and I generally regret them and say I'm sorry for them.

But as far as forgiveness goes, there are some crimes that I confess I find it very difficult to be forgiving about. I know that's not what JC taught, but I'm human.

Each of us has to hold themselves accountable to their own personal standards, and (Christians believe) be prepared to defend those standards.

 

[BrokenAngel]

Hate the sin but love the sinner...... Can you really do that....?

It does not appear that way....

So what does that mean?

Jesus Christ COULD do such, and did do such many times in the Bible....giving complete forgiveness, washing away the sinner's sin can be describe no other way than to say He loved us, with heart, body and soul....

But can we humans really humble ourselves enough to do such?

Can we release our own PRIDE and admit that we too are sinners in our own ways and that our sins are "no better" than the sins of the adulteress that Jesus forgave, as example?

Can we LOVE enough to forgive all sins of others?

Hate the sin.. love the sinner is something we all must strive towards. A goal in our existence, to turn the other cheek. That doesn't mean lay down and let sinners and evil roll over you and your family. That means that it is not YOUR place to judge but rather that is to be left to God.

If someone commits mass murder, kills dozens of people you shouldn't be cursing that person's name but rather look towards praying for the souls of those who just passed. Talk to your church and see if you can't get together care baskets to send to the families of those who died and even the family of the killer because they are likely to be in danger in their neighborhood.

Leave judgement and persecution up to God because he gets the final word anyways right? Focus your energies on being a good person because anger and hate are the first steps towards letting sin into your own life.

Don't mean to go all Yoda on ya. ^_^

 

[Ravi]

Aren't all sins actually God's fault since He gave us the ability to sin? And how much easier for Him to forgive a sinner if he is ultimately responsible.

 

[tigerbob]

Aren't all sins actually God's fault since He gave us the ability to sin? And how much easier for Him to forgive a sinner if he is ultimately responsible.

That's like saying it's the State's fault if we hit someone while driving because the State provides the licence and the rules.

 

[BrokenAngel]

Aren't all sins actually God's fault since He gave us the ability to sin? And how much easier for Him to forgive a sinner if he is ultimately responsible.

That would be misplaced blaim since he gave you the ability to choose between right and wrong. He loves you enough to give you the choice and not make you a mindless drone spending every day on your knees praising his name in worship. I think allowing us the choice to be who we want to be deserves a little more respect than copping out and blaiming him for the problems we subsequently bring on ourselves.

 

[editec]

Hate the sin but love the sinner...... Can you really do that....?

Depends on the sin...and the sinner, doesn't it?

It's not suppose to matter....it didn't to Christ/God?

Yeah and look where it got him. Hey, I'm not the son of God, Care. I recognize my limitations. Mostly I'm a forgiving guy, but there are at least a few people who, if I ever run into them, I will run over them.

I just see all kinds of hateful statements from people that are suppose to be Christians emulating Christ, so i was wondering what the Lord's Prayer really means when it tells us:

Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us....

A good goal, but is it realistic, Care?

Is Barney Frank as example, really even "sinning against us"? Has he done something to harm me personally or the others personally?

Good question. Certainly he has some responsibility for the meltdown. To what extent he is responsibile is not entirely clear to me.

God forgave David for murdering Basheeba's husband....and there probably is not a physical sin much greater than murder, it seems? Unless we can accept, that sin is sin, then murder is no different than Adultery or fornication, or stealing or even covetting those material things that your neighbor has....?

Murder is not the same degree of sin as adultery or theft.

I admire your desire to be that kind of forgiving Christian, I'm just telling you honestly, I am not that guy.

I've known some people that good that they can forgive every transgression, and they have my respect.

But I'm not that GOOD a man.

 

[LiveUninhibited]

Might be easier when you combine it with

Luke 23:34 Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."

Basically doing something wrong (or sinful) is necessarily based upon ignorance on some level. Sure, some "bad" people possess skills and intelligence, but being sociopathic reflects a cognitive deficiency in other areas.

And of course hating somebody is not going to do you or them any good. Jesus obviously didn't want Christians to walk around with their finger pointed at others anyway.

 

[Care4all]

Aren't all sins actually God's fault since He gave us the ability to sin? And how much easier for Him to forgive a sinner if he is ultimately responsible.

It's funny you mentioned this...not funny, but good that you did...and it is a question of many...even if they don't want to admit it and it is something that is very hard to understand imo.

many people have said that there are complete contradictions in the Bible and this is why there can be no God....

