Zone1 Does God the Father have a body of flesh and bones the same as Jesus Christ?

[onefour1]

The resurrection is the putting on of immortality, ie never dying again. This means that when we resurrect, we will receive an immortal body of flesh and bones the same as Jesus received to never die again but live immortally in our resurrected body. This resurrection will come upon both the just and the unjust. All who ever lived will resurrect to immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:53-54
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Revelation 1:18
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Acts 24:15
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

1 Corinthians 15:22
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Romans 6:5
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Philippians 3:21
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

2 Timothy 1:10
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done devil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Alma 11:45
45 Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption.

 

[onefour1]

I'm telling you, Jesus is not FLESH AND BLOOD, and neither will be the RESURRECTED SAINTS

You are right that he is not "flesh and blood" but he is flesh and bones as shown in Luke 24 (see post #54 above). "Flesh and blood" refers to our mortal state but in our immortal state our bodies will rise and they will still be made of flesh and bones but with no blood.

 

[Red Front]

According to the Hebrew Bible, the so-called "body" of YHWH is the archangel and the hosts of heaven who bear His divine family Name. YHWH Father is a completely immaterial state of being that manifests power and light in the material world, capable of establishing a degree of order that overcomes entropy and eternal death. God the Father is the causeless cause of consciousness, life, all of the laws of the cosmos, and He is a person only in and through the personhood and identity of His children. Those who are aligned with YHWH's immortal nature and reality, manifest the YHWH state of being, the presence, and eternal life of YHWH, His Name is His divine immortal nature and life. YHWH The Father according to the Hebrew Bible isn't an individual person in the same way that you are a person. YHWH transcends individual, finite personhood and identity. Within the space-time continuum, and in the timeless alpha and omega realms, YHWH is a community of holy spirits i.e. angels that embody and manifest His Name.

This universe began with a singularity or an alpha point. And it will end with another singularity or omega point. YHWH is the Alpha and Omega, including everything in between those two points of being. The aspects of YHWH that surrender to the chaos or sin, perish and are forgotten forever, while those who overcome the chaos and sin inherit The divine and immortal Name of YHWH. They join the family of YHWH, as holy spirits. The armies of heaven.

 

[ninja007]

Doctrine and Covenants 93:33-34
33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;
34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.

The reason that evil spirits, who cannot receive a body of flesh and bones, attempt to possess those of us who do have bodies is because they want the joy that one can receive from having a body. When Jesus cast out the legion of devils from a man, the devils even requested that they could go into the a heard of swine. They were that desperate to have more element with their spirits rather than be without. Evil spirits would like nothing more than to inhabit the bodies we possess which God does not allow them to have because of their rebellion in the war in heaven.

d & c is a lie/heretical man made book/teaching- do not go outside of the KJV BIBLE.

 

[ninja007]

Why the Mormon Church is not the TRUE church Jesus Christ started?​

Robert Millet is part of the Church Public Affairs (Manager of Outreach and Interfaith Relations)

Millet is the Mormon churches spokesman to try and make peace with Christians, he currently does public tours called dialogues between an Evangelical and Mormon. Millet states, “much of the misunderstanding in modern Christendom stems from a “vocabulary issue” -- the need to educate ourselves as to what our friends mean.” I agree, the meaning of what is said can be different than the words. The meaning can also be more important then the words said. We will consider the LDS church own words and statements; the meaning becomes obvious.

In this article the main differences between true Christianity and what the religion of Mormonism proposes as the truth will be laid out for anyone to understand. The choice of which is true will be their own.

I want to make it clear for both Mormons and Christians how divided we are on the essentials of the Christian faith, that is based on the teachings of Jesus Christ and His Apostles. My intent is not to make Mormons angry (it may be unavoidable) but to have them understand the basic differences and why we do not accept their religion as authentic Christianity. I will only quote from their officials; their president’s, prophet's and apostles.

Why the Mormon Church is not the TRUE church Jesus Christ started

www.letusreason.org

We will concentrate on only three things: 1) The nature of God. 2) Jesus Christ, and 3) the way of Salvation. With their own quotes next to the Bible and the explanations of the text it will be proven they have a very different message than the Christian church does from the Bible. A message that is not compatible at all with Jesus Christ, nor with the apostles.

1) The Nature of God


Mormons teach there are many Gods and that man himself can become a god. Mormon teaching- “Question- Are there more Gods than one? Answer- Yes, many. 1 Cor 8:5” (Catechism, by Elder John Jaques, chapter 4, page 13.)

The Bible teaches there is only ONE true God who eternally exists before anything was made and that all other gods are false.


MORMONISM -“You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you” (Founder and Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith, The Journal of Discourses, Vol. VI, page 4)

Their own prophet taught that men who are created by God can become God. Of course their concept of God is not the same as the bible because the Bible teaches God always existed as God, does not change, so no creature created by him can become Him.

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens ( Founder and Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844, The Journal of Discourses, Vol. VI, page 3


“...He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did...” (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 305-306).


The Bible- “Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man (Romans 1:22-23)

They are teaching that God was a man “as we are now” and then achieved his exalted rank. So God the Father was not always the Father, but became the Father (see John 17)

“Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. (Second President and Prophet Brigham Young, April 9, 1852, recorded in The Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, page 50).

“As man is, god once was; as God is, man may become.”(Lorenzo Snow the fifth President of the Church, LDS Church News, Jan. 16, 1983, p. 14)


“In the Heaven where our spirits were born, there are many Gods, each one of whom has his own wife or wives which were given to him previous to his redemption, while yet in his mortal state” (The Seer, by Apostle Orson Pratt, Vol. 1, March 1853, No. 3, page 37)

“The Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth” (“Book of Abraham,”4:1, in The Pearl of Great Price, by the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 38.

“The head God called together the Gods and sat in grand council to bring forth the world.”

“I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of deity, it has been on the plurality of Gods…the doctrine of a plurality of Gods is as prominent in the Bible as any other doctrine.” (founder J. Smith History of the church Vol.6 pp.308,474)

The founder Smith was so convinced of his Godhood that he declared “My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will TAKE HIS PLACE, and thereby become EXALTED MYSELF.” (LDS “Founder” and “Prophet” Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 4, 1844, emphasis added)

“In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it” (sermon by Founder and Prophet Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844, recorded in The Journal of Discourses, Vol. VI, page 5)

Joseph Smith said “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man.” “…I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form- like yourselves, in all the person, image and very form as a man…” (founder Joseph Smith history of the Church vol.6 p.305 also teachings of the prophet J.Smith p.345)

“It [Mormonism] is the only system of religion known in heaven or on earth that can EXALT A MAN TO THE GODHEAD, and this it will do to all those who embrace its laws and faithfully observe its precepts.” (LDS “Prophet” and second president Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, p. 251, 1863)

Spencer W. Kimball, the twelfth president of the church stated: “Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. 1 suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. There seems to be plenty of space out there in the universe. And the Lord has proved that he knows how to do it. 1 think he could make, or probably have us help make, worlds for all of us, for every one of us 225,000” (The Ensign, p. 80, Nov. 1975).

Brigham Young the second president of the church, “How many Gods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were no Gods and worlds…”(Brigham Young Journal of Discourses, vol. 7 p.333).

What Mormon can believe in only one God? If they did, they would go against their founder, the prophets, presidents, apostles and all the teachings in their church.They would not have the testimony of their founder Joseph Smith being a prophet.

The Bible- Isaiah 44:6 “Beside Me there is no God”


Psalm 90:2 “Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God”


Deuteronomy 33:27 “The eternal God”


Deuteronomy 6:4 “our God is one LORD”


Deuteronomy 4:35,39 “Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. v.39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.”


Isaiah 44:6, 8 “Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.


Isaiah 45:5 “I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside Me”


Isaiah 45:18 “For thus says the Lord, Who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord, and there is no other.”


Isaiah 45:21 “and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.

God says that he alone is God, not just over this world but in all things He alone created. He is the Eternal One (“I AM”, Exodus 3:14). No one could or ever will be able to become deity or God.


Psalm 86:10 “For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.


I Chronicles 17:26 “Thou alone art God”


2 Samuel 7:22 “O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee”


1 Kings 8:60 “the LORD is God, and that there is none else.
ISAIAH 46:9 “For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.”


