The Palestinian Emirates "Solution"

[Coyote]

Having an airport would be no different to not having one?
You should stop dreaming about Israel's disappearance,there's no way around it. If You think Gaza should not develop until the the day Israel is gone...then You're just part of the problem, not the solution.

Israel is the only one denying Palestinian development.

You have nothing.
Pretty pathetic how Israel-hater will fight any opportunity to make Palestinian lives better.

Let me know when Israel allows Palestinian development.

We're discussing it right now.

The only thing needed is a change in Israel's policies.

Israel's policies are exampled by western style representative governments, free markets / free trade, secure borders and those attributes which define a first world society. Unfortunately, the islamic middle east has never embraced those attributes.

You want conflict and you want bloodshed. You have this retrograde notion that all your ills will be solved with the destruction of Israel. What you won't acknowledge is that overwhelmingly, the slaughter that Moslems are so willing to inflict on one-another has nothing to do with the existence of Israel.

Oh jeese.

Just ignore her...

 

[admonit]

I'm actually gonna a write an article with the goal of getting this published. I'll rough out a map tonight. Roughly, ALL the neighbors cede a bit of land to build an elevated expressway. Roughly starts at the Egyptian Gate (both sides) at Gaza -- winds thru the Sinai (mostly unpopulated) -- up the Israeli side of the Dead Sea -- All with limited access. Then it goes up the Jordan River valley (maybe both sides eventually) with feeders into the semi-autonomous Palestinian city states and a route to East Jerusalem as well. Would connect to Jordan of course at two or more major roads. COULD continue to the N. extreme of Israel to connect Lebanon and potentially Syria and Iraq (not any time soon).

The RESULT is a Trade Route that connects the entire Arab Middle East. And these proposed Pali city states are at the HUB of all that trade. It requires VERY LITTLE of land ceded by Israel in places where it doesn't matter all that much..

Admin of this route would be jointly secured by Egypt, Jordan, Israel and whatever loose Palestinian Federation comes into existence. Does NOT require a UNITY Pali National Govt that's been missing for centuries. But it's an offer ANY resident of the area would be stupid to refuse. And the WORLD could certainly fund it out of petty cash compared to the cost of continuing the conflict. Gaza would have a REAL seaport, And an airport in the West Bank accessible by this route.

I calculated this about 400 to 700 miles of super hiway. With limited on/off access. And a couple bridges. It's ELEVATED to enhance security and minimize the footprint on the existing roads and land.

Although I have some reservations about the main artery of the road going through Gaza and talking about and mentioning an airport and a seaport in the same breath, I'd like to see the article first.

This idea is principally based the same way if I understand You, looks impossible with Gaza under Hamas, but there're options:



"The deal of the century"?

I hear the Island would be in Israel's territorial waters. So it would be no different than now.

With Hamas there -- wouldn't even happen. But all this more COULD happen and make Palestinians very rich and alive and happy...

Nothing prevents them from being rich and alive today. The conflict is not about money.

You SERIOUS? A badly run 50 year occupation and no self govt or access to trade routes isn't "nothing".

I'll agree -- they are MUCH better off in "Palestine" than most of the other Palestinians in putrid detention camps in the rest of the Middle East -- but they are ISOLATED geographically and economically and LEGALLY..

I'm very serious and say it again: the conflict is not about money. Everybody knows it. Even camels, which I can see from my window, know it.
If you think, that the problem is in "illegal occupation", a term which even the State Department today tries to avoid, then you should seek a serious political solution.
And BTW they have self government and they have access to trade routes. How do you think they import and export goods? Using magic Aladdin's lamp?

 

[danielpalos]

A Deylicate could ensure Order over Chaos, every time this issue comes up; that is what they are Good for.

Palestinian society and politics are strongly based on family and tribal relations.
I think a Dey is an unfamiliar position for the majority of Arabs in Asia.

