Zone1 A Great Authority Given Unto the Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ

[hobelim]

You didn't really say anything here. Maybe try again?

Don't be silly. If the consequence for seeking spiritual life from a matzo is death, then you will never understand, unless you repent, and to be honest I couldn't give two shits if you never do.

I am only dealing with you specifically for the benefit of others standing all around, watching.

Understanding has been denied to you by my God. You really must be a fucked up person. Damn.

 

[hobelim]

I'm sure you have to see it that way.

I believe what I see with my own eyes hear with my own ears and comprehend with my own mind. Your sin is as obvious to the living as a white boulder in the middle of a thoroughly plowed field.

Yet you continue to prance around stark naked trying to peddle your bread baked on human dung and eating it, yum, while cackling at your own pathetic aberrations like the hopelessly insane.


Who do you think you're fooling?

 

[ding]

Don't be silly. If the consequence for seeking spiritual life from a matzo is death, then you will never understand, unless you repent, and to be honest I couldn't give two shits if you never do.

I am only dealing with you specifically for the benefit of others standing all around, watching.

Understanding has been denied to you by my God. You really must be a fucked up person. Damn.

I've already proven Jesus is God, bro.

 

[ding]

I believe what I see with my own eyes hear with my own ears and comprehend with my own mind. Your sin is as obvious to the living as a white boulder in the middle of a thoroughly plowed field.

Who do you think you're fooling?

Jesus is God.

 

[hobelim]

Jesus is God.

" tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father; My God and your God."

By saying "My God and your God" Jesus effectively eliminated any possibility that he either thought of himself as or claimed to be God. Thats the way the cookie crumbles. Numbskull.

Don't you believe Jesus? His own words on the subject?

His enemies accused him of claiming equality with God because that would make him insane.

I have proven that Jesus is not God and never claimed to be God. You have proven yourself a fool

You are as queer as a three dollar bill. Now thats paying you back in your own coin. weirdo

 

[ding]

"But go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father; My God and your God"

By saying "My God and your God" Jesus effectively eliminated any possibility that he either thought of himself as or claimed to be God. Thats the way the cookie crumbles. Numbskull.

Don't you believe Jesus? His own words on the subject?

His enemies accused him of claiming equality with God because that would make him insane.

I have proven that Jesus is not God and never claimed to be God. You have proven yourself a fool

You are as queer as a three dollar bill.

That's nice. The first Christians who witnessed the supernatural acts performed by Jesus - which included controlling matter, controlling nature, healing physical deformities, healing diseases, raising the dead and resurrecting himself from death - worshiped Jesus as God because they witnessed those miracles. Non-Christian historians recorded that the first Christians worshiped Jesus as God because he performed supernatural feats. 24,000 written manuscripts documented the supernatural feats Jesus performed and the first Christians witnessed. The Babylonian Talmud confirms Jewish religious leaders put Jesus to death for sorcery and for leading Israel into apostasy. There are no opposing accounts that document that Jesus did not perform any supernatural acts. There are no opposing accounts that argue Jesus wasn't put to death for performing sorcery and inciting Israel to apostasy. There are no opposing accounts which document Jesus wasn't resurrected. There are no opposing accounts that the first Christians didn't witness Jesus performing supernatural acts. There are no opposing accounts that document the first Christians didn't worship Jesus as God.

 

[ding]

checkmate

 

[BS Filter]

"But go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father; My God and your God"

By saying "My God and your God" Jesus effectively eliminated any possibility that he either thought of himself as or claimed to be God. Thats the way the cookie crumbles. Numbskull.

Don't you believe Jesus? His own words on the subject?

His enemies accused him of claiming equality with God because that would make him insane.

I have proven that Jesus is not God and never claimed to be God. You have proven yourself a fool

You are as queer as a three dollar bill.

That statement reveals a total disregard for many Scriptures where Jesus declared He is God.

 

[hobelim]

That statement reveals a total disregard for many Scriptures where Jesus declared He is God.

When Jesus said "the Father and I are one" it was not a claim of being God. When he said "if you have seen me you have seen the Father" it was not a claim of being God. When Jesus said, "before Abraham was born I am" it was not a claim of being God.

