Judaism rejects the idea of original sin, which is the idea that humans are born with a sinful nature. Instead, Judaism believes that humans are born pure and innocent, with the ability to choose between good and evil using their free will. According to Judaism, humans sin because they are not perfect beings, and their negative tendencies, or yetzer hara, can be channeled in ways that affirm life through the influence of yetzer hatov, or the inclination to goodness. The Hebrew word for sin, ḥet, literally means something that goes astray, like an arrow that misses the mark, and is not a permanent failure.
Zone1 To Those Who Have Ears - LET THEM HEAR! Knock and It Will Be Given To You - The REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST HAS BEEN FULFILLED.
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Cougarbear
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Based on the definition of Messiah, they were also messiahs. Were they the messiah that would come and atone for our sins as stated in Isaiah 53? No.
Cougarbear
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Like you. Ya, the JW is very lost. But, in a way, as much as you are too. You are unable to see the lessons the scriptures are giving prophesying of Jesus Christ and the end of days.
Cougarbear
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Judah is but one tribe of Israel. Ask the other 11. I don't view the sins of Adam and Eve the way Catholics do. But, they did bring sin into the world for their children and on down to the current days. And, an atonement is needed. The sacrificial lambs of the OT times was a similitude of the only begotten of the Father in the flesh. Where we differ with Catholics is we believe that each of us will be judged by our own sins and not the sins of Adam (and Eve). Therefore, we each are required to repent and be baptized by one with authority to do so.
ninja007
Gold Member
LDS church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Mormonism Articles
The changing teachings of the Mormon church.What do Mormon's really believe? Polygamy,blacks and the priesthood were dropped by new revelation what's next?
www.letusreason.org
ninja007
Gold Member
When men become god's throughout the universe Brigham Young stated “how many Gods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were no Gods and worlds…(JoD vol.7 p.333)Mormonism teaches that God (of this world) was once a man who became a god. (DoC 130:22) Was once born as a baby on another planet (Church News, Sept,19 1936 p.2 J. F. Smith) died and was resurrected (Gospel Principles p.9), progressed to become a God. Joseph Smith said we will become gods like all other gods This Mormon god has a father, a grandfather and a great grandfather (Doctrines of Salvation vol.2 p.47) ad infinitum. In the Bible the Lord states: "I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me" (Isaiah 43:10). God in the Bible is presented as from everlasting to everlasting. The Bible "I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any" (Isaiah 44: 6-8). So if God who is an exalted man as in Mormonism, why does he say he does know of any other God or teach anywhere man progresses to become a god? How is it Mormonism knows there are many gods? There is no Bible teaching of many gods except for the true God to say any other god is false but him. This LDS god is not the same as the Biblical God. The God of the Bible is not a man, nor was He ever a man before he was God (Numbers 23:19). The God of the Bible is Spirit (John 4:24), who became man once through Jesus Christ. The bible teaches us that the first man was made on the 6th day on earth. J. Smith, “I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of deity, it has been on the plurality of Gods…the doctrine of a plurality of Gods is as prominent in the Bible as any other doctrine.” What Smith spoke is true- there are many false gods but there is only one true God Spencer W. Kimball, the twelfth president of the church, made some revealing comments to those serving in the priesthood: "Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. 1 suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. There seems to be plenty of space out there in the universe.” Jer. 10:11 says, “the Gods that have not made the heavens or the earth they will perish.” This means all the gods of Mormonism or anyone else who lays claim to his eternal position and nature will be included. Since there is only one God who made the heavens and earth. The ultimate evil to God is to call oneself God, with a big G. or small g. Israel was strictly monotheistic, Mormonism is not (Deut.6:4). What Mormons believe is classified as Henotheism = that there is a head God with multiple lesser Gods. Which has its roots in pagan religions. Gen. 3:5 "For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." If Eve or Adam were going to be a god there would be no need to tempt them to be like Him. Their fall from believing what the fruit would bring was direct disobedience. Mormonism is religious tale of spiritual evolution, every bit as false as Darwin's evolution. You have a father and mother in heaven who birthed spirit children who become physical on earth and ascend to become gods on their own planet from obeying the laws of Mormonism. This has no basis in the Bible and should be rejected otherwise one is not living in the Christian faith. |
ninja007
Gold Member
Why the Mormon Church is not the TRUE churchJesus Christ started?
Robert Millet is part of the Church Public Affairs (Manager of Outreach andInterfaith Relations)
Millet is the Mormon churches spokesman to try and make peace withChristians, he currently does public tours called dialogues between anEvangelical and Mormon. Millet states, “much of the misunderstanding in modern Christendomstems from a “vocabulary issue” -- the need to educate ourselves as towhat our friends mean.” I agree, the meaning of what is said can bedifferent than the words. The meaning can alsobe more important then the words said. We will consider the LDSchurch own words and statements; themeaning becomes obvious.
In this article the main differences between true Christianity and what thereligion of Mormonism proposes as the truth will be laid out for anyone tounderstand. The choice of which is true will be their own.
I want to make it clear for both Mormons and Christians how divided we areon the essentials of the Christian faith, that is based on the teachings ofJesus Christ and His Apostles. My intent is not to make Mormons angry (it maybe unavoidable) but to have them understandthe basic differences and why we do not accept their religion as authenticChristianity. I will only quote from their officials; their president’s,prophet's and apostles.
We will concentrate on only three things: 1) The nature of God. 2) JesusChrist, and 3) the way of Salvation. With their own quotes next to the Bibleand the explanations of the text it will be proven they have a very differentmessage than the Christian church does from the Bible. A message that is not compatible at allwith Jesus Christ, nor with the apostles.
1) The Nature of God
Mormons teach there are many Gods and that man himself can become a god.Mormon teaching- “Question- Are there more Gods than one? Answer- Yes,many.1 Cor 8:5” (Catechism, by Elder John Jaques, chapter 4, page 13.)
The Bible teaches there is only ONE true God who eternally exists beforeanything was made and that all other gods are false.
MORMONISM -“You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, andto be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you”(Founder and Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith, The Journal ofDiscourses, Vol. VI, page 4)
Their own prophet taught that men who are created by God can become God. Ofcourse their concept of God is not the same as the bible because the Bibleteaches God always existed as God, does not change, so no creature created byhim can become Him.
