Scotty's solution to decrease minority crime

[William Joyce]

So if we just get rid of all the black and brown people then crime will no longer be an issue in the US?

Yep.

It's not Asians committing all the crime... in fact, they commit less crime than WHITES. What do you have to say about that?

Really...the cambodians and laotians out here sure do commit alot of crimes.

Yes, true. I should amend to northern Asians like northern Chinese, Koreans and Japanese. The farther south you go, the more jungle-like the environment, and the more like blacks or Hispanics they become.

 

[William Joyce]

easy to spew racist garbage while hiding behind a computer screen, eh?

Yeah, I hear ya. I sure wouldn't want to be exposed as you and then dropped in the middle of Ramallah.

 

[HUGGY]

I wanted to have a discussion on how to reduce minority crime and this guy wants to post a bunch of rap videos. All I wanted to do was discuss a way to make a safer country.

If you are sincere about wanting a safer community then you must grow up intellectualy and stop blaming the victims of laws that were enacted to do exactly what you complain of.

Depending on your response I can elaborate.

 

[dec8ur]

I am white and I want to put forth my problem with African Americans. It is real simple they make up 12.9% of the population Comparisons between whites and African-Americans[/url] Comparisons between whites and African-Americans[/url]) according to this website. Based on current rates of first incarceration, an estimated 28% of black males will enter State or Federal prison during their lifetime, compared to 16% of Hispanic males and 4.4% of white males
Sixty-five percent of state prison inmates belonged to racial or ethnic minorities in 1991, up from 60% in 1986.

At current levels of incarceration newborn black males in this country have a greater than a 1 in 4 chance of going to prison during their lifetimes, while Hispanic males have a 1 in 6 chance, and white males have a 1 in 23 chance of serving time. NCJ 160092

The number of drug trafficking convictions in State courts more than doubled between 1986 and1990. Of persons convicted of drug trafficking in State courts in 1990--85% were male 42% were white, 57% black, and 1% of other races

Minorities commit too much crime in our country. What will we do about this. Are the minorities criminal in nature or can we educate them and put them on the right path?

Minorities , specifically african american males are to blame for our crime problem in the US.

that is a nice argument but let me fill you in on a few facts. according to the census bureau in 2004 http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/race/black/ppl-186/tab1.txt blacks number around 36 million while whites number about 195 million. now according a chart of illicit drug use at Results from the 2007 NSDUH: National Findings, SAMHSA, OAS blacks stand at 9.5% (or about 3.4 million) of their population while whites are at 8.2% (or about 8 million) and yet blacks and whites but in 2005 in state prisons black numbered 113,000 while whites numbered 72,300. Race and Prison | Drug War Facts which according to Bureau of Justice Statistics, Drugs and Crime Facts: Drug Use and Crime drug offenders account for 25 percent of state prisoners. now if we were to have parity which in blacks is about 3 percent in prison populations according to their respective drug use whites would have about between 240,000-300,000 thousand people in prison.

now all that tells me is that their is a sentencing disparity when it comes to the criminal justice system (if you look it up you will find similar discrepancies when it comes to other crimes) and i don't proclaim to be smart enough to solve all of this but i tell you what. you come in here with a plan to solve the problem of white people crime, and when you do i will come in here and tell you how we can solve black crime. till then please keep your thinly disguised racist monologues to yourself

 

[eots]

Let's cut to the chase here.

A large section of the African American community not only commit a disproportionate amount of crime (mostly on each other) but they celebrate it in their music, they have made an art out of it.

Known as Hip Hop.

You don't have to take whiteys word for it, you can take theirs.

whitey owns the big media company's and markets and sells the gangsta rap in favour of more conscientious hip-hip..company's like time Warner decide what gets signed and promoted ...the same company's that are the biggest prevours of pornography

 

[jillian]

easy to spew racist garbage while hiding behind a computer screen, eh?

Yeah, I hear ya. I sure wouldn't want to be exposed as you and then dropped in the middle of Ramallah.

funny...i've been to the west bank and gaza... and had no issues.

i don't think you'd do too well in harlem, though.

maybe that's what you're projecting.... I understand that your virulent anti-semitism and racism confuses you. but then again, i'm not a scrawny guy with small genitalia who feels threatened by everyone else... that would be you.

 

[Scotty]

You and I differ on what the problem is.

You seem to think it's racial.

I think it's economical with a splash of unfairness towards minorities in our criminal justice system.

That's the disconnect.

My shift is over and I'm going home to crash. If you are around tomorrow night maybe we can continue.

