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Zone1 Do Christians Proselytize out of “Love” - or Arrogance?

Lisa558

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Having been on the receiving end of Evangelical Christians‘ relentless attempts to get me to abandon my religion (Judaism), I have often heard them say they do it out of love to “share the Truth.” The attempt to convert usually escalates to dire warnings of the hell that awaits and how angry G-d is with Jews.

So is this really love? There are numerous religions in the world, with the majority of people not believing in Jesus, and one‘s religious beliefs are as much the truth to them as Christians beliefs are to Christians.

In this article, it explains how force-feeding one’s religious beliefs onto others, with the insistence that their way and only their way is the path to G-d, is both arrogant and disrespectful. I hope that those who have been aggressively proselytizing will give it some thought.

 

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Arrogance​

Didn't you just know when you started this thread Lisa558 that the biggest, least intelligent mouth on this board was going to be unable to resist chiming in?

One of the things I admire most about Jews is the fact that they don't proselytize. I strongly dislike any religious proselytizing.
 

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Obviously, as with any group numbering in the millions, the answer is both, DEPENDING on the individual.


I used to get questioned by Orthodox Jews leaving a certain grocery store, if I was jewish. I asked one once, what would happen if the answer had been "yes", and he said they would have invited me to attend a ritual.

I found them to be respectful and polite, and I considered their... belief in their own culture and faith to be a healthy sign for their community.

Even if their goals and faith meant nothing to me personally.
 
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Lisa558

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Didn't you just know when you started this thread Lisa558 that the biggest, least intelligent mouth on this board was going to be unable to resist chiming in?

One of the things I admire most about Jews is the fact that they don't proselytize.
Except this is the first time I’ve ever agreed with her. It IS arrogance.

And yes, perhaps one of the reasons I’m so put off by proselytizing is that Judaism doesn’t do that type of thing. Of course, we welcome in converts, but we don’t actively seek them out.
 

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Having been on the receiving end of Evangelical Christians‘ relentless attempts to get me to abandon my religion (Judaism), I have often heard them say they do it out of love to “share the Truth.” The attempt to convert usually escalates to dire warnings of the hell that awaits and how angry G-d is with Jews.

So is this really love? There are numerous religions in the world, with the majority of people not believing in Jesus, and one‘s religious beliefs are as much the truth to them as Christians beliefs are to Christians.

In this article, it explains how force-feeding one’s religious beliefs onto others, with the insistence that their way and only their way is the path to G-d, is both arrogant and disrespectful. I hope that those who have been aggressively proselytizing will give it some thought.

So truth is relative? Proselytizing is force feeding? So those who disagree with you are arrogant and disrespectful?

Sounds like you're preaching, proselytizing, judging, and the like. You better zip that up.
 
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Lisa558

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Obviously, as with any group numbering in the millions, the answer is both, DEPENDING on the individual.


I used to get questioned by Orthodox Jews leaving a certain grocery store, if I was jewish. I asked one once, what would happen if the answer had been "yes", and he said they would have invited me to attend a ritual.

I found them to be respectful and polite, and I considered their... belief in their own culture and faith to be a healthy sign for their community.

Even if their goals and faith meant nothing to me personally.

Thank you,

And yes, Orthodox Jews actively invite other Jews to participate in the traditions and rituals. (I myself am on the mailing list of an Orthodox synagogue, and I’ve occasionally gone to some of their events). But they don’t seek out non-Jews and try to convert them.
 

SweetSue92

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Having been on the receiving end of Evangelical Christians‘ relentless attempts to get me to abandon my religion (Judaism), I have often heard them say they do it out of love to “share the Truth.” The attempt to convert usually escalates to dire warnings of the hell that awaits and how angry G-d is with Jews.

So is this really love? There are numerous religions in the world, with the majority of people not believing in Jesus, and one‘s religious beliefs are as much the truth to them as Christians beliefs are to Christians.