“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sitsenthroned in yonder heavens ( Founder and Mormon Prophet JosephSmith, April 6, 1844, The Journal of Discourses, Vol. VI,page 3
“...He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all,dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did...” (History ofthe Church, Vol. 6, p. 305-306).
The Bible- “Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of theincorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man (Romans 1:22-23)
They are teaching that God was a man “as we are now” and then achieved hisexalted rank. So God the Father was not always the Father, but becamethe Father (see John 17)
“Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint andsinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into itwith a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him.(Second President and Prophet Brigham Young, April 9, 1852, recorded inThe Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, page 50).
“As man is, god once was; as God is, man may become.”(LorenzoSnow the fifth President of the Church, LDS Church News, Jan. 16, 1983,p. 14)
“In the Heaven where our spirits were born, there are many Gods, each oneof whom has his own wife or wives which were given to him previous to hisredemption, while yet in his mortal state” (The Seer, by ApostleOrson Pratt, Vol. 1, March 1853, No. 3, page 37)
“The Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth” (“Bookof Abraham,”4:1, in The Pearl of Great Price, by the Prophet JosephSmith, page 38.
“The head God called together the Gods and sat in grand council tobring forth the world.”
“I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I havepreached on the subject of deity, it has been on the plurality of Gods…thedoctrine of a plurality of Gods is as prominent in the Bible as any otherdoctrine.” (founder J. Smith History of the church Vol.6 pp.308,474)
The founder Smith was so convinced of his Godhood that he declared “MyFather worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same;and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my Father, so that he mayobtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then takea higher exaltation, and I will TAKE HIS PLACE, and thereby become EXALTEDMYSELF.” (LDS “Founder” and “Prophet” Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses,Vol. 6, p. 4, 1844, emphasis added)
“In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods;and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it”(sermon by Founder and Prophet Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844, recorded in TheJournal of Discourses, Vol. VI, page 5)
Joseph Smith said “God himself was once as we are now, and is anexalted man.” “…I say, if you were to see him today, you would see himlike a man in form- like yourselves, in all the person, image and very form asa man…” (founder Joseph Smith history of the Church vol.6 p.305 also teachings ofthe prophet J.Smith p.345)
“It [Mormonism] is the only system of religion known in heaven or onearth that can EXALT A MAN TO THE GODHEAD, and this it will do to all thosewho embrace its laws and faithfully observe its precepts.” (LDS “Prophet”and second president Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, p. 251, 1863)
Spencer W. Kimball, the twelfth president of the church stated: “Brethren,225,000 of you are here tonight. 1 suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. Thereseems to be plenty of space out there in the universe. And the Lord has provedthat he knows how to do it. 1 think he could make, or probably have us helpmake, worlds for all of us, for every one of us 225,000” (The Ensign, p.80, Nov. 1975).
Brigham Young the second president of the church, “How manyGods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were noGods and worlds…”(Brigham Young Journal of Discourses, vol. 7p.333).
What Mormon can believe in only one God? If they did, they would go againsttheir founder, the prophets, presidents, apostles and all the teachings intheir church.They would not have the testimony of their founder Joseph Smithbeing a prophet.
The Bible- Isaiah 44:6 “Beside Me there is no God”
Psalm 90:2 “Before the mountains were brought forth, orever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting toeverlasting, thou art God”
Deuteronomy 33:27 “The eternal God”
Deuteronomy 6:4 “our God is one LORD”
Deuteronomy 4:35,39 “Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightestknow that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.v.39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORDhe is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.”
Isaiah 44:6, 8 “Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and hisredeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and besideme there is no God. Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told theefrom that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there aGod beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Isaiah 45:5 “I am the LORD, and there is none else, there isno God beside Me”
Isaiah 45:18 “For thus says the Lord, Who created the heavens, Whois God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did notcreate it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord, and thereis no other.”
Isaiah 45:21 “and there is no God else beside me; a justGod and a Savior; there is none beside me.
God says that he alone is God, not just over this world but in all thingsHe alone created. He is the Eternal One (“I AM”, Exodus 3:14). No onecould or ever will be able to become deity or God.
Psalm 86:10 “For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thouart God alone.
I Chronicles 17:26 “Thou alone art God”
2 Samuel 7:22 “O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither isthere any God beside thee”
1 Kings 8:60 “the LORD is God, and that there is none else.
ISAIAH 46:9 “For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, andthere is none like me.”
This means that none become God like the gods before them
John 17:3 “And this is life eternal, that they might knowthee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent”
1 Timothy 2:5 “ For there is one God, and one mediatorbetween God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
2) Jesus
This brings us to the next Mormon distinctive that differs from orthodoxChristianity – the Jesus of Mormonism. Mormon theology widely differs from Christianityon this subject, they teach that a “Heavenly Father” and “HeavenlyMother” begat spirits, Jesus was born in heaven with many other spiritbrothers-including Lucifer. The Bible does not teach of a mother (or Father andson as a family) but the Mormon church does.
“This doctrine that there is a Mother in Heaven was affirmedin plainness by the First Presidency of the Church (Mormon Doctrine,Apostle McConkie 1979, page 516)
Milton R. Hunter, who served in the First Council of the Seventy, confirms:“The stupendous truth of the existence of a Heavenly Mother, aswell as a Heavenly Father, became established facts in Mormon theology”(The Gospel Through the Ages, 1958, p.98).
Their own president should settle the matter-Hinckley was asked on aprime-time Australian TV broadcast if his church taught that God the Fatherhas a wife, he replied, “I don't know, but I suppose so. As we have aFather I assume we have a mother.” Pressed by interviewer David Ransom,Hinckley acknowledged: “Yes. Well we...Yes, we have a mother in heaven”(From a transcript of the 9 November 1997 Compass TV program, AustralianBroadcast Company president Hinckley)
“In the pre-mortal spirit life Jesus, Lucifer, and all of us were thespirit children of God and His wives” (Gospel Through the Ages, pp.15, 93-99; Journal of Discourses, Vol. XI, p. 122). Apostle Bruce McConkiewrote, “The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (MormonDoctrine, p. 129.) This agrees with Joseph F. Smith, sixth president of theLDS Church, “Among the spirit children of Elohim, the first-born wasand is Jehovah, or Jesus Christ, to whom all others are juniors” (GospelDoctrine, p. 70).
