Can atheist enjoy the Bible?

[rightwinger]

Are atheist allowed to enjoy the Bible?

Can atheist dig deeper into one of the bigger influences of English/American development?

Can atheists study and/or practice the ethics taught by Christ in the gospels?

Can atheists gain inspiration from the colorful and powerful stories of the Bible?

or do atheists have an obligation to hate the Bible?

The answer - to all of these questions, I think - would be it depends upon their motivation for reading the Books of the Bible. It would also depend upon how one defines enjoyment. After all... sadists enjoy tearing the wings off of live flies, right? Not saying atheists are sadists but if they are reading these accounts to make themselves feel superior for their own enjoyment, then the answer for all of the questions except the last one is no.

Ding is slippery as pond algae

I used to say they should read it first so they wouldn't look so stupid in discussions about it, but it turns out I was wrong; they're so screwed up it just makes them dumber and more ridiculous. My bad.

It all depends on their motivation. If they are reading it in context for meaning, that's one thing. If they are reading it to confirm their bias, then why bother at all.

Is not believing what you read a bias?

No. Reading to confirm not believing is the bias. And totally unnecessary and a waste of time.

No one should ever read the Bible expecting to be convinced God exists.

I was taught the Bible as though it were a fact. Even as a young child I was able to conclude it is more of a morality tale.

You talk of bias, are you able to look at the Bible as possibly not true or are you afraid of what might happen to you?

 

[DudleySmith]

The bible is an excellent piece of literature,

I have read better books and they were written by mere mortal men.

No, you haven't. Lord of the Rings wasn't really that great, no matter what a bunch of hippie stoners say about it.

You would think a Supreme Being would be a better writer

It's way over your head, so you wouldn't know about that either.

Lord of the Rings is full of Christian symbolism. J.R.R. Tolkien was a devout Catholic.

But it is not a bible or a religious cannon. Tolkien plagiarized from what he knew, in an era where most adults had a somewhat common education, most often what was termed a 'classical' one, and would know the symbolism and its higher meanings, while also being a source of wonder and vicarious fantastic adventures for young readers, making them more curious and wanting more. It is more popular than other, better, writings because of its length and it's 'discovery' by hippie stoners in the 1960's. I don't hate the books, but they get tedious, repetitive, and bland after the first book.

 

[DudleySmith]

Are atheist allowed to enjoy the Bible?

Can atheist dig deeper into one of the bigger influences of English/American development?

Can atheists study and/or practice the ethics taught by Christ in the gospels?

Can atheists gain inspiration from the colorful and powerful stories of the Bible?

or do atheists have an obligation to hate the Bible?

The answer - to all of these questions, I think - would be it depends upon their motivation for reading the Books of the Bible. It would also depend upon how one defines enjoyment. After all... sadists enjoy tearing the wings off of live flies, right? Not saying atheists are sadists but if they are reading these accounts to make themselves feel superior for their own enjoyment, then the answer for all of the questions except the last one is no.

Ding is slippery as pond algae

I used to say they should read it first so they wouldn't look so stupid in discussions about it, but it turns out I was wrong; they're so screwed up it just makes them dumber and more ridiculous. My bad.

It all depends on their motivation. If they are reading it in context for meaning, that's one thing. If they are reading it to confirm their bias, then why bother at all.

True.

 

[Mindful]

The bible is an excellent piece of literature,

I have read better books and they were written by mere mortal men.

No, you haven't. Lord of the Rings wasn't really that great, no matter what a bunch of hippie stoners say about it.

You would think a Supreme Being would be a better writer

It's way over your head, so you wouldn't know about that either.

Lord of the Rings is full of Christian symbolism. J.R.R. Tolkien was a devout Catholic.

CS Lewis was the religious one.

 

[DudleySmith]

The bible is an excellent piece of literature,

I have read better books and they were written by mere mortal men.

No, you haven't. Lord of the Rings wasn't really that great, no matter what a bunch of hippie stoners say about it.

You would think a Supreme Being would be a better writer

It's way over your head, so you wouldn't know about that either.

Lord of the Rings is full of Christian symbolism. J.R.R. Tolkien was a devout Catholic.

CS Lewis was the religious one.

His writing was just as good as well, though I only read a couple of his.

 

[ding]

Are atheist allowed to enjoy the Bible?

