Zone1 Scientist Explains Why He Believes in the Resurrection of Christ

[Paradoxical#1]

No history in the Bible?

Wait........wut?

Ever heard of Biblical Archaeology?

Try again.

Are you really saying that Jesus and his disciples never existed?

Spiderman is from New York and New York exists.

 

[ding]

In all Jesus appeared a dozen different times over forty days to more than 515 individuals after his resurrection. He appeared to women and to men, He appeared to individuals and to groups, He appeared indoors and outdoors, He appeared to people who were skeptics and people who were believers, He appeared to people who were hardhearted and people who were tenderhearted. And He talked with people, He ate with people, He even invited Thomas - the skeptic, the doubter - to put his finger in the nail holes in His hands, put his hand in the spear wound in His side - to see and touch the evidence himself. Then what was Thomas's reaction? To say, "My Lord and my God!" He became convinced by the evidence that Jesus had returned from the dead. And what does history tell us about Thomas? He spent the rest of his life declaring Jesus did return from the dead, He is the Son of God, even to the point of being put to death for his faith in southern India.

 

[Cougarbear]

Spiderman is from New York and New York exists.

Spider-Man exists???

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Spider-Man exists???

We have historical accounts and it is conceded New York exists. Spiderman exists and wants a relationship with you.

 

[ding]

We have historical accounts and it is conceded New York exists. Spiderman exists and wants a relationship with you.

Often times, ignorance is insolent.

 

[Cougarbear]

We have historical accounts and it is conceded New York exists. Spiderman exists and wants a relationship with you.

He only wants a relationship with you in your weird mind. Spiderman, LOL!!!

 

[Paradoxical#1]

He only wants a relationship with you in your weird mind. Spiderman, LOL!!!

I had a vision that Spiderman loved me and wanted me to pass his love on.

 

[Cougarbear]

I had a vision that Spiderman loved me and wanted me to pass his love on.

I’m glad you did. Be sure to share that with your therapist so he can switch your medication.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

I’m glad you did. Be sure to share that with your therapist so he can switch your medication.

You first.

 

[ding]

We have historical accounts and it is conceded New York exists. Spiderman exists and wants a relationship with you.

That's an odd way to refute the historical accounts of Jesus. But if Jesus didn't exist and Jesus didn't rise from the dead, why were there all those testimonies that he did?

 

[Paradoxical#1]

That's an odd way to refute the historical accounts of Jesus. But if Jesus didn't exist and Jesus didn't rise from the dead, why were there all those testimonies that he did?

Give me the testimonies. Give me the name of just one of the 500. Let me know anyone outside of the bible who wrote about seeing Jesus after he died. More people swear they saw Elvis alive after he died than there are those who claim they saw Jesus. You know this. If you don't, you should.

 

[shockedcanadian]

There are stories in the Torah and the New Testament that I find difficult to accept as being true. Sometimes.the Talmud offers some clarity and a different view (in regards to the Old Testament of course),.other times it reinforces my doubts. For me, the rising of Jesus seems to fall into that category as there were only a couple of witnesses. If he rose again at that time, wouldn't he speak to his people,.to the Romans? That would be irrefutable evidence of his divinity. It would probably lead to many removals from power even deaths of Roman leadership for doubting who.he said he was.

 

[ding]

Give me the testimonies. Give me the name of just one of the 500. Let me know anyone outside of the bible who wrote about seeing Jesus after he died. More people swear they saw Elvis alive after he died than there are those who claim they saw Jesus. You know this. If you don't, you should.

The risen Christ appeared to a variety of individuals and groups, with accounts in the Bible describing appearances to at least eight different groups of people over a 40-day period. While the Bible details specific instances, it does not explicitly state that these were the only appearances.

Here's a breakdown of some of the groups Jesus appeared to:

• Mary Magdalene: She was the first person to see the resurrected Jesus.
  
  
• Other women at the tomb: Other women who had come to the tomb also witnessed the risen Christ.
  
  
• Two disciples on the road to Emmaus: Jesus walked and talked with them, revealing himself later.
  
  
• The eleven apostles: They saw Jesus in the upper room and later on a mountain in Galilee.
  
  
• More than 500 brethren: One scripture passage mentions Jesus appearing to over 500 people at once.
  
  
• James, the brother of Jesus: This was a special appearance to his half-brother, who was initially a skeptic.
  
  
• Seven disciples on the Sea of Galilee: Jesus appeared to them while they were fishing.
  
  
• Apostle Paul: Paul himself claims to have seen the risen Christ.

 

[Meriweather]

There are stories in the Torah and the New Testament that I find difficult to accept as being true. Sometimes.the Talmud offers some clarity and a different view (in regards to the Old Testament of course),.other times it reinforces my doubts. For me, the rising of Jesus seems to fall into that category as there were only a couple of witnesses. If he rose again at that time, wouldn't he speak to his people,.to the Romans? That would be irrefutable evidence of his divinity. It would probably lead to many removals from power even deaths of Roman leadership for doubting who.he said he was.