According to Joseph F. Smith, sixth president of the LDS Church, “Amongthe spirit children of Elohim, the first-born was and is Jehovah, or JesusChrist, to whom all others are juniors,” (Gospel Doctrine, p. 70).Joseph F. Smith, Jr., made this plain in his book,: “The birth of theSavior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree ofmysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh aswell as in the spirit”( Religious Truths Defined, page 44)
In the book of Mormon, Alma 7:10 Jesus was born at Jerusalem. In Micah 5:2;Luke 2:4 the Bible states it was Bethlehem. The Mormon’s argument is that“Jerusalem” refers to the general vicinity, but in I Nephi 1:3 itis called a “city.” Bethlehem and Jerusalem are two different citiesaccording to the Bible. So they have a Jesus also born in a different city.
Doctrine and Covenants 93:21-23 teaches that, “Christ, the Firstborn,was the mightiest of all the spirit children of the Father.” Joseph F.Smith the sixth prophet of the LDS Church said this of Jesus, “Among thespirit children of Elohim, the first-born was and is Jehovah, or Jesus Christ,to whom all others are juniors,” (Gospel Doctrine, p. 70).
The Mormons Jesus is created, the Bibles Jesus is the creator. Jesus cannotbe both created and non- created, the brother of the devil and the creator ofthe Devil. He is either one or the other.
The Bible- Tells all those from the time of Jesus onward toour day who Jesus ACTUALLY is- 1 Timothy 3:16 tells us “God wasmanifested in the flesh.” This goes along with various other passages suchas Romans 9:5 “According to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all,the eternally blessed God. Amen
In Hebrews 1:10 The Father speaking of the Son, “And, Thou, Lord, inthe beginning has laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens arethe works of your hands... and they shall be changed: but thou art thesame” (quoting Psalm 102:25).
John 1:3 “All things were made through Him, and withoutHim nothing was made that was made.”
Colossians 1:16-17 “For by Him all things were created that arein heaven and that are on earth,
Revelation 1:7-8 “Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eyewill see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth willmourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. “I am the Alpha and the Omega, theBeginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is tocome, the Almighty.”
In conclusion on this topic. What kind of God became flesh? For the Mormons-none. Jesus is an angel that became a man, and was exalted to become a God.
The Bible- “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Donot be carried about with various and strange doctrines.” (Hebrews13:8-9)
The Jesus of Mormonism is not the Jesus of the Bible. They cannot be bothcreated and non- created.
3) The Gospel
Now we come the most important part of this article. I’m speaking thetruth in love, there is nothing more that I would desire than to see Mormonsunderstand the gospel that is the Bible.
Galatians 1:8-9: ”But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preachany other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him beaccursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, ifanyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you havereceived, let him be accursed.”
Paul states in 2 Corinthians11:3-4 “But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by hiscraftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is inChrist. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus(that’s what Mormons have) whom we have not preached, or if you receive a differentspirit (that’s what Mormons have) which you have notreceived, or a different gospel (that’s whatMormons have) which you have not accepted-- you may well put up with it!”
Mormonism
“The Sectarian Dogma of justification by Faith alone has exercised aninfluence for evil since the early days of Christianity” (The Articlesof Faith, by Apostle James E. Talmage, 1899 edition, page 120. In his1925 edition of The Articles of Faith, on page 479, he calls “justificationby faith alone” “this pernicious doctrine.”)
“As with the proposal of Lucifer in the preexistence to save allmankind, so with the doctrine of salvation by grace alone, without works, asit is taught in modern Christendom -- both concepts are false. There is nosalvation in either of them. They both come from the same source; they are notof God” (What Think Ye of Salvation by Grace p. 49; Robert Millet,p. 73)
Joseph Fielding Smith, the tenth prophet, explained “Our EternalFather would have every soul saved if that were feasible. Salvation,however, is based on merit and obedience to divine law and therefore is onlyobtained through compliance with divine commandments” (Nov. 1965, p.962).
George Q. Cannon speaking of Joseph Smith “If we get oursalvation, we shall have to pass by him, if we enter our glory, it will bethrough the authority he has received. We cannot get around him” (George Q.Cannon, 1988 Melchezedik guide, p.142)
2 Nephi 25:23 by grace we are saved, after all we can do.”
“Therefore, acting alone, the grace of Christ is notsufficient for salvation. The works of man -- the ordinances of salvation,the deeds of service and acts of charity and mercy -- are necessary forsalvation...” (By Grace Are We Saved: The necessity of God'sgrace in addition to man's good works, 1989 ed., p. 70)
Robert. Millet is the one who is going around in discussion with GregJohnson telling people that we can get along and that believe the same thing.Here he calls being saved by faith through grace a doctrine of the Devil. “Aswith the proposal of Lucifer in the preexistence to save all mankind, so withthe doctrine of salvation by grace alone, without works, as it is taught inmodern Christendom -- both concepts are false. There is no salvation in eitherof them. They both come from the same source; they are not of God’ (WhatThink Ye of Salvation by Grace p. 49; cf. Robert Millet, p. 73).
Marion Romney (LDS First Presidency) said, “This Church is the ensignon the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, thetruth, and the life” (Conference Report, April, 1961, pg. 119).
“So hear it all ye ends of the earth; if you ever enter into the kingdomof God, it is because Joseph Smith let you go there. This will apply to Jewsand Gentiles, to the bond and free; to friends and foes; no man or woman inthis generation will get a resurrection and be crowned without Joseph sayingso. (Second president Brigham Young, Conference held on October 8, 1854)
The Bible -
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [itis] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast”(Ephesians 2:4–9).
“being justified freely by His grace through the redemptionthat is in Christ Jesus” (Rom. 3:24). V.28 “Therefore weconclude that a man is justified by faith apart from thedeeds of the law”
“But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yeadoubtless, and I count all things [but] loss for the excellency of theknowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of allthings, and do count them [but] dung, that I may win Christ, And be found inhim, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that whichis through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith”(Philippians 3:7–9).
“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according tohis mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewingof the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ ourSaviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirsaccording to the hope of eternal life” (Titus 3:5–7).
The Bible speaks of the grace of God through faith to be saved- there is noOTHER way.
As Robert Millet stated “...if everything we teach and believe isin the Bible, we wouldn't have needed a Joseph Smith, a Book ofMormon, a Doctrines and Covenants or a restoration!”(43 minute video, Source: http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/49068/6036%20)
Their spokesman for Church Public Affairs believes that the Bible is insufficient, and they defendthis position today- nothing has changed.
The Bible-Jesus said in Jn.17:8 “I have given them your words you have given me.”