The Emirate idea is not about creating new institutions but working with the natural representatives of the society, creating solid connections with the natural leaders of the community who have the authority on the ground within each city- those are traditionally Sheikhs and Emirs.

Why are we having problems in that region?

Is it "serious" or not; a Dey should make things happen within His jurisdiction.

To address your concerns:

The dey was chosen by local civilian, military, and religious leaders to govern for life and ruled with a high degree of autonomy

A Dey has no provision excuses: Only Results. As lord spiritual and temporal in His jurisdiction; the People really can have a sense of Entitlement, to Deliver All of their Problems, unto their lord.

Only a Dey can make a bright new day, in Palestine.

Ok, steps of implementation?

The dey was chosen by local civilian, military, and religious leaders to govern for life and ruled with a high degree of autonomy.

The main sources of his revenues were taxes on the agricultural population, religious tributes, and protection payments rendered by Corsairs, regarded as pirates who preyed on Mediterranean shipping.

An updated Charter may be in order.

 

[member]

We have had discussions on two-state, three-state and one-state "solutions" - this is a new one that has not had a discussion devoted to it. Thank you rylah for bringing it up.

The link is: Palestinian Emirates Introduction

The idea is fascinating. I disagree with some of his historic preamble...but that is neither hear nor there.

Some of the points he makes are valid imo. The non-nationalist loyalties of the Palestinian's themselves that is also reflective of the Arab culture surrounding them in general - stronger loyalties to family, tribe and locale than to a "nation". This is evident in the high degree of corruption in the ruling parties. A more local governance might be more effective. There was a day when city-states were common - before the idea of nation states came into being. This might be a viable answer.

My one major concern is this. Dr. Kedar makes a point that no Jewish families should be forced to move (as would happen in a two-state solution) - but, in this solution - neither should any Palestinian families. Their right to remain where they are must be preserved.

What are your thoughts on this?

What are your thoughts on this?




...the spokespeople for "the average-joe paletinian are:

- Hamass. Terrorists

- and abbass: a nazi ("the jews brought the holocaust upon themselves")

solution(s): eeew. not this with mentality in charge."

 

[flacaltenn]

And BTW they have self government and they have access to trade routes. How do you think they import and export goods? Using magic Aladdin's lamp?

What kind of "self-government" do they have? Youre ignoring these facts that they've hardly EVER had any "self-governing" in their entire history. Even "Pre-Palestine". They COULD have had a seaport and airport in Gaza. It was part of the joint agreement before that deal blew up.. They DO export from Gaza. Mostly farm products and simple processed foods. It's not reliable because they DO NOT HAVE a trade corridor.

In a way, I agree that it's not about trade, prosperity, money to a LOT of Palestinians. But those folks are not leaders or peace makers or nation builders. I agree there is NOT a pressing desire to advance into the 21st century as there is in most of the Arabian/Levant countries. And even in the "advanced" Arab world integrated countries like Egypt, Jordan, (used to be Lebanon), some of the Emirates ---- there's a general lack of desire to GIVE any govt the green light for any speedy progress and infrastructure.

But here's the deal. In another 50 years, these major Pali areas will be totally cut off from one another, turned into festering ghettos and become volatile beyond belief if Israel continues to strangle them a hectare at a time. HOW LONG you want to endure that process?

The only way to NEGOTIATE with a splintered Tribal/Religious/cultural anarchy mob -- is to give them a life in THIS CENTURY and let the leaders come forward to SELL and manage that transition. Much the way the Saudi tribe worked out how to connect with the world and look completely organized and legit and respected by the world.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Although I have some reservations about the main artery of the road going through Gaza and talking about and mentioning an airport and a seaport in the same breath, I'd like to see the article first.

This idea is principally based the same way if I understand You, looks impossible with Gaza under Hamas, but there're options:



"The deal of the century"?

I hear the Island would be in Israel's territorial waters. So it would be no different than now.