Can atheist dig deeper into one of the bigger influences of English/American development?

Can atheists study and/or practice the ethics taught by Christ in the gospels?

Can atheists gain inspiration from the colorful and powerful stories of the Bible?

or do atheists have an obligation to hate the Bible?

The answer - to all of these questions, I think - would be it depends upon their motivation for reading the Books of the Bible. It would also depend upon how one defines enjoyment. After all... sadists enjoy tearing the wings off of live flies, right? Not saying atheists are sadists but if they are reading these accounts to make themselves feel superior for their own enjoyment, then the answer for all of the questions except the last one is no.

Ding is slippery as pond algae

I used to say they should read it first so they wouldn't look so stupid in discussions about it, but it turns out I was wrong; they're so screwed up it just makes them dumber and more ridiculous. My bad.

It all depends on their motivation. If they are reading it in context for meaning, that's one thing. If they are reading it to confirm their bias, then why bother at all.

Is not believing what you read a bias?

No. Reading to confirm not believing is the bias. And totally unnecessary and a waste of time.

No one should ever read the Bible expecting to be convinced God exists.

I was taught the Bible as though it were a fact. Even as a young child I was able to conclude it is more of a morality tale.

You talk of bias, are you able to look at the Bible as possibly not true or are you afraid of what might happen to you?

I wasn't taught that way. I was taught it was a compilation of many different books and that each book and sometimes chapters within a book had to be read within its proper context. And that part of that was understanding the literary style the book or chapter was written in and the times, customs and traditions.

You would have to be specific on which book or chapters you are asking about. I don't read allegorical accounts of historical events literally. Often times the narratives are embellished. Sometimes for good reason like they are weaving in a moral or they are sensationalizing it so that it will be more memorable and easier to remember and pass down. You have to realize that storytelling was how they passed down information, knowledge, history and wisdom. Other times the embellishment was for less good reasons, like embellishing the numbers in Exodus or that God commanded this or that. Does that make them untrue in your eyes? Because if so, you are no different than those who think it is all true.

Why would I be afraid of what might happen to me?

 

[ding]

The bible is an excellent piece of literature,

I have read better books and they were written by mere mortal men.

No, you haven't. Lord of the Rings wasn't really that great, no matter what a bunch of hippie stoners say about it.

You would think a Supreme Being would be a better writer

It's way over your head, so you wouldn't know about that either.

Lord of the Rings is full of Christian symbolism. J.R.R. Tolkien was a devout Catholic.

CS Lewis was the religious one.

Actually, Tolkien was instrumental in the conversion of Lewis. He was a bit miffed that Lewis didn't become a Catholic. Which may have been why he criticized Lewis for not being more subtle with his weaving of Christianity in his works. So... I'm not sure you can make that claim. Besides, who cares?

 

[Mindful]

Besides, who cares?

You just did.

Classic Ding.

 

[ding]

Besides, who cares?

You just did.

Classic Ding.

Ok, toro

 

[Mindful]

Where was Christianity in LOTR?

More like Norse Gods than anything.

 

[ding]

Where was Christianity in LOTR?

More like Norse Gods than anything.

9 Things You Should Know About J. R. R. Tolkien

The Gospel Coalition is a fellowship of evangelical churches deeply committed to renewing our faith in the gospel of Christ

www.thegospelcoalition.org

9. Tolkien generally objected to overt religious allegory in stories (such as the Narnia novels by Lewis), but he nevertheless considered his fantasy stories to be influenced by his religious worldview:

The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like “religion,” to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism.

For Tolkien, fantasy and myths could reflect deeper truth:

“We have come from God and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, will also reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Indeed, only by myth-making, only by becoming a ‘sub-creator’ and inventing stories, can Man ascribe to the state of perfection that he knew before the fall.”

 

[Mindful]

Where was Christianity in LOTR?

More like Norse Gods than anything.

9 Things You Should Know About J. R. R. Tolkien

The Gospel Coalition is a fellowship of evangelical churches deeply committed to renewing our faith in the gospel of Christ

www.thegospelcoalition.org

9. Tolkien generally objected to overt religious allegory in stories (such as the Narnia novels by Lewis), but he nevertheless considered his fantasy stories to be influenced by his religious worldview:

The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like “religion,” to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism.