This means that none become God like the gods before them


John 17:3 “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent”


1 Timothy 2:5 “ For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.


2) Jesus


This brings us to the next Mormon distinctive that differs from orthodox Christianity – the Jesus of Mormonism. Mormon theology widely differs from Christianity on this subject, they teach that a “Heavenly Father” and “Heavenly Mother” begat spirits, Jesus was born in heaven with many other spirit brothers-including Lucifer. The Bible does not teach of a mother (or Father and son as a family) but the Mormon church does.


“This doctrine that there is a Mother in Heaven was affirmed in plainness by the First Presidency of the Church (Mormon Doctrine, Apostle McConkie 1979, page 516)

Milton R. Hunter, who served in the First Council of the Seventy, confirms: “The stupendous truth of the existence of a Heavenly Mother, as well as a Heavenly Father, became established facts in Mormon theology” (The Gospel Through the Ages, 1958, p.98).

Their own president should settle the matter-Hinckley was asked on a prime-time Australian TV broadcast if his church taught that God the Father has a wife, he replied, “I don't know, but I suppose so. As we have a Father I assume we have a mother.” Pressed by interviewer David Ransom, Hinckley acknowledged: “Yes. Well we...Yes, we have a mother in heaven” (From a transcript of the 9 November 1997 Compass TV program, Australian Broadcast Company president Hinckley)


“In the pre-mortal spirit life Jesus, Lucifer, and all of us were the spirit children of God and His wives” (Gospel Through the Ages, pp. 15, 93-99; Journal of Discourses, Vol. XI, p. 122). Apostle Bruce McConkie wrote, “The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129.) This agrees with Joseph F. Smith, sixth president of the LDS Church, “Among the spirit children of Elohim, the first-born was and is Jehovah, or Jesus Christ, to whom all others are juniors” (Gospel Doctrine, p. 70).

According to Joseph F. Smith, sixth president of the LDS Church, “Among the spirit children of Elohim, the first-born was and is Jehovah, or Jesus Christ, to whom all others are juniors,” (Gospel Doctrine, p. 70). Joseph F. Smith, Jr., made this plain in his book,: “The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit”( Religious Truths Defined, page 44)

In the book of Mormon, Alma 7:10 Jesus was born at Jerusalem. In Micah 5:2; Luke 2:4 the Bible states it was Bethlehem. The Mormon’s argument is that “Jerusalem” refers to the general vicinity, but in I Nephi 1:3 it is called a “city.” Bethlehem and Jerusalem are two different cities according to the Bible. So they have a Jesus also born in a different city.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:21-23 teaches that, “Christ, the Firstborn, was the mightiest of all the spirit children of the Father.” Joseph F. Smith the sixth prophet of the LDS Church said this of Jesus, “Among the spirit children of Elohim, the first-born was and is Jehovah, or Jesus Christ, to whom all others are juniors,” (Gospel Doctrine, p. 70).

The Mormons Jesus is created, the Bibles Jesus is the creator. Jesus cannot be both created and non- created, the brother of the devil and the creator of the Devil. He is either one or the other.


The Bible- Tells all those from the time of Jesus onward to our day who Jesus ACTUALLY is- 1 Timothy 3:16 tells us “God was manifested in the flesh.” This goes along with various other passages such as Romans 9:5 “According to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen

In Hebrews 1:10 The Father speaking of the Son, “And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning has laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of your hands... and they shall be changed: but thou art the same” (quoting Psalm 102:25).


John 1:3 “All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.”


Colossians 1:16-17 “For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth,


Revelation 1:7-8 “Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

In conclusion on this topic. What kind of God became flesh? For the Mormons- none. Jesus is an angel that became a man, and was exalted to become a God.


The Bible- “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines.” (Hebrews 13:8-9)

The Jesus of Mormonism is not the Jesus of the Bible. They cannot be both created and non- created.


3) The Gospel


Now we come the most important part of this article. I’m speaking the truth in love, there is nothing more that I would desire than to see Mormons understand the gospel that is the Bible.

Galatians 1:8-9: ”But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.”

Paul states in 2 Corinthians11:3-4 “But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus (that’s what Mormons have) whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit (that’s what Mormons have) which you have not received, or a different gospel (that’s what Mormons have) which you have not accepted-- you may well put up with it!”


Mormonism


“The Sectarian Dogma of justification by Faith alone has exercised an influence for evil since the early days of Christianity” (The Articles of Faith, by Apostle James E. Talmage, 1899 edition, page 120. In his 1925 edition of The Articles of Faith, on page 479, he calls “justification by faith alone” “this pernicious doctrine.”)

“As with the proposal of Lucifer in the preexistence to save all mankind, so with the doctrine of salvation by grace alone, without works, as it is taught in modern Christendom -- both concepts are false. There is no salvation in either of them. They both come from the same source; they are not of God” (What Think Ye of Salvation by Grace p. 49; Robert Millet, p. 73)

Joseph Fielding Smith, the tenth prophet, explained “Our Eternal Father would have every soul saved if that were feasible. Salvation, however, is based on merit and obedience to divine law and therefore is only obtained through compliance with divine commandments” (Nov. 1965, p. 962).

George Q. Cannon speaking of Joseph Smith “If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him, if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him” (George Q. Cannon, 1988 Melchezedik guide, p.142)


2 Nephi 25:23 by grace we are saved, after all we can do.”

“Therefore, acting alone, the grace of Christ is not sufficient for salvation. The works of man -- the ordinances of salvation, the deeds of service and acts of charity and mercy -- are necessary for salvation...” (By Grace Are We Saved: The necessity of God's grace in addition to man's good works, 1989 ed., p. 70)

Robert. Millet is the one who is going around in discussion with Greg Johnson telling people that we can get along and that believe the same thing. Here he calls being saved by faith through grace a doctrine of the Devil. “As with the proposal of Lucifer in the preexistence to save all mankind, so with the doctrine of salvation by grace alone, without works, as it is taught in modern Christendom -- both concepts are false. There is no salvation in either of them. They both come from the same source; they are not of God’ (What Think Ye of Salvation by Grace p. 49; cf. Robert Millet, p. 73).

Marion Romney (LDS First Presidency) said, “This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life” (Conference Report, April, 1961, pg. 119).


“So hear it all ye ends of the earth; if you ever enter into the kingdom of God, it is because Joseph Smith let you go there. This will apply to Jews and Gentiles, to the bond and free; to friends and foes; no man or woman in this generation will get a resurrection and be crowned without Joseph saying so. (Second president Brigham Young, Conference held on October 8, 1854)


The Bible -


“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast” (Ephesians 2:4–9).

“being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus” (Rom. 3:24). V.28 “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law”


“But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things [but] loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them [but] dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith” (Philippians 3:7–9).


“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life” (Titus 3:5–7).

The Bible speaks of the grace of God through faith to be saved- there is no OTHER way.

As Robert Millet stated “...if everything we teach and believe is in the Bible, we wouldn't have needed a Joseph Smith, a Book of Mormon, a Doctrines and Covenants or a restoration!” (43 minute video, Source: http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/49068/6036%20)

Their spokesman for Church Public Affairs believes that the Bible is insufficient, and they defend this position today- nothing has changed.

The Bible-Jesus said in Jn.17:8 “I have given them your words you have given me.”

Jesus said “my sheep hear my voice, they will flee from the voice of stranger.”

John 8 “He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”


The whole Old Testament testifies that there is only one God who made everything that exists. The whole New Testament testifies that Jesus Christ is that God who came in human flesh. No matter how one tries to reform or adjust Mormon doctrine it does not make it Christian doctrine. Softening the Mormon position on these 3 points does not make it authentic and can only bring into question anyone’s honesty in their motives. If the concept of many gods is not abandoned, if the belief that Jesus is a spirit creature is not abandoned then the gospel that centers on Jesus Christ cannot be the true gospel. And if it is not the true authentic one, then it cannot save no matter how sincere a person is.

 

[ninja007]

Lucifer’s Fall in Heaven, Mans Exaltation on Earth​

Jesus, Lucifer and you were all brothers in your pre-existence. You may not believe this and you certainly won’t find this in the pages of the Bible, but this is what Mormonism teaches. Of course they want to distance themselves from such obvious erroneous statements, but this can be proven by their own quotes. This teaching has been part of Mormonism from the time of Joseph Smith and has not changed. Because of teachings like these, their unorthodox theological views on Christ, the Father and man they will continue to receive criticism from Biblical Christians.