When I say "If you have seen me you have seen Jesus", I am not claiming to be Jesus.

To see is to understand. To be one is to be of one accord. The Father, Jesus, and I are one.

United.


"that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one I in them and You in Me—that they may be perfectly one, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me.

 

[hobelim]

There are no opposing accounts that document the first Christians didn't worship Jesus as God.

I've never seen an opposing account saying that Pinocchio, a puppet, didn't became a real boy

Whats your point?

If the disciples were teaching people to worship Jesus as God it was like Moses telling people to turn to a statue of a serpent for healing during the time of testing in the wilderness.

 

[ding]

I've never seen an opposing account saying that Pinocchio, a puppet, didn't became a real boy

Whats your point?

If the disciples were teaching people to worship Jesus as God it was like Moses telling people to turn to a statue of a serpent for healing during the time of testing in the wilderness.

Exactly and you've never seen a historian record that people believed that Pinocchio became a real boy either.

My point should have been obvious. The historical evidence overwhelmingly shows that Jesus performed supernatural feats, was worshiped as God and was put to death for sorcery and inciting Israel to apostasy.

The first Christians did not need to be taught Jesus was God. They saw him perform supernatural acts. They didn't need convincing.

Your metaphor argument doesn't get Jesus put to death for sorcery and inciting Israel to apostasy or get people to worship him as God. For that you have to perform supernatural acts. Which he did approximately 40 times as documented in 24,000 written manuscripts.

 

[hobelim]

Exactly and you've never seen a historian record that people believed that Pinocchio became a real boy either.

My point should have been obvious. The historical evidence overwhelmingly shows that Jesus performed supernatural feats, was worshiped as God and was put to death for sorcery and inciting Israel to apostasy.

The first Christians did not need to be taught Jesus was God. They saw him perform supernatural acts. They didn't need convincing.

Your metaphor argument doesn't get Jesus put to death for sorcery and inciting Israel to apostasy or get people to worship him as God. For that you have to perform supernatural acts. Which he did approximately 40 times as documented in 24,000 written manuscripts.

If the disciples were teaching people to worship Jesus as God it was like Moses telling people to turn to a statue of a serpent for healing during "the time of testing in the wilderness".



Pop quiz!


1. Why did Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane pray to God for "this cup" to pass him by and admonish his sleeping disciples to STAY AWAKE and pray to be spared "the test" 3 times?

2. Why was Hezekiah credited with keeping Gods commands and doing what was right in Gods eyes by destroying the statue of a serpent that Moses made in the wilderness of sin and lifted up for the people to turn to for healing unless it was never right to turn to it for healing?

 

[ding]

If the disciples were teaching people to worship Jesus as God it was like Moses telling people to turn to a statue of a serpent for healing during "the time of testing in the wilderness".



Pop quiz!


1. Why did Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane pray to God for "this cup" to pass him by and admonish his sleeping disciples to STAY AWAKE and pray to be spared "the test" 3 times?

2. Why was Hezekiah credited with keeping Gods commands and doing what was right in Gods eyes by destroying the statue of a serpent that Moses made in the wilderness of sin and lifted up for the people to turn to for healing unless it was never right to turn to it for healing?

Again... The first Christians did not need to be taught Jesus was God. They saw him perform supernatural acts. They didn't need convincing.

The first Christians who witnessed the supernatural acts performed by Jesus - which included controlling matter, controlling nature, healing physical deformities, healing diseases, raising the dead and resurrecting himself from death - worshiped Jesus as God because they witnessed those miracles. Non-Christian historians recorded that the first Christians worshiped Jesus as God because he performed supernatural feats. 24,000 written manuscripts documented the supernatural feats Jesus performed and the first Christians witnessed. The Babylonian Talmud confirms Jewish religious leaders put Jesus to death for sorcery and for leading Israel into apostasy. There are no opposing accounts that document that Jesus did not perform any supernatural acts. There are no opposing accounts that argue Jesus wasn't put to death for performing sorcery and inciting Israel to apostasy. There are no opposing accounts which document Jesus wasn't resurrected. There are no opposing accounts that the first Christians didn't witness Jesus performing supernatural acts. There are no opposing accounts that document the first Christians didn't worship Jesus as God.