Recall how the parable of Lazarus and the rich man ended (Luke 16): The rich man pleaded with Abraham to send Lazarus back to his brothers so his brothers would not died and end up where he was. Then Abraham said, ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.’”

The Romans were not known for listening to Moses and the prophets...This may be something for all to consider--that knowing the entire story of God and his people may be necessary to persuaded that Jesus rose from the dead. It's difficult to be persuaded by the ending of any story without first knowing its beginning.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

The risen Christ appeared to a variety of individuals and groups, with accounts in the Bible describing appearances to at least eight different groups of people over a 40-day period. While the Bible details specific instances, it does not explicitly state that these were the only appearances.

Here's a breakdown of some of the groups Jesus appeared to:

• Mary Magdalene: She was the first person to see the resurrected Jesus.
  
  
• Other women at the tomb: Other women who had come to the tomb also witnessed the risen Christ.
  
  
• Two disciples on the road to Emmaus: Jesus walked and talked with them, revealing himself later.
  
  
• The eleven apostles: They saw Jesus in the upper room and later on a mountain in Galilee.
  
  
• More than 500 brethren: One scripture passage mentions Jesus appearing to over 500 people at once.
  
  
• James, the brother of Jesus: This was a special appearance to his half-brother, who was initially a skeptic.
  
  
• Seven disciples on the Sea of Galilee: Jesus appeared to them while they were fishing.
  
  
• Apostle Paul: Paul himself claims to have seen the risen Christ.

Reread my post. "By anyone OUTSIDE of the bible accounts." Certainly, a never before seen like someone rising from the dead would be written about by many at that time. Here we have someone rising from the dead, and zombies getting up and walking out of the cemeteries, and no one other than some unknown people 40-90 years later writes about it?

 

[ding]

Recall how the parable of Lazarus and the rich man ended (Luke 16): The rich man pleaded with Abraham to send Lazarus back to his brothers so his brothers would not died and end up where he was. Then Abraham said, ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.’”

The Romans were not known for listening to Moses and the prophets...This may be something for all to consider--that knowing the entire story of God and his people may be necessary to persuaded that Jesus rose from the dead. It's difficult to be persuaded by the ending of any story without first knowing its beginning.

Did you know that the Jewish perception of resurrection was altered by the first Christians based upon what they witnessed from their encounters with the risen Christ?

The Christian Mutation of Second Temple Judaism

Wright’s second and more extensive argument for the historicity of the resurrection appearances stems from several Christian mutations of the Jewish doctrine of resurrection prevalent at the time of Jesus (Second-Temple Judaism). He shows through a study of the New Testament (particularly the Letters of Paul and the Gospel narratives of the resurrection appearances) that Christianity changed the dominant Jewish view of “resurrection” in five major ways:

1. The Jewish picture of resurrection was a return to the same kind of bodily life as the one experienced before death (except in a new world with the righteous). Christian views always entailed transformation into a very different kind of life – incorruptible, glorious, and spiritual while still maintaining embodiment.35 The Christian view is so different from the Jewish one that Paul has to develop a new term to speak about it – “body spiritual” (soma pneumatikon). In 1 Corinthians 15:44-46 he makes every effort to distinguish the Christian doctrine from the Jewish one: “It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body,and there is a spiritual body…..However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.”

2. In Second Temple Judaism, no one was expected to rise from the dead before the initiation of the final age by Yahweh, however Christians claimed that this occurred with Jesus.36

3. No one connected the Messiah to the resurrection or the Jewish doctrine of resurrection to the Messiah prior to Christianity: “There are no traditions about a Messiah being raised to life: most Jews of this period hoped for resurrection, many Jews of this period hoped for a Messiah, but nobody put those two hopes together until the early Christians did so.”37

4. For the Jewish people, the eschatological age was in the future; for Christians the eschatological age had already arrived (and would be completed in the future).38

5. The doctrine of resurrection is central to the earliest writings of Christianity (e.g., all 9 of the early kerygmas), central to the writings of Paul39 and all the Gospel writers,40 and is the interconnecting theme among early Christian doctrines. The doctrine of the resurrection grounds Christology, particularly the doctrine of Christ’s glorification and, in part, the doctrine of Christ’s divinity; it grounds the Christian doctrine of soteriology – “for if the dead are not raised, neither has Christ been raised” (1Cor 15:16); it shows God’s vindication of Jesus’ teaching; it grounds Christian eschatology; and is, in every respect, central to all other doctrines.

Second Temple Judaism does not place the resurrection in any such central role, and does not use it as an interconnecting theme for its doctrines. It is almost secondary in importance to other doctrines concerned with the law and prayer.

