Why we need God

[JBeukema]

What manifold is hitting at is the difference between Reality and our own perception.

Perception is reality. Nothing is and there is nothing until an observer, through subjective experience, brings it into being. This is what we are learning from modern physics- and what some buddhists have been saying all along.

It is not necessarily true that two people that shared the same experiences will come away with the same understanding

No two people ever have equivalent experience; that is impossible, as each impertinences from a different frame of reference.

 

[amrchaos]

Because it's timeless and infallable in terms of living among others in any society. No matter whatever personal strife one might have within their family or themselves, or society even, their issues and conflicts or desires should not compromise the quality of life of any other individual outside that inner circle.

Much of what is written as testimony in the Bible is the love and glory of God. The testimonies are written by human beings interpreted by human beings and its very subjective and at times arbitrary although I don't believe it was meant to be. While there is an absolute definition to scripture, its nearly impossible to correctly interpret its intention with absolute certainty because of the culture and spiritual dichotomy incorporated into it. But the Ten Commandments is absolute in this regard because it does not exclusively apply to a specific period of time.

Anne Marie

No, I asked how do you know this was "bestoyed (sic) upon man by god"? How do you know for sure that moses didn't just go up into the hills and make that shit up?

Why would any human being willfully subordinate themselves to a diety, to some higher power, if they did not exist? And beyond that, what did Moses stand to gain in the event he made it all up himself? What wealth, what power? If spirituality, if this divine being(s) did not exist what would be the purpose of presenting these set of rules?

Anne Marie

What would Moses and the Hebrew gain by making up a set of laws to live by??

An organized society!!

I think the direction you are taking is reflective of your belief system that was taught and demonstrated and granted to your god during the period of your spiritual growth.

Yet the foundations of most religions, including Christianity, tends to address the plans and ideas when asking questions such as:Why are we here? How can we survive? (to more specific questions such as) What is the best behavior I should take when dealing with others?

Religion seeks to answer these questions and provide a basis (such as what god wants, what god does not want of you in most Monotheistic religions) to form their answers from. I think the reason for the concept of "god" occured is to provide such a basis. Not the other way around(orders are given from a divine being, and it is best to stay in its good graces...) Also, to answer questions that the leaders of the society may not be able to answer on their own--but shown to work.

We do something like this already in general when we elect officials to make and enforce laws. We have a basis that give the individual rights(the constitution) and an idea(Rights of man) and a way to make others comply to the laws created(Justice system, police force).

I truly believe that man made the laws, and always made the laws. The miracles were a mechanism to teach the young the laws. And the society ways--either through direct punisihment or so forth, to execute the laws.

No GOD is needed.

 

[sidneyworld]

As is expected there's a lot of idle supposition flying around in here. And I can't say that for the record my posts have the same by all appearances. Your thoughts are well intentioned chaos and certainly plausible. But one cannot realistically deny the existence of the spiritual realm. Scientific research has been in place for years now whereby spiritual entities have been successfully recorded by credible parapsychologists of various universities in this country. Including UCLA, St. Johns and Dartmouth College to name a few. There have been endless pictures taken in the same fashion, recordings of voices not of our level of existence.

There are stories of afterlife experiences by people revived after flatlining, from opposite sides of the earth who remarkably claim similiar situations. Of being met by loved ones, or for some, being dragged down to an abyss that was indescribable horror. If we have this ability to view this alter reality, then it must exist. People of the highest caliber in medicine have come across cases where a terminally ill individuals with clear evidence of cancer throughout their system are completely healed and flushed of any cancer almost instantly overnight or within a few days. These are not coma patience with questionable diagnosis. These are folks whose cancer can be touched, and seen through an xray.

And again, who are these spirits who still occupy the earth? Why do they still roam around aimlessly, reliving the events which led to their demise or simply living as if they still breath, still exist in physical form?

For anyone to begin to entertain these accounts, one might also at the very least agree the potential exists of their being a communion of superior beings who exists on an entirely different level, perhaps even are omnipresent.

There are countless accounts of events that cannot be simply explained as coincidence. That it must have happened through some divine intervention. Such as those doctors whose patients have miraculously and completely been cured by a means unknown to them. Or that pesky entity who opens windows or throws plates around or actually attempts to communicate with us.

