Who Are The Palestinians?

[Phoenall]

montelatici, et al,

I think you are confused.

(COMMENT)

Who are you trying to kid????

(formerly the enemy indigenous population supporting the Axis Powers and the Ottoman Empire)​

• Musa Kazim al-Husayni, who signed the correspondence you cited, held a series of senior posts in the Ottoman administration. He belonged to the prominent al-Husayni family and was mayor of Jerusalem (1918-1920). He was dismissed as mayor by the British authorities and became head of the nationalist Executive Committee of the Palestine Arab Congress from 1922 until 1934.

These were former Ottoman puppets and soon to be stone cold terrorists, in league with the Mufti and associated with Izz ad-din al-Qassam (Palestinian Black Hand). He belonged to the prominent al-Husayni family and was mayor of Jerusalem. While there is no doubt that at least some of the Arab Delegation might have represented the Christian segment, there was not prominent person noted nor a Christian oriented request made by the Delegation.

Remember, the British governed Palestine through a military administration known as Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA); a joint British and French military administration over Levantine and Mesopotamian provinces of the former Ottoman Empire.

(COMMENT)

To make a couple of points:

Look at the timeline. At the time the Arab Delegation was corresponding with the Secretary of State for the Colonies (1920-1925) the Jewish were not evicting anyone from the territory under the Mandate.

Sovereignty and immigration was a matter for the Government of Palestine (ie the UK High Commissioner) and the League of Nations Palestinian Council to be concerned about; not an issue for the Arab Palestinian to be concerned.

There had been no grand strategy pertaining to the distribution of the Jewish Immigrants yet formulated. This did not really come about until after the Arab Palestinians became violent and riotous. With prominent Arab-Palestinians (former enemy citizenry) like the Gand Mufti of Jerusalem openly participating in the incitement activities. It was well known that al-Husseini exercised total control over the secret society, Al-Fida’iyya (The Self-Sacrificers), which, together with al-Ikha’ wal-‘Afaf (Brotherhood and Purity), played an important role in clandestine anti-British and anti-Zionist activities, and, via members in the gendarmerie, had engaged in riotous activities as early as April 1920. Palestinian nationalism emerged, during the time between the initial OETA and the Mandate, in response to Zionist immigration and settlement.

Most Respectfully,
R

Holy smokescreen, Batman. You are solid into Israeli propaganda.

Here is something from a neutral (Italian) source.

What did Rocco say that is false ?

Rocco always starts with the false premise that the Palestinian resistance to occupation and colonization is aggression. Then his posts go downhill from there.

Rocco has refuted so many of your posts Tinmore. You've never won a debate with him and you know that.

Can you give me a few examples of Palestinians resisting ?

Rocco has refuted so many of your posts Tinmore.​

Name one.

Every one you have made against Israel for starters

 

[P F Tinmore]

Holy smokescreen, Batman. You are solid into Israeli propaganda.

Here is something from a neutral (Italian) source.

What did Rocco say that is false ?

Rocco always starts with the false premise that the Palestinian resistance to occupation and colonization is aggression. Then his posts go downhill from there.

Rocco has refuted so many of your posts Tinmore. You've never won a debate with him and you know that.

Can you give me a few examples of Palestinians resisting ?

Rocco has refuted so many of your posts Tinmore.​

Name one.

Every one you have made against Israel for starters

IOW, you don't have jack shit.

 

[Phoenall]

What did Rocco say that is false ?

Rocco always starts with the false premise that the Palestinian resistance to occupation and colonization is aggression. Then his posts go downhill from there.

Rocco has refuted so many of your posts Tinmore. You've never won a debate with him and you know that.

Can you give me a few examples of Palestinians resisting ?

Rocco has refuted so many of your posts Tinmore.​

Name one.

Every one you have made against Israel for starters

IOW, you don't have jack shit.

I know more than you as I am not blinded by islamonazi propaganda

 

[montelatici]

Fact is not propaganda. You have never quite figured out that everything you claim is, or is based on, propaganda created to support the Zionist myth. Stop your phoenalling! Love the Sink or Swim forum. You've made one heck of a name for yourself there too. LOL

 

[P F Tinmore]

Rocco always starts with the false premise that the Palestinian resistance to occupation and colonization is aggression. Then his posts go downhill from there.

