Zone1 Another question to ponder.

[ding]

I believe religion was used to keep serfs working their asses off in the hope they would be rewarded in the next life as they weren't getting by with much reward in this one.

That's not evidence. That's conjecture. Do you have any evidence to support your conjecture?

But to be clear you are alleging it was a conspiracy, right?

 

[Hafar1014]

That's not evidence. That's conjecture. Do you have any evidence to support your conjecture?

But to be clear you are alleging it was a conspiracy, right?

He makes very general point. Lets compare the atheist nations like USSR when we talk about serfs. They created gulags and slaughtered 30 million people. Then we have Red China Cambodia North Korea and compare the oppression and mass murder to any theocracy. The atheists are the world champions of killing and oppression

 

[BULLDOG]

Yes, that is why God the Father had to send God the Son to die. All humanity not of God will be wiped out.

The way mankind is now is the continuing march of history of the plan of God which will culminate in the New Heaven and and the New Earth.

Quantrill

So god intended to send the flood and then send Jesus to die from the very beginning? What kind of god would have planned all that death and suffering when he didn't have to? Does he like to see suffering that much?

 

[SweetSue92]

So god sent jesus (himself) to save us from himself. He did that so he could forgive sins. Atonement.
Why didnt he do that, instead of the flood? Why did he kill the entire planet and almost all the animals, when he could have just sent jesus earlier? Did the omniscient one just not think of jesus yet? Or is he just a freaking psychopath?
This is just another pondering that leaves me in the "WTF" category.

Yeah, Israel--from whom Jesus came--wasn't even in existence when God sent the flood. Israel--the Jewish nation--set Jesus in motion.

You might say, "well He could have sent Him even if the time wasn't right". Sure He could. He could also spontaneously combust either you or I, or both, at any time. The fact that humans don't regularly combust doesn't mean God can't do that. It means it's not part of His order.

 

[SweetSue92]

So god intended to send the flood and then send Jesus to die from the very beginning? What kind of god would have planned all that death and suffering when he didn't have to? Does he like to see suffering that much?

He knew, and knows, everything from the beginning, yes. Including the fall, which brought the sin and suffering in.

In the end He thought it was worth it. That's it. It was worth it.

 

[BULLDOG]

Yeah, Israel--from whom Jesus came--wasn't even in existence when God sent the flood. Israel--the Jewish nation--set Jesus in motion.

You might say, "well He could have sent Him even if the time wasn't right". Sure He could. He could also spontaneously combust either you or I, or both, at any time. The fact that humans don't regularly combust doesn't mean God can't do that. It means it's not part of His order.

What kind of omnificent/loving god would have planned so much pain and suffering for his children when clearly he had the power to not require those things to happen?

 

[Meriweather]

So god intended to send the flood and then send Jesus to die from the very beginning? What kind of god would have planned all that death and suffering when he didn't have to? Does he like to see suffering that much?

Have you ever wondered what it must be like outside of time, knowing both the beginning and the end? Then add free will into this. Picturing God as an author or architect who must sit down and outline a book or draw plans before building is limiting.

Genesis describes God as creator and how he brings good out of what is there. Where there was darkness, he drew light, and it was good. Where there was a flood, he brought forth more goodness. Where there was death he drew out great life, a life, to this day, that is remembered.

God is Creator, it is who he is. Creation takes time. Bringing good out of evil takes time. Seeing good...that in itself is awesome--and seeing good often seems beyond the capability of mere humanity. The second biggest challenge for mankind may be also learning to draw good out of what is not good.

 

[SweetSue92]

What kind of omnificent/loving god would have planned so much pain and suffering for his children when clearly he had the power to not require those things to happen?

He saw, and sees, the entire thing from the beginning. To have it not happen means there are no humans here, none of us go on to be with Him. That's it; the end of everything.

He saw it all and decided it was worth it. It doesn't make pain any easier to bear, of course. Even Jesus felt the pain of losing a friend

 

[BULLDOG]

He knew, and knows, everything from the beginning, yes. Including the fall, which brought the sin and suffering in.

In the end He thought it was worth it. That's it. It was worth it.

Perhaps if he just loves to watch so much suffering that he didn't have to cause.

 

[SweetSue92]

Perhaps if he just loves to watch so much suffering that he didn't have to cause.

He allowed His Son to suffer horribly to save whomever believes. You don't believe. God gives you that choice. Someday you will have to live with the consequences of that choice.

