The Palestinian Emirates "Solution"

[rylah]

We have had discussions on two-state, three-state and one-state "solutions" - this is a new one that has not had a discussion devoted to it. Thank you rylah for bringing it up.

The link is: Palestinian Emirates Introduction

The idea is fascinating. I disagree with some of his historic preamble...but that is neither hear nor there.

Some of the points he makes are valid imo. The non-nationalist loyalties of the Palestinian's themselves that is also reflective of the Arab culture surrounding them in general - stronger loyalties to family, tribe and locale than to a "nation". This is evident in the high degree of corruption in the ruling parties. A more local governance might be more effective. There was a day when city-states were common - before the idea of nation states came into being. This might be a viable answer.

My one major concern is this. Dr. Kedar makes a point that no Jewish families should be forced to move (as would happen in a two-state solution) - but, in this solution - neither should any Palestinian families. Their right to remain where they are must be preserved.

What are your thoughts on this?

In my opinion, a Deylicate would already have initiatives in progress. What objection can there be to a Dey.

Conflict in the Middle East is becoming a Proverb. There are plenty of emirs.

One of the objections is that a dey has nothing to do with the society at hand.
I know Arab Sheikhs, I haven't met a Dey in my life or heard an Arab mention such a position,

 

[rylah]

We have had discussions on two-state, three-state and one-state "solutions" - this is a new one that has not had a discussion devoted to it. Thank you rylah for bringing it up.

The link is: Palestinian Emirates Introduction

The idea is fascinating. I disagree with some of his historic preamble...but that is neither hear nor there.

Some of the points he makes are valid imo. The non-nationalist loyalties of the Palestinian's themselves that is also reflective of the Arab culture surrounding them in general - stronger loyalties to family, tribe and locale than to a "nation". This is evident in the high degree of corruption in the ruling parties. A more local governance might be more effective. There was a day when city-states were common - before the idea of nation states came into being. This might be a viable answer.

My one major concern is this. Dr. Kedar makes a point that no Jewish families should be forced to move (as would happen in a two-state solution) - but, in this solution - neither should any Palestinian families. Their right to remain where they are must be preserved.

What are your thoughts on this?

In my opinion, a Deylicate would already have initiatives in progress. What objection can there be to a Dey.

Conflict in the Middle East is becoming a Proverb. There are plenty of emirs.

One of the objections is that a dey has nothing to do with the society at hand.
I know Arab Sheikhs, I haven't met a Dey in my life or heard an Arab mention such a position,

who cares.

Conflict in the Middle East is becoming a Proverb. There are plenty of emirs.

A Deylicate of Palestine would ensure Order over Chaos.

Where has any emir ensured Order over Chaos in that region?

In the Emirates D'aaaaahhh.

Is there any more stable form of government in the middle east?

 

[rylah]

Arabia is part of the Middle East; and there is even a League.

What could an emir do that a dey would not?

In my immaculate dream, a Dey as lord Temporal (and spiritual) should have a "tactical scepter" that includes a marshal's baton.

A Dey, could simply command that any given field be marshaled into a productive economy. What emir could say the same.

Any Emir.

 

[danielpalos]

Arabia is part of the Middle East; and there is even a League.

What could an emir do that a dey would not?

In my immaculate dream, a Dey as lord Temporal (and spiritual) should have a "tactical scepter" that includes a marshal's baton.

A Dey, could simply command that any given field be marshaled into a productive economy. What emir could say the same.

Any Emir.

Conflict in the Middle East is becoming a Proverb. There are plenty of emirs.

 

[rylah]

Arabia is part of the Middle East; and there is even a League.

What could an emir do that a dey would not?

In my immaculate dream, a Dey as lord Temporal (and spiritual) should have a "tactical scepter" that includes a marshal's baton.

A Dey, could simply command that any given field be marshaled into a productive economy. What emir could say the same.

Any Emir.

Conflict in the Middle East is becoming a Proverb. There are plenty of emirs.

And most of them are an example of the only stable Arab countries that progress in the middle east.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Hamas fears the Emirate Plan is becoming a reality

 

[Shusha]

Hamas fears the Emirate Plan is becoming a reality

So, I just glanced over that article, but it immediately struck me how much they place responsibility on Israel for this plan becoming a reality rather than on the Arab Palestinians and their lack of unity.