According to Mormonism each brother presented a plan to win the ability to offer salvation. Lucifer wanted his plan of salvation to be used, but was rejected and thrown out of heaven. They claim Jesus came forth with the “better” plan and his was accepted. But in practice it is Lucifer’s doctrine they use; that one can become like God. Jesus never taught men can become a god for the simple reason there was only one true God, He would know- He was God. According to Mormonism it was his plan that Adam and Eve accepted (the first spirit children to become human), it is his plan the Mormon’s use as model for their progression to exaltation.

Mormons use the Bible claiming their interpretations are correct and a Christians is not. However, when it comes to understanding Scripture it often interprets itself by the support of other Scripture. Without a hermeneutical principle, one can make a doctrine from any single passage such as ie. John 10, where Jesus said, “ye are gods.” One must have the teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit to be lead into truth.

Joseph Fielding Smith's Gospel Doctrine, on page 371 stated that; “The devil knows the Father much better than we. Lucifer, the son of the morning, knows Jesus Christ, the Son of God, much better than we; but in him it is not and will not redound to eternal life; for knowing, he yet rebels; knowing, he is yet disobedient; he will not receive the truth; he will not abide in the truth; hence he is perdition, and there is no salvation for him.”​

Here is the one the Bible calls a liar and has NO TRUTH in him, the Father of LIES (John 8:44) and the Mormons statement is that the devil knows Jesus better then they do. Unfortunately, they may be closer to the truth on this than they may think.

Mormon Apostle Parley P. Pratt's states, “God, angels, and men are all of the same species, one race, one great family...” (Key to the Science of Theology, 1978 ed., pg. 21). Thus we are all brothers, of both Jesus and Lucifer and they are the same as God. Think about what he has stated. If Lucifer and Jesus are are spirits created by God (angels) and Both God and men are all included as the same species then there really is no difference in any of us. man is God so are spirits. This is why we conclude Mormonism is confused.

Joseph F. Smith the sixth prophet of the LDS Church said of their Jesus, “Among the spirit children of Elohim, the first-born was and is Jehovah, or Jesus Christ, to whom all others are juniors” (Gospel Doctrine, p. 70). Mormons believe that Jesus Christ, Lucifer, and all of us were spirit children of God in the pre-mortal world (Mormon Doctrine, p. 278). Jesus is called “the First Spirit Child born to God the Father in Preexistence” (Ibid. p.28).


“In the pre-mortal spirit life Jesus, Lucifer, and all of us were the spirit children of God and His wives” (Gospel Through the Ages, pp. 15, 93-99; Journal of Discourses, Vol. XI, p. 122). That is wive.


“Jesus is Gods firstborn son Lucifer is the 2nd born on down to you and I and Jesus is our elder brother.”(The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p.33) “..That Lucifer, the son of the morning, is our elder brother and the brother of Jesus Christ.” (B. McConkie, Mormon doctrine p.163-164) Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and you are part of their spirit family in heaven. Apostle Bruce R. McConkie wrote in Mormon Doctrine, The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (p. 129). So this makes Jesus is the Devils older brother, but we too are in the same family as the devils younger brothers. McConkie explains, “Since all men are the personal spirit children of the Father, and since Christ was the firstborn spirit offspring, it follows that he is the Elder Brother of all men” (Mormon Doctrine, p.214). [Emp. Mine]

The twelfth President of the Mormon church, Spencer W. Kimball wrote, “Long before you were born a program was developed by your creators ... The principal personalities in this great drama were a Father Elohim, perfect in wisdom, judgment, and person, and two sons, Lucifer and Jehovah.” (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, pp. 32-33 )

The former president of the Mormon church stated, “on the temple's pinnacles and on the high mountain, a momentous contest took place between two brothers, Jehovah and Lucifer, sons of Elohim.” (Spencer W. Kimball, Conference Report, April 1964, P.95 also Faith Precedes the Miracle, p.87)

“The appointment of Jesus to be savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer…the spirit brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the savior of mankind” (the Gospel throughout the Ages p.15)

How can Mormonism teach Jesus and Lucifer are brothers and claim to believe in the Jesus of the Bible? Mormonism can say this because they do not believe the Bible. John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16,17; and Hebrews 1:1-2,10 all state it was through Jesus ALL things were created? Rom 9:5 according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen” in other words he always was God, he did not become a god as other gods did before him.

According to the Bible Lucifer is a creation of Jesus, he can't be His spirit or our spirit brother, the Bible affirms Jesus as the God over ALL creation. Therefore neither Lucifer nor we are in the same class, species, family, we are not spirit brethren.

Madame Blavatsky of the Occult religion of Theosophy called Christ the brother of Satan. Is it a coincidence that Joseph Smith taught the same thing?

The Bid for Salvation​

According to Mormonism, “We needed a Savior to pay for our sins and teach us how to return to our Heavenly Father. Our Father said, “Whom shall I send?” (Abraham 3:27). Two of our brothers offered to help. Our oldest brother, Jesus Christ, who was then called Jehovah, said, “Here am I, send me” (Abraham 3:27)... Satan, who was called Lucifer, also came, saying, “Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor” (Moses 4:1).

Mormon leaders taught that aeons ago the time came to present a salvation plan for those of God's children who would eventually advance to a mortal state. Two of Elohim's sons, Jehovah (the pre-incarnate Christ) and Lucifer, presented their respective salvation plans for mortal man. According to Mormon President Harold B. Lee: “... Lucifer, a son of God in the spirit world before the earth was formed, proposed a plan under which mortals would be saved without glory and honor of God. The plan of our Savior, Jehovah, was to give to each the right to choose for himself the course he would travel to earth life and all was to be done to the honor and glory of God our heavenly father” (Stand Ye In Holy Places, p.219). [Emp. Mine]

The Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price claim that the heavens and earth were created by a council of Gods. Since we could not progress further in heaven, Heavenly Father called a Grand Council together to present his plan for mans progression (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 348, 349, 365). Mormonism teaches that God proposed a plan for mans progression. For us to come to earth from heaven receive physical bodies to learn. (Abraham 3:24-26, Doctrine and Covenants 29:39.)

Joseph Smith tells us “The head God brought forth the Gods in the grand council… The head God called together the Gods and sat in grand council to bring forth the world. The grand counsellors sat at the head in yonder heavens, and contemplated the creation of the worlds which were created at that time…. The contention in heaven was--Jesus said there would be certain souls that would not be saved; and the Devil said he could save them all, and laid his plans before the grand council, who gave their vote in favour of Jesus Christ. So the Devil rose up in rebellion against God, and was cast down, with all who put up their heads for him” (Joseph Smith, King Follett Discourse).

“…the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was…” (Doctrine and Covenants 121:32). “In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 5). Smith, Mormonism’s founder said “In all the congregations when I have preached on the subject of the deity, it has been the plurality of Gods” (J. Smith History of the church vol.6 pp.308, 474)

“Thus when the Father presented his own plan in the pre-existent council, he asked for volunteers from whom he could choose a Redeemer to be born into mortality as the Son of God. Lucifer offered to become the Son of God on condition that the terms of the Father's plan were modified to deny men their agency and to heap inordinate reward upon the one working out the redemption. Christ, on the other hand, accepted the Father's plan in full, saying, “Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.” Our Lord was then foreordained to a mission which in due course he fulfilled, which mission enabled him to make salvation available to all men. (Moses 4:1-4; Abraham 3:22-28.)

“When the great council was held in heaven, in which all of us were involved, the Father presented his plan for peopling the earth and for the salvation of men.


“Lucifer wanted to amend the plan. He proposed to destroy the agency of men and to save all mankind, that not one soul would be lost. This he would accomplish through outright force and coercion, denying all persons the right of choice.”
“The contention in heaven was...Jesus said there would be certain souls that would not be saved; and the Devil said he could save them all, and laid his plans before the grand council, who gave their vote in favour of Jesus Christ. So the Devil rose up in rebellion against God, and was cast down, with all who put up their heads for him” (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 8.) [Emp. Mine]

So they voted on who had the better plan? Of course none of this is to be found in the Bible, its attributed to a plain and precious promise that is missing. Somehow God neglected to tell us these nuggets that are necessary for our progression to be gods, which Mormons call salvation. The fact that they demote Jesus to a spirit who submits a plan that the gods will decide seems to have the stuff of fables in it.