 

[BULLDOG]

He saw, and sees, the entire thing from the beginning. To have it not happen means there are no humans here, none of us go on to be with Him. That's it; the end of everything.

He saw it all and decided it was worth it. It doesn't make pain any easier to bear, of course. Even Jesus felt the pain of losing a friend

You know that is absurd logic, right?

 

[TNHarley]

Do you believe words have power? In Biblical times, words were associated with power.

I understand its your religion but my gawd almighty. You are defending people killing their own children because they curse!!! Disgusting.

 

[BULLDOG]

He allowed His Son to suffer horribly to save whomever believes. You don't believe. God gives you that choice. Someday you will have to live with the consequences of that choice.

Great idea. I think I'll dig a big old pit in my front yard and put alligators and snakes in the bottom of if, and then I'll tell the neighbor kids to stay away from it. If one or two end up in the pit, they deserved it. Then, I'll nail my own kid to a pole beside the pit so the remaining neighbor kids know I'm serious. The whole neighborhood will talk about how much I love kids.

 

[TNHarley]

Yeah, Israel--from whom Jesus came--wasn't even in existence when God sent the flood. Israel--the Jewish nation--set Jesus in motion.

You might say, "well He could have sent Him even if the time wasn't right". Sure He could. He could also spontaneously combust either you or I, or both, at any time. The fact that humans don't regularly combust doesn't mean God can't do that. It means it's not part of His order.

Youre ignoring my point. He would rather kill the entire planet(humans animals and vegetation) instead of sending jesus. Why?

 

[Meriweather]

I understand its your religion but my gawd almighty. You are defending people killing their own children because they curse!!! Disgusting.

Interesting the conclusions you jump to. This is not about adults killing youngsters. It is about adults against adults--adults in the same family, trying to tear each other down, with words and any other means. Are you familiar with any other stories/myths of the time? You wouldn't have to research too deeply to discover stories of (grown) children killing and maiming their fathers. Maybe if it was phrased in Commandment form? Children, when you are grown, you shall not defame, injure, or kill your parents to gain their power, position, possessions.

Also, the penalty attached to many situations in Biblical times is/was to let the people know just how serious certain behaviors are.

 

[TNHarley]

Interesting the conclusions you jump to. This is not about adults killing youngsters. It is about adults against adults--adults in the same family, trying to tear each other down, with words and any other means. Are you familiar with any other stories/myths of the time? You wouldn't have to research too deeply to discover stories of (grown) children killing and maiming their fathers. Maybe if it was phrased in Commandment form? Children, when you are grown, you shall not defame, injure, or kill your parents to gain their power, position, possessions.

Also, the penalty attached to many situations in Biblical times is/was to let the people know just how serious certain behaviors are.

80 year olds call their 50 year old offspring their "children"
Dont insult my intelligence. You defend people killing their CHILDREN for words. It is disgusting. And hateful. And psychotic.

 

[Quantrill]

So god intended to send the flood and then send Jesus to die from the very beginning? What kind of god would have planned all that death and suffering when he didn't have to? Does he like to see suffering that much?

You say He didn't have to. How do you know He didn't have to?

Quantrill

 

[TNHarley]

You say He didn't have to. How do you know He didn't have to?

Quantrill

He could have just not created the evil he wanted to kill. An omniscient being would have known better.

 

[Quantrill]

He could have just not created the evil he wanted to kill. An omniscient being would have known better.

But your knowledge is limited. Gods isn't. You don't even have all knowledge of earthly things today much less of all eternity and heaven and earth.

You disagree with what God did/does. That does not disprove God's omniscience. If God does it, He has purpose.

Your method of questioning can go back to 'why did God put the tree in the Garden?' Or the Serpent in the Garden? Or why did God decide death was the penalty for sin? Or, why didn't God make man righteous and in Christ the Son, when He first made him? Why did man have to be resurrected from death in order to be in Christ?

Quantrill

 

[TNHarley]

But your knowledge is limited. Gods isn't. You don't even have all knowledge of earthly things today much less of all eternity and heaven and earth.

You disagree with what God did/does. That does not disprove God's omniscience. If God does it, He has purpose.

Your method of questioning can go back to 'why did God put the tree in the Garden?' Or the Serpent in the Garden? Or why did God decide death was the penalty for sin? Or, why didn't God make man righteous and in Christ the Son, when He first made him? Why did man have to be resurrected from death in order to be in Christ?

Quantrill

So his purpose for everything pre-flood was to destroy it?