Your metaphor argument doesn't get Jesus put to death for sorcery and inciting Israel to apostasy or get people to worship him as God. For that you have to perform supernatural acts. Which he did approximately 40 times as documented in 24,000 written manuscripts.

Checkmate

 

[BS Filter]

When Jesus said "the Father and I are one" it was not a claim of being God. When he said "if you have seen me you have seen the Father" it was not a claim of being God. When Jesus said, "before Abraham was born I am" it was not a claim of being God.

When I say "If you have seen me you have seen Jesus", I am not claiming to be Jesus.

To see is to understand. To be one is to be of one accord. The Father, Jesus, and I are one.

United.


"that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one I in them and You in Me—that they may be perfectly one, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me.

There is only one "I Am". There is only one "First and Last". There is only one who can raise the dead. God.

 

[onefour1]

Jesus is a member of the Godhead from before the foundation of the world. The Apostle John taught this in John 1:1-3 and 14.

John 1:1-3, 14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

In this verse we learn that the Word was God and that he created all things and that he was made flesh and dwelt among us and was the only begotten of the Father.

When we read Genesis we learn that there was more than one involved in the creation:

Genesis 1:26-27
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The use of the pronouns US and OUR tell us that God consists of more than one and that Jesus was there with the Father when they both decided to create the earth and that he was part of the God head.

We learn that Jesus was actually the God of the Old Testament named Jehovah and the Great I AM.

Exodus 6:2-3
2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord:
3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.

Exodus 3:14-15
14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

From these verses we learn that the God who appeared to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses was Jehovah and was also known as I AM and God. It is important to understand that the Great IAM appeared to these ancient prophet and spoke to them face to face.

Genesis 32:30
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Exodus 33:11
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

Here we learn that God spoke to his prophets face to face as a man speaketh unto his friends. Was this God the Father or Jesus Christ? The Apostle John lets us know that this was not God the Father in the following verse:

John 1:18
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Here John, when speaking of God distinguishes his from the Son and tells us that no man hath see God, ie the Father. If no man had seen God the Father, then who was it that appeared to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses? Was it not God the Son? Jehovah or the Great I AM? In the New Testament Jesus tells us that he is I AM.

John 8:52-59
52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I Am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Here Jesus claimed to be the Great I AM. for this the Jews took up stones to cast at him.

 

[hobelim]

was put to death for sorcery

He was accused of sorcery but put to death for sedition by Rome. Pilate asked Jesus whether he was a king, not a god. Jesus replied, "King is your word. My task is to bear witness to the truth"
Jesus then said "if my kingdom was of this world, my followers would be fighting", etc., and then Pilate said, Aha! So you are a king. Then he was put to death. Didn't you read the story? Damn.

The sorcery was brought up because Jesus was able to "open the eyes of the blind" who were taught since birth that the Law was to be interpreted and followed literally. A miracle! Whoa. As miraculous as if the Pope abdicated his lofty position and covered himself in dust and ashes.

The miracle had nothing at all to do with restoring vision to the physically blind. It was a blindness of perception, not sight, that Jesus cured by teaching 'the blind' how to understand metaphors.

Jesus asked the blind man what he saw with mud in his eyes and a hand over that. First the man "saw" trees. Then when Jesus said to take another look he saw men. The teaching was that in scripture men are often spoken of as trees, with fruit that is good to eat or forbidden, as in eden.

Jesus was teaching the blind man how to use his imagination in a rational way, to understand....

Be honest. How could the man see anything with his eyes with spit and mud over them? THINK!

You can do it!

 

[hobelim]

and inciting Israel to apostasy.

Of the appointment of 'presbyters'

"When these men have undergone, with blamelessness of conduct, a two year preparation in the fundamentals of the community, they shall be segregated as especially sacred among the formal members of the community. Any knowledge which the expositor of the Law may posses but which may have to remain arcane to the ordinary layman, he shall not keep hidden from them; for in their case there need be no fear that it might induce apostasy."