“One of the Father's spirit sons was to be chosen to create the earth and redeem its inhabitants. When the


Father, Elohim, inquired, “Whom shall I send?” there were two who volunteered to go. Because the Father selected the first, the second became angry and did not keep his first estate; and in his rebellion there were many who followed after him. These facts, only, Abraham records; and statements from other scriptures are necessary to fill in the details. (Hyrum L. Andrus, Doctrinal Commentary on The Pearl of Great Price, p. 107, 1967).

“The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer. ...this spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind” (The Gospel Through The Ages, M. R. Hunter).

Lucifer may be desperate, but not to become a savior, a destroyer would be more accurate. What I find interesting is that where the Bible is silent the Mormon prophets are more than willing to speak.

President George Q. Cannon said, “He was our brother, sitting side by side with our Redeemer, having equal opportunities with him. But he rebelled. He turned against the Father because he could not have his own way.”

John A. Widtsoe comments, “It is learned that Lucifer strove to gain the birthright of his Elder Brother, Jesus the Christ and became Satan, the enemy of God” (Evidences and Reconciliations, p.209).

Jesus and Lucifer are not a heavenly Jacob and Esau. This is a complete denial of the uniqueness of the Son of God. Jesus is the name given to him when He was born; He is unknown as Jesus before his birth. He is the ONLY Son of God, and again being a Son does not mean offspring, but one who is unique, having a special relationship to the Father that no other enjoys. The apostle John saw the Son and in Rev 1:17-18 Jesus said to him “ I am the First and the Last.”

Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., wrote, “We learn from the scriptures that Lucifer -- once a son of the morning, who exercised authority in the presence of God before the foundations of this earth were laid -- rebelled against the plan of salvation and against Jesus Christ who was chosen to be the Savior of the world and who is spoken of as the 'Lamb slain from the foundation of the world”(Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.2, p.218-219).​

It is true that Lucifer was not always sinful and rebelled but the same way Mormonism teaches. What is interesting that he quotes the Scripture but has no understanding what this actually means. 1 Pet. 1:20 “He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world.” This in no way has the connotation of being chosen as in having a better plan than another. This was before the foundation of the world, according to the Bible the first of God creation was the heaven and the earth, the plan was formed for the atonement, before anything was created, none but God were involved. “[Before the foundation of the world] That is, from eternity. It was before man was formed; before the earth was made; before any of the material universe was brought into being; before the angels were created” (Barnes' Notes). In the mind of God this was decided without any counsel from any other creature. Of course Mormonism believes God himself is a creature so they cannot arrive at the correct Biblical conclusion.

“Lucifer, our elder brother who desired the glory for himself, stood up and proposed his own plan. (Ensign, official Church magazine, December, 1980, pp.3-5.)

How could Lucifer have a plan of salvation, when did God take counsel with any of the angels on this? Isa. 40:13-14: “Who has directed the Spirit of the LORD, or as His counselor has taught Him? With whom did He take counsel, and who instructed Him, and taught Him in the path of justice? Who taught Him knowledge, and showed Him the way of understanding?” The answer is NO ONE. God does not counsel with angels nor anything created to accomplish his decrees. God does not lack knowledge; He is not like man that needs to learn. Romans 11:34: “For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counselor?” The answer is NO ONE.

Apostle James Talmage's detailed explanation of the primeval council of the Gods. (Abraham 3:23-28 Pearl of Great Price) Talmage in his book, “Jesus the Christ,” on Pages 132 and 133, discusses the council that is supposed to have taken place concerning “Free Agency” and the attack on it by Lucifer. He states that Christ may not have remembered the part He had taken in the great council of the “Gods” where the Firstborn Son's plan was chosen and Lucifer, the rebellious and rejected son's plan was refused.( “Jesus the Christ,” pp. 132 - 133)

Why did he not remember? Because his spirit was compressed according to Mormon teaching.


“Satan's proposal of compulsion was rejected by the Father, and Lucifer `was angry, and kept not his first estate; and many followed after him' (Abraham 3:28) [Mormon book, The Pearl of Great Price]

According to Mormon theology, Lucifer and those spirits who fought with him were cast to earth without bodies and became the devil and his demons. Those others who were less than valiant became the black race and those who fought valiantly became the “white and delightsome” race.

In the Bible God says of Lucifer Ezekiel 28:15: “You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you.” Was his iniquity the offer of salvation that was not pleasing to the council? No, the Bible tells us “How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High” (Isa 14:12-14). Five “I wills; the asserting of self, and the most serious, “I will be like the Most High.”

In Mormon theology the idea of telling Eve she will be like God was not a serious sin (in fact it was a blessing) and did not result in a sinful nature being passed down to all humanity. He was only offering a shortcut (as Mormon missionaries have told me). But the Bible says that wanting to be God instigated the fall of Lucifer in heaven and made him become the accuser. The Mormon church hides the truth from their people and then makes a fantasy story reinterpreting the events of the Bible to suit their own prophets words.

Milton R. Hunter, a member of the Mormon First Council of the Seventy (a Mormon General Authority), wrote, “The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer, son of the morning. Haughty, ambitious, and covetous of power and glory, this spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind” (The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15).

The Bible does not say he wanted to be the savior, he wanted to be God and worshipped. This is the very doctrine that they are delivering to their people.


According to Mormonism what did Lucifer propose that made him fall?


Here is the greatest difference -- Mormonism substitutes works for grace instead of works springing from grace through faith as the Bible teaches. “Therefore, acting alone, the grace of Christ is not sufficient for salvation. The works of man -- the ordinances of salvation, the deeds of service and acts of charity and mercy -- are necessary for salvation...” (By Grace Are We Saved: The necessity of God's grace in addition to man's good works, 1989 ed., p. 70)


“The works of man -- the ordinances of salvation, the deeds of service and acts of charity and mercy -- are necessary for salvation...,” “Salvation by grace alone and without works … is akin to what Lucifer proposed in preexistence.”


“As with the proposal of Lucifer in the preexistence to save all mankind, so with the doctrine of salvation by grace alone, without works, as it is taught in modern Christendom -- both concepts are false. There is no salvation in either of them. They both come from the same source; they are not of God” (What Think Ye of Salvation by Grace p. 49; cf. Robert Millet, p. 73)

Salvation is not by grace. Apostle Bruce R. McConkie expounded on this, “Salvation by grace alone and without works as it is taught in large segments of Christendom today, is akin to what Lucifer proposed in preexistence -- that he would save all mankind and one soul should not be lost.


Is it Lucifer that offered salvation by grace, or is it God. The Bibles position is God offered us grace through His Son and this proves that Mormons do not hold to the Bible being inspired, in fact they are calling God who wrote the Scripture through the apostle Paul and others liars.

Paul says, “the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God”

(Acts 20:24). Eph 2:8-10 “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast”

“being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus” (Rom. 3:24). V.28 “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law”

Titus 3:5: “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us.”

Acts 18:27 “and when he arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace”

Rom 6 “for you are not under law but under grace.” “And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace” (Rom 11:6). But the Mormon church says there must be works to earn salvation or one cannot be saved. While Christian teaching is that works spring because of our salvation.

Jesus said to the thief on the cross (who repented) today you will be with me in paradise (Luke 23:43). This thief was neither baptized nor did any works to earn his salvation, he simply believed and was promised to be with Jesus.

Any religion that does not recognize the grace of God by the cross of Christ cannot call themselves Christian. We are redeemed “with the precious blood of Christ” (1 Peter 1:18-19), His work for us on the cross which makes salvation BY GOD’S GRACE. Yet, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31) is rejected by the Mormon Church.

The fact that Mormonism attributes to Lucifer the doctrine of grace and then has man work for their salvation with the goal of becoming gods shows their animosity toward the revelation God has given His Church since its inception.

