Zone1 God of the Old Testament and New Testament

[Donald H]

Trees release pheromones to warn other trees of danger, such as pests.
Trees release scents to attract natural predators to help them fight pests.
Trees use the network to find other trees that are related to them.
Trees share nutrients and water with seedlings to help them grow.

Humans and trees have a common ancestor.

 

[Meriweather]

But please, go on with the other places where Jesus talks about eternal separation from God, even fire and torment.

Not my priority. As I said before if there is a verse(s) where a single teaching is addressed that you would like to discuss, let me know and I would be happy to discuss how it pertains to the Way of Salvation Jesus was teaching.

 

[ding]

Humans and trees have a common ancestor.

Given that life is a continuous chain, every living thing does.

 

[Donald H]

Given that life is a continuous chain, every living thing doe

Imaginary characters from the bibles, such as Adam and Eve, excluded.

Your statement lacks context.

 

[hadit]

I know we disagree on purgatory, so I did not raise the issue. In essence I said that there may be consequences: Punishment of some kind--including eternal separation from God (hell); purification (purgatory). Or...sins are forgiven. My first point is that "condemned" is a translation from the Hebrew/Aramaic that identifies that which is wrong. It does not indicate people are going to go to hell, as at that time our idea of hell didn't yet come into being. It means something is declared to be wrong and the level of 'wrong' could also indicate punishment.

My second point is that there is more than one result when it comes to judgment, and we cannot predict beforehand what that judgment will be.

All this swings back to my priority, of teaching the Ways of salvation that Jesus taught. This one is, watch your language and be very careful of what you say and the words you use.

Finally, "It sounds like" is another way of saying, "In other words" in attempts to spin what I say into something entirely different. My words can stand alone.

I still have no desire to be found wrong in the eyes of God. Next, Matthew 18:8-9.

 

[hadit]

Not my priority. As I said before if there is a verse(s) where a single teaching is addressed that you would like to discuss, let me know and I would be happy to discuss how it pertains to the Way of Salvation Jesus was teaching.

I gave you multiple instances and you only want to talk about one? Jesus talked about judgement, punishment and separation from God a lot. He even referenced the fires of hell. Why don't you want to talk about them?

 

[Foxfyre]

I still have no desire to be found wrong in the eyes of God. Next, Matthew 18:8-9.

You can't realistically consider Matthew 18:8-9 without starting with Verse 6:

6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

Did Jesus mean 8 and 9 literally? Of course not. It was his way to teach via parable, allegory, metaphor, symbolism, but the point made is clear:

If what you are doing will result in hell, don't do it. Most especially when you do things that harm others, most especially the children.

 

[hadit]

You can't realistically consider Matthew 18:8-9 without starting with Verse 6:

6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

Did Jesus mean 8 and 9 literally? Of course not. It was his way to teach via parable, allegory, metaphor, symbolism, but the point made is clear:

If what you are doing will result in hell, don't do it. Most especially when you do things that harm others, most especially the children.

Oh, absolutely. The context here is someone who doesn't think Jesus talked much about hell.

 

[ding]

Imaginary characters from the bibles, such as Adam and Eve, excluded.

Your statement lacks context.

I think you mean to say symbolic representatives of the first humans who became aware of their origin.

What context do you think that statement lacked? Could it be that you aren't aware of the implications of the necessity that life be an unbroken continuous chain? My statement was chock full of context that flew over your head.

 

[Meriweather]

Oh, absolutely. The context here is someone who doesn't think Jesus talked much about hell.

No, the context here is that Jesus talked more about the Way of Salvation and that his teachings centered on salvation.

 

[Foxfyre]

Oh, absolutely. The context here is someone who doesn't think Jesus talked much about hell.

Well in their defense his teachings/emphasis were not much on hell. In your defense he definitely strongly suggested such a thing exists. And those who unjustly harm others, especially children, are most in danger of it.

 

[hadit]

No, the context here is that Jesus talked more about the Way of Salvation and that his teachings centered on salvation.

Oh, I agree He prioritized the positive aspects of following Him and submitting to Him. He did not, however, completely ignore the consequences of not following Him. He preached both.

 

[hadit]

No, the context here is that Jesus talked more about the Way of Salvation and that his teachings centered on salvation.

But he did talk about hell and about those being judged and cast out into darkness as well as into fire.

 

[Meriweather]

I still have no desire to be found wrong in the eyes of God. Next, Matthew 18:8-9.

If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life maimed or crippled than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into fiery Gehenna. (Matthew 18:8-9)

The word 'eternal' is from the word aionios. 'Gehenna' was the city dump. In the first, God is the only being who belongs to the ages. Gehenna was where one threw all that was totally useless. It's basically saying that punishment/consequences are decided by God alone. The fate of all who are useless is in the hands of God. What is totally useless in your life, what is totally useless in your service to God, what is totally useless in your service to others?

Fear being useless which leads to contemplation/discussion in what is useful? Do that; do what is useful to He who belongs to the ages. Again, note that God's specific punishment is not named--it will be what benefits God. Take note, however, what happens to what is totally useless in Jerusalem during the time of Jesus. In another place Jesus warns to fear He who can destroy both body and soul. Again, be useful.

 

[Meriweather]

Oh, I agree He prioritized the positive aspects of following Him and submitting to Him. He did not, however, completely ignore the consequences of not following Him. He preached both.

And the sun rises in the East. What is Christ's priority? Remember him saying that it was not the will of God that any should be lost. God loves each one of us and further, we cannot do anything without God. It seems to me one has to work really, really hard and be fierce in their decision to decide against eternity with God. Hell is a choice.

 

[hadit]

And the sun rises in the East. What is Christ's priority? Remember him saying that it was not the will of God that any should be lost.

And absolutely nowhere does it indicate that He will save someone who does not want to be saved. I don't know what world you live in, but most Americans at least would look at Him and ask, "Saved from what? I don't believe anything bad will happen to me. You're supposed to be that peace love and flowers guy, aren't you, so why are you calling me to change anything? You're supposed to just save me no matter what."

God loves each one of us and further, we cannot do anything without God. It seems to me one has to work really, really hard and be fierce in their decision to decide against eternity with God. Hell is a choice.

Do you think more people will spend eternity with God than without? Remember what Jesus said about the narrow way and few that find it, and the many are called but few are chosen.

 

[hadit]

Jesus said over and over and over again that many will be thrown out of God's presence to suffer eternally, even specifically on judgement day they will be thrown away from Him. We cannot pretend that everyone's going to enjoy His presence for all eternity.

 

[Meriweather]

We cannot pretend that everyone's going to enjoy His presence for all eternity.

Why were you pretending that to begin with?

 

[Meriweather]

Do you think more people will spend eternity with God than without? Remember what Jesus said about the narrow way and few that find it, and the many are called but few are chosen.

What does any of that have to do with the discussion? Do you think you will get more people to choose God by scaring them, or do you think more people will be drawn to God through love and wanting to serve?

 

[frigidweirdo]

God is. Thus, what is seen is reality.

Which is a really bad argument.