Rocco has refuted so many of your posts Tinmore. You've never won a debate with him and you know that.

Can you give me a few examples of Palestinians resisting ?

Rocco has refuted so many of your posts Tinmore.​

Name one.

Every one you have made against Israel for starters

IOW, you don't have jack shit.

I know more than you as I am not blinded by islamonazi propaganda

Are you kidding?

If it isn't from www,israelibullshit.il you don't know anything about it.

 

[Phoenall]

Rocco has refuted so many of your posts Tinmore. You've never won a debate with him and you know that.

Can you give me a few examples of Palestinians resisting ?

Rocco has refuted so many of your posts Tinmore.​

Name one.

Every one you have made against Israel for starters

IOW, you don't have jack shit.

I know more than you as I am not blinded by islamonazi propaganda

Are you kidding?

If it isn't from www,israelibullshit.il you don't know anything about it.

So the UN archives and Yale U are no longer valid sources of information ? But islamonazis-r-us. org is

 

[montelatici]

Rocco has refuted so many of your posts Tinmore.​

Name one.

Every one you have made against Israel for starters

IOW, you don't have jack shit.

I know more than you as I am not blinded by islamonazi propaganda

Are you kidding?

If it isn't from www,israelibullshit.il you don't know anything about it.

So the UN archives and Yale U are no longer valid sources of information ? But islamonazis-r-us. org is

You do not use anything but Hasbara sites. What are you talking about. You deny anything contained in non-partisan academic or governmental archives is valid.

 

[RoccoR]

TINMORE, montelatici, et al,

I'm not sure which Posting you are referring to; and what incorrect proposition you have identified that forms the basis of an argument.

Rocco always starts with the false premise that the Palestinian resistance to occupation and colonization is aggression. Then his posts go downhill from there.

(OBSERVATIONs)

There are two posting that you could be referring to:

• Posting #3390: The Demands made by the Arab Palestinian Delegation for near immediate independence of the entire area, from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, to the Arab Palestinian.

• Posting #3397: Which was a direct response to "montelatici's" Posting #3392, that challenged my description of the the Palestinian Arab Delegation. Wherein montelatici claims the Arab Palestinian Delegation: "No, the Arab Delegation was made up of Christians and Muslims whose people had supported the British against the Axis powers. Ever watched Lawrence of Arabia you ignoramus. And, they were, in fact, promised independence for their support."

(COMMENT)

I'm going to assume that you are suggesting that the Premise in Posting 3397 is the target since that is where montelatici's comment rests.

First, I know who COL T.E. Lawrence CB DSO, a British Intelligence Officer in World War I, and one of the key organizers of the Arab Revolt against Ottoman Turks. And COL Lawrence eventually made contact with Prince Faisal and the Hashemite Bedouins. That is not the same as the many many Christian-Muslims like your hero Musa Kazim al-Husayni who held office and position under the Ottoman Empire. Husayni who signed the correspondence you cited, held a series of senior posts in the Ottoman administration; including a period when he voluntarily joined the Ottoman Army during the First World War as an artillery officer. He belonged to the prominent al-Husayni family and was mayor of Jerusalem (1918-1920); both his grandfather (Mustafa) and half-brother (Kamal) having been muftis of Jerusalem. He was dismissed as mayor by the British authorities for corruption and malfeasance in office. He later became head of the nationalist Executive Committee of the Palestine Arab Congress from 1922 until 1934; and he rejected Balfour Declaration and the British Mandate in Palestine. These Arabs believed that the indigenous population had some special authority over the arbitrarily established Palestine.

The McMahon–Hussein Correspondence, or the Hussein–McMahon Correspondence, was an exchange of letters (14 July 1915 to 30 January 1916) during World War I, between the Sharif of Mecca, Husayn bin Ali, and Sir Henry McMahon, British High Commissioner in Egypt, concerning the political status of lands under the Ottoman Empire. The Arab side was already looking toward a large revolt against the Ottoman Empire; the British encouraged the Arabs to revolt and thus hamper the Ottoman Empire, which had become a German ally in the War after November 1914. McMahon Hussein Correspondence - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia​

I sense that you are making the assumption that the High Commissioner and the Mandate Administration did not know the character of the Arab Delegation; unpleasantly proud, unreliable, and parasitic.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

Every one you have made against Israel for starters

IOW, you don't have jack shit.