The only one who was not God that wanted to be God was a spirit named Lucifer. It was Lucifer who rejected monotheism (the belief in one God) and introduced polytheism (belief in many gods). He began this by first saying He wanted to be like the most high, striving to be another god other in competition with the one true God in heaven. He brought this lie to Earth through a confrontation with Eve saying you will be like God, offering her godhood. Adam and Eve learned the knowledge of evil from Satan not exaltation. When she had Adam fall with her Satan then became “the god (ruler over) of this world” (2 Cor 4:4) and he has continually been feeding this lie in various ways throughout the centuries. The most mileage he has got out of it is through religion, promoting concepts of polytheism, telling people to discover ones own inherent Godhood. Satan and his ministers can and often quote the Bible. But they twist Scripture’s meaning and their application is false. When one misuses the Bible like this they become a victim to the Father of lies. They can become a follower of false gods, even believing they are one them self. One day Satan will have his influence through the man of sin, the son of perdition, “who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God” (2 Thess. 2:3-4)

Who is God to Mormons: LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie in his book Mormon Doctrine, under the section Plurality of Gods taught: “a plurality of Gods exists. To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these three are the only Gods we worship. But in addition there is an infinite number of holy personages, drawn from worlds without number, who have passed on to exaltation and are thus gods,” (pp. 576-77; see also pp. 321-22). [Emp. Mine]

Notice that apostle McConkie said gods, in the plural-- not disagreeing with his founder Joseph Smith.

LDS firmly believes in man attaining their own godhood, "To this end God created man to live in mortality and endowed him with the potential to perpetrate the race, to subdue the earth, to perfect himself and to become God, omniscient and omnipotent" (The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 2). [Emp. Mine]

In a speech Spencer W. Kimball, the twelfth president of the church, made some revealing comments which were broadcast to those serving in the priesthood: “Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. 1 suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. There seems to be plenty of space out there in the universe. And the Lord has proved that he knows how to do it. 1 think he could make, or probably have us help make, worlds for all of us, for every one of us 225,000” (The Ensign, p. 80, Nov. 1975)

The Mormons have more God’s than Hinduism who have limited themselves to 300 million. Mormons have trillions. Anymore than one is more than the Bible says exist, therefore Mormonism cannot be teaching what God has spoken.​

Brigham Young surmised, “How many Gods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were no Gods and worlds…”(Brigham Young Journal of Discourses, vol. 7 p.333). Brigham Young also stated “The Lord created you and me for the purpose of becoming God like himself; We are created . . . to become Gods like unto our Father in heaven” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, page 93) [Emp. Mine]

“For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords” (Deut. 10: 17) For the Lamb “is Lord of lords and King of kings” (Rev. 17:14).

There is not a God over each world, nor is there numerous Gods that decided the plan for mankind. If the Jesus you have is a created being, either on earth or in heaven, an offspring of another god you have another Jesus (2 Cor.11:3-4), you have received another gospel. Which Jesus do you have? This is serious; every Mormon needs to believe Jesus’ words in the Bible not accept what anyone has told them that would lead them to another Jesus.

“But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. “You search the Scriptures (the Bible), for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. “But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life” (John 5:38-40). Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, the life…”

Jesus said: “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. “He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me” (John 14:23-24).The words of eternal life are found in the Bible.

 

[Clyde 154]

Paul does teach that "flesh and blood" cannot inherit the kingdom of God. What you need to understand is that a resurrected being does not have blood running in their veins. The term "flesh and blood" refers to mortal man. Mortal man has blood which sustains its life. Immortal man does not have blood. However, immortal man does retain flesh. We know this by the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Luke 24:36-43
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Here we see that the resurrected immortal Jesus has a body of flesh and bones. He didn't have blood but he did have flesh and bones. At his second coming, there will be those whose mortal bodies with blood will be changed in the twinkling of an eye and they will be changed from mortal to immortal beings and not have blood anymore. But they will have immortal bodies like Jesus has which are made up of flesh and bones.

When man resurrects they will receive the same resurrection as our Lord Jesus and receive a body of flesh and bones but with no blood. The prophet Job understood this concept and taught:

Job 19:25-26
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

You can cut and paste 99% of the content of the Holy Bible..........and it does not make 1 Cor. 15:50-57 a lie.

Again.......when you attempt to twist the scriptures to make one section contradict another you are not rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Tim. 2:15) The text is clear and unambiguous (1 Cor. 15:50-57). All scripture is inspired by the same Holy Spirit of Truth (2 Tim. 3:16-17)
Paul does not record the inspired words from the Spirit of Truth..aka, the Holy Spirit......stating that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God? Really?

"Now this I (Paul) say, brethren, that flesh and blood shall not inherit (shall not.......future tense) the Kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption (a clear reference to the human body which was born in corruption....i.e, decay, as compared to the human spirit which is created with eternity in mind). BEHOLD, I SHEW YE A MYSTERTY; we shall not all sleep (a reference to death), BUT WE WILL BE CHANGED, IN A MOMENT, IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE AT THE LAST TRUMP; for the trumpet will shall sound, and dead shall be raised INCORRUPTIBLE, AND WE (the living....as Paul was still living when he recorded this epistle) SHALL BE CHANGED. For the corruptible must put on incorruptible (speaking of the human spirit/soul) and the mortal (fleshly) must put on immortality (spirit)........." -- 1 Cor. 15:50-57.

Paul goes on to declare that it must be so in order to take advantage of the grace granted through Jesus Christ, by which Death is defeated. Now where do the sciptures teach as doctrine that the flesh of all righteous Christians enters heaven.....there was only 1 Jesus Christ who walked in the flesh sin free (incorruptible).......no Christian is promised to be rasied from the dead in physical form as was Jesus. Jesus was in the grave but 3 days.......there was no corruption of the body as promised in prophecy........Jesus was and is the Messiah.........NOT ONE OF HIS BONES was to be broken (John 19:31-36)

 

[onefour1]

According to the Hebrew Bible, the so-called "body" of YHWH is the archangel and the hosts of heaven who bear His divine family Name. YHWH Father is a completely immaterial state of being that manifests power and light in the material world, capable of establishing a degree of order that overcomes entropy and eternal death. God the Father is the causeless cause of consciousness, life, all of the laws of the cosmos, and He is a person only in and through the personhood and identity of His children. Those who are aligned with YHWH's immortal nature and reality, manifest the YHWH state of being, the presence, and eternal life of YHWH, His Name is His divine immortal nature and life. YHWH The Father according to the Hebrew Bible isn't an individual person in the same way that you are a person. YHWH transcends individual, finite personhood and identity. Within the space-time continuum, and in the timeless alpha and omega realms, YHWH is a community of holy spirits i.e. angels that embody and manifest His Name.

This universe began with a singularity or an alpha point. And it will end with another singularity or omega point. YHWH is the Alpha and Omega, including everything in between those two points of being. The aspects of YHWH that surrender to the chaos or sin, perish and are forgotten forever, while those who overcome the chaos and sin inherit The divine and immortal Name of YHWH. They join the family of YHWH, as holy spirits. The armies of heaven.

Chapter and verse please!

 

[onefour1]

d & c is a lie/heretical man made book/teaching- do not go outside of the KJV BIBLE.

It is the revelations of God in these latter-days!

 

[ninja007]

It is the revelations of God in these latter-days!

bible verse?

 

[onefour1]

Why the Mormon Church is not the TRUE church Jesus Christ started?​

Robert Millet is part of the Church Public Affairs (Manager of Outreach and Interfaith Relations)

Millet is the Mormon churches spokesman to try and make peace with Christians, he currently does public tours called dialogues between an Evangelical and Mormon. Millet states, “much of the misunderstanding in modern Christendom stems from a “vocabulary issue” -- the need to educate ourselves as to what our friends mean.” I agree, the meaning of what is said can be different than the words. The meaning can also be more important then the words said. We will consider the LDS church own words and statements; the meaning becomes obvious.

In this article the main differences between true Christianity and what the religion of Mormonism proposes as the truth will be laid out for anyone to understand. The choice of which is true will be their own.

I want to make it clear for both Mormons and Christians how divided we are on the essentials of the Christian faith, that is based on the teachings of Jesus Christ and His Apostles. My intent is not to make Mormons angry (it may be unavoidable) but to have them understand the basic differences and why we do not accept their religion as authentic Christianity. I will only quote from their officials; their president’s, prophet's and apostles.

First off, all who claim to be Christian are part of a vast division of denominations and sects that are not united so when you say the word, "Christianity", what is your particular denomination that you speak of or what sect do you belong to. For a view of all the varying denominations of those who claim to be Christian, see List of Christian Denominations By Number of Members. Ninja007 makes the assumption that all of Christianity are united and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in sitting out there opposed to all the united denominations and sects. Truth is that they are not united and have many varying beliefs between each of the various denominations. So I ask you Ninja007, what is your flavor of Christianity? In other words what is the denomination you profess to believe in and then ask yourself if you think all other Christians are in agreement with you. Tell us. What is your denomination?