 

[rylah]

Hamas fears the Emirate Plan is becoming a reality

If Hamas already talks about it, then it's going much quicker than I imagined.

This is symbolic of how the notion actually reaches mainstream discourse.
Thank You for the good news, this was an inspiring surprise.

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ How is this for a solution? How similar is it to the Emirates idea? ]


The New State Solution: Turning Gaza Into an Opportunity for Regional Peace

 

[P F Tinmore]

[ How is this for a solution? How similar is it to the Emirates idea? ]


The New State Solution: Turning Gaza Into an Opportunity for Regional Peace

I don't know. It doesn't say much.

 

[member]

A Deylicate could ensure Order over Chaos, every time this issue comes up; that is what they are Good for.

Palestinian society and politics are strongly based on family and tribal relations.
I think a Dey is an unfamiliar position for the majority of Arabs in Asia.

The Emirate idea is not about creating new institutions but working with the natural representatives of the society, creating solid connections with the natural leaders of the community who have the authority on the ground within each city- those are traditionally Sheikhs and Emirs.

That is what intrigues me about the idea. We t end to assume that western style institutions are the only answers, with out regard to the cultures and traditions of the people effected. One thing for sure...Palestinians have had a scarcity of representative leadership and an over abundance of corruption, and yet they are faced with the demand that ther e must be one voice speaking for them as a unified whole. Maybe that is not the answer. Maybe Gaza and WB should be negotiated with as seperate entities for examp,e. Maybe this insistence that there be one voice speaking for all is actually hindering progress towards peace.

“western style institutions are the only answers”



“Palestinians have had a scarcity of representative leadership and an over abundance of corruption"“




“Maybe this insistence that there be one voice speaking for all is actually hindering progress towards peace.”





Yeah, that’s what it is….not enough voices speaking up - hindering the "peace process."

 

[member]

Did you read the link?

I have. It can't work. It would be population centers (bantustans) cut off from the resources and distribution networks required to have a functioning economy. It would be similar to what we have now where the only "economy" is foreign aid.

This is what worked before and is what works in every country. Each city is the center of a support network.

The City State idea HAS worked though - it worked in Italy.

Links?

Rennaiscence history.

A city cannot stand on its own. It needs food, building materials, raw materials for manufacturing, markets for products. It has to somehow be connected to a larger distribution network.

​

“A city cannot stand on its own.”


"It needs food."




". . .building materials..."



" raw materials for manufacturing..."



"markets for products..."


"...It has to somehow be connected


to a larger distribution network......"








oh, they're "connected" alright !

 

[rylah]

A Deylicate could ensure Order over Chaos, every time this issue comes up; that is what they are Good for.

Palestinian society and politics are strongly based on family and tribal relations.
I think a Dey is an unfamiliar position for the majority of Arabs in Asia.

The Emirate idea is not about creating new institutions but working with the natural representatives of the society, creating solid connections with the natural leaders of the community who have the authority on the ground within each city- those are traditionally Sheikhs and Emirs.

That is what intrigues me about the idea. We t end to assume that western style institutions are the only answers, with out regard to the cultures and traditions of the people effected. One thing for sure...Palestinians have had a scarcity of representative leadership and an over abundance of corruption, and yet they are faced with the demand that ther e must be one voice speaking for them as a unified whole. Maybe that is not the answer. Maybe Gaza and WB should be negotiated with as seperate entities for examp,e. Maybe this insistence that there be one voice speaking for all is actually hindering progress towards peace.

“western style institutions are the only answers”



“Palestinians have had a scarcity of representative leadership and an over abundance of corruption"“




“Maybe this insistence that there be one voice speaking for all is actually hindering progress towards peace.”





Yeah, that’s what it is….not enough voices speaking up - hindering the "peace process."

Those are militants on a demonstration somewhere in Gaza probably,
giving more voice to local Sheiks can balance the equation and dry out the militants as a result.

We don't have to convince anyone to give us peace, just give some backup to the local leaders who are open to build bridges as an alternative way to future coexistence.

 

[flacaltenn]

I want to thank rylah, Coyote, Sixties Fan and Hollie and others for the comments and especially the links they tossed into the discussion. I've written a short version of a white paper for this idea of Palestinian City State Emirates connected to Arab neighbors and Israel with a commerce super-hiway. I'm expanding it into a journal article with the references and concepts from the OP and other "alternate" solutions that reflect the actual Palestinian preference for local autonomy and not a "unified federal type government".

