Zone1 Do most Jews believe they killed Jesus?

[irosie91]

You already got it. David did something wrong.

right, so? The scriptural writings are very clear about it.
If you keep reading, you might note that thereafter he had a
miserable life-----sorta like Nathan predicted he would. But
he trudged on. I find the writing to be excellent and realistic
exhibiting very intricate character development. Remember
Moses? He was not perfect either. Muhummad was perfect

 

[Meriweather]

right, so?

So, nothing. I had been reading about King Hezekiah. I took a break on that and was reading this thread. People of the Jewish faith had been participating, and I thought they might enjoy discussing their own scriptures, the Hebrew Bible. Hezekiah popped back into my mind, and so I posted this:

Or, perhaps we could address Hebrew Bible. For instance, what about Hezekiah? Does anyone consider Hezekiah a better king than King David? Why or why not?

The responses focused more on King David than King Hezekiah, so I went with that as the point was to converse about Hebrew scriptures anyway.

What do the imperfections of others have to do with King David? Still studying Hezekiah. Apparently he waited until later than normal to get married because what if he brought an unsatisfactory heir into the world. He was told he had a duty to marry and have children--and he shouldn't be concerned about what kind of children he produced. Sure enough, his heir did not turn out well.

I am fascinated that King Hezekiah ended up marrying the daughter of the man (Isaiah) who told him it was his duty to marry. I keep wondering who was the first to come up with that idea: Hezekiah? Isaiah? Isaiah's daughter.

Then there is the story of the sundial which I read several times. Good story.

 

[irosie91]

So, nothing. I had been reading about King Hezekiah. I took a break on that and was reading this thread. People of the Jewish faith had been participating, and I thought they might enjoy discussing their own scriptures, the Hebrew Bible. Hezekiah popped back into my mind, and so I posted this:


The responses focused more on King David than King Hezekiah, so I went with that as the point was to converse about Hebrew scriptures anyway.

What do the imperfections of others have to do with King David? Still studying Hezekiah. Apparently he waited until later than normal to get married because what if he brought an unsatisfactory heir into the world. He was told he had a duty to marry and have children--and he shouldn't be concerned about what kind of children he produced. Sure enough, his heir did not turn out well.

I am fascinated that King Hezekiah ended up marrying the daughter of the man (Isaiah) who told him it was his duty to marry. I keep wondering who was the first to come up with that idea: Hezekiah? Isaiah? Isaiah's daughter.

Then there is the story of the sundial which I read several times. Good story.

of course studying the hebrew scriptures is laudable----they are sublime even if one evaluates them from purely LITERARY VALUE.
"LITERARY VALUE" That which has no value at all is the premise of this thread which reflects the FILTH of the roman-christian ethos----to wit
the loaded rhetorical query "do most jews
believe they killed jesus" ?? <<<the dirty and disgusting libel of MILLENNIA (magda of the cyanide is having a cosmic orgasm)

 

[Lisa558]

of course studying the hebrew scriptures is laudable----they are sublime even if one evaluates them from purely LITERARY VALUE.
"LITERARY VALUE" That which has no value at all is the premise of this thread which reflects the FILTH of the roman-christian ethos----to wit
the loaded rhetorical query "do most jews
believe they killed jesus" ?? <<<the dirty and disgusting libel of MILLENNIA (magda of the cyanide is having a cosmic orgasm)

Agree. Technically, the thread is in violation of Zone 1 and could have been closed from the start. The question in the headline is a not-so-subtle form of saying “Christ killers!”

And for some reason, Christians can‘t seem to understand that Jesus is a complete non-entity to us. I’ve been going to services and taking classes at the synagogue since I was 5 years old, and never ONCE was he mentioned. The only reason Jews even think of Jesus, to the extent they do - which is almost never - is because of the harm to Jews that Christians did over the millennia, as a result of their belief he was a deity of some sort and the start of a new religion.

 

[irosie91]

Agree. Technically, the thread is in violation of Zone 1 and could have been closed from the start. The question in the headline is a not-so-subtle form of saying “Christ killers!”