With Hamas there -- wouldn't even happen. But all this more COULD happen and make Palestinians very rich and alive and happy...

Nothing prevents them from being rich and alive today. The conflict is not about money.

You SERIOUS? A badly run 50 year occupation and no self govt or access to trade routes isn't "nothing".

I'll agree -- they are MUCH better off in "Palestine" than most of the other Palestinians in putrid detention camps in the rest of the Middle East -- but they are ISOLATED geographically and economically and LEGALLY..

I'm very serious and say it again: the conflict is not about money. Everybody knows it. Even camels, which I can see from my window, know it.
If you think, that the problem is in "illegal occupation", a term which even the State Department today tries to avoid, then you should seek a serious political solution.
And BTW they have self government and they have access to trade routes. How do you think they import and export goods? Using magic Aladdin's lamp?

You can see camels from your window? Do you live in Israel?

 

[admonit]

And BTW they have self government and they have access to trade routes. How do you think they import and export goods? Using magic Aladdin's lamp?

What kind of "self-government" do they have?

The government which they elected.

Youre ignoring these facts that they've hardly EVER had any "self-governing" in their entire history. Even "Pre-Palestine".

It's their problem.

They COULD have had a seaport and airport in Gaza. It was part of the joint agreement before that deal blew up.. They DO export from Gaza. Mostly farm products and simple processed foods. It's not reliable because they DO NOT HAVE a trade corridor.

How it can be reliable if the Palestinians, as part of their terrorist activity, constantly attack and burn goods crossings?

In a way, I agree that it's not about trade, prosperity, money to a LOT of Palestinians. But those folks are not leaders or peace makers or nation builders..

Of course they are. Anyway, who is or who is not their leaders is an internal affair of Palestinians.

But here's the deal. In another 50 years, these major Pali areas will be totally cut off from one another, turned into festering ghettos and become volatile beyond belief if Israel continues to strangle them a hectare at a time. HOW LONG you want to endure that process?

Exactly as long as Palestinians deny Israeli security and national interests. I suppose it will be very long.

The only way to NEGOTIATE with a splintered Tribal/Religious/cultural anarchy mob -- is to give them a life in THIS CENTURY and let the leaders come forward to SELL and manage that transition. Much the way the Saudi tribe worked out how to connect with the world and look completely organized and legit and respected by the world.

What leaders? And who prevents them to come forward and to manage? Again, Palestinian leaders are an internal Palestinian affair.
The world respects Saudi oil, not the country.

 

[admonit]

I hear the Island would be in Israel's territorial waters. So it would be no different than now.

With Hamas there -- wouldn't even happen. But all this more COULD happen and make Palestinians very rich and alive and happy...

Nothing prevents them from being rich and alive today. The conflict is not about money.

You SERIOUS? A badly run 50 year occupation and no self govt or access to trade routes isn't "nothing".

I'll agree -- they are MUCH better off in "Palestine" than most of the other Palestinians in putrid detention camps in the rest of the Middle East -- but they are ISOLATED geographically and economically and LEGALLY..

I'm very serious and say it again: the conflict is not about money. Everybody knows it. Even camels, which I can see from my window, know it.
If you think, that the problem is in "illegal occupation", a term which even the State Department today tries to avoid, then you should seek a serious political solution.
And BTW they have self government and they have access to trade routes. How do you think they import and export goods? Using magic Aladdin's lamp?

You can see camels from your window? Do you live in Israel?

Yes. Well, in fact, I see more sheep than camels..

 

[P F Tinmore]

And BTW they have self government and they have access to trade routes. How do you think they import and export goods? Using magic Aladdin's lamp?

What kind of "self-government" do they have? Youre ignoring these facts that they've hardly EVER had any "self-governing" in their entire history. Even "Pre-Palestine". They COULD have had a seaport and airport in Gaza. It was part of the joint agreement before that deal blew up.. They DO export from Gaza. Mostly farm products and simple processed foods. It's not reliable because they DO NOT HAVE a trade corridor.