When any of these fruits result in publication -- I'll let you know. Have 3 journals in mind -- but would appreciate other suggestions for the right place to present it.

One thing I've uncovered is the amazing past history of trade in the Holy Land and Levant. I've been fascinated in how this idea is really "Back to the Future". If you search "holy land (or Levant) ancient trade routes" on Youtube or Bing you'll find maps placing all of Israel/Palestine neighbors in the middle of MANY ancient trade corridors. The parallels to this modern concept are just "book length" writing that would just have to be briefly mentioned in a journal length article.

 

[rylah]

I want to thank rylah, Coyote, Sixties Fan and Hollie and others for the comments and especially the links they tossed into the discussion. I've written a short version of a white paper for this idea of Palestinian City State Emirates connected to Arab neighbors and Israel with a commerce super-hiway. I'm expanding it into a journal article with the references and concepts from the OP and other "alternate" solutions that reflect the actual Palestinian preference for local autonomy and not a "unified federal type government".

When any of these fruits result in publication -- I'll let you know. Have 3 journals in mind -- but would appreciate other suggestions for the right place to present it.

One thing I've uncovered is the amazing past history of trade in the Holy Land and Levant. I've been fascinated in how this idea is really "Back to the Future". If you search "holy land (or Levant) ancient trade routes" on Youtube or Bing you'll find maps placing all of Israel/Palestine neighbors in the middle of MANY ancient trade corridors. The parallels to this modern concept are just "book length" writing that would just have to be briefly mentioned in a journal length article.

Looking for words to express my amazement and appreciaton...
You have convinced me that sharing practical alternatives on the internet can find open ears and bear fruits of constructive action. More than that it's heartwarming when people are allowing themselves to think out loud, outside the box - for the well being of all sides.

Hope You enjoy the efforts, and expect to read it as soon as available.

 

[rylah]

When any of these fruits result in publication -- I'll let you know. Have 3 journals in mind -- but would appreciate other suggestions for the right place to present it.

I had all kind of suggestions when I first responded, but deleted them.
Because from my experience it's important to let oneself first finish capturing as much as possible without editorial judgment, or outside opinions. But that's me.

If You need to reach people in Israel, translation of Hebrew - say freely.

 

[Linkiloo]

I want to thank rylah, Coyote, Sixties Fan and Hollie and others for the comments and especially the links they tossed into the discussion. I've written a short version of a white paper for this idea of Palestinian City State Emirates connected to Arab neighbors and Israel with a commerce super-hiway. I'm expanding it into a journal article with the references and concepts from the OP and other "alternate" solutions that reflect the actual Palestinian preference for local autonomy and not a "unified federal type government".

When any of these fruits result in publication -- I'll let you know. Have 3 journals in mind -- but would appreciate other suggestions for the right place to present it.

One thing I've uncovered is the amazing past history of trade in the Holy Land and Levant. I've been fascinated in how this idea is really "Back to the Future". If you search "holy land (or Levant) ancient trade routes" on Youtube or Bing you'll find maps placing all of Israel/Palestine neighbors in the middle of MANY ancient trade corridors. The parallels to this modern concept are just "book length" writing that would just have to be briefly mentioned in a journal length article.

Brilliant. It is great to see some constructive contributions to this topic. One gets tired of the rantings of the same old same olds', unnable to address the real issues. I note you thanked the people who I believe to be the constructive ones.

 

[rylah]

One thing I've uncovered is the amazing past history of trade in the Holy Land and Levant. I've been fascinated in how this idea is really "Back to the Future". If you search "holy land (or Levant) ancient trade routes" on Youtube or Bing you'll find maps placing all of Israel/Palestine neighbors in the middle of MANY ancient trade corridors. The parallels to this modern concept are just "book length" writing that would just have to be briefly mentioned in a journal length article.

Like the Perfume trade route?

 

[P F Tinmore]

How would this differ from bantustans?

 

[rylah]

How would this differ from bantustans?

City states and emirates are independent, and are not based on skin color.
Jews should be allowed to live in the Emirates naturally as well.

It has nothing in common with bantustants except for a small territory per a sovereign, as well because it comes directly from Arab culture and modern practice of the most prosperous and stable middle eastern states.

Would You call Monaco a bantustan?