And for some reason, Christians can‘t seem to understand that Jesus is a complete non-entity to us. I’ve been going to services and taking classes at the synagogue since I was 5 years old, and never ONCE was he mentioned. The only reason Jews even think of Jesus, to the extent they do - which is almost never - is because of the harm to Jews that Christians did over the millennia, as a result of their belief he was a deity of some sort and the start of a new religion.

so true. The insensitivity is mind boggling. Not only is the "query" a thinly veiled version of the epithet "CHRIST KILLER", it also represents a remarkable shallow mind. What is
true in my own little christian town experience as a child is------the christian mind LACK OF SCOPE---not just in reference to the mindset of
jews-----but even to OTHER RELIGIONS. Back then islam and hinduism and buddhism were
complete UNKNOWNS.

 

[Indeependent]

You already got it. David did something wrong.

Which is exactly why he is relatable.
Hezekiah was so perfect he wasn't relatable.
Joseph was perfect and unrelatable.
David, like Judah, admitted he made a mistake, was not perfect and relatable which is why Yaakov decided Judah and his descendants would be Kings.

 

[irosie91]

Which is exactly why he is relatable.
Hezekiah was so perfect he wasn't relatable.
Joseph was perfect and unrelatable.
David, like Judah, admitted he made a mistake, was not perfect and relatable which is why Yaakov decided Judah and his descendants would be Kings.

well----that's ^^^^ an interesting perspective--------sorta....................one of my all time fave chapters is the deathbed speech of Yaakov when he, ONE BY ONE, points to his
many sons and says WATTA SCHMUCK!!!! ---
it's the "anti-nachas" speech of the cosmos.

 

[irosie91]

I already told her that pointing out that the worst antisemites come out of a Catholic School doesn’t mean that all Catholic School kids are Jew-haters.

true-----lots never paid attention in class.
In my town----MOST of the catholic school
kids, on graduation from the 8 th grade got
promoted into the general non-parochial
system. The geniuses went to catholic
high school. In regular high school----we
found out that catholic kids got told ---
"don't read the bible" ??? it was LISTED

 

[Meriweather]

don't tell Meri. She is very sensitive

She had a very different experience in Catholic school. One where rabbis were invited and came to speak to us on occasion. Perhaps this is why (much to a family's gratitude) she advised the daughter against Jews for Jesus; helped another girl who had a Jewish heritage in her family line to return to her grandparents' faith; was able to step in and explain to public school classmates who were teasing a classmate of the Jewish faith the meaning and importance of a Jewish holy day.

Oh, and also urged my youngest daughter to go to a synagogue near her and study Judaism because she wanted as much from religion as she saw I was getting. By the way, her synagogue must have guards and vandalism isn't uncommon.

It's not just Judaism. I have helped kids through Ramadan and encouraged my other daughter's college roommate in her Hindu faith. Mostly I stand up for atheists, because the real-life atheists are not at all like the atheists that find their way online.

Yes, I am very sensitive. I was taught people's faith is holy ground. Native Americans understand that concept and were happy to explain it to us Catholic kids.

 

[Meriweather]

-we
found out that catholic kids got told ---
"don't read the bible" ???

We had Bibles in every classroom. Could it be that they were reminded--as we were--that the Bible was for study and scrutiny, not for reading. One of the nuns told us a well-known rabbi had once said that.

We were taught the Enlightenment claim that everyone could find any Bible, read it, and decide on their own what it meant was in error. We were taught there was more to Bible study than coming up with our own ideas of what it all meant.

Of course, we did have Catholic Bibles as the every popular King James did not include books Catholics kept as Canon. Rosie, I am betting if you saw a Bible "listed" it was the King James Bible. Protestants "listed" the Catholic Bible.

 

[irosie91]

She had a very different experience in Catholic school. One where rabbis were invited and came to speak to us on occasion. Perhaps this is why (much to a family's gratitude) she advised the daughter against Jews for Jesus; helped another girl who had a Jewish heritage in her family line to return to her grandparents' faith; was able to step in and explain to public school classmates who were teasing a classmate of the Jewish faith the meaning and importance of a Jewish holy day.

Oh, and also urged my youngest daughter to go to a synagogue near her and study Judaism because she wanted as much from religion as she saw I was getting. By the way, her synagogue must have guards and vandalism isn't uncommon.