BTW, "Obama could be the voice" is hardly a solution let alone a feasible one.

Cool. Nice talking with you.

i can see where his response would be too cogent for you to respond to.

easy to spew racist garbage while hiding behind a computer screen, eh?

You misread, he said he was calling it a night. I was just being courteous. I respected his comments. I listened to him. I think his heart is in the right place as is mine. I am not spewing racist garbage. I was calling out a problem (minority crime is too high) I put forth a plan. Most people around the world agree Obama's speech in Cairo worked. I feel he should attack the gangsta rap / negative black community, attack minority crime. He has a very unique oppurtunity. Now is the time to tackle this issue. People listen to him. He is a shining example that black and minorities in general should follow and respect.

 

[Scotty]

I want to admit some of my mistakes. I believe the title I gave this thread is derisive. My OP is a jumbled mess. I wanted to put forth some stats I got from an out of date website. We all know the stats. Minorities commit crimes at a higher rate than whites. I wished to put forth my solution. I requested others to give me another solution. I wanted to listen to others' solutions. Too many of the replies have been against my request of an open debate, a lot of replies calling me and others racist goes against the spirit of my thread. I understand the fact that my title of my thread may be offensive, for that I sincerely am sorry.

If any mod reads this, rename the title of my thread as "Scotty's solution to decrease minority crime" or "An open debate on American Minority crime"
Thanks.

 

[QUENTIN]

What is your basis for the supposed "fact" that blacks commit more crime? Statistics of who is in jail of course.

That's skewing the results and working backwards towards a conclusion. Black people commit a disproportionate amount of crime? It's commonly accepted, but our basis for it is who ends up in prison, and that's not the same thing. Black and hispanic people are stopped, searched, interrogated, and more closely watched by the authorities than their white counterparts. Subsequently, more of them are caught committing crimes and prosecuted for them. But did they commit more crime, or are their crimes just spotted more because they're already targeted?

If 75% of the time cops pulled over white people they searched their cars and persons looking for drugs, weapons, or any other violations there would be a hell of a lot more white people in jail. Add to that the fact that police and prosecutors have a whole lot of discretion about what to do in the event that they catch someone breaking the law. I have been found with drugs on my person or in my car three times by the police (and much more often than that, if they had considered me suspicious enough to search, they would have found some), not once was I arrested or so much as ticketed. One of the times, the cops didn't even confiscate my fucking stash. I'm a pretty clean cut looking, polite and well-spoken middle class white dude. The cops likely see my crime of possession as minor, "kids will be kids" shit and let me go with a half-hearted verbal warning. But if all you do is change my socio-economic status, or especially my race (and the two are often intertwined), the cops are far more likely to arrest me and add to the statistic that gets misread as me committing more crimes. The discretionary application of the law is even more pronounced in the district attorneys office, where decisions are made about prioritization and equal emphasis is put on the seriousness of the crime and the likelihood of winning the case. Someone who already fits most juries MO of what a criminal looks like that got caught red-handed with an illegal substance and will be assigned a shitty public defender is an easy win, so they're gonna prosecute and look for some jail time to appear they're curbing crime. A white, white collar guy with a family who had a little blow on him but can afford a good lawyer, he's just more likely to be slapped with a fine or tasked with community service. Overcrowded prisons have led tons of prosecutor's offices to work around mandatory minimum sentencing requirements on cases they deem low priority. The discrepancy between who gets a lawyer that will actually defend them really can't be overstated as key to that eventual demographic make up of who winds up locked up.

And yes, racism is a key part of it, but I think an even bigger part is laziness. No different really than the press's laziness in coverage, they know how to present the same familiar narrative, it's been established and gets enough results, so why rock the boat and exert more energy to be more vigilant and accurate? Disproportionately targeting, surveilling, and often harassing minorities has just gotten passed down from one generation of cop to the next as the way things are done. Drug possession is an easy to check crime too that doesn't require much diligence. A corporate criminal is unlikely to carry a slip of paper in his pocket that details his tax evasion, embezzlement, or money laundering ripe for the picking when he's pulled over. The disproportionate focus and harsh sentencing on drug crime, a crime more common among the poor (again, more blacks and hispanics are poor) only exacerbates this issue. Also notice the dramatic increase in prison population when we began America's so-called "War on Drugs" and started putting people in jail for possession and putting them in jail for 5-10 times longer for equal amounts of crack cocaine (used predominately by the poor) than powder cocaine (used predominately by upper and middle classes) despite them being the exact same illicit drug. As a result of this change, mostly in the 1980s, America now has a larger prison population than any other country on the planet, despite being far from the only nation with a considerable minority population. Think about what results in more minorities in jail and it is a whole hell of a lot more than just "they commit more crime."