I know more than you as I am not blinded by islamonazi propaganda

Are you kidding?

If it isn't from www,israelibullshit.il you don't know anything about it.

So the UN archives and Yale U are no longer valid sources of information ? But islamonazis-r-us. org is

You do not use anything but Hasbara sites. What are you talking about. You deny anything contained in non-partisan academic or governmental archives is valid.

Because not everything in their archives is true, as I have shown with your booklet that was collated from many sources is not a source document for that reason as the actual source is not given.
Now go away and stick your arse in the air as you prostrate yourself to shaitan

 

[montelatici]

The Survey of Palestine is the ultimate source document for the the history of the Mandate. The source was the official Anglo-American Committee of Enquiry, chartered by the U.S. and UK Governments. It is an official U.S. Government document published by the U.S. Government Printing office. Interestingly, there is a UN Resolution in the form of a letter from the UK government to the UN, which summarizes the facts in the Survey.

UNITED
NATIONS
A

• 
  General Assembly

A/AC.14/8
2 October 1947

ORIGINAL: ENGLISH
AD HOC COMMITTEE ON THE PALESTINIAN QUESTION
COMMUNICATION FROM THE UNITED KINGDOM DELEGATION TO
THE UNITED NATIONS

The following letter has been received from the United Kingdom Delegation to the United Nations:


United Kingdom Delegation to the
United Nations, New York
18 August 1947

Sir:

I have the honour to forward to Your Excellency herewith a memorandum by His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom entitled "Political History of Palestine under British Administration".


Now, stop your phoenalling.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, ET AL,

Just a minor correction.

The Survey of Palestine is the ultimate source document for the the history of the Mandate. The source was the official Anglo-American Committee of Enquiry, chartered by the U.S. and UK Governments. It is an official U.S. Government document published by the U.S. Government Printing office. Interestingly, there is a UN Resolution in the form of a letter from the UK government to the UN, which summarizes the facts in the Survey.

UNITED
NATIONS
A

• 
  General Assembly

A/AC.14/8
2 October 1947

ORIGINAL: ENGLISH
AD HOC COMMITTEE ON THE PALESTINIAN QUESTION
COMMUNICATION FROM THE UNITED KINGDOM DELEGATION TO
THE UNITED NATIONS

The following letter has been received from the United Kingdom Delegation to the United Nations:


United Kingdom Delegation to the
United Nations, New York
18 August 1947

Sir:

I have the honour to forward to Your Excellency herewith a memorandum by His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom entitled "Political History of Palestine under British Administration".


Now, stop your phoenalling.

(COMMENT)

There is no "UN Resolution" contained here; in any form. It is a run of the mill Document.

The Document Number (A/AC.14.8) indicates that it is a General Assembly -- ad Hoc Committee --- Palestine --- Series 8.

UN Resolutions have a different number sequence and format.

It is a very good document for UK Perspective, but it is not ultimate source. I have used it quite extensively over the years.

It seems that you might be confusing two documents:

• A/AC.14/8 2 October 1947 Political History of Palestine under British Administration

• British Mandate: A Survey of Palestine --- prepared by Government of Palestinian (then under British military occupation/Mandate) for the United Nation Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) in 1946

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

IOW, you don't have jack shit.

I know more than you as I am not blinded by islamonazi propaganda

Are you kidding?

If it isn't from www,israelibullshit.il you don't know anything about it.

So the UN archives and Yale U are no longer valid sources of information ? But islamonazis-r-us. org is

You do not use anything but Hasbara sites. What are you talking about. You deny anything contained in non-partisan academic or governmental archives is valid.

Because not everything in their archives is true, as I have shown with your booklet that was collated from many sources is not a source document for that reason as the actual source is not given.
Now go away and stick your arse in the air as you prostrate yourself to shaitan

Who would you say is a bigger Palestinian Propagadist, Tinmore or Monti ?