Why the Mormon Church is not the TRUE church Jesus Christ started

www.letusreason.org

We will concentrate on only three things: 1) The nature of God. 2) Jesus Christ, and 3) the way of Salvation. With their own quotes next to the Bible and the explanations of the text it will be proven they have a very different message than the Christian church (dont you mean the many varying Christian churches?) does from the Bible. A message that is not compatible at all with Jesus Christ, nor with the apostles.

1) The Nature of God


Mormons teach there are many Gods and that man himself can become a god. Mormon teaching- “Question- Are there more Gods than one? Answer- Yes, many. 1 Cor 8:5” (Catechism, by Elder John Jaques, chapter 4, page 13.)

The Bible teaches there is only ONE true God who eternally exists before anything was made and that all other gods are false.

First off, the bible does have reference to other gods besides the Godhead that we believe rules in the heavens and the earth. First and foremost, God refers to the children of God as gods in Psalms 82:6. Jesus Christ confirms that He made this declaration in John 10.

Psalms 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

John 10:31-36
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Here the Jews take up stones to stone Jesus but he asks them why they believe they should stone him. They reply that because Jesus being a man is making himself God. Jesus points to the law in which they believe and points out that He (Jesus being the God of the Old Testament) said, "Ye are gods". Then Jesus explains that he called those unto whom the word of God came were called gods and reasons that they shouldn't stone him for saying he is the Son of God if their law states that we are all gods.

So when Jesus himself tells us that we are gods, does that mean that he was lying or does that mean that there really are more gods than one? Obviously there are more than one god and these gods are recognized by Jesus himself as being gods. And thus the Bible itself teaches us that there are more gods than just one. Does the Bible teach that man cannot become a god when Jesus tells us that we are already gods? So the question needs to be ask, "What did God mean when he said that he is the one true God and that that there are no other Gods beside him". Paul the Apostle of Jesus Christ tells it best when he said,

1 Corinthians 8:4-6
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Here Paul explains that idols are nothing in the world and are not really even gods. He then goes on to tell us that there are those that are called gods both in heaven and on earth (as there be gods many and lords many). Paul professes that there are other gods which is in line with what Jesus proclaimed about the children of God being gods as mentioned above. This also seems to back the concept of the council of gods that is spoken of in the Bible (see Michael Heiser's, "The Divine Council"). However, when it comes to divine authority over His kingdom and His offspring, God the Father is the ultimate magistrate over all that is his. Since we are the children of God and he created this earth through his Son Jesus Christ, he is, "to us" as Paul would say, the one God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ. All things within his kingdom were created through his Son Jesus Christ who is the second member of the Godhead and is also a God. Though there are three Gods who represent the Godhead, the Father is ultimately in charge and the Son and the Holy Ghost only do what the Father would have them do. So in a sense, the Godhead is made up of three distinct beings who are Gods but represent the Father who is the ultimate God in charge. These three in the Godhead are considered, because of their oneness in purpose with the Father, to be the one true God.

So from all of this we see that there are more than one god but as far as having authority to direct the affairs within the kingdom we live in, we only recognize the one who is the Father of all mankind within his kingdom and who created all things within his kingdom even though he created them through his Son. There is no other God beside the one represented by the Godhead as being God in authority over all his children and kingdom.

MORMONISM -“You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you” (Founder and Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith, The Journal of Discourses, Vol. VI, page 4)

As see from above, Jesus already considered us to be, as the children of God, gods. But we must also learn and seek to become a God like the Father. This is what is implied when Jesus taught,

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Would God give us a commandment that we could never obey? Would he command us to be something that is not within our power to become? Jesus expects us to become perfect just as our Father in heaven is perfect. We, as the offspring of God and we who are made in his very likeness and image, are expected to work toward becoming as perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect.

Acts 17:29
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

We certainly are not the offspring of God in our mortal flesh, so how are we His offspring? Our spirits are his offspring,

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

As the offspring of God we are his spirit children. We are gods in the sense that we are his literal offspring and are expected to become perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect. This doesn't happen simply by coming to this mortal life but those who become the children of Christ and follow after his example and teachings are eligible to later become perfect, even as our Father in heaven is perfect as Jesus commanded.

Their own prophet taught that men who are created by God can become God. Of course their concept of God is not the same as the bible because the Bible teaches God always existed as God, does not change, so no creature created by him can become Him.

We don't interpret the verses you quote to mean that God was God from eternity past. For example,

Psalm 90:2 “Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God”

We interpret this to mean that God was God before the earth was formed. We believe that before this earth life God and his spirit children lived in eternity and not time. Eternity is also known as Everlasting. So we believe the verse is saying that God is God from before this mortal life time in Eternity or Everlasting, through time on this earth, and then back to Everlasting after this earth life. So being God from everlasting to everlasting simply means that he was God before the temporal existence of the earth and is God while we are on earth, and will continue to be God when we go back to everlasting after this temporal existence. We do not believe it to mean that he was God for an infinity past.


Deuteronomy 33:27 “The eternal God”
Yes, God is an eternal being. We also believe that man is eternal as well. We believe that before we were born as the spirit children of God the Father, that we existed as an intelligence without a body. We believe that all intelligence is self existent and was not created or made and neither indeed can be. thus the intelligence of mankind has always existed
Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens ( Founder and Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844, The Journal of Discourses, Vol. VI, page 3


“...He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did...” (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 305-306).

God is a man. He is the Man of Holiness. Jesus is known as the Son of the Man of Holiness or the Son of Man for short. That phrase does not refer to his mother. We were created in the very image and llikeness of God Himself.

The Bible- “Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man (Romans 1:22-23)

God the Father is not believed to ever have been a fallen man but that he was a Savior on his own earth. Thus he never was a fallen man or corruptible man as the verse above states.

They are teaching that God was a man “as we are now” and then achieved his exalted rank. So God the Father was not always the Father, but became the Father (see John 17)

“Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. (Second President and Prophet Brigham Young, April 9, 1852, recorded in The Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, page 50).

All the posterity of Adam that have fallen are subject to error in this life. Just because one of our prophets state something doesn't mean that it is accepted as doctrine in the church. Other prophets have not believed that Adam came to this earth from another planet but that his body was created from the dust of the earth. I personally believe that Adam was created from the dust of the earth and that his wife Eve was created from one of Adam's ribs as stated in the Bible.

“As man is, god once was; as God is, man may become.”(Lorenzo Snow the fifth President of the Church, LDS Church News, Jan. 16, 1983, p. 14)

Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect. If man can become prefect like his Father in heaven, then why is it so difficult to believe that God himself progressed to become who He is?

“In the Heaven where our spirits were born, there are many Gods, each one of whom has his own wife or wives which were given to him previous to his redemption, while yet in his mortal state” (The Seer, by Apostle Orson Pratt, Vol. 1, March 1853, No. 3, page 37)

We believe that families are forever and that man and woman have an eternal purpose not only on this earth but in the heavens as well. Yes, we believe that God has a wife or maybe more than one, we don't know. We believe that we are the offspring of God as Paul believed and that God is the Father of our spirits through his eternal companion wife.

Matthew 19:5-6
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

“The Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth” (“Book of Abraham,”4:1, in The Pearl of Great Price, by the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 38.

“The head God called together the Gods and sat in grand council to bring forth the world.”

“I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of deity, it has been on the plurality of Gods…the doctrine of a plurality of Gods is as prominent in the Bible as any other doctrine.” (founder J. Smith History of the church Vol.6 pp.308,474)

As shown above, Jesus said that we are gods, even children of the Most High. Thus there is a plurality of the gods as shown in the Bible.

The founder Smith was so convinced of his Godhood that he declared “My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will TAKE HIS PLACE, and thereby become EXALTED MYSELF.” (LDS “Founder” and “Prophet” Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 4, 1844, emphasis added)

Again, be ye there perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect.