In a way, I agree that it's not about trade, prosperity, money to a LOT of Palestinians. But those folks are not leaders or peace makers or nation builders. I agree there is NOT a pressing desire to advance into the 21st century as there is in most of the Arabian/Levant countries. And even in the "advanced" Arab world integrated countries like Egypt, Jordan, (used to be Lebanon), some of the Emirates ---- there's a general lack of desire to GIVE any govt the green light for any speedy progress and infrastructure.

But here's the deal. In another 50 years, these major Pali areas will be totally cut off from one another, turned into festering ghettos and become volatile beyond belief if Israel continues to strangle them a hectare at a time. HOW LONG you want to endure that process?

The only way to NEGOTIATE with a splintered Tribal/Religious/cultural anarchy mob -- is to give them a life in THIS CENTURY and let the leaders come forward to SELL and manage that transition. Much the way the Saudi tribe worked out how to connect with the world and look completely organized and legit and respected by the world.

What kind of "self-government" do they have? Youre ignoring these facts that they've hardly EVER had any "self-governing" in their entire history.

Good point. Palestine was born under military occupation and has not seen a day without one all through to today. All of their so called leadership has been appointed by foreigners.

 

[rylah]

And BTW they have self government and they have access to trade routes. How do you think they import and export goods? Using magic Aladdin's lamp?

What kind of "self-government" do they have? Youre ignoring these facts that they've hardly EVER had any "self-governing" in their entire history. Even "Pre-Palestine". They COULD have had a seaport and airport in Gaza. It was part of the joint agreement before that deal blew up.. They DO export from Gaza. Mostly farm products and simple processed foods. It's not reliable because they DO NOT HAVE a trade corridor.

In a way, I agree that it's not about trade, prosperity, money to a LOT of Palestinians. But those folks are not leaders or peace makers or nation builders. I agree there is NOT a pressing desire to advance into the 21st century as there is in most of the Arabian/Levant countries. And even in the "advanced" Arab world integrated countries like Egypt, Jordan, (used to be Lebanon), some of the Emirates ---- there's a general lack of desire to GIVE any govt the green light for any speedy progress and infrastructure.

But here's the deal. In another 50 years, these major Pali areas will be totally cut off from one another, turned into festering ghettos and become volatile beyond belief if Israel continues to strangle them a hectare at a time. HOW LONG you want to endure that process?

The only way to NEGOTIATE with a splintered Tribal/Religious/cultural anarchy mob -- is to give them a life in THIS CENTURY and let the leaders come forward to SELL and manage that transition. Much the way the Saudi tribe worked out how to connect with the world and look completely organized and legit and respected by the world.

What kind of "self-government" do they have? Youre ignoring these facts that they've hardly EVER had any "self-governing" in their entire history.

Good point. Palestine was born under military occupation and has not seen a day without one all through to today. All of their so called leadership has been appointed by foreigners.

If Palestine was born out of occupation - then 'Palestine' is itself occupation with no tail in the past.
Are You done with stupid self-defeating slogans?

Really You're the only one here fighting any notion of improvement and normalization, at the expense for ALL sides, and especially the Palestinian Arabs, who need it more than anyone.

You actually want them to stay behind so You have something to sell about how "bad Israel is", otherwise Your/Hamas position loses all ground of relevancy. All while in reality Israel is the one suggesting HUGE change in relations and wellbeing of ALL, not just Israel or Palestinan Arabs...but the WHOLE REGION.

 

[P F Tinmore]

And BTW they have self government and they have access to trade routes. How do you think they import and export goods? Using magic Aladdin's lamp?

What kind of "self-government" do they have? Youre ignoring these facts that they've hardly EVER had any "self-governing" in their entire history. Even "Pre-Palestine". They COULD have had a seaport and airport in Gaza. It was part of the joint agreement before that deal blew up.. They DO export from Gaza. Mostly farm products and simple processed foods. It's not reliable because they DO NOT HAVE a trade corridor.