For Tolkien, fantasy and myths could reflect deeper truth:

“We have come from God and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, will also reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Indeed, only by myth-making, only by becoming a ‘sub-creator’ and inventing stories, can Man ascribe to the state of perfection that he knew before the fall.”

Do I need to buckle up for this latest lecture?

Maybe you should read The Silmarillion. It opens with an awesome description of the Creation.

 

[ding]

Where was Christianity in LOTR?

More like Norse Gods than anything.

9 Things You Should Know About J. R. R. Tolkien

The Gospel Coalition is a fellowship of evangelical churches deeply committed to renewing our faith in the gospel of Christ

www.thegospelcoalition.org

9. Tolkien generally objected to overt religious allegory in stories (such as the Narnia novels by Lewis), but he nevertheless considered his fantasy stories to be influenced by his religious worldview:

The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like “religion,” to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism.

For Tolkien, fantasy and myths could reflect deeper truth:

“We have come from God and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, will also reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Indeed, only by myth-making, only by becoming a ‘sub-creator’ and inventing stories, can Man ascribe to the state of perfection that he knew before the fall.”

Do I need to buckle up for this latest lecture?

Maybe you should read The Silmarillion. It opens with an awesome description of the Creation.

Always

Maybe

 

[Mindful]

Where was Christianity in LOTR?

More like Norse Gods than anything.

9 Things You Should Know About J. R. R. Tolkien

The Gospel Coalition is a fellowship of evangelical churches deeply committed to renewing our faith in the gospel of Christ

www.thegospelcoalition.org

9. Tolkien generally objected to overt religious allegory in stories (such as the Narnia novels by Lewis), but he nevertheless considered his fantasy stories to be influenced by his religious worldview:

The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like “religion,” to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism.

For Tolkien, fantasy and myths could reflect deeper truth:

“We have come from God and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, will also reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Indeed, only by myth-making, only by becoming a ‘sub-creator’ and inventing stories, can Man ascribe to the state of perfection that he knew before the fall.”

Do I need to buckle up for this latest lecture?

Maybe you should read The Silmarillion. It opens with an awesome description of the Creation.

Always

Maybe

Where was Christianity in LOTR?

More like Norse Gods than anything.

9 Things You Should Know About J. R. R. Tolkien

The Gospel Coalition is a fellowship of evangelical churches deeply committed to renewing our faith in the gospel of Christ

www.thegospelcoalition.org

9. Tolkien generally objected to overt religious allegory in stories (such as the Narnia novels by Lewis), but he nevertheless considered his fantasy stories to be influenced by his religious worldview:

The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like “religion,” to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism.

For Tolkien, fantasy and myths could reflect deeper truth:

“We have come from God and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, will also reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Indeed, only by myth-making, only by becoming a ‘sub-creator’ and inventing stories, can Man ascribe to the state of perfection that he knew before the fall.”

Do I need to buckle up for this latest lecture?

Maybe you should read The Silmarillion. It opens with an awesome description of the Creation.

Always

Maybe

 

[ding]

Where was Christianity in LOTR?

More like Norse Gods than anything.

9 Things You Should Know About J. R. R. Tolkien

The Gospel Coalition is a fellowship of evangelical churches deeply committed to renewing our faith in the gospel of Christ

www.thegospelcoalition.org

9. Tolkien generally objected to overt religious allegory in stories (such as the Narnia novels by Lewis), but he nevertheless considered his fantasy stories to be influenced by his religious worldview:

The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like “religion,” to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism.

For Tolkien, fantasy and myths could reflect deeper truth:

“We have come from God and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, will also reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Indeed, only by myth-making, only by becoming a ‘sub-creator’ and inventing stories, can Man ascribe to the state of perfection that he knew before the fall.”

Do I need to buckle up for this latest lecture?

Maybe you should read The Silmarillion. It opens with an awesome description of the Creation.

Always

Maybe

Where was Christianity in LOTR?

More like Norse Gods than anything.

9 Things You Should Know About J. R. R. Tolkien

The Gospel Coalition is a fellowship of evangelical churches deeply committed to renewing our faith in the gospel of Christ

www.thegospelcoalition.org

9. Tolkien generally objected to overt religious allegory in stories (such as the Narnia novels by Lewis), but he nevertheless considered his fantasy stories to be influenced by his religious worldview:

The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like “religion,” to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism.