“In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it” (sermon by Founder and Prophet Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844, recorded in The Journal of Discourses, Vol. VI, page 5)

Joseph Smith said “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man.” “…I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form- like yourselves, in all the person, image and very form as a man…” (founder Joseph Smith history of the Church vol.6 p.305 also teachings of the prophet J.Smith p.345)

“It [Mormonism] is the only system of religion known in heaven or on earth that can EXALT A MAN TO THE GODHEAD, and this it will do to all those who embrace its laws and faithfully observe its precepts.” (LDS “Prophet” and second president Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, p. 251, 1863)

Spencer W. Kimball, the twelfth president of the church stated: “Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. 1 suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. There seems to be plenty of space out there in the universe. And the Lord has proved that he knows how to do it. 1 think he could make, or probably have us help make, worlds for all of us, for every one of us 225,000” (The Ensign, p. 80, Nov. 1975).

Brigham Young the second president of the church, “How many Gods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were no Gods and worlds…”(Brigham Young Journal of Discourses, vol. 7 p.333).

Well again, Jesus taught that we are gods so we already were considered to be gods. Jesus also taught that we should become perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect. If you don't believe these things then you don't believe Jesus or the Bible.

What Mormon can believe in only one God? If they did, they would go against their founder, the prophets, presidents, apostles and all the teachings in their church.They would not have the testimony of their founder Joseph Smith being a prophet.

The Bible- Isaiah 44:6 “Beside Me there is no God”


Psalm 90:2 “Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God”


Deuteronomy 33:27 “The eternal God”


Deuteronomy 6:4 “our God is one LORD”

Yes, as Paul taught, there are gods many and lords many but to us there is but one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ. If mankind progesses to become like God the Father, they may be given their own kingdom and their own children. But to us on this earth, there is but one God as stated above.

Deuteronomy 4:35,39 “Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. v.39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.”

Yes, to us on this earth or anywhere else in God's kingdom, there is but one God who rules in the heavens above. However, as Jesus pointed out, the children of God are considered to be gods and thus there are gods many and lords many. But in his kingdom, God reigns supreme and there is no other God who rules over God's kingdom and his children.

Isaiah 44:6, 8 “Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Yes, to us he is the first and the last and to us there is no other God beside him. We are not to take upon ourselves other God's as the children of God and the subjects of his kingdom. However, there may be other kingdoms where other Gods rule as the first and the last and who rule with no other Gods beside them as well. To say there are no other gods when Jesus himself declared us to be gods only means that God the Father is the ruling God and beside him there is no ruling God in his vast kingdom even though we are gods according to Jesus.

Isaiah 45:5 “I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside Me”


Isaiah 45:18 “For thus says the Lord, Who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord, and there is no other.”


Isaiah 45:21 “and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.

God says that he alone is God, not just over this world but in all things He alone created. He is the Eternal One (“I AM”, Exodus 3:14). No one could or ever will be able to become deity or God.

God never said no one else could ever become diety. He simply taught that for those within his kingdom he was the only God that rules and there was no other God who rules besides him. Clearly Jesus taught that we, God's children, are gods, so in that sense there are other gods but none that rule supreme in the heavens above or in the earth below or in other words, in God's kingdom.

Psalm 86:10 “For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.


I Chronicles 17:26 “Thou alone art God”


2 Samuel 7:22 “O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee”


1 Kings 8:60 “the LORD is God, and that there is none else.
ISAIAH 46:9 “For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.”


This means that none become God like the gods before them

I beg to differ. I believe what it means is that there are no other Gods who hold power in his kingdom beside him. He reigns supreme within his universal kingdom. The question is whether those who become perfect are allowed to have their own kingdom and be as perfect as God is now. This is what the revelations to the Prophet Joseph Smith revealed. That man can become like the Father and go on to have their own kingdoms and through eternal marriage to their wives, they can also have spirit children to people the planets of their own kingdom. Thus becoming perfect even as their Father in Heaven is perfect.

John 17:3 “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent”


1 Timothy 2:5 “ For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

We believe in continuing revelation and that the Bible is not the end all be all to the word of God. This God taught when it was prophesied in Ezekiel 37 that the stick of Judah (the bible) would be joined to the stick of Joseph (the Book of Mormon) and they would become one in our hands. To Moses the Lord taught that there is no end to his words.

Moses 1:3-4
3 And God spake unto Moses, saying: Behold, I am the Lord God Almighty, and Endless is my name; for I am without beginning of days or end of years; and is not this endless?
4 And, behold, thou art my son; wherefore look, and I will show thee the workmanship of mine hands; but not all, for my works are without end, and also my words, for they never cease.

I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and that God revealed to him more about the purpose of man and what lies ahead in the hereafter for those who follow after him and become perfect even as their Father in heaven is perfect.

 

[onefour1]

bible verse?

You probably would require God to quote the Bible before accepting any revelation from Him. Truth is, the entirety of truth does not exist within the Bible. There are still many mysteries regarding God's purposes and his plans for mankind that are not in the Bible or have been removed over time from the Bible.

 

[onefour1]

You can cut and paste 99% of the content of the Holy Bible..........and it does not make 1 Cor. 15:50-57 a lie.

Let me post 1 Corinthians 15:50-57
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all asleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

It is my belief that corruption is the mortal flesh which made up of "flesh and blood". The life of the mortal body is in the blood. The resurrection is the topic of the chapter. The mortal body will put on incorruption and become mortal having the flesh resurrect by receiving its life from the spirit.

Please explain how you understand these verses.

Again.......when you attempt to twist the scriptures to make one section contradict another you are no rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Tim. 2:15) The text is clear and unambiguous (1 Cor. 15:50-57). All scripture is inspired by the same Holy Spirit of Truth (2 Tim. 3:16-17)
Paul does not record the inspired words from the Spirit of Truth..aka, the Holy Spirit......stating that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God? Really?

Nobody said that Paul did not teach that. My point is you cannot look at the phrase, "flesh and blood" individually as "flesh" and "blood". "flesh and blood" is synonymous with mortality or fallen man. Resurrection is the reuniting of the spirit and the body. The resurrection is not reuniting mortal fallen flesh that is sustained by blood but it is changed to be immortal flesh sustained by the immortal spirit.

The corruptible that puts on incorruption is the body. It is the body that dies. Our spirits are already immortal and cannot die. they don't need to made incorruptible or be resurrected. It is the body that is resurrected and becomes incorruptible. It isn't the same corrupted body but it is an incorruptible body. Its life is not in the blood but in the spirit. Thus it is a spiritual body.

"Now this I (Paul) say, brethren, that flesh and blood shall not inherit (shall not.......future tense) the Kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption (a clear reference to the human body which was born in corruption....i.e, decay, as compared to the human spirit which is created with eternity in mind). BEHOLD, I SHEW YE A MYSTERTY; we shall not all sleep (a reference to death), BUT WE WILL BE CHANGED, IN A MOMENT, IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE AT THE LAST TRUMP; for the trumpet will shall sound, and dead shall be raised INCORRUPTIBLE, AND WE (the living....as Paul was still living when he recorded this epistle) SHALL BE CHANGED. For the corruptible must put on incorruptible (speaking of the human spirit/soul) and the mortal (fleshly) must put on immortality (spirit)........." -- 1 Cor. 15:50-57.

It is true that the body was sown in corruption but Paul teaches that it is later raised in incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:42, 53
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The body of man in its mortal state is corruptible. It is the body of man that must put on incorruption.

what do you supposed is raised if it is not the body of mankind? Is the spirit of mankind raised? Jesus went to the spirits of the dead and preached the gospel. They spirits were not dead but alive and were able to hear and receive the gospel (1 Peter 4:6). It is the bodies of the dead spirits that needs to be raised from the dead.

Paul goes on to declare that it must be so in order to take advantage of the grace granted through Jesus Christ, by which Death is defeated. Now where do the sciptures teach as doctrine that the flesh of all righteous Christians enters heaven.....there was only 1 Jesus Christ who walked in the flesh sin free (incorruptible).......no Christian is promised to be rasied from the dead in physical form as was Jesus. Jesus was in the grave but 3 days.......there was no corruption of the body as promised in prophecy........Jesus was and is the Messiah.........NOT ONE OF HIS BONES was to be broken (John 19:31-36)

So you have a concept that only in Christ's resurrection was his body raised but not so with all the rest of us? I've never heard of this before. The gospel teaches that Christ was the first to resurrect but soon after his resurrection the scriptures tell us:

Matthew 27:52-53
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Here we read that it was the bodies of the saints which rose from the graves. It was not speaking of their spirits only. Not exactly sure what your concept of the rest of mankind's resurrection is but it seems quite foreign to what is spoken of in scripture.