In a way, I agree that it's not about trade, prosperity, money to a LOT of Palestinians. But those folks are not leaders or peace makers or nation builders. I agree there is NOT a pressing desire to advance into the 21st century as there is in most of the Arabian/Levant countries. And even in the "advanced" Arab world integrated countries like Egypt, Jordan, (used to be Lebanon), some of the Emirates ---- there's a general lack of desire to GIVE any govt the green light for any speedy progress and infrastructure.

But here's the deal. In another 50 years, these major Pali areas will be totally cut off from one another, turned into festering ghettos and become volatile beyond belief if Israel continues to strangle them a hectare at a time. HOW LONG you want to endure that process?

The only way to NEGOTIATE with a splintered Tribal/Religious/cultural anarchy mob -- is to give them a life in THIS CENTURY and let the leaders come forward to SELL and manage that transition. Much the way the Saudi tribe worked out how to connect with the world and look completely organized and legit and respected by the world.

What kind of "self-government" do they have? Youre ignoring these facts that they've hardly EVER had any "self-governing" in their entire history.

Good point. Palestine was born under military occupation and has not seen a day without one all through to today. All of their so called leadership has been appointed by foreigners.

If Palestine was born out of occupation - then 'Palestine' is itself occupation with no tail in the past.
Are You done with stupid self-defeating slogans?

Really You're the only one here fighting any notion of improvement and normalization, at the expense for ALL sides, and especially the Palestinian Arabs, who need it more than anyone.

You actually want them to stay behind so You have something to sell about how "bad Israel is", otherwise Your/Hamas position loses all ground of relevancy. All while in reality Israel is the one suggesting HUGE change in relations and wellbeing of ALL, not just Israel or Palestinan Arabs...but the WHOLE REGION.

You misread my post.

 

[rylah]

And BTW they have self government and they have access to trade routes. How do you think they import and export goods? Using magic Aladdin's lamp?

What kind of "self-government" do they have? Youre ignoring these facts that they've hardly EVER had any "self-governing" in their entire history. Even "Pre-Palestine". They COULD have had a seaport and airport in Gaza. It was part of the joint agreement before that deal blew up.. They DO export from Gaza. Mostly farm products and simple processed foods. It's not reliable because they DO NOT HAVE a trade corridor.

In a way, I agree that it's not about trade, prosperity, money to a LOT of Palestinians. But those folks are not leaders or peace makers or nation builders. I agree there is NOT a pressing desire to advance into the 21st century as there is in most of the Arabian/Levant countries. And even in the "advanced" Arab world integrated countries like Egypt, Jordan, (used to be Lebanon), some of the Emirates ---- there's a general lack of desire to GIVE any govt the green light for any speedy progress and infrastructure.

But here's the deal. In another 50 years, these major Pali areas will be totally cut off from one another, turned into festering ghettos and become volatile beyond belief if Israel continues to strangle them a hectare at a time. HOW LONG you want to endure that process?

The only way to NEGOTIATE with a splintered Tribal/Religious/cultural anarchy mob -- is to give them a life in THIS CENTURY and let the leaders come forward to SELL and manage that transition. Much the way the Saudi tribe worked out how to connect with the world and look completely organized and legit and respected by the world.

What kind of "self-government" do they have? Youre ignoring these facts that they've hardly EVER had any "self-governing" in their entire history.

Good point. Palestine was born under military occupation and has not seen a day without one all through to today. All of their so called leadership has been appointed by foreigners.

If Palestine was born out of occupation - then 'Palestine' is itself occupation with no tail in the past.
Are You done with stupid self-defeating slogans?

Really You're the only one here fighting any notion of improvement and normalization, at the expense for ALL sides, and especially the Palestinian Arabs, who need it more than anyone.