Jesus said “my sheep hear my voice, they will flee from thevoice of stranger.”
John 8
“He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do nothear, because you are not of God.”The whole Old Testament testifies that there is only one God who madeeverything that exists. The whole New Testament testifies that Jesus Christ isthat God who came in human flesh. No matter how one tries to reform or adjustMormon doctrine it does not make it Christian doctrine. Softening the Mormonposition on these 3 points does not make it authentic and can only bring intoquestion anyone’s honesty in their motives. If the concept of many gods isnot abandoned, if the belief that Jesus is a spirit creature is not abandonedthen the gospel that centers on Jesus Christ cannot be the true gospel. And ifit is not the true authentic one, then it cannot save no matter how sincere aperson is.
For further understanding of the Mormon propaganda to the Christianchurch and the public go to Cantwo walk together unless they Agree
ninja007
Gold Member
WHAT DO THEY ACTUALLY MEAN WHEN THEY SAY...
Today there appears to have been a change of attitude from the LDS church toward otherChurches outside their restoration movement. Instead of putting the churches down as theyonce have they now have a new ploy.
They now hide the fact that they started from Joseph Smith when he was searching forwhich church he should join, he was answered from God "I was answered that I mustjoin none of them (Christian Churches), for they were all wrong...that all their creedswere an abomination in His sight" (Joseph Smith History 1:19).
I had a representative from the Institute of religion of the Mormon Churchon our radio program, when I asked about this quote he was offended that I brought out such a negative statementespecially at the beginning of my program. But he did not deal with the quoteexcept to say Smith did say it.
Has anything changed since they want to be accepted as Christians? Has any of theseremarks or revelation knowledge been retracted? Has there ever been an open apology? Theanswer to these questions is a big NO!
No quotes of this nature have been eliminated, their policy still isthe same under the surface. Their stance on anything called Christian outside their ownChurch is... "The gates of Hell have prevailed and will continue to prevailover the Catholic Mother of harlots, and over all her Protestant Daughters; ....the apostate Catholic church, with all her popes and bishops, together with all her harlotdaughters shall be hurled down to Hell.... (Orson Pratt, Pamphlets by Orson Pratt,Page 112)
This Church is the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth ....there is no salvation outside the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.(Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, Page 670)
George Q. Cannon claims there are only two churches; the Mormon churchand Babylon (Gospel Truths, pg. 324).
The Christian world, so called, are heathens as to their knowledge of the salvation ofGod' (Journal of Discourses 8:171)
We find that L A and Orange county are the fastest growing areas of Mormon growth.Although I would think that Hawaii could very well see an explosion of Mormonism verysoon. Since they in the midst of mainstreaming their image , trying to be accepted as justanother Christian denomination (but a more true one?). They are still not accepting ourbelieves or practices ,yet they want us to soften and accept theirs. A Mormon will stilldivorce someone who becomes a born again believer different than any other cult group.
Maybe you have noticed their change of advertisements on TV, Instead of putting thebook of Mormon next to the bible as another testament they now just advertise the Bible sothey can come to your house as being representatives of Christianity. Recently the LDSChurch has carried its bait and switch campaign to new heights. The New television adsoffer listeners a free copy of a King James Bible. This too will be hand-delivered simplyby calling a toll-free number.
But their view of the Bible is certainly nothing more than a facade ,a LDS smokescreen, exposing their anti Christ stance. Mormon leaders have made it clear OVER and OVERthat the Bible is inferior to the other books included in the LDS "standardworks." 13th LDS President Ezra Taft Benson wrote, "All scripture is not ofequal value. The book that is the 'keystone of our religion' and that will get a man'nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book' needs to be studiedconstantly" (A Witness and Warning, pg.vii).
I remember asking numerous times for Mormons to justify their teachings from the Bible, at the time not knowing their view of it cannot be trusted. LDS Apologist Hugh Nibleynoted, "Nephi's view of the New Testament, then, rests on two basic propositions.Proposition number one is that the Bible has come down to the world in a mutilatedform" Pratt wrote, "What shall we say then, concerning the Bible's being asufficient guide? Can we rely upon it in its present known corrupted state, as being afaithful record of God's word? We all know that but a few of the inspired writings havedescended to our times, With all their trashing of sacred scripture I consider the LDSChurch as participating in the height of hypocrisy by deceitfully offering the Bible inits ads. Something they put down
However some of their bibles are a combination of the book of Mormon with it. Whilethis may not be actually adding to the text it certainly is adding to the word giving onethe impression that they are both compatible, which they are not ! Giving thesebooks to people they visit is an easy way to deceive them since most are naive to thecontradictions.
If they were compatible then J. Smith would not have made his own translation. WhenChristians point out the curses in the book of Rev. for anyone who changes it, the Mormonreplies but that is for that book only not the others. Yet Prov. 30:6""Do not add to Hiswords, lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar." This was written long before thebook of Revelation and it means any of his words.
So we need to ask if these curses would be in effect if anyone had dared to alter justthe Book of Revelation in any way. Their reply is, this would obviously be so.
In the Joseph Smith Translation: he had added to, or subtracted from the Book ofRevelation over 85 times. I think that qualifies him for the curses, don’t you ! Hemade 662 changes in the book of Genesis 32 different statements about the book of Genesis.560 changes in the book of Luke. Mt.483, Ps.188, Isa.178, John.159, etc. Do they presentany proof of why the bible is mistranslated . No, all they do is refer to their infallibleprophet/Pope who says so.
When the missionaries come to your door do they tell people about their real view ofthe bible that its full of defects? What they don’t tell people is what Mormonleaders and the Mormon Scriptures actually say? For good reason, most who read the bibleor have any background in it would throw them right out.
In its general public statements about the Bible today The Mormon Church cites its ownArticles of Faith, found in its Scripture, the Pearl of Great Price. We believe the Bibleto be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly;... (Articles of Faith, #8)
As Christians we don't have any objection with this statement,obviously their are some extremely poor and bad translations (mostly from the cult). TheJehovah's Witness's New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures is one example. But thisis not what the Mormons really mean when they state this. Speaking more honestly to theirown members recent Mormon leaders have stated it this way: The Mormons most reliable wayto measure the accuracy of any biblical passage is not by comparing different texts, butby comparison with the Book of Mormon and modern-day revelations. (Church News, June20, 1992, page 3, a letter from the First Presidency (Presidents Benson, Hinckley, andMonson) dated May 22, 1992, to all members of the Church) Joseph Smith had 145 direct revelations.