If you keep your eyes wide open, there are endless pieces to the puzzle you will uncover of what has been expressed in scripture. It begins to make complete sense, beyond blind faith, that indeed there is another level of existence and that our emotions are not completely clinical. That we are part of a grand scheme, a physical manifestation originating from another place, perhaps right in front of us, but nonetheless something that affects billions of people on this earth.

These things are undeniable. Perhaps the question of God is too much to absorb. And to say that I have a personal connection, whenever I am able to recognize it, to God and to Jesus Christ may sound ridiculous, but I can say with absolute certainly that since I was a young child, and an only child, I have had an affinity to these people and to nature.

There is truly nothing spiritually extraordinary about me where I can make things happen such as healing anyone. And I don't believe everyone that say they can. But there is most certainly something I can't help but acknowledge in my life that has been with me for all of it, looking back as a child, and recognizing the things that are very much a part of now, for me, which has guided me through incredible circumstances, and has saved me several times, that I could remember, from a certain death. Just in my extensive travels alone, there is absolutely no way I would have gotten through it it were not for this guiding light that came in many forms. Making the right split decisions, or being overwhelmed by something preventing me from entering certain places, or just having an immediate knowlege of things I did not know just seconds before.

There is a force in this universe that is singular in the way I experience it. As difficult it is to describe, it overwhelms my spirit, even now talking about it, and what I feel is an incredible sense of well being and fearless and the level of absolute confidence that I place my life in God's hands.

And this is the way it is for me. No preachy stuff, just actual experience that I simply cannot deny exists in my life, and I thank God for that.

Anne Marie

 

[ABikerSailor]

What manifold is hitting at is the difference between Reality and our own perception.

Perception is reality. Nothing is and there is nothing until an observer, through subjective experience, brings it into being. This is what we are learning from modern physics- and what some buddhists have been saying all along.

It is not necessarily true that two people that shared the same experiences will come away with the same understanding

No two people ever have equivalent experience; that is impossible, as each impertinences from a different frame of reference.

Perception is reality? Actually, perception is the WEAKEST form of reality. Ever watch a magician? It's all illusion.

Same with the real world.

 

[Diuretic]

Any of us can only perceive things by using our senses. That's why science is so useful. Lots of individuals use an approach which has been developed over hundreds of years of human inquiry to try and explain observed phenomena without recourse to mythologies. Before science only religion or some form of metaphysical thinking could explain observed natural phenomena. When science came along there was no need for religion, hence the historical antipathy that religionists have had (and some still have) towards science.

I'm just glad Aristotle came along after Plato. If he hadn't then we'd still be stuck with the Platonic idea that pure reasoning is sufficient to explain everything.

 

[Anguille]

Follow that up with "Jonathan Livingston Seagull", and pay close attention.

You too can learn how to do miracles.

 

[Anguille]

I conclude based on a lifetime of observation, reflection and deduction

 

[Anguille]

My point is that I believe that the widespread belief in a God is a necessary ingredient in the glue that holds together our universal respect for individual freedom and liberty.

Sounds like a libertarian twist on "Religion is the opiate of the people".

 

[Anguille]

relevant to YOU, but your OP suggests that we should ALL have this same belief based on your observations and perspective which, i'm suggesting, is no more relevant to ALL of us than the observations and perceptions of an atheist.

I think manifold fears that atheism equals anarchism.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Any of us can only perceive things by using our senses. That's why science is so useful. Lots of individuals use an approach which has been developed over hundreds of years of human inquiry to try and explain observed phenomena without recourse to mythologies. Before science only religion or some form of metaphysical thinking could explain observed natural phenomena. When science came along there was no need for religion, hence the historical antipathy that religionists have had (and some still have) towards science.

I'm just glad Aristotle came along after Plato. If he hadn't then we'd still be stuck with the Platonic idea that pure reasoning is sufficient to explain everything.

Question: Do you realize that Abraham, as well as Noah, were scientists, right?

They are the ones that started science.

 

[JBeukema]

Any of us can only perceive things by using our senses. That's why science is so useful. Lots of individuals use an approach which has been developed over hundreds of years of human inquiry to try and explain observed phenomena without recourse to mythologies. Before science only religion or some form of metaphysical thinking could explain observed natural phenomena. When science came along there was no need for religion, hence the historical antipathy that religionists have had (and some still have) towards science.