In this article, it explains how force-feeding one’s religious beliefs onto others, with the insistence that their way and only their way is the path to G-d, is both arrogant and disrespectful. I hope that those who have been aggressively proselytizing will give it some thought.


I would be interested to know what you consider our attempts to get you to abandon your religion. That is, in this forum I often post Bible verses, tell Christian truths, etc. I put it out there for consideration like I put all ideas here out for consideration--you are free to accept, reject or table, same as all my other assertions. But some people think every time a Christian posts "Jesus Christ is the Son of God" or some such, it's force-feeding.

The article makes clear that the woman feels damaged by her childhood Christianity. I see that a lot, even here on USMB. That's a separate issue that arguing a religion on its merits (not an invalid issue, but separate). She thinks our belief that Jesus Christ is the only way to God "arrogant" because she's angry, maybe even bitter.

As you see, there is a lot that goes into "keep it to yourself". And it's usually personal, tbh.
 
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Lisa558

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So truth is relative? Proselytizing is force feeding? So those who disagree with you are arrogant and disrespectful?

Sounds like you're preaching, proselytizing, judging, and the like. You better zip that up.
^^^ And here is what I’m talking about.

Where did I say that people who disagree with me are arrogant and disrespectful? It’s people jamming their beliefs down my throat, warning me that I will go to hell if I don’t abandon Judaism, and getting angry and argumentative when I won’t.

Thanks for demonstrating my point.
 
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Lisa558

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I would be interested to know what you consider our attempts to get you to abandon your religion. That is, in this forum I often post Bible verses, tell Christian truths, etc. I put it out there for consideration like I put all ideas here out for consideration--you are free to accept, reject or table, same as all my other assertions. But some people think every time a Christian posts "Jesus Christ is the Son of God" or some such, force-feeding.

The article makes clear that the woman feels damaged by her childhood Christianity. I see that a lot, even here on USMB. That's a separate issue that arguing a religion on its merits (not an invalid issue, but separate). She thinks our belief that Jesus Christ is the only way to God "arrogant" because she's angry, maybe even bitter.

As you see, there is a lot that goes into "keep it to yourself". And it's usually personal, tbh.
The answer was in your first sentence: I am free to accept or reject as I choose.

And I’ve had no problem with Christians who invite me to their church, in an attempt of course to expose me to their religion and hope I might want to consider it further. When I say, politely of course, that I’d prefer not to, if they let it go at that point, all is good.

The problem comes in when they start to escalate due to frustration in being unable to convert me. I have been warned that I will burn in hell….that the only way to G-d is through Jesus…..and that G-d is angry with Jews but that He will “forgive me” if I become Christian. It is this heavy-handed insistence that is disrespectful to others’ beliefs, and arrogant in the idea Christianity is the only “right” religion and the others are wrong.
 

SweetSue92

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^^^ And here is what I’m talking about.

Where did I say that people who disagree with me are arrogant and disrespectful? It’s people jamming their beliefs down my throat, warning me that I will go to hell if I don’t abandon Judaism, and getting angry and argumentative when I won’t.

Thanks for demonstrating my point.

I would be interested to know in what context this happens. Family? Friends? Coworkers? Street evangelists? Message boards?
 

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^^^ And here is what I’m talking about.

Where did I say that people who disagree with me are arrogant and disrespectful? It’s people jamming their beliefs down my throat, warning me that I will go to hell if I don’t abandon Judaism, and getting angry and argumentative when I won’t.

Thanks for demonstrating my point.
Did they jam them all the way down your throat?

I'm sorry but you're not to be taken seriously.

By the way, stop judging my judgment.
 

SweetSue92

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The answer was in your first sentence: I am free to accept or reject as I choose.

And I’ve had no problem with Christians who invite me to their church, in an attempt of course to expose me to their religion and hope I might want to consider it further. When I say, politely of course, that I’d prefer not to, if they let it go at that point, all is good.