You actually want them to stay behind so You have something to sell about how "bad Israel is", otherwise Your/Hamas position loses all ground of relevancy. All while in reality Israel is the one suggesting HUGE change in relations and wellbeing of ALL, not just Israel or Palestinan Arabs...but the WHOLE REGION.

You misread my post.

I read You spot on, it's irrelevant.

 

[P F Tinmore]

And BTW they have self government and they have access to trade routes. How do you think they import and export goods? Using magic Aladdin's lamp?

What kind of "self-government" do they have? Youre ignoring these facts that they've hardly EVER had any "self-governing" in their entire history. Even "Pre-Palestine". They COULD have had a seaport and airport in Gaza. It was part of the joint agreement before that deal blew up.. They DO export from Gaza. Mostly farm products and simple processed foods. It's not reliable because they DO NOT HAVE a trade corridor.

In a way, I agree that it's not about trade, prosperity, money to a LOT of Palestinians. But those folks are not leaders or peace makers or nation builders. I agree there is NOT a pressing desire to advance into the 21st century as there is in most of the Arabian/Levant countries. And even in the "advanced" Arab world integrated countries like Egypt, Jordan, (used to be Lebanon), some of the Emirates ---- there's a general lack of desire to GIVE any govt the green light for any speedy progress and infrastructure.

But here's the deal. In another 50 years, these major Pali areas will be totally cut off from one another, turned into festering ghettos and become volatile beyond belief if Israel continues to strangle them a hectare at a time. HOW LONG you want to endure that process?

The only way to NEGOTIATE with a splintered Tribal/Religious/cultural anarchy mob -- is to give them a life in THIS CENTURY and let the leaders come forward to SELL and manage that transition. Much the way the Saudi tribe worked out how to connect with the world and look completely organized and legit and respected by the world.

What kind of "self-government" do they have? Youre ignoring these facts that they've hardly EVER had any "self-governing" in their entire history.

Good point. Palestine was born under military occupation and has not seen a day without one all through to today. All of their so called leadership has been appointed by foreigners.

If Palestine was born out of occupation - then 'Palestine' is itself occupation with no tail in the past.
Are You done with stupid self-defeating slogans?

Really You're the only one here fighting any notion of improvement and normalization, at the expense for ALL sides, and especially the Palestinian Arabs, who need it more than anyone.

You actually want them to stay behind so You have something to sell about how "bad Israel is", otherwise Your/Hamas position loses all ground of relevancy. All while in reality Israel is the one suggesting HUGE change in relations and wellbeing of ALL, not just Israel or Palestinan Arabs...but the WHOLE REGION.

You misread my post.

I read You spot on, it's irrelevant.

You were just spewing shit that had nothing to do with anything I have said.

 

[rylah]

What kind of "self-government" do they have? Youre ignoring these facts that they've hardly EVER had any "self-governing" in their entire history. Even "Pre-Palestine". They COULD have had a seaport and airport in Gaza. It was part of the joint agreement before that deal blew up.. They DO export from Gaza. Mostly farm products and simple processed foods. It's not reliable because they DO NOT HAVE a trade corridor.

In a way, I agree that it's not about trade, prosperity, money to a LOT of Palestinians. But those folks are not leaders or peace makers or nation builders. I agree there is NOT a pressing desire to advance into the 21st century as there is in most of the Arabian/Levant countries. And even in the "advanced" Arab world integrated countries like Egypt, Jordan, (used to be Lebanon), some of the Emirates ---- there's a general lack of desire to GIVE any govt the green light for any speedy progress and infrastructure.

But here's the deal. In another 50 years, these major Pali areas will be totally cut off from one another, turned into festering ghettos and become volatile beyond belief if Israel continues to strangle them a hectare at a time. HOW LONG you want to endure that process?