For Tolkien, fantasy and myths could reflect deeper truth:

“We have come from God and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, will also reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Indeed, only by myth-making, only by becoming a ‘sub-creator’ and inventing stories, can Man ascribe to the state of perfection that he knew before the fall.”

Do I need to buckle up for this latest lecture?

Maybe you should read The Silmarillion. It opens with an awesome description of the Creation.

Always

Maybe

View attachment 479552

Why not?

 

[ding]

Are atheist allowed to enjoy the Bible?

Can atheist dig deeper into one of the bigger influences of English/American development?

Can atheists study and/or practice the ethics taught by Christ in the gospels?

Can atheists gain inspiration from the colorful and powerful stories of the Bible?

or do atheists have an obligation to hate the Bible?

View attachment 479375

“I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this life. I believe in the equality of man; and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow-creatures happy.” —Thomas Paine

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Are atheist allowed to enjoy the Bible?

Can atheist dig deeper into one of the bigger influences of English/American development?

Can atheists study and/or practice the ethics taught by Christ in the gospels?

Can atheists gain inspiration from the colorful and powerful stories of the Bible?

or do atheists have an obligation to hate the Bible?

That's a tough ask. It's a pretty crappy piece of literature, for one. Second, it is one of our first and worst attempts at morality, ethics, science, and philosophy. And the god character is so nauseating and evil, that one has a hard time discerning anything valuable to learn from it, without the influence of faith and preconceptions about the story and the depicted god. I read it in its entirey when i was younger, but it was more of a challenge to myself than something i enjoyed. Nowadays, i doubt i would get through Deuteronomy without wanting to pluck my eyes out instead.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Where was Christianity in LOTR?

More like Norse Gods than anything.

9 Things You Should Know About J. R. R. Tolkien

The Gospel Coalition is a fellowship of evangelical churches deeply committed to renewing our faith in the gospel of Christ

www.thegospelcoalition.org

9. Tolkien generally objected to overt religious allegory in stories (such as the Narnia novels by Lewis), but he nevertheless considered his fantasy stories to be influenced by his religious worldview:

The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like “religion,” to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism.

For Tolkien, fantasy and myths could reflect deeper truth:

“We have come from God and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, will also reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Indeed, only by myth-making, only by becoming a ‘sub-creator’ and inventing stories, can Man ascribe to the state of perfection that he knew before the fall.”

And Led Zeppelin sure loved it.

 

[rightwinger]

Are atheist allowed to enjoy the Bible?

Can atheist dig deeper into one of the bigger influences of English/American development?

Can atheists study and/or practice the ethics taught by Christ in the gospels?

Can atheists gain inspiration from the colorful and powerful stories of the Bible?

or do atheists have an obligation to hate the Bible?

That's a tough ask. It's a pretty crappy piece of literature, for one. Second, it is one of our first and worst attempts at morality, ethics, science, and philosophy. And the god character is so nauseating and evil, that ine has a hard time discerning anything valuable to learn from it, without the influence of faith and preconceptions about the story and the depicted god. I read it in its entirey when i was younger, but it was more of a challenge to myself than something i enjoyed. Nowadays, i doubt i would get through Deuteronomy without wanting to pluck my eyes out instead.

Like I said

Atheists have higher ethical standards than the Bible

Not hard to beat eye for an eye

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Are atheist allowed to enjoy the Bible?

Can atheist dig deeper into one of the bigger influences of English/American development?

Can atheists study and/or practice the ethics taught by Christ in the gospels?

Can atheists gain inspiration from the colorful and powerful stories of the Bible?

or do atheists have an obligation to hate the Bible?

That's a tough ask. It's a pretty crappy piece of literature, for one. Second, it is one of our first and worst attempts at morality, ethics, science, and philosophy. And the god character is so nauseating and evil, that ine has a hard time discerning anything valuable to learn from it, without the influence of faith and preconceptions about the story and the depicted god. I read it in its entirey when i was younger, but it was more of a challenge to myself than something i enjoyed. Nowadays, i doubt i would get through Deuteronomy without wanting to pluck my eyes out instead.

Like I said

Atheists have higher ethical standards than the Bible

Not hard to beat eye for an eye

For sure. As do most toddlers.