Thus, instead of using the Bible to evaluate Mormonism they reverse this and useMormonism to judge the Bible. When speaking honestly, Mormon leaders view the Book ofMormon as more reliable than the Bible:
"Unlike the Bible, which passed through generations of copyists,translators, and corrupt religionists who tampered with the text, the Book of Mormon camefrom writer to reader in just one inspired step of translation. ("The Keystone of OurReligion", Ensign, by President Ezra Taft Benson, January 1992, page 5).
The Book of Mormon claims important parts of the Biblehave been removed. That it was needed to restore the true gospel.
I [Joseph Smith] believe the Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the originalwriters. Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priestshave committed many errors. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.327)
...It was not until February 16, 1832, however, after a conference in Amherst, Ohio,that Joseph said it was apparent to him, "from sundry revelations which had beenreceived, "that "many important points touching the salvation of man had beentaken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled." (Preface to D & C76.)
so what do they mean when they say: God
"...orthodox Christian views of God are Pagan rather than Christian." (MormonDoctrine of Deity by B.H. Roberts, p.116)
"...the God whom the 'Christians' worship is a being of their owncreation..." (Apostle Charles W. Penrose, Journal of Discourses 23:243)
How anyone can say these things and publish them with a straight face is beyond me. Thepagan concept is multiple Gods exactly what they believe, Also they have in their writingsthat Adam was God and god was once a man who progressed to be god and that is the God theyworship, that is worshipping a god of their own creation , god made in the image of man, acreature who is not god at all.
When a Mormon speaks about the Gospel it is not the Christian Gospel but the restoredone of J. Smith, you can join the Mormon church and not believe Jesus is the Son of God butyou cannot join unless you accept J. Smith as a prophet of God.
This is more than a church but its a way of life. they will not remove ones name fromthe roll unless one is excommunicated , if there are problems they will ask them to goinactive but will not take the step to leave because its too scary ,The Mormons believeyou are born saved, universalism. Jesus death gave salvation to all meaning its notsalvation from sins but resurrection. Salvation is only square one, it is exaltation thatis important, becoming a God. This becomes a complicated process.
SALVATION
God so loved, that he made provision for a 2nd chance and all will receivethat opportunity.
Apostle of The Church Bruce R. McConkie, called the doctrine of salvation by gracewithout works, "the second greatest heresy" of Christianity during Brigham YoungUniversity's opening devotional Tuesday. The first great heresy, he said, pertains to thenature of God, the doctrine of the trinity. (Staff Report, The Herald, Provo Utah,1/12/1984)
The nature of god in Christianity and the persons involved also have to do withsalvation.
For Salvation, the Mormon church has always upheld mans own obedience merits him rightstanding with God, whoever that god is, I still haven’t figured out which one. TheGospel of Mormonism is "faith, repentance, baptism, receiving the H. Spirit by thelaying on of hands, morality, loyalty, tithing, word of wisdom, duty, celestial marriage(Articles of faith)
James Talmage, who many considered Mormonism's greatest theologian,explained Jesus' atoning work on the cross. Talmage wrote, "We believe that throughthe sufferings, death and atonement of Jesus Christ all mankind, without one exception,are to be completely and fully redeemed... [of] Adam's transgression..." (Articles ofFaith, p. 477).
Thus, the atonement and death of Jesus on the cross actually only forgives mankind ofAdam's original sin. How then is man forgiven of his own personal sin? In the ImprovementEra, an official periodical of the LDS Church, Joseph Fielding Smith, tenth prophet,explained the solution. "Our Eternal Father would have every soul saved if that werefeasible. Salvation, however, is based on merit and obedience to divine law and thereforeis only obtained through compliance with divine commandments" (Nov. 1965, p. 962).
"Men have work to do if they would obtain salvation." (Doctrines ofsalvation vol.3 p.91)
"Individual (salvation) that which man merits through his own acts throughlife and by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel." (Doctrines ofsalvation vol.1 p.134)
"The forsaking of sin must be a permanent one. True repentancedoes NOT permit making the same mistake again." (Spencer W. Kimball, RepentanceBrings Forgiveness, Page 7)
"We also have to forsake the sin and never to repeat it not even in our minds,in order to remain forgiven we must never commit the sin again (Mormon MissionaryDiscussion F, Uniform systems for teaching families p.35-36)
11 Nephi 25:23 says that in order to be saved you must do all that youcan do. Are you doing all that you can do? Have you repeated your sin? The idea ofperfection in this life has been proposed by numerous people over the centuries, and whileour weakness is not a legitimate excuse for practicing sin in reality no one has theability not even monks to rid themselves of sin or not repeat it. Doctrines like thisoperate from pride. As soon as one thinks they have become humble walking in perfectobedience they have pride which is the basis of operation for almost all sins especiallyfalse doctrine.
Joseph Fielding Smith. Under the sub-heading "Misinterpretation of Texts,"Smith discussed Ephesians 2:8-10 in this way: "There are various opinions concerningthe virtue and requirements of salvation. Misinterpretation of Paul's words has led tomuch confusion and rejection of the full gospel plan.
"Failure to comprehend the two-fold purpose of the atonement has caused many tobelieve that all that is essential for salvation is to confess the name of JesusChrist." "Those who teach the doctrine of 'faith alone' are searching for an'easy road to heaven.' ... Someone has referred to them as Bible Christians - theirreligion is in the Bible and not very much in themselves," (Religious Truths Defined,1961 ed., p. 267).
Smith is actually correct. As Biblical Christians we do putour faith inthe teachings of the Bible and not in our own works. But it was not an easy road, becauseChrist had to suffer through his life and ultimately on the cross to obtain it for us.They practice a cross-less Christianity. And we are to walk in his footsteps by picking upthe cross and denying self. Mormonism operates on the very opposite basis that all is done. Instead one can obtain the right to be a god on their ownplanet, just as all other gods before them. They are striving for an illusive butterfly.You can say their prophet's, over promise and their religion falls way short of itsdelivery.
ninja007
Gold Member
IN THE BEGINNING MAN
Joseph Smith, "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man.... I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see. ...He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did..." (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 305-306).
