Punishment for Abortion?

[Cecilie1200]

No it's not, it 's a simple question.

Assuming abortion was made illegal, what should the punishment be?

Yeah, that's a "simple question". "Assuming that something happened that virtually no one is advocating, what should we make the punishment which is only advocated and insisted upon by people who support abortion and use it as a debate bludgeon?"

Can you say, "Pathetic strawman"?

Actually.. If you remember.. A number of states.. S. Dakota to name one.. Tried to out right ban abortion.. Or make it illegal in that state.. So it is something that the pro-life crowed wants.. I am only asking that if it gets what it wants.. What would the punishment be for violating that law?

Actually, I DON'T remember that . . . because it didn't happen. This is just part and parcel of your whole leftist, fearmongering lie-to-obscure-the-issues tactic begun in your bullshit OP, and brilliantly illustrates what I said about you: you're too chickenshit to debate the issues for real, so you try to debate issues you invented.

South Dakota tried to limit legal abortions to the instances of rape, incest, or danger to the life of the mother . . . you know, the hard cases YOU poltroons keep dishonestly hiding behind by insisting that we have to have completely unfettered access to millions of abortions every year in order to protect.

So if you find it so distasteful that the pro-life crowd wants to restrict abortion except for those cases that you all swear up, down, and sideways that you're just trying to protect, why the flaming hell do you keep screeching about them?

If you want to know what punishment they would have offered for violating that law, why don't you try looking it up at the same time that you actually research your own bloody post and get your facts straight?

The only straw man arguement here is anyone that avoids the question and attacks me or the question itself..

But let's assume for a moment that I don't know what you are advocating?? So?? Educate me?? What is the pro-life crowd advocating?? Do you not want abortion made illegal?? If not then what then??

As for debating the issue itself?? You would lose on all fronts.. Your response here shows that.. It is obvious that you can't follow your views to their conclusion.. While I may not agree with Lone_Star.. He at least can admit where he stands instead of avoiding the question.. That takes courage and I respect that.. [/QUOTE]

 

[Cecilie1200]

"And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide.
"But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. Exodus 21:22-24

Seems to me the writer feels a woman's life is more important than a fetus.

And when we are suddenly, miraculously transported back to early Biblical times, that might be relevant. Meanwhile, I note that Exodus never included any laws allowing women to simply rid themselves of their unborn children as though they were bulimic and voiding a big lunch, so possibly you could tell me why you think Biblical law supports unfettered abortion.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Can the fetus live outside of the mother at 22 days old? If not, the fetus is a parasite living off the mother's body, nothing more. How does a parasite have the right to anything? What about the woman's rights? Why do the rights of the woman never enter into the Republican's mind?

So...if I got this straight, you're for saving parasites, but you're also for killing those who would kill the parasites...

You got it all wrong, YOU are a parasite that obviously doesn't value human life. I pity your dumbass.

That is so Christian of you.

You are for killing. You said as much above. Do you read what you post?

You're on this board supporting abortion, asshat. If I were you, I wouldn't start pointing fingers at anyone else for being "for killing". I'd say you're about a million deaths a year ahead of us on that scoreboard.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'd just like to know why Republicans think they have rights to a woman's body. If we males had to give birth I highly doubt abortion would even be an issue.

First of all, many of our laws involve restricting what one can do with one's body, so I'd like to know where leftists got the odd notion that anyone is or has ever been entitled to complete autonomy in regards to "my own body". Second of all, abortion isn't about the woman's body at all, as leftists very well know, or would if they had a