The problem comes in when they start to escalate due to frustration in being unable to convert me. I have been warned that I will burn in hell….that the only way to G-d is through Jesus…..and that G-d is angry with Jews but that He will “forgive me” if I become Christian. It is this heavy-handed insistence that is disrespectful to others’ beliefs, and arrogant in the idea Christianity is the only “right” religion and the others are wrong.

Well see I come from the Reformed tradition. So we believe that though it is our job to share the Good Word (we should do that so it seems like what it is...good btw), the Holy Spirit alone draws people to God. So once I have presented information, my job is done as far as "converting"--which I cannot do at any rate. It's above my pay grade.
 
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Lisa558

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I would be interested to know in what context this happens. Family? Friends? Coworkers? Street evangelists? Message boards?
Occasionally message boards, but most often neighbors who know me as Jewish.
 
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Lisa558

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Well see I come from the Reformed tradition. So we believe that though it is our job to share the Good Word (we should do that so it seems like what it is...good btw), the Holy Spirit alone draws people to God. So once I have presented information, my job is done as far as "converting"--which I cannot do at any rate. It's above my pay grade.
Thank you. And that’s all I ask. It’s the refusal to “let up” on it that’s the problem.
 

SweetSue92

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Arrogance​


Christians believe we are sinners wholly incapable of saving ourselves on our own. Nothing we can do--nothing--would earn us Heaven. The Bible calls all our attempts at such "filthy rags".

That doesn't seem like arrogance to me.

I think when people say Christians are arrogant it's because we seem sure we are right, AND we assert that Jesus Christ is the only way to God. It's like we expect people to be unsure and wishy-washy about what should be one of the most essential concerns of their life: what happens after we die. Why are we required to be unsure about that if we feel we've been given an answer?
 
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Lisa558

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Christians believe we are sinners wholly incapable of saving ourselves on our own. Nothing we can do--nothing--would earn us Heaven. The Bible calls all our attempts at such "filthy rags".

That doesn't seem like arrogance to me.

I think when people say Christians are arrogant it's because we seem sure we are right, AND we assert that Jesus Christ is the only way to God. It's like we expect people to be unsure and wishy-washy about what should be one of the most essential concerns of their life: what happens after we die. Why are we required to be unsure about that if we feel we've been given an answer?
But I too have been given an answer, and it’s a different one than you’ve been given. We are taught that G-d forgives us directly when we seek it from Him, as long as we try to do better (and knowing we are all far from perfect).

And again, the arrogance is not in your beliefs. You are free to believe how you choose, and if you believe you need faith in Jesus to get to Heaven, that‘s fine. The arrogance is when you (the generic you - not you specifically ) start to strong-arm Jews into abandoning Judaism and believing your way with all sorts of dire warnings.

To each his own, as far as religion goes.
 

SweetSue92

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But I too have been given an answer, and it’s a different one than you’ve been given. We are taught that G-d forgives us directly when we seek it from Him, as long as we try to do better (and knowing we are all far from perfect).

And again, the arrogance is not in your beliefs. You are free to believe how you choose, and if you believe you need faith in Jesus to get to Heaven, that‘s fine. The arrogance is when you (the generic you - not you specifically ) start to strong-arm Jews into abandoning Judaism and believing your way with all sorts of dire warnings.

To each his own, as far as religion goes.

This is reasonable and fair.

But I believe the writer of the article thinks our beliefs alone are arrogant, because we have found "the way". Many people think that about Christianity. The Left has decided that Judaism and Christianity are the two religions that are acceptable to attack, so....
 
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Lisa558

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This is reasonable and fair.

But I believe the writer of the article thinks our beliefs alone are arrogant, because we have found "the way". Many people think that about Christianity. The Left has decided that Judaism and Christianity are the two religions that are acceptable to attack, so....
That’s not what I got out of the article. How can anyone’s BELIEFS be arrogant? It is the insistence to others that those beliefs are the only right ones that is arrogant and disrespectful.

As far as the left, I agree...for some reason, they are very tolerant (if not outright promoting) bigotry of Christians and Jews, while defending Muslims. A good topic for a different thread would be “why”?
 

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