 

[toastman]

Rocco has refuted so many of your posts Tinmore. You've never won a debate with him and you know that.

Can you give me a few examples of Palestinians resisting ?

Rocco has refuted so many of your posts Tinmore.​

Name one.

Every one you have made against Israel for starters

IOW, you don't have jack shit.

I know more than you as I am not blinded by islamonazi propaganda

Are you kidding?

If it isn't from www,israelibullshit.il you don't know anything about it.

That link doesn't work....

 

[P F Tinmore]

montelatici, ET AL,

Just a minor correction.

The Survey of Palestine is the ultimate source document for the the history of the Mandate. The source was the official Anglo-American Committee of Enquiry, chartered by the U.S. and UK Governments. It is an official U.S. Government document published by the U.S. Government Printing office. Interestingly, there is a UN Resolution in the form of a letter from the UK government to the UN, which summarizes the facts in the Survey.

UNITED
NATIONS
A

• 
  General Assembly

A/AC.14/8
2 October 1947

ORIGINAL: ENGLISH
AD HOC COMMITTEE ON THE PALESTINIAN QUESTION
COMMUNICATION FROM THE UNITED KINGDOM DELEGATION TO
THE UNITED NATIONS

The following letter has been received from the United Kingdom Delegation to the United Nations:


United Kingdom Delegation to the
United Nations, New York
18 August 1947

Sir:

I have the honour to forward to Your Excellency herewith a memorandum by His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom entitled "Political History of Palestine under British Administration".


Now, stop your phoenalling.

(COMMENT)

There is no "UN Resolution" contained here; in any form. It is a run of the mill Document.

The Document Number (A/AC.14.8) indicates that it is a General Assembly -- ad Hoc Committee --- Palestine --- Series 8.

UN Resolutions have a different number sequence and format.

It is a very good document for UK Perspective, but it is not ultimate source. I have used it quite extensively over the years.

It seems that you might be confusing two documents:

• A/AC.14/8 2 October 1947 Political History of Palestine under British Administration

• British Mandate: A Survey of Palestine --- prepared by Government of Palestinian (then under British military occupation/Mandate) for the United Nation Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) in 1946

Most Respectfully,
R

From your link:

(i) They were the same underlying causes as those which brought about the “disturbances” of 1920, 1921, 1929 and 1933.​

So they knew what the problem was for 15 years and the assholes did nothing about it. And this report was in 1947 and they were still sitting around saying "duh, what do we do?"

Stupid won the day and there has been war ever since.

 

[montelatici]

I know more than you as I am not blinded by islamonazi propaganda

Are you kidding?

If it isn't from www,israelibullshit.il you don't know anything about it.

So the UN archives and Yale U are no longer valid sources of information ? But islamonazis-r-us. org is

You do not use anything but Hasbara sites. What are you talking about. You deny anything contained in non-partisan academic or governmental archives is valid.

Because not everything in their archives is true, as I have shown with your booklet that was collated from many sources is not a source document for that reason as the actual source is not given.
Now go away and stick your arse in the air as you prostrate yourself to shaitan

Who would you say is a bigger Palestinian Propagadist, Tinmore or Monti ?

The Duke of Hasbara propagandists (King Ruddy and Queen Phoney) can't even spell propagandist. Figures.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Hummm --- in a way, your analysis is partially correct. They did know what the scope and nature of both the cause and the resulting problem was.

From your link:

(i) They were the same underlying causes as those which brought about the “disturbances” of 1920, 1921, 1929 and 1933.​

So they knew what the problem was for 15 years and the assholes did nothing about it. And this report was in 1947 and they were still sitting around saying "duh, what do we do?"

Stupid won the day and there has been war ever since.

(COMMENT)

There are two things here that should be said.

• There was never a way to calculate the persistence of the Arab Palestinian resistance. No one ever thought that the Palestinians would give-up on nation building and national aspirations and opt instead to go into a continuous losing War mode.

• While the regional adjacent Arab States have pretty much decided not to pursue hostilities, it is the Hostile Palestinian that has lost all national aspirations.