All that's not to say there isn't likely some broad, general correlation between or increased likelihood of criminal behavior among minorities as compared to whites, young people compared to old, etc (to what extent, we really have no idea). But that's because more of them are poor. Ultimately that's who is more likely to commit crime, not races but classes. Those without resources have a much greater necessity to acquire those resources by any means necessary, including crime. And the way to curb that is not to more heavily patrol all of the poor, regardless of race, but to work to eliminate poverty. Continually targeting young black and hispanic guys for harassment is just continuing the cycle that seems to justify itself, at the most surface level, when more of them wind up in jail and leads to people feeling comfortable dismissing racial profiling as unfounded whining and complaining about how minorities commit more crime.

 

[QUENTIN]

New Jersey internal records document widespread racial profiling of black and Hispanic motorists
By Fred Mazelis

The release of 91,000 pages of internal records by the state of New Jersey reveal that a systematic policy of searching cars driven by blacks or Hispanics has been carried out for at least a decade. The statistics show that minority drivers, making up 13 percent of state motorists, accounted for more than 80 percent of those stopped by state troopers.

The mountain of official records constitutes the most damning evidence of crude official racism, fostered or accepted by top state officials of both the Democratic and Republican parties. The state's chief law enforcement officials knew about racial profiling since at least 1989 but refused to admit it until a report was issued in April 1999.

The official records consist of everything from police training manuals to thousands of pages of individual traffic tickets issued by state troopers. They have been compiled in 185 binders as well as on 15 CD-ROMs, which are being distributed to interested parties at a cost of $1,000.

The state police officially prohibited racial profiling, but according to a 1999 memo from Deputy Attorney General Debra Stone, “racial profiling exists as part of the culture.” Stone reported that veteran troopers functioned as “coaches” in showing new troopers how to carry out racial profiling. “Trooper after trooper has testified that coaches taught them how to profile minorities,” Stone wrote. “The coaches also teach this to minority troopers.”

These practices stretched back more than a decade. A 1987 state police training memo listed the following descriptions to assist police in finding possible drug couriers: Colombian males, Hispanic males, a Hispanic male and a black male together, or a Hispanic male and female.

Among the documents released by the state attorney general's office were numerous bitter complaints from motorists who had been stopped and in many cases singled out for abuse and humiliation. State troopers themselves, if they were off duty and were black or Hispanic, were not immune from being pulled over for “DWB”—driving while black. One such officer, a state police sergeant, wrote that he had been stopped 40 times by state troopers while off duty. “There were times when I was the fourth vehicle in a line of five exceeding the speed limit,” he wrote. “I was the only one stopped. It doesn't take long to realize that you (the minority) are the choice of the day.”

This same officer pointed out that troopers patrolling the New Jersey Turnpike at night often park perpendicular to the roadway with their high beams shining, so they can see the occupants of passing cars. These parking spots were known as “fishing holes,” enabling the police to single out their victims on the basis of race.

Many letters to state authorities complained of illegal searches and abusive treatment. In one case a trooper stopped a motorist, ordered him out of his car, and apparently took $200 from a wallet that the driver had left on the floor of the vehicle.

The massive number of documents were among those demanded by lawyers representing drivers who are suing the state on grounds of racial discrimination. One of these attorneys, William Buckman, said that much of this material was denied when he requested it five years ago. “There seems to be only one reason to withhold all of this: to conceal from the public how high up in the attorney general's office people were aware of the length and the breadth of the problem,” said Buckman. “And the striking thing, even today,” he continued, “is that when you read these documents, you get no sense of urgency, no sense of outrage that people were being harassed because of their race, and it must be stopped no matter what.”

The documents released cover the administrations of three New Jersey governors and seven attorneys general. The current governor, Republican Christine Whitman, feigned outrage when the issue emerged prominently and the longstanding policy began to unravel in April 1998, after three unarmed men were shot by troopers on the highway. She fired the state police superintendent when he declared that racial profiling was understandable because minorities were allegedly responsible for most of the cocaine and marijuana traffic.

Whitman's outrage, however, was hypocritical and false. In 1994, Republican operative Ed Rollins boasted that he had helped secure victory for Whitman in her first race for governor that year by paying off black ministers to depress the turnout of black voters. Just last year, a photo was released to the media of Whitman posing with a broad smile on her face as she carried out her own racial profiling, frisking a young black man while patrolling with cops in the city of Camden in 1996.