I'm just glad Aristotle came along after Plato. If he hadn't then we'd still be stuck with the Platonic idea that pure reasoning is sufficient to explain everything.

Question: Do you realize that Abraham, as well as Noah, were scientists, right?

They are the ones that started science.

 

[Avatar4321]

Having seen people at their best and their worst, Id have to quote someone far wiser than I about the needs of this world.

The Lord works from the inside out. The world works from the outside in. The world would take people out of the slums. Christ takes the slums out of people, and then they take themselves out of the slums. The world would mold men by changing their environment. Christ changes men, who then change their environment. The world would shape human behavior, but Christ can change human nature.

“Human nature can be changed, here and now,” said President McKay, and then he quoted the following:

“You can change human nature. No man who has felt in him the Spirit of Christ even for half a minute can deny this truth. …

“You do change human nature, your own human nature, if you surrender it to Christ. Human nature has been changed in the past. Human nature must be changed on an enormous scale in the future, unless the world is to be drowned in its own blood. And only Christ can change it. “Twelve men did quite a lot to change the world nineteen hundred years ago. Twelve simple men.” (Beverly Nichols, in David O. McKay, Stepping Stones to an Abundant Life, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1971, p. 23.)

Yes, Christ changes men, and changed men can change the world. Men changed for Christ will be captained by Christ. Like Paul they will be asking, “Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?” (Acts 9:6.) Peter stated they will “follow his steps.” (1 Pet. 2:21.) John said they will “walk, even as he walked.” (1 Jn. 2:6.) Ezra Taft Benson - Born of God

 

[JBeukema]

 

[sidneyworld]

What would really be remarkable for me to see about you is something truly genuine. You are so guarded and obnoxious. I would be quite amazed to read a post from you that distinquishes anything else but what I've seen.

I might take you seriously, unless of course, this is just your little playground.

Anne Marie

 

[JBeukema]

STFU, you idiot. I have refuted half your damn posts and shown you to be an idiot time and again. When you can present actual rebuttals and an intelligent argument- then you can speak to me

 

[Diuretic]

Any of us can only perceive things by using our senses. That's why science is so useful. Lots of individuals use an approach which has been developed over hundreds of years of human inquiry to try and explain observed phenomena without recourse to mythologies. Before science only religion or some form of metaphysical thinking could explain observed natural phenomena. When science came along there was no need for religion, hence the historical antipathy that religionists have had (and some still have) towards science.

I'm just glad Aristotle came along after Plato. If he hadn't then we'd still be stuck with the Platonic idea that pure reasoning is sufficient to explain everything.

Question: Do you realize that Abraham, as well as Noah, were scientists, right?

They are the ones that started science.

No, wasn't aware of that at all. Got any evidence for your claim?

 

[Sarahya]

As someone asked to me once zenfully: Why a drop of water need water?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Any of us can only perceive things by using our senses. That's why science is so useful. Lots of individuals use an approach which has been developed over hundreds of years of human inquiry to try and explain observed phenomena without recourse to mythologies. Before science only religion or some form of metaphysical thinking could explain observed natural phenomena. When science came along there was no need for religion, hence the historical antipathy that religionists have had (and some still have) towards science.

I'm just glad Aristotle came along after Plato. If he hadn't then we'd still be stuck with the Platonic idea that pure reasoning is sufficient to explain everything.

Question: Do you realize that Abraham, as well as Noah, were scientists, right?

They are the ones that started science.

No, wasn't aware of that at all. Got any evidence for your claim?

Check the Torah.

 

[Al Gunn]

Cmon sausagesailor, noah was a scientist? Of what? All the manure he had to shovel of the ark for 40 days lest it sink?
Check the torah? You mean that jew book of bullshit where god makes them the chosen people? Ya right. They were chosen to be gassed, that's about it. Where was their god then?
Why don't you just stfu and go puff on another sausage.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Cmon sausagesailor, noah was a scientist? Of what? All the manure he had to shovel of the ark for 40 days lest it sink?
Check the torah? You mean that jew book of bullshit where god makes them the chosen people? Ya right. They were chosen to be gassed, that's about it. Where was their god then?
Why don't you just stfu and go puff on another sausage.

Hey Gunn Smoker........might wanna look again. Obviously, you are pretty content in your own ignorance and choose to not listen, so jam the cocks back in your ears and go back to getting made water tight.