"First God himself, who sits enthroned in yonder heavens, is a man unto one of yourselves, that is the great secret." (J.Smith jr. Times and seasons vol.5 p.613 Aug.15 1844) This secret became revealed by the modern day self appointed prophet Joseph Smith who in turn whispered it to all his followers. This has continually been passed down, so today there are 10 million believing it.
Apostle McConkie stated "God is an exalted man, perfected, enthroned, and supreme." (Mormon doctrine,p.250)
"First, we believe that God is a being with a body in form like man's; that he possesses body, parts and passions; that in a word, God is an exalted, perfected man" {Roberts conference of the Mutual Improvement Associations of the Salt Lake Stake of Zion, August 18,1901 published in both the Deseret News and the Improvement Era}
As man is, god once was; as God is, man may become."(Mormon Prophet Lorenzo Snow quoted in LDS Church News, Jan. 16, 1983, p. 14)
Mormonism teaches that man once a angel incarnated as corruptible man on earth to obey the Mormon gospel and be exalted as a God on another planet like all OTHER Gods before him.
"Adam was an immortal being when he came to this earth. He had lived on an earth similar to ours. He had received the priesthood and the keys thereof, and had been faithful in all things, and had gained his resurrection, and his exaltation and was crowned with glory, immortality and eternal lives, and was numbered with the Gods, for such he became through his faithfulness. (Brigham Young quoted in the Journal of L. John Nuttall, Feb 7, 1887)
"First God himself, who sits enthroned in yonder heavens, is a man unto one of yourselves, that is the great secret." (J. Smith jr. Times and seasons vol.5 p.613, Aug.15 1844) Is this a great secret or is it a great lie that has it been fed over and over again that it has become believable. It has been said you tell a lie long and hard enough and sooner or later the people will believe it.
Official LDS scripture writes of "the Gods" creating the earth (Abraham 4:3-5:14).
If man is trying to become God or a god it will never happen. The ultimate evil is to call oneself God. Israel was strictly monotheistic Duet.6:4 stating I am and there is no others. Mormonism teaches that there are trillions of Gods. The Mormon religion is pagan disguised as Christianity. They receive this information from their prophets. Duet 13 and 18 tell us of what a true prophet is. If someone speaks as a polytheistic prophet you are a false monotheistic prophet. how do we know a true one from a false one. If their prophecies do not come to pass and if they distort the nature of God and lead the people to other Gods. Mormonism qualifies for all three of these. Who is the god of Mormonism? In Mormonism the current living prophet is more important than the former biblical prophets. So what they have written is ignored. Their God is not the eternal God of the scriptures, he is a man who has progressed to Godhood. If God has become God from his deeds then he is not the eternal creator but a self exalted man a fake.
In Mormonism we have a God who was not always god but is an exalted man made from another who was first a man and so on backwards in time.
The God of the Bible is presented as always existing, He is unchangeable the only thing existing that is unchangeable. The Mormon God was not there from before time but received his position by becoming a man first and keeping the laws and ordinances of their church which came to be recently in the 1800's. Mormons need to understand there is no stairway to heaven, exaltation is a myth that will be disintegrated when Christ comes back. Either your for Jesus or not, one will either bow their knee to him now and confess he is Lord to the glory of the father, or it will be done later with all the unbelievers. He shares his position with no one.
From Ps.82 many LDS leaders have called themselves, "gods in embryo" (The Miracle of Forgiveness, p.286).This scripture has been abused by more God wanna be’s than any other.
Man is made in Gods image which means a moral likeness relating to express his nature, When Jesus quoted this verse in Jn.10:34 After the Jews accuse Jesus of blasphemy because he being a man claimed to be God he answers "Is it not written in your law I said 'You are Gods." He is not saying they are all Gods just as he is God! When Jesus repeats I said ye are gods, he couldn’t mean they are God in any way like God is. Because in Mormonism they have to progress. Gen 3:5"For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." If Eve or Adam were already god there would be no need to tempt them to be like Him. In Gen.3:22 it tells us that God said, man had become like one of us, by knowing good and evil. It was after we fell that we became like him, not when we were created. How did we become like him? By knowing evil along with the good, evil was something that God wanted to keep from us. So whatever is meant for one to be called " like god", it was not a good thing at all.
Satan is a god (ruler) but this does not exclude him from being a fallen angel which is illustrated in Ps 82:6-8 "I said, 'You are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High. But you shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes." This was addressed to the judges of Israel they were called gods not because they were divine but because they represented god when they judged the people. The word Elohim is applied to an aspect of God, as God was also to be ruler and judge over the people so He installed human rulers to do the same (see Deut.19:17-18).
He said this in the tense that they were presently gods. Jesus uses this to pronounce sentence on there being judges who were not ruling over the people correctly. Instead they were showing partiality to the wicked and neglected in defending the weak. He is conveying if unjust judges are called to rule with power and authority, how much more the Son of God whose authority they rejected.
Notice Ps.82:6 says they "will die as mere men and fall as one of the princes", that prince was Satan. This is sarcasm, Jesus is saying "the scripture cannot be broken" referring to the Psalm. They thought they were like God but they will die as mere men. It is then they will know the difference between the creator the true God and their own mortality of man. Ps.82 ends with verse 8 "Arise, 0 God, judge the earth; for You shall inherit all nations." It points to there being one God who eventually will judge and rule over everyone. The God’s that have not made heaven and earth will perish Jer.10:11. If Jesus is not the creator its goodbye to him and any other new God that comes along. This certainly means all the Gods of Mormonism.
Joseph F. Smith the sixth prophet of the LDS Church said this of Jesus, "Among the spirit children of Elohim, the first-born was and is Jehovah, or Jesus Christ, to whom all others are juniors," (Gospel Doctrine, p. 70). Even Jesus was made by the bigger God before him, so what we have is a genealogy of Gods Grandpa great grandpa great great grandpa.
(Purpose of life pamphlet) "We all once lived in the presence of God the eternal father. In the world before your were a spirit child of his. " "In the heaven where are spirits were born, there are many Gods, each of whom has his own wife or wives, which were given to him…while yet in this mortal state"(Orson Pratt the seer p.37). Mormonism teaches that we were born to a god who had sex and we then are born spirits. That he is able to have an adulterous affair in heaven after all he was denied this as a man.
Pres. Hinckley declared that, "Each [human being] is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents..."(Sept. 23, 1995 "The Family: A Proclamation to the World" ).
Pre-existence is not taught in Christianity. Mormonism is really Greek philosophy in disguise. They were teaching this long before J. Smiths counterfeit Christian revelations.