Just as none of the major powers will interfere in the annexation by the Russian Federation of the internationally recognized Ukrainian territory of Crimea (10,425 sq mi)(about the size of Massachusetts); March 2014 --- It is just as likely that, as long as Israel can contain the Hostile Arab Palestinian, none of the Regional Powers will go to war again over the West Bank and Gaza Strip (2,317 sq mi)(about the size of the Everglades).

Stupid did not win the day. The Arab Palestinians were not cooperating and were not entitled to sovereignty, having rejected a number of overtures from the Government of Palestine, the International Community moved on with the more cooperative --- the consequences are clear.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

The Palestinians tried starting from the 1920s to gain independence. They proposed a constitution that was secular giving all confessions equal rights. The British refused because their goal was to implement Jew rule over non-Jews, in contravention of the Covenant of the League of Nations, the terms of the Mandate and the Charter of the United Nations. They more or less said so in their final letter to the UN regarding Palestine.

UNITED
NATIONS
A

• 
  General Assembly

A/AC.14/8
2 October 1947

ORIGINAL: ENGLISH
AD HOC COMMITTEE ON THE PALESTINIAN QUESTION
COMMUNICATION FROM THE UNITED KINGDOM DELEGATION TO
THE UNITED NATIONS

The following letter has been received from the United Kingdom Delegation to the United Nations:


United Kingdom Delegation to the
United Nations, New York
18 August 1947

Sir:

I have the honour to forward to Your Excellency herewith a memorandum by His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom entitled "Political History of Palestine under British Administration".

This memorandum constitutes His Majesty's Government's account of their administration of the league of Nations mandate in Palestine, and is sent to you in accordance with the undertaking given in my note of 2nd April, in which I had the honour to request that the problem of Palestine should be placed on the Agenda of the General Assembly at its next regular session. I shall be grateful, therefore, if you will arrange for this document to be issued as an Assembly document in connexion with Item 21 of the Provisional Agenda of the Second Regular Session of the General Assembly, which was circulated on the 18th July last.

I should call your attention to the fact that this memorandum has already been made available to the Special Committee on Palestine established by the Special Session of the General Assembly called at the request of the United Kingdom Government and which met on April 28th last. His Majesty's Government thought it advisable that the memorandum be communicated to the Special Committee since, as I had the honour to inform the Special Assembly, my Government wished to be entirely at the disposal of the Committee and to give it all the information that it might require.

...............12. Foremost among the exponents of Zionism at that time was Dr. Weizmann. When a Zionist delegation appeared at the Peace Conference in 1919, the American Secretary of State (Mr. Lansing) asked them exactly what was meant by the phrase, a Jewish national home. Dr. Weizmann answered him as follows:-

• 
  “The Zionist organization did not want an autonomous Jewish Government, but merely to establish in Palestine, under a mandatory Power, an administration not necessarily Jewish, which would render it possible to send into Palestine 70 to 80,000 Jews annually. The Zionist Association would require to have permission at the same time to build Jewish schools, where Hebrew would be taught, and in that was to build up gradually a nationality which would be as Jewish as the French nation was French and the British nation British. Later on, when the Jews formed the large majority, they would be ripe to establish such a Government as would answer to the state of the development of the country and to their ideals.”13. The King-Crane Commission, touring Palestine later in the same years, found that the Jewish colonists were similarly looking to a radical transformation of the country:
  • 
    “The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission’s conference with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine....."

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Hummm --- in a way, your analysis is partially correct. They did know what the scope and nature of both the cause and the resulting problem was.

From your link:

(i) They were the same underlying causes as those which brought about the “disturbances” of 1920, 1921, 1929 and 1933.​

So they knew what the problem was for 15 years and the assholes did nothing about it. And this report was in 1947 and they were still sitting around saying "duh, what do we do?"

Stupid won the day and there has been war ever since.

(COMMENT)

There are two things here that should be said.

• There was never a way to calculate the persistence of the Arab Palestinian resistance. No one ever thought that the Palestinians would give-up on nation building and national aspirations and opt instead to go into a continuous losing War mode.

• While the regional adjacent Arab States have pretty much decided not to pursue hostilities, it is the Hostile Palestinian that has lost all national aspirations.