As for the Democrats, an August 1993 memo, during the administration of Governor James Florio, quotes then acting Attorney General Fred DeVesa rejecting any changes in the policy of racial profiling of motorists. “If it ain't broke, don't fix it,” DeVesa wrote.

Attention is now also focused on Peter Verniero, who was state attorney general from 1996 to 1998 and was later appointed by Whitman to the State Supreme Court, where he sits today. During confirmation hearings in 1999, Verniero testified that he had not seen statistical evidence of racial profiling until that year. A memo to Verniero dated July 28, 1997, however, includes an audit of a state trooper barracks documenting the stopping of black and Hispanic drivers.

Verniero also swore that he had cooperated with the US Department of Justice in an investigation of the profiling charges. However another memo has now been released, from a meeting on May 20, 1997, which contradicts this claim. The memo contains handwritten notes declaring that before Verniero would sign a consent decree allowing a federal monitor to oversee the practices of the state police department, “they'd have to tie me to a train and drag me along the track.”

Current Attorney General John J. Farmer apparently concluded that release of these documents was inevitable and voluntary disclosure would enable the authorities to engage in a form of damage control. Farmer said he was releasing the records in order to “pay a debt to the past.” He argued that the police practices were effective but at the same time created a social disaster by stirring resentment of the police.

Farmer also stated that the policy stemmed from the war on drugs initiated in the 1980s under the federal Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA). He claimed as well that racial profiling might be legal, even if unwise, since the US Supreme Court and other courts had on some occasions ruled that race could properly be invoked in decisions on police searches.

The short-term consequences of the growing New Jersey scandal include the possible dismissal of 100 or more pending criminal cases arising from traffic stops by the state police. Defendants who have been charged with drug or weapons possession are claiming, with justification, that the evidence was tainted by discriminatory police behavior.

As many as a dozen civil suits against the state police are also pending, filed by motorists who were stopped but not charged with any crime. A class action suit has been brought with the cooperation of the American Civil Liberties Union. A spokesman for the attorney general acknowledged that the state would be looking at the possibility of the dismissal of some criminal cases as well as the settlement of civil suits.

The scandal is part of a pervasive racism which has been encouraged by the law-and-order crackdown of the past two decades. “Operation Pipeline,” initiated by the DEA, undoubtedly encouraged racial profiling as it was used to train more than 25,000 police officers in 48 states.

Continuous campaigns at the state and federal level for new prisons, an end to parole, and increased death sentences and executions have all contributed to an atmosphere in which racist harassment is considered permissible and racist cops are encouraged to vent their prejudices and hatred.

A report released by the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights about six months ago exposed the fallacy of the argument that racial profiling is rational because blacks commit crimes at a higher rate than whites. According to this report, the General Accounting Office of the federal government showed that minorities were far more likely than whites to be searched by customs officials, without any justification at all, even statistically. Black women were nine times more likely to be x-rayed after a frisk in 1997 and 1998, but “were less than half as likely to be found carrying contraband as white women.”

A report from the New York State Attorney General's office found that blacks are twice as likely to be stopped and frisked as whites, even after “correcting” for the demographics of each police precinct and the crime rate by race. As an article earlier this year in the Christian Science Monitor pointed out, racial profiling acts as a “self-fulfilling prophesy,” as blacks and Hispanics are singled out, and therefore arrested, convicted and jailed in larger numbers.

 

[Scotty]

I am white. I do not want to come across as racist b/c I am not racist. You can point out profiling. The police profile minorities, I agree. I hope you can also agree that african americans commit too many crimes, I pray this. I pray, that Obama puts forth a series of speeches to reduce minority crime. The minority population will listen to him. My point, if clinton or either bush approached this issue they would not be as affective as Obama. Let's work together for a more peacefull society. Love You all , Be safe. But most of all I wish all of you Peace.

 

[JBeukema]

I am white. I do not want to come across as racist b/c I am not racist. You can point out profiling. The police profile minorities, I agree.

Profiling can be a good thing. Police profile Whites, too ('minorities is a meaningless word'


That you think 'minorities will 'listen to ' a Black Man, and this is what can lower crime illustrates that tyou're part of the problem

 

[Scotty]

I wanted to make another statement. Martin Luther King Jr spoke about equality. I respect the great doctor. He wanted equality for all. All people. Here is my point. Even he would agree there is too much african american crime. Let's find a way to reduce it. I suggested Obama put forth a series of speeches to condemn crime among blacks.