"Before time began the soul was without a body, an archetype, the heavenly man pure in spirit in paradise , yet longing after the archetype, God. Some of the pure spirits descended into bodies and lost their purity (Plato and the Stoics philosophy)
Notice the similarity in Orson Pratt's statement," that before men and women are born on earth as babies, their spirits are adult size in heaven. When they are born, their Spirits are compressed, which causes a loss in memory (Journal of Discourses vol.16 p.333-334). This is what the Hindu religion teaches. preexistence as spirits and incarnating as humans. Memory loss as in karma from the life before.
Here's what the God of the Universe said.1 Cor. 8:5-6 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords) yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. He is speaking to the Corinthians who had a background of worshipping the Greek Gods pagan gods and idols. He was writing in the sentence before this about idols and continues addressing them afterward.
J. Feilding Smith the 10th prophet of the Mormon church claimed. "If his claims and declarations were built upon fraud and deceit, there would appear many errors and contradictions, which would be easy to detect…the world has been unable to place a finger upon anything that is inconsistent, or out of harmony in the revelations to Joseph smith, with that which has been revealed before, or predicted by the prophets and the Lord himself." (Doctrines of Salvation Vol.1p.188-189)
Amazing that one can read the OT and find something different than people that have read it for thousands of years. Dr. Hugh Nibley had boasted: "Yet of all churches in the world only this one has not found it necessary to readjust any part of its doctrine in the last hundred years." Really , maybe this is a case of spiritual amnesia or something else! I guess when your a potential god you can change your mind anytime you want to! (Polygamy, blacks and the priesthood)
Isa. 42:16 " I will bring the blind by a way they did not know; I will lead them in paths they have not known. I will make darkness light before them, and crooked places straight. These things I will do for them, and not forsake them."
Isa. 5:20 "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
They turned the truth into a lie and a lie into the truth. In Mormonism we have a God who was not always God but is originally an exalted man. But who made this exalted man? Another exalted man. If one worships this exalted man it is creature worship, not creator worship. They are worshipping an offspring of another creature. So no matter how far one goes back, there is always a man. Rom. 1 condemns creature worship. A god who was not always God is illogical and a self defeating statement. Since God is eternal in his nature He logically had to exist before anything was created. How can one who was created become the everlasting God? What is created has a cause and is finite what is uncreated has no cause and is infinite. What is created is dependent on another who is greater. The Mormon god is not the eternal god but a man who has progressed by being sent to earth as a spirit creature who then becomes a perfected human and is exalted to being a god on his own planet.
We can now change Gen.1:1 to in the beginning man!
I think God has a plan for the three revelations.
Cougarbear
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I know the Plan.
This information is taken from the Utah Lighthouse Ministries which is known as an anti Mormon site and has been for a long time. If you wish to really know what we believe and why we believe, I would suggest going directly to the source at the Church's website at Homepage - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
When men become god's throughout the universe
Isaiah 43:10
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Psalms 90:2
2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
In Isaiah 43:10 above we read that before God there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. But what does this verse really mean? Ninja007 would have you believe that there are absolutely no Gods outside of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. When speaking of the one who is God of this world and the only one whom we should worship in this world, yes, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are the only true God whom we on this earth should worship. But does this mean that there are no others whom are referred to as God? Let's take another look at the Bible and see what we can find:
Psalms 82:1
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Psalms 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Here we read that God judgeth among the gods! God then tells us that we are gods! Jesus refers back to Psalms 82:6 and tells the Jews that He said, "Ye are gods" and uses this to justify that calling himself the son of God was not blasphemy! Obviously Jesus tells us that there are other gods beside the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. He tells us that we, who are on this earth, are gods. So, going back to Isaiah 43:10 we can conclude that God is speaking of there only being one God whom we are to praise and worship. There is no other God whom we should pray to or give obedience to beside the God who is the supreme ruler over we who are on this earth. There is none before Him and there is none after him that we are to worship. But this does not mean that there were none who are called gods. Even Jesus recognizes that we are gods and that there were gods whom he stood in the congregation with. There is only one who is our supreme ruler and maker and that is the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost and these three are the one true God who rules over us.
Psalms 90:2 tells us that God is God from everlasting to everlasting. But does this mean that God was the ruling God of this world from eternity past or does this mean something else? We LDS believe that before we came to this earth we lived in eternity with God or in other words, everlasting. When we least this mortal existence we will again return to the realm of eternity or everlasting. Thus when we hear the phrase, "from everlasting to everlasting" or "from eternity to all eternity" we believe this has reference to the state of existence before this temporary mortal existence and th the state of existence after this temporary mortal existence. Thus to say that God is God from everlasting to everlasting does not necessarily mean that he was God for an infinite past but that he was God before this temporal mortal existence (known as everlasting or eternity) and will be God after this temporal mortal existence (known as everlasting or eternity). Thus God is God from before this mortal existence and is God after this mortal existence.
Yes, we believe that we are gods because we are the literal offspring of God and are his children. But we also believe that we too can become like our Father in heaven as Jesus has commanded us to become:
Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
And as John tells us that we can become perfect as one even as Jesus is one with the Father
John 17:20-23
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
We believe that if one can become perfect in one even as Jesus is perfect in one with the Father then you truly will become a God.
Cougarbear
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Now, aside from that, let's just look at one of your points. The one that Onefour1 answered. He is correct with everything as he took the concepts straight from the Bible. If you want to tear out those pages from your Bible, you can. It's your freedom to do so. But, that doesn't solve the issue. So, read and study his response as you hope he studied yours. And, it's obvious that he did. I will add another thought. God is the God of this universe. The scriptures say so. What about other universes? You claim the planet that God is from is a planet in this universe. That's not what any LDS prophet or scholar has ever said. There is but one God (Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost) for this universe. God's God is not involved at all. Nada. Nothing. Zero.
The other thing is that there is no clarity in even our scriptures of this concept that "As man is now, God once was. And, as God is now, man may become." The references you use are not part of our doctrinal scriptures. They are compilations of talks, things people "heard" and lots of hearsay. The things supposedly stated by Joseph Smith or Brigham Young are often things people remembered or heard them say. Does that mean we don't believe they are true or mostly true? Of course not. The scriptures make sense that we can inherit all that the Lord has. That in itself suggests we will progress to a point to inherit our universe and have our spirit children on an earth much where we are today as children of our Heavenly Father.