It's not just Judaism. I have helped kids through Ramadan and encouraged my other daughter's college roommate in her Hindu faith. Mostly I stand up for atheists, because the real-life atheists are not at all like the atheists that find their way online.

Yes, I am very sensitive. I was taught people's faith is holy ground. Native Americans understand that concept and were happy to explain it to us Catholic kids.

ok-----something outside of the general situation----somehow missed by most of those little girls in blue and grey jumpers

 

[irosie91]

We had Bibles in every classroom. Could it be that they were reminded--as we were--that the Bible was for study and scrutiny, not for reading. One of the nuns told us a well-known rabbi had once said that.

We were taught the Enlightenment claim that everyone could find any Bible, read it, and decide on their own what it meant was in error. We were taught there was more to Bible study than coming up with our own ideas of what it all meant.

Of course, we did have Catholic Bibles as the every popular King James did not include books Catholics kept as Canon. Rosie, I am betting if you saw a Bible "listed" it was the King James Bible. Protestants "listed" the Catholic Bible.

no----in my time (LONG AGO) the entire OT was on "THE LIST" Catholic kids could not read
so much as a psalm for the reason you cite---they were considered unable to understand it

 

[Meriweather]

Hezekiah was so perfect he wasn't relatable.

The sundial story! Apparently Hezekiah didn't have a fleece to set before the Lord, but he had the sundial. I believe his father had that built. Anyway. Hezekiah had doubts over getting married and having children. I find Hezekiah quite relatable. Hasn't everyone had some kind of fleece to set before God? Doesn't everyone have doubts about marriage and children?

 

[surada]

easy. Jesus ---by virtue of the words that a credibly attributed to him, demonstrates the fact that he is a pharisee jew. HOWEVER, the really impressive truth of that fact is his attack on the money changers situated in the Temple Court Yard. HISTORICALLY--(not jelly bean history but REAL history) reveals that the PHARISEES were dead-set against the presence of those "money changers" in the Temple Courtyard. They were actually roman shills just as were the "tax collectors" who situated themselves at the gates to the city. ---they were something like KGB operatives who monitored just what the romans could pillage from the people. -----knowing these facts---READ IT AGAIN

Really? Post the verses from the Bible.

 

[Meriweather]

no----in my time (LONG AGO) the entire OT was on "THE LIST" Catholic kids could not read
so much as a psalm for the reason you cite---they were considered unable to understand it

The Old Testament and Psalms were read during every Mass.

 

[irosie91]

Really? Post the verses from the Bible.

lots of them----for example that which you call
"the lord's prayer" An anecdote----decades ago
I noticed a friend of mine---a jewess from Iran
had a keychain with "the lord's prayer"
engraved on it in both hebrew and english. I
told her----"do you know that this is a christian
prayer"? She read it in hebrew and said----"no, its jewish----a nice lady in the airport gave it to me"
Of course the prayer is very jewish---but it is attributed to Jesus. For the record---a jew cannot walk two blocks in Israel without being accosted by a christian missionary

 

[irosie91]

The Old Testament and Psalms were read during every Mass.

the kids from the catholic school did not read
the required 5 verses----ie they refused----
because they have been instructed not to read
them on their own long ago---when I was in
public school

 

[surada]

lots of them----for example that which you call
"the lord's prayer" An anecdote----decades ago
I noticed a friend of mine---a jewess from Iran
had a keychain with "the lord's prayer"
engraved on it in both hebrew and english. I
told her----"do you know that this is a christian
prayer"? She read it in hebrew and said----"no, its jewish----a nice lady in the airport gave it to me"
Of course the prayer is very jewish---but it is attributed to Jesus. For the record---a jew cannot walk two blocks in Israel without being accosted by a christian missionary

I asked about verses re: the moneychangers.

 

[irosie91]

I asked about verses re: the moneychangers.

you don't know the NT account of Jesus and
the money-changers-----EASY---just read
the book

 

[Lisa558]

you don't know the NT account of Jesus and
the money-changers-----EASY---just read
the book

How can she not know the NT account? She said she went to Catholic School.