Zone1 Do Christians Proselytize out of “Love” - or Arrogance?

[Indeependent]

That doesn’t mean he wanted to convert people to Christianity, which did not exist during his lifetime. He wanted to have people follow his teachings, which were primarily Jewish values and lessons.

Incorrect as John, the Baptist was already dipping people.
Interesting for a religion that has no commandments.

 

[Lisa558]

This is probably superficial of me but I think it's the fact that it reads right to left which seems tricky AND there seems to be a great deal of interpretation involved. But what do I know about it: almost nothing. Admittedly.

You get used to the right to left thing very quickly, and are completely unaware of it as you’re reading.

And that there is so much interpretation to it makes it interesting.

 

[Lisa558]

Incorrect as John, the Baptist was already dipping people.
Interesting for a religion that has no commandments.

Incorrect as John, the Baptist was already dipping people.
Interesting for a religion that has no commandments.

I don’t think it was Jesus‘ intent at all to start a new religion. He just added some “twists.” It was really Paul who started it, after Jesus died.

 

[Indeependent]

I don’t think it was Jesus‘ intent at all to start a new religion. He just added some “twists.” It was really Paul who started it, after Jesus died.

The Book of James is the 1st book chronologically and last in the Canon and James says Paul is full
Of sh!t.

 

[SweetSue92]

That doesn’t mean he wanted to convert people to Christianity, which did not exist during his lifetime. He wanted to have people follow his teachings, which were primarily Jewish values and lessons.

Well just so you know my starting point. I am not going to attempt to convince you that since Jesus was Jewish, it means XYZ for you or whatever. In other words you can consider this (what I hope) a rational conversation between two posters. Nothing personal, no ulterior motives.

So that said.

Jesus was a devout Jew. In fact He was the perfect Jew, you might say. He fulfilled the law. So there's no way to deny that He taught primarily Jewish values and lessons--that was God's plan. But of course that's not the full picture either. If it was the full picture I guess there would be no Christians.

 

[SweetSue92]

The Book of James is the 1st book chronologically and last in the Canon and James says Paul is full
Of sh!t.

I'd be interested to hear what verses you're referring to.

 

[SweetSue92]

I don’t think it was Jesus‘ intent at all to start a new religion. He just added some “twists.” It was really Paul who started it, after Jesus died.

"I am the Resurrection and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" seems hardly a twist. Nor does the way in which He confronted the leaders of his own faith. Frankly I'm not aware of any major points of doctrine Paul "invented" that Jesus did not state. If I'm wrong I know I'll be corrected.

 

[SweetSue92]

Incorrect as John, the Baptist was already dipping people.
Interesting for a religion that has no commandments.

Oh but we do. And they're big.

"You shall love the Lord your God with all your mind, heart, soul and strength.....and you should love your neighbor as yourself." Matthew 22:37-40. Jesus even said upon these two commandments hang the whole law and the prophets.

 

[Indeependent]

I'd be interested to hear what verses you're referring to.

It was back in 1999; I don’t remember.
But it’s a very short book.

 

[Indeependent]

Oh but we do. And they're big.

"You shall love the Lord your God with all your mind, heart, soul and strength.....and you should love your neighbor as yourself." Matthew 22:37-40. Jesus even said upon these two commandments hang the whole law and the prophets.

That defeats the entire Deeds are for Naught.
Jen again, you have Acts.

 

[SweetSue92]

That defeats the entire Deeds are for Naught.
Jen again, you have Acts.

Deeds "works" don't save you. They can't. God is perfect and holy. It's an immutable characteristic. He can't accept anything but perfection. We can't be perfect no matter how hard we try.

I suspect you mean that James "trashed" Paul because he focused on works. He was also right. Money line: "faith without works is dead". Jesus said this too in so many ways--in the parable of the sower. If you have true saving faith, your deeds will bear this out. In vernacular we say "the truth will out".

 

[Indeependent]

Deeds "works" don't save you. They can't. God is perfect and holy. It's an immutable characteristic. He can't accept anything but perfection. We can't be perfect no matter how hard we try.

I suspect you mean that James "trashed" Paul because he focused on works. He was also right. Money line: "faith without works is dead". Jesus said this too in so many ways--in the parable of the sower. If you have true saving faith, your deeds will bear this out. In vernacular we say "the truth will out".

James trashed Paul because James said the Commandments were paramount.
It’s your book to read.

 

[ding]

It kinda seems like indeependent is indirectly proselytizing.

 

[Indeependent]

It kinda seems like indeependent is indirectly proselytizing.

Nope…pointing out facts.

 

[ding]

Nope…pointing out facts.

I'm sure you believe that. What I see is someone attacking a faith not their own. It's kind of a fucked up way of proselytizing. I'm sure in your mind you have rationalized what you are doing is noble but it just seems petty to me.

 

[Indeependent]

I'm sure you believe that. What I see is someone attacking a faith not their own. It's kind of a fucked up way of proselytizing. I'm sure in your mind you have rationalized what you are doing is noble but it just seems petty to me.

Posting a fact bothers you?
Why not address what James says?

 

[fncceo]

out of “Love” - or Arrogance?​

Do you really have to ask?

 

[ding]

Posting a fact bothers you?
Why not address what James says?

It's your motives that bother me. I've got 24,000 written manuscripts of facts.

 

[Indeependent]

I'm sure you believe that. What I see is someone attacking a faith not their own. It's kind of a fucked up way of proselytizing. I'm sure in your mind you have rationalized what you are doing is noble but it just seems petty to me.

That’s rather ironic considering that proselytizing is an explicit command in the Gospels.

 

[ding]

That’s rather ironic considering that proselytizing is an explicit command in the Gospels.

If God wants me to convert you I'm sure He'll let me know. I prefer to lead by example. I don't put a shade over my light. And I don't criticize someone else's faith. To me that would be like criticizing their family.