The only way to NEGOTIATE with a splintered Tribal/Religious/cultural anarchy mob -- is to give them a life in THIS CENTURY and let the leaders come forward to SELL and manage that transition. Much the way the Saudi tribe worked out how to connect with the world and look completely organized and legit and respected by the world.

What kind of "self-government" do they have? Youre ignoring these facts that they've hardly EVER had any "self-governing" in their entire history.

Good point. Palestine was born under military occupation and has not seen a day without one all through to today. All of their so called leadership has been appointed by foreigners.

If Palestine was born out of occupation - then 'Palestine' is itself occupation with no tail in the past.
Are You done with stupid self-defeating slogans?

Really You're the only one here fighting any notion of improvement and normalization, at the expense for ALL sides, and especially the Palestinian Arabs, who need it more than anyone.

You actually want them to stay behind so You have something to sell about how "bad Israel is", otherwise Your/Hamas position loses all ground of relevancy. All while in reality Israel is the one suggesting HUGE change in relations and wellbeing of ALL, not just Israel or Palestinan Arabs...but the WHOLE REGION.

You misread my post.

I read You spot on, it's irrelevant.

You were just spewing shit that had nothing to do with anything I have said.

Discussing historic narratives of what happened a 100 years ago through beat up slogans- has zero relevance to reality. You just want the conflict to continue at the expense of ALL sides.

Q. What can You bring to the table that is of relevance in regards to normalization?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Good point. Palestine was born under military occupation and has not seen a day without one all through to today. All of their so called leadership has been appointed by foreigners.

If Palestine was born out of occupation - then 'Palestine' is itself occupation with no tail in the past.
Are You done with stupid self-defeating slogans?

Really You're the only one here fighting any notion of improvement and normalization, at the expense for ALL sides, and especially the Palestinian Arabs, who need it more than anyone.

You actually want them to stay behind so You have something to sell about how "bad Israel is", otherwise Your/Hamas position loses all ground of relevancy. All while in reality Israel is the one suggesting HUGE change in relations and wellbeing of ALL, not just Israel or Palestinan Arabs...but the WHOLE REGION.

You misread my post.

I read You spot on, it's irrelevant.

You were just spewing shit that had nothing to do with anything I have said.

Discussing historic narratives of what happened a 100 years ago through beat up slogans- has zero relevance to reality. You just want the conflict to continue at the expense of ALL sides.

Q. What can You bring to the table that is of relevance in regards to normalization?

You are grasping at straws.

 

[rylah]

If Palestine was born out of occupation - then 'Palestine' is itself occupation with no tail in the past.
Are You done with stupid self-defeating slogans?

Really You're the only one here fighting any notion of improvement and normalization, at the expense for ALL sides, and especially the Palestinian Arabs, who need it more than anyone.

You actually want them to stay behind so You have something to sell about how "bad Israel is", otherwise Your/Hamas position loses all ground of relevancy. All while in reality Israel is the one suggesting HUGE change in relations and wellbeing of ALL, not just Israel or Palestinan Arabs...but the WHOLE REGION.

You misread my post.

I read You spot on, it's irrelevant.

You were just spewing shit that had nothing to do with anything I have said.

Discussing historic narratives of what happened a 100 years ago through beat up slogans- has zero relevance to reality. You just want the conflict to continue at the expense of ALL sides.

Q. What can You bring to the table that is of relevance in regards to normalization?

You are grasping at straws.

Look, You've made a funny, that's about the maximum level of substance You can bring to the table.

Q. Again why are You even relevant to the conversation, if all you seek is the continuation of conflict at the expense of ALL?

 

[P F Tinmore]

You misread my post.

I read You spot on, it's irrelevant.

You were just spewing shit that had nothing to do with anything I have said.

Discussing historic narratives of what happened a 100 years ago through beat up slogans- has zero relevance to reality. You just want the conflict to continue at the expense of ALL sides.

Q. What can You bring to the table that is of relevance in regards to normalization?

You are grasping at straws.

Look, You've made a funny, that's about the maximum level of substance You can bring to the table.