Dead Sea scrolls, Manual of Discipline

Jesus revealed what was being kept hidden from everyone except a select few. Thats why Jesus said 'No one lights a candle and then hides it under a bushel. No, they put it on the lamp stand so everyone in the room can see" a reference to the secret meaning of the Law being withheld from even the Jewish laity which Jesus saw as defiance of the command for the Law to be "a light to the nations", meaning everyone, including those damn Romans. Some saw that as treasonous.

He was not put to death because he was claiming to be God. His enemies made that false accusation so that his revelation that they wanted hidden would never be accepted because anyone who claims to be God is insane. And anyone who would follow a lunatic is just a schnook.

I have shown how Jesus was not insane and the "miracles" conform to reality. No suspension of disbelief, no blind faith, no 'just believe' required or necessary. The truth has been made obvious.

 

[hobelim]

Checkmate

Checkmate? lol Don't be silly.

Sorry poppet. You lose.

 

[hobelim]

There is only one "I Am". There is only one "First and Last".

So? Jesus was responding to the question, "you are not yet fifty years old, how could you have seen Abraham?" which implies that if he was fifty they might have believed which shows that seeing Abraham was about understanding Abraham. Jesus responding with "before Abraham was born, I am" explains how he could have seen Abraham because God existed before Abraham was born and this same God was with Jesus and told him what to day and how to say it. Jn 12:49

Do you see?

There is only one who can raise the dead. God

Nonsense I saw with my own eyes an idolator dead as dead can be for more than forty years who stank to high heaven rise from the dead after hearing a few words from a "living human being".

Happens all the time.

Such is the power of "the Word" Logos, Divine reasoning, the light, within anyone who masters it.

 

[ding]

He was accused of sorcery but put to death for sedition by Rome. Pilate asked Jesus whether he was a king, not a god. Jesus replied, "King is your word. My task is to bear witness to the truth"
Jesus then said "if my kingdom was of this world, my followers would be fighting", etc., and then Pilate said, Aha! So you are a king. Then he was put to death. Didn't you read the story? Damn.

The sorcery was brought up because Jesus was able to "open the eyes of the blind" who were taught since birth that the Law was to be interpreted and followed literally. A miracle! Whoa. As miraculous as if the Pope abdicated his lofty position and covered himself in dust and ashes.

The miracle had nothing at all to do with restoring vision to the physically blind. It was a blindness of perception, not sight, that Jesus cured by teaching 'the blind' how to understand metaphors.

Jesus asked the blind man what he saw with mud in his eyes and a hand over that. First the man "saw" trees. Then when Jesus said to take another look he saw men. The teaching was that in scripture men are often spoken of as trees, with fruit that is good to eat or forbidden, as in eden.

Jesus was teaching the blind man how to use his imagination in a rational way, to understand....

Be honest. How could the man see anything with his eyes with spit and mud over them? THINK!

You can do it!

Again... Your metaphor argument doesn't get Jesus put to death for sorcery and inciting Israel to apostasy or get people to worship him as God. For that you have to perform supernatural acts. Which he did approximately 40 times as documented in 24,000 written manuscripts.

The first Christians who witnessed the supernatural acts performed by Jesus - which included controlling matter, controlling nature, healing physical deformities, healing diseases, raising the dead and resurrecting himself from death - worshiped Jesus as God because they witnessed those miracles. Non-Christian historians recorded that the first Christians worshiped Jesus as God because he performed supernatural feats. 24,000 written manuscripts documented the supernatural feats Jesus performed and the first Christians witnessed. The Babylonian Talmud confirms Jewish religious leaders put Jesus to death for sorcery and for leading Israel into apostasy. There are no opposing accounts that document that Jesus did not perform any supernatural acts. There are no opposing accounts that argue Jesus wasn't put to death for performing sorcery and inciting Israel to apostasy. There are no opposing accounts which document Jesus wasn't resurrected. There are no opposing accounts that the first Christians didn't witness Jesus performing supernatural acts. There are no opposing accounts that document the first Christians didn't worship Jesus as God.