This is just one answer of your post and the nonsense that Utah Lighthouse Ministries puts out to try and destroy faith in the Lord Jesus Christ of the members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The above can be likened unto this world. We all have a single Father who gave birth to us here on this earth. To the children of any given Father, there is but one Father and he alone is to be known as the father of your flesh. Yet there are many Fathers in the world. So too, we on this earth have but only one Father in heaven. He alone is the Father of our spirit. We are to worship him and no other God. God the Father is the Father over all his kingdom. He is the supreme ruler of his universe and kingdom and is the only one whom his children are to worship. However, we do not believe that he is the only Heavenly Father that exists. We believe there are other universes and kingdoms that are ruled by other Heavenly Fathers or Gods. We believe that mankind has the potential to grow up and become like Father in Heaven. We believe that there are worlds without number that our Father in heaven has created, yet we believe that there is infinite space and other kingdoms of heaven that exist in the eternities. Yes, we believe that it is possible to fulfill the commandment of Jesus Christ to become perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect. Yes, we believe that we can become perfect in one even as Jesus is perfect in one with the Father. We can become just like them. This is a teaching of the Bible. Just as this world has many Fathers yet each one of us only has one father that has begotten us, so too there are many Father's in heaven who have their own children and their own kingdoms. The Bible tells us that we should become as perfect as our Father in Heaven and to become perfect in one even as Jesus is perfect in one with the Father. Yes we believe that the Father was once as we are now and has become as his Father in heaven and now has his own children on his own worlds. To be God from everlasting to everlasting simply means that you are God before you create a world and are still God after that world passes from a mortal sphere to an immortal sphere. It is the way mortal mankind views God. He was God before the world was made and is God after the mortal world passes into eternity. He is God from the state of eternity before the mortal world and is God in the eternal state after this mortal world. He is from eternity to all eternity or from everlasting to everlasting. We do not believe this phrase means that God was God for an infinite past. We do however believe that the intelligence of mankind has always existed and that mankind have an intelligence within them that has always existed and will always exist. We are eternal in nature.
The Apostle Paul gives us the following:
1 Corinthians 8:4-6
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
The Apostle Paul gives us the following:
1 Corinthians 8:4-6
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
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I haven't claimed to be anything other than grateful for the gifts given to me by God. I can never claim to "supercede" God because my entire faith and spirituality is from God.
Cougarbear
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The Bible is clear, “authority” is given by the laying on of hands. To give yourself the priesthood is usurping God’s authoritative commandment of how we receive authority. Other than that, your faith is yours because it only involves you.
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When did I give myself the priesthood? I am most humbled and grateful for everything God has given me and at times - my zeal awakens, creating passion - but I would never claim "priesthood". Catholic priests need to go to 8-9 years of seminary school to be anointed Catholic Priests - and then are instructed to live very challenging lives - lives that most people on Earth would not choose to live.
As far as what Catholics believe:
Catholics believe that Melchizedek was a prefiguration of the priesthood of Christ(CCC 1544).[9] In Genesis 14:18, Melchizedek offers a sacrifice of bread and wine. Catholics believe that Christ therefore fulfilled the prophecy of Ps 110:4, that he would be a priest "after the order of Melchizedek" at the Last Supper, when he initiated the sacrifice of the New Covenant with his disciples— his body and blood under the appearances of bread and wine. Melchizedek and his offering are explicitly referenced as a foreshadowing of the Sacrifice of the Mass in the liturgical prayers of the Roman Canon of the Catholic Mass. Catholic priests, in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, are priests inasmuch as they participate(CCC 1547) in the one priesthood of Christ according to the order of Melchizedek due to their ordination.
Priesthood of Melchizedek - Wikipedia
Cougarbear
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Why do they have strange orders that are after the order of others like Franciscans or Jesuits? Paul continued to use Melchizedek decades after the atonement was complete. Same with the order after Aaron. And, did Peter or any of the apostles have to go to seminary for 8 or 9 years to perform their duties? They only need the laying on of hands.When did I give myself the priesthood? I am most humbled and grateful for everything God has given me and at times - my zeal awakens, creating passion - but I would never claim "priesthood". Catholic priests need to go to 8-9 years of seminary school to be anointed Catholic Priests - and then are instructed to live very challenging lives - lives that most people on Earth would not choose to live.
As far as what Catholics believe:
Catholics believe that Melchizedek was a prefiguration of the priesthood of Christ(CCC 1544).[9] In Genesis 14:18, Melchizedek offers a sacrifice of bread and wine. Catholics believe that Christ therefore fulfilled the prophecy of Ps 110:4, that he would be a priest "after the order of Melchizedek" at the Last Supper, when he initiated the sacrifice of the New Covenant with his disciples— his body and blood under the appearances of bread and wine. Melchizedek and his offering are explicitly referenced as a foreshadowing of the Sacrifice of the Mass in the liturgical prayers of the Roman Canon of the Catholic Mass. Catholic priests, in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, are priests inasmuch as they participate(CCC 1547) in the one priesthood of Christ according to the order of Melchizedek due to their ordination.
Priesthood of Melchizedek - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
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Do you believe that taking vows of poverty, while focusing on even more advanced education and be instructed to live lives as Jesus led on Earth - being selfless, helping the poor, teaching a ministry with a focus on Jesus and his core values/teachings is "strange"?
The Jesuits and Franciscans are among the two most respected and revered orders of the Church. If you go to mass on Sunday and you hear that a Jesuit Priest will be saying the mass and homily, a tenured Catholic would know to pay attention - because they have the knowledge - and the wisdom they have is truthful - it manifests itself by the lives they live. They are the "real deal".
Peter and the Apostles received their education from "the source itself" - they lived it, breathed it and went through it - Jesus' ministry is as much a part of them as it was his own. But even the original Apostles themselves - in early times - Specifically Peter and Paul had disagreements over who to minister to, how to minister, the Law/Prophets - how they relate to Christianity - and even over (what is still disputed today among Christians) being"saved by grace" with or without "works".
Now imagine establishing a worldwide church, in Roman times - after being persecuted for the previous 100 - 300 years by the same Romans you are now establishing the Church for. Strict guidelines in regards to teachings, order, education, and so forth had to have been established - and to this day the Catholic Church is one of the few Churches of the world that a person attending mass in Boston hears the same readings and Gospel as a person attending church in Japan or Italy or Lebanon, etc.
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