Q. Again why are You even relevant to the conversation, if all you seek is the continuation of conflict at the expense of ALL?

Don't blame me for your reading comprehension problems.

 

[rylah]

I read You spot on, it's irrelevant.

You were just spewing shit that had nothing to do with anything I have said.

Discussing historic narratives of what happened a 100 years ago through beat up slogans- has zero relevance to reality. You just want the conflict to continue at the expense of ALL sides.

Q. What can You bring to the table that is of relevance in regards to normalization?

You are grasping at straws.

Look, You've made a funny, that's about the maximum level of substance You can bring to the table.

Q. Again why are You even relevant to the conversation, if all you seek is the continuation of conflict at the expense of ALL?

Don't blame me for your reading comprehension problems.

^^^^^

I comprehend your self defeating position pretty well,
one doesn't need a university degree to understand that Your argument stops at the point of written slogans from the 60's. That's about how much You're capable of independent thought.

Again, what makes You better than a cassette of old jokes transmitted through a megaphone?

 

[jillian]

We have had discussions on two-state, three-state and one-state "solutions" - this is a new one that has not had a discussion devoted to it. Thank you rylah for bringing it up.

The link is: Palestinian Emirates Introduction

The idea is fascinating. I disagree with some of his historic preamble...but that is neither hear nor there.

Some of the points he makes are valid imo. The non-nationalist loyalties of the Palestinian's themselves that is also reflective of the Arab culture surrounding them in general - stronger loyalties to family, tribe and locale than to a "nation". This is evident in the high degree of corruption in the ruling parties. A more local governance might be more effective. There was a day when city-states were common - before the idea of nation states came into being. This might be a viable answer.

My one major concern is this. Dr. Kedar makes a point that no Jewish families should be forced to move (as would happen in a two-state solution) - but, in this solution - neither should any Palestinian families. Their right to remain where they are must be preserved.

What are your thoughts on this?

What is there to “disagree” with about historical fact?

I have seen nothing indicating that the so-called Palestinians (who are really trans-Jordanian Bedouin’s) don’t support hamas. Not have I seen anything indicating they want peace (or they would have taken the deal when Arafat was alive that gave them 98% of what they wanted.)

That said it’s not a bad idea. They just would never agree to any deal that doesn’t kill Israel. And that isn’t going to happen.

 

[Coyote]

We have had discussions on two-state, three-state and one-state "solutions" - this is a new one that has not had a discussion devoted to it. Thank you rylah for bringing it up.

The link is: Palestinian Emirates Introduction

The idea is fascinating. I disagree with some of his historic preamble...but that is neither hear nor there.

Some of the points he makes are valid imo. The non-nationalist loyalties of the Palestinian's themselves that is also reflective of the Arab culture surrounding them in general - stronger loyalties to family, tribe and locale than to a "nation". This is evident in the high degree of corruption in the ruling parties. A more local governance might be more effective. There was a day when city-states were common - before the idea of nation states came into being. This might be a viable answer.

My one major concern is this. Dr. Kedar makes a point that no Jewish families should be forced to move (as would happen in a two-state solution) - but, in this solution - neither should any Palestinian families. Their right to remain where they are must be preserved.

What are your thoughts on this?

What is there to “disagree” with about historical fact?

I have seen nothing indicating that the so-called Palestinians (who are really trans-Jordanian Bedouin’s) don’t support hamas. Not have I seen anything indicating they want peace (or they would have taken the deal when Arafat was alive that gave them 98% of what they wanted.)

That said it’s not a bad idea. They just would never agree to any deal that doesn’t kill Israel. And that isn’t going to happen.

The Palestinians are not Bedouin, the Bedouin are Bedouin. The Palestinians are a blend of people’s including those who have been there as long as the Jews at least according to genetic research.

There has long been broad Palestinian support for a two state solution, two sovereign states. It has eroded some however.