I want to hear from anyone else.
How to reduce minority crime.
Put forth solutions.

SOLUTIONS TO REDUCE MINORITY CRIME, EXPLAIN, NO EXCUSES

 

[Scotty]

I am white. I do not want to come across as racist b/c I am not racist. You can point out profiling. The police profile minorities, I agree.

Profiling can be a good thing. Police profile Whites, too ('minorities is a meaningless word'


That you think 'minorities will 'listen to ' a Black Man, and this is what can lower crime illustrates that tyou're part of the problem

No ,they will listen to him b/c they voted for him in overwhelming numbers.

 

[JBeukema]

because of his Negroid blood

 

[Scotty]

Negative, I believe in free will. They are not predestined by their blood. It is a personal choice. We need to promote religion, respect and love for all. Do not believe the misconception of black=criminal. I don't believe that. I believe God gave us free will. Free will for good or evil.

 

[JBeukema]

Negative, I believe in free will. They are not predestined by their blood

Now you're arguing against something noone ever said. Your dishonesty is astounding

. We need to promote religion, respect and love for all.

non sequitur ramblings

 

[Scotty]

because of his Negroid blood

I'm sorry I read this and was lead to believe you said they commit crime based on blood.

My friend, tell me how to reduce minority crime?


How to reduce minority crime?
My solution , the President puts forth a propoganda campaign based on truth, He can do it. I promise.

 

[jgbkab]

because of his Negroid blood

I'm sorry I read this and was lead to believe you said they commit crime based on blood.

My friend, tell me how to reduce minority crime?


How to reduce minority crime?
My solution , the President puts forth a propoganda campaign based on truth, He can do it. I promise.

You have to forgive JBukkake, he is of the variety that thinks blacks are inferior to whites. Now as to Obama making a series of speeches, it would never work. Speeches make you feel good for the moment and usually have no lasting affect. When you're in school and hear the "I have a dream" speech, then you look around and see black and white kids in your class, it has a lot less effect on you as it would to my parents that actually lived through segregation.

There is no magic potion to reduce minority crime and there really is no desire for law enforcement as a whole to try. Those minority arrests bring in Federal dollars. The solution is rolling up our sleeves. What we're doing now is not working and people want to write it off as if minorities are inherently lazy criminals. What people don't understand is why minorities turn to crime. There were things that I saw growing up that most people could not imagine. I never had to live in poverty, but many people around me did. For instance, I knew a kid named Ooh. We called him Ooh because he was deaf and when you asked him his name, that was his answer. Everybody in the neighborhood knew Ooh because he stood at the corner store everyday asking for a quaa (quarter). Being a naive child, I always thought he would ask for quarters because he wanted to get candy or drinks from the store so I would never give him money. It was not until one day that I was in the Laundromat and I overheard his mother talking to him did I realize that not everyone had it as good as I did. His mother told him that she didn’t have a dollar to give him for food and that he would have to go beg to eat or starve. Ooh eventually grew up to be a mid-level dope dealer and was in and out of jail.

There were plenty of examples like this and I do realize why some minority children grow up to be criminals. I’ve known kids that I grew up with that had to soak clothes in the bathtub because they couldn’t afford detergent and went to school stinking. Some that didn’t have utilities for months at a time. I finally decided to help any way that I could. I just want to make a difference in at least one person’s life. I’ve seen many minority women come from these situations and make it just fine. My guess is because most of them are less threatening. However, it’s not the same for minority men. Most people look at them like they’re going to rob them. They don’t want to give them a chance because of the negative stereotypes associated with them or because of their culture. Having committed a crime in the past doesn’t mean that you’re a lifelong criminal.

Many (not all) minority men and women want to be given a chance to prove themselves. How can you expect a child that goes home to no electricity and nothing to eat to not turn to a life of crime? How can you expect a mother working two jobs at minimum wage or both parents working for low wages to make sure their children don’t turn to a life of crime? There is a problem with minority crime levels but solving these problems will take more than just the efforts of the minority community or the President. Minorities aren’t the only people getting robbed and killed.

 

[editec]

You want a safer country?

Try working for a society that is more just than this one is.

We've got more people in prison that any other nation on earth and yet crime motivated by greed is still rampant.

You want statistics?

Check out the correleation between entrenched poverty and crime.

They're extremely telling.

Poverty and social injustice are the mother and fathers of crime, folks.

And if social injustice and poverty manifest unequally in the races (as they unquestionably do in America) then naturally the crime stats are going to reflect that, too.