So what could explain this radical change? The preaching of Jesus? This is not tenable because Jesus does not put the resurrection at the center of His doctrine, but rather the arrival of the kingdom. Furthermore, He does not connect the resurrection to His Messiahship, and He certainly does not talk about the resurrection being transformed embodiment (or spiritual embodiment, or glorified embodiment), which is evident in the early Christian doctrine. The obvious explanation would be that the many witnesses (e.g., Peter, the Twelve, the 500 disciples, James, the early missionaries to the Gentile Church, and Paul himself) saw the risen Jesus in a transformed embodied state (manifesting at once a spiritual transformation which had the appearance of divine glory and power, and some form of embodiment which was continuous with Jesus’ embodiment in His ministry). This would easily explain all five of the above-mentioned mutations.

 

[ding]

Reread my post. "By anyone OUTSIDE of the bible accounts." Certainly, a never before seen like someone rising from the dead would be written about by many at that time. Here we have someone rising from the dead, and zombies getting up and walking out of the cemeteries, and no one other than some unknown people 40-90 years later writes about it?

While no non-Christian historians explicitly recorded Jesus' resurrection, some sources allude to it or provide context that supports the claims of his resurrection. While the claim of Jesus' resurrection is primarily recorded in the New Testament, other historical sources can offer clues about the events and beliefs surrounding the death and early following of Jesus.

Elaboration:

• Josephus:
  Josephus, a Jewish historian, mentions Jesus in his writings, including a reference to the belief in his resurrection. He also mentions Jesus' brother, James, who was also called "Christ".
  
  
• Tacitus:
  The Roman historian Tacitus mentions a figure named "Christus," who was executed under Pontius Pilate. Tacitus also mentions that this figure was the founder of a movement that spread beyond Judea and even to Rome, which suggests that the resurrection of Christ, and his claimed divinity, was a key belief that spread among the followers of this movement.
  
  
• Pliny the Younger:
  Pliny the Younger, a Roman official, wrote a letter to Emperor Trajan describing the practices of early Christians, including their belief in the resurrection of Christ.
  
  
• Other references:
  There are other references to Jesus and the early Christians in Roman and Jewish history. For example, the historian Thallus and the chronographer Phlegon are mentioned by Origen and Julius Africanus, respectively. While their writings are not fully preserved, they provide further evidence that the existence of Jesus and his followers was known to people other than Christians.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

While no non-Christian historians explicitly recorded Jesus' resurrection, some sources allude to it or provide context that supports the claims of his resurrection. While the claim of Jesus' resurrection is primarily recorded in the New Testament, other historical sources can offer clues about the events and beliefs surrounding the death and early following of Jesus.

Elaboration:

• Josephus:
  Josephus, a Jewish historian, mentions Jesus in his writings, including a reference to the belief in his resurrection. He also mentions Jesus' brother, James, who was also called "Christ".
  
  
• Tacitus:
  The Roman historian Tacitus mentions a figure named "Christus," who was executed under Pontius Pilate. Tacitus also mentions that this figure was the founder of a movement that spread beyond Judea and even to Rome, which suggests that the resurrection of Christ, and his claimed divinity, was a key belief that spread among the followers of this movement.
  
  
• Pliny the Younger:
  Pliny the Younger, a Roman official, wrote a letter to Emperor Trajan describing the practices of early Christians, including their belief in the resurrection of Christ.
  
  
• Other references:
  There are other references to Jesus and the early Christians in Roman and Jewish history. For example, the historian Thallus and the chronographer Phlegon are mentioned by Origen and Julius Africanus, respectively. While their writings are not fully preserved, they provide further evidence that the existence of Jesus and his followers was known to people other than Christians.

NO outside sources mention they witnessed the resurrection. Some allude to Christus and the beliefs of the commoners but all that means is they referred to the beliefs of humans at that time. It's like someone writing today about the Heavens Gate wealthy well-educated people being whisked up to a spaceship orbiting the Halle-Bopp comet and their souls would join Jesus there. That doesn't prove the story true.

 

[ding]

NO outside sources mention they witnessed the resurrection. Some allude to Christus and the beliefs of the commoners but all that means is they referred to the beliefs of humans at that time. It's like someone writing today about the Heavens Gate wealthy well-educated people being whisked up to a spaceship orbiting the Halle-Bopp comet and their souls would join Jesus there. That doesn't prove the story true.

24,000 written manuscripts recorded it and the first Christians worshipped as God because of it.

How do you explain all of this?

 

[Paradoxical#1]

24,000 written manuscripts recorded it and the first Christians worshipped as God because of it.

How do you explain all of this?

That's rubbish. Those writings were "recorded" many decades later by those who weren't eyewitnesses. Not even Paul was an eyewitness if you want to try to fall back on that fake apostle.