Just as none of the major powers will interfere in the annexation by the Russian Federation of the internationally recognized Ukrainian territory of Crimea (10,425 sq mi)(about the size of Massachusetts); March 2014 --- It is just as likely that, as long as Israel can contain the Hostile Arab Palestinian, none of the Regional Powers will go to war again over the West Bank and Gaza Strip (2,317 sq mi)(about the size of the Everglades).

Stupid did not win the day. The Arab Palestinians were not cooperating and were not entitled to sovereignty, having rejected a number of overtures from the Government of Palestine, the International Community moved on with the more cooperative --- the consequences are clear.

Most Respectfully,
R

Stupid did not win the day.​

Are you kidding? Starting a hundred year (and counting) war when the solution was at their fingertips was not stupid? It was the epitome of stupid.

And Britain still wants to continue the war.

The Arab Palestinians were not cooperating...​

Indeed, and they are still rejecting the Zionist's colonial project. Perhaps the Zionists should have picked a more docile people to colonize.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

It is not about the people (Arabs, Muslims, Islamic radicals) --- it was never about the people. It is about the culture and the preservation of ancient beliefs.

Stupid did not win the day.​

Are you kidding? Starting a hundred year (and counting) war when the solution was at their fingertips was not stupid? It was the epitome of stupid.

And Britain still wants to continue the war.

The Arab Palestinians were not cooperating...​

Indeed, and they are still rejecting the Zionist's colonial project. Perhaps the Zionists should have picked a more docile people to colonize.

(COMMENT)

Well, the war has lasted almost a century, if we start counting from the time of the Sykes-Picot Agreement (16 May 1916), and with Arab Revolt which began on (5 June 1916). Forces commanded by Sharif Hussein ibn Ali’s sons, the Emirs Ali and Feisal, attacked the Ottoman garrison at Medina. Certainly, if not by then --- then the Balfour Declaration was the start of the fire (2 November 1917).

But as Wars go, this was not of the magnitude or scope and nature that worried the Allied Powers or the UN. If the status quo can be maintained for another half century, most of the issues will have been resolved.

The solution was never at their finger tips. The objective was to create a Jewish National Home. There was never an objective to placate the Arab Palestinian. Those were ancillary compromises. The longer the Arab Palestinian waits to enter into good faith negotiations --- the more Area "C" will be developed by the Israelis. The Arab Palestinian is just another substandard culture left behind because they could not adapt, were too violent and unproductive.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

It is not about the people (Arabs, Muslims, Islamic radicals) --- it was never about the people. It is about the culture and the preservation of ancient beliefs.

Stupid did not win the day.​

Are you kidding? Starting a hundred year (and counting) war when the solution was at their fingertips was not stupid? It was the epitome of stupid.

And Britain still wants to continue the war.

The Arab Palestinians were not cooperating...​

Indeed, and they are still rejecting the Zionist's colonial project. Perhaps the Zionists should have picked a more docile people to colonize.

(COMMENT)

Well, the war has lasted almost a century, if we start counting from the time of the Sykes-Picot Agreement (16 May 1916), and with Arab Revolt which began on (5 June 1916). Forces commanded by Sharif Hussein ibn Ali’s sons, the Emirs Ali and Feisal, attacked the Ottoman garrison at Medina. Certainly, if not by then --- then the Balfour Declaration was the start of the fire (2 November 1917).

But as Wars go, this was not of the magnitude or scope and nature that worried the Allied Powers or the UN. If the status quo can be maintained for another half century, most of the issues will have been resolved.

The solution was never at their finger tips. The objective was to create a Jewish National Home. There was never an objective to placate the Arab Palestinian. Those were ancillary compromises. The longer the Arab Palestinian waits to enter into good faith negotiations --- the more Area "C" will be developed by the Israelis. The Arab Palestinian is just another substandard culture left behind because they could not adapt, were too violent and unproductive.

Most Respectfully,
R

87. The members of the Peel Commission were led by their diagnosis of the situation in Palestine to the conclusion that the obligations imposed upon the Mandatory by the terms of the Mandate were mutually irreconcilable.​

That was the story for three decades.

People had been telling them for years that their stupid plan was not going to work. The facts on the ground said that their stupid plan was not working.

So they went ahead anyway and started a hundred year (and counting) war.

Stupid won the day.