As example, in a part of Bible, it talks of Soloman's death and God says that "He" killed Soloman..... but then a few passages later, it goes on to say that Soloman killed himself via falling on to his own sword.

So which is it? What is correct?

And this happens in the Bible over and over again....where the physical act of the sin, committed by the person happens, but then God also says that He did this....

many people take this as an evil God, a murderous God, not a loving God....

But what it really is, at least to me, is God taking responsibility...the buck stops here, kind of thing, for our own individual sins, BECAUSE He gave us free will...

so it is not that God killed Soloman as he said, but he allowed it to happen because ultimately, He is the one that gave us free will in the first place....it is God mourning so to say, for him giving us free will...

 

[LiveUninhibited]

Aren't all sins actually God's fault since He gave us the ability to sin? And how much easier for Him to forgive a sinner if he is ultimately responsible.

The idea is that free will is necessary for choosing to love God to have any meaning whatsoever. With free will comes sin, but theoretically somebody could choose to never sin. Christians seem to believe nobody has successfully done that though. If we assume Christianity is accurate one could say God set up an unreasonable standard and replaced it with an arbitrary one, namely loving Jesus.

 

[xsited1]

Hate the sin but love the sinner...... Can you really do that....?
...

It depends on the person. If they are person of authority, it's more difficult.

 

[Ravi]

Aren't all sins actually God's fault since He gave us the ability to sin? And how much easier for Him to forgive a sinner if he is ultimately responsible.

That's like saying it's the State's fault if we hit someone while driving because the State provides the licence and the rules.

Except that the state isn't responsible for our existence...we are responsible for the existence of the state.

Aren't all sins actually God's fault since He gave us the ability to sin? And how much easier for Him to forgive a sinner if he is ultimately responsible.

It's funny you mentioned this...not funny, but good that you did...and it is a question of many...even if they don't want to admit it and it is something that is very hard to understand imo.

many people have said that there are complete contradictions in the Bible and this is why there can be no God....

As example, in a part of Bible, it talks of Soloman's death and God says that "He" killed Soloman..... but then a few passages later, it goes on to say that Soloman killed himself via falling on to his own sword.

So which is it? What is correct?

And this happens in the Bible over and over again....where the physical act of the sin, committed by the person happens, but then God also says that He did this....

many people take this as an evil God, a murderous God, not a loving God....

But what it really is, at least to me, is God taking responsibility...the buck stops here, kind of thing, for our own individual sins, BECAUSE He gave us free will...

so it is not that God killed Soloman as he said, but he allowed it to happen because ultimately, He is the one that gave us free will in the first place....it is God mourning so to say, for him giving us free will...

Maybe God just has a wicked sense of humor. If God allows something to happen, isn't that the same thing as being ultimately responsible? As for free will...it is still within God's power to take that away.

 

[editec]

Assuming there is a GOD and assuming that free will isn't a delusion, then God granted us free will (which is really a manifestation of our egos) so that we could be GREATER than the angels.

REally attempting to find any logical explaination for any of this is way beyond me, folks.

It's a ying yang thing, I suspect.

Without darkness, light is meaningless, I suppose.

 

[tigerbob]

Aren't all sins actually God's fault since He gave us the ability to sin? And how much easier for Him to forgive a sinner if he is ultimately responsible.

That's like saying it's the State's fault if we hit someone while driving because the State provides the licence and the rules.

Except that the state isn't responsible for our existence...we are responsible for the existence of the state.

We are responsible for ourselves.

 

[editec]

That's like saying it's the State's fault if we hit someone while driving because the State provides the licence and the rules.

Except that the state isn't responsible for our existence...we are responsible for the existence of the state.

We are responsible for ourselves.

More or less true.

 

[del]

this pastor seems to have achieved it, but would you want to live near him?

FOXNews.com - New England Town Outraged After Pastor Takes In Child Killer - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

part of me admires him, and part of me wants to dope slap him.

 

[Truthmatters]

When a "sin" (crime may be a better word in my world view)is commited it is usally out of confusion, desperation, insanity or a personality disorder.

To love the "sinner" is to treat them in a rational manner instead of ......well.....acting like a criminal your self in how you treat them.

Its a very wise and well thought out idea.

 

[xsited1]

this pastor seems to have achieved it, but would you want to live near him?

FOXNews.com - New England Town Outraged After Pastor Takes In Child Killer - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

part of me admires him, and part of me wants to dope slap him.

I would forgive him all the way to the gallows.