Job understood that the resurrection would the rising of his body and tells us that after his body has decayed in the ground he would het see God in the flesh.

Job 19:26
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

 

[Clyde 154]

Let me post 1 Corinthians 15:50-57
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all asleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

It is my belief that corruption is the mortal flesh which made up of "flesh and blood". The life of the mortal body is in the blood. The resurrection is the topic of the chapter. The mortal body will put on incorruption and become mortal having the flesh resurrect by receiving its life from the spirit.

Please explain how you understand these verses.

Nobody said that Paul did not teach that. My point is you cannot look at the phrase, "flesh and blood" individually as "flesh" and "blood". "flesh and blood" is synonymous with mortality or fallen man. Resurrection is the reuniting of the spirit and the body. The resurrection is not reuniting mortal fallen flesh that is sustained by blood but it is changed to be immortal flesh sustained by the immortal spirit.

The corruptible that puts on incorruption is the body. It is the body that dies. Our spirits are already immortal and cannot die. they don't need to made incorruptible or be resurrected. It is the body that is resurrected and becomes incorruptible. It isn't the same corrupted body but it is an incorruptible body. Its life is not in the blood but in the spirit. Thus it is a spiritual body.

It is true that the body was sown in corruption but Paul teaches that it is later raised in incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:42, 53
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The body of man in its mortal state is corruptible. It is the body of man that must put on incorruption.

what do you supposed is raised if it is not the body of mankind? Is the spirit of mankind raised? Jesus went to the spirits of the dead and preached the gospel. They spirits were not dead but alive and were able to hear and receive the gospel (1 Peter 4:6). It is the bodies of the dead spirits that needs to be raised from the dead.

So you have a concept that only in Christ's resurrection was his body raised but not so with all the rest of us? I've never heard of this before. The gospel teaches that Christ was the first to resurrect but soon after his resurrection the scriptures tell us:

Matthew 27:52-53
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Here we read that it was the bodies of the saints which rose from the graves. It was not speaking of their spirits only. Not exactly sure what your concept of the rest of mankind's resurrection is but it seems quite foreign to what is spoken of in scripture.

Job understood that the resurrection would the rising of his body and tells us that after his body has decayed in the ground he would het see God in the flesh.

Job 19:26
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Why pay attention to documented lies when Mormonism is compared to the actual text of the Holy Scriptures? So many lies, so easy to document.


Mormonism.....again? Men will become Gods. I simply consider the documented history of this cult and the fact that it did not come into existence until 1800 years after ALL TRUTH FROM Heaven was revealed to the Apostles of Christ in the 1st century. (John 16:13). The Faith was delivered once to the saints of the 1st century (Jude 3)

Yet Joseph Smith received New Revelations from God..........in the 18th century, and it just happened to mirror the same language and text contained in a middle aged translation of ancient English (KJV) in fact some of the Book of Mormon is a verbatim text from the KJV. Strange that God would use a dead language to instruct New Doctrine instead of using the universal language of the day, Modern English......the way Greek was used in the 1st century to record new revelations from God who would have everyone understand. The Mormon God apparently is not capable of translating Heavenly Text into American English.

Stranger still is the claim that God told Smith that people with BLACK SKIN PIGMENT were dark because God was punishing them, and God declared it ok to have numerous wives........and then God changed His mind when society invoked Laws against such a culture of polygamy

My God never changes..........how about yours?

 

[Red Front]

Why pay attention to documented lies when Mormonism is compared to the actual text of the Holy Scriptures? So many lies, so easy to document.


Mormonism.....again? Men will become Gods. I simply consider the documented history of this cult and the fact that it did not come into existence until 1800 years after ALL TRUTH FROM Heaven was revealed to the Apostles of Christ in the 1st century. (John 16:13). The Faith was delivered once to the saints of the 1st century (Jude 3)

Yet Joseph Smith received New Revelations from God..........in the 18th century, and it just happened to mirror the same language and text contained in a middle aged translation of ancient English (KJV) in fact some of the Book of Mormon is a verbatim text from the KJV. Strange that God would use a dead language to instruct New Doctrine instead of using the universal language of the day, Modern English......the way Greek was used in the 1st century to record new revelations from God who would have everyone understand. The Mormon God apparently is not capable of translating Heavenly Text into American English.

Stranger still is the claim that God told Smith that people with BLACK SKIN PIGMENT were dark because God was punishing them, and God declared it ok to have numerous wives........and then God changed His mind when society invoked Laws against such a culture of polygamy

My God never changes..........how about yours?

Your god is just as mutable as the Mormon's god. Many of your objections can easily be used against your own brand of religion or Christianity. The vast majority of Jews consider your faith an idolatrous, pagan Gentile corruption of their Israelite religion (which is much more original than yours). Your so-called "NT" isn't worth the paper it's printed on for the vast majority of Jews, so you don't have much to stand on when berating Mormons about their religion. Your faith is just as illegitimate as theirs.

As far as human beings becoming gods. The Hebrew bible identifies human beings and angels (heavenly holy spirits) as elohim (mighty ones, powers). The fact that you lack understanding about what the Hebrew bible says on the issue of who and what is within the category of "elohim" doesn't make the Mormons wrong on the issue but it certainly makes you ignorant. The Mormons actually have a more accurate conception of the biblical god and his angels than you do. Evangelicals are the most unbiblical bunch of them all.

 

[ding]

In our progression through eternity and in Jesus' progression through eternity, Jesus as well as all of us are to receive an eternal resurrected body of flesh and bones. If this is important in the eternal progression of things, would not God the Father also have a body of flesh and bones?

Revelation 1:18
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

In this verse we learn that the body of Jesus was once dead but now it is alive forever more. Thus Jesus will retain his immortal body forever and ever. Receiving an immortal resurrected body of flesh and bones is an eternal state with Jesus and will be for all of us on earth. If it is so with Jesus and all of us, would not the Father also have a body of flesh and bones?

Hebrews 1:1-3
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

If the resurrected and glorified Jesus has the brightness of the glory of the Father and is the express image of his person. I would think that God the Father also has a body of flesh and bones the same as Jesus has. Being the express image of the Father would indicate such. In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the prophet Joseph Smith received the following revelation:

Doctrine and Covenants 130:22-23
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.
23 A man may receive the Holy Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not tarry with him.

This I believe is the case with our Heavenly Father. Another revelation to the prophet Joseph Smith states the following:

Doctrine and Covenants 93:33-34
33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;
34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.

Here we believe that the joining of spirit and element can bring us a fulness of joy. For this reason I believe the resurrection of all mankind will occur and the eternal union of our spirits with our immortal bodies will bring us infinite joy. Even the wicked upon this earth will receive the blessing of immortal resurrection. However, those who rebelled in the premortal existence, ie Satan and his followers will be denied forever the opportunity of receiving a resurrected body of flesh and bones. In this way we become more like our Father in Heaven and our Lord Jesus Christ.

We believe that the Holy Ghost must remain a spirit while fulfilling his mission on the earth. We believe he will eventually receive a body of flesh and bones and receive the eternal joy that we all will receive by receiving a body and live immortally with that body just like the rest of us.

I don't believe so.

 

[ding]

Your god is just as mutable as the Mormon's god.

I believe that God is every extant attribute of reality as God is reality. My turn...

Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of socialism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Socialism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership Socialism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Socialists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire big government and use big government to implement their morally relativistic social policies. Socialism is a religion. The religious nature of socialism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

 

[Red Front]

I believe that God is every extant attribute of reality as God is reality. My turn...

Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of socialism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Socialism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership Socialism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Socialists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire big government and use big government to implement their morally relativistic social policies. Socialism is a religion. The religious nature of socialism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

Learn how to write. A paragraph shouldn't be more than six, maybe seven lines at the most. All you did was regurgitate a bunch of right-wing rhetoric and misconceptions about socialism.

 

[ding]

Learn how to write. A paragraph shouldn't be more than six, maybe seven lines at the most. All you did was regurgitate a bunch of right-wing rhetoric and misconceptions about socialism.

No, all I did was state the truth. Here's some more truth...

"A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could." Vladimir Lenin

 

[ding]

Learn how to write. A paragraph shouldn't be more than six, maybe seven lines at the most. All you did was regurgitate a bunch of right-wing rhetoric and misconceptions about socialism.

Here's some more truth too...

"We must know how to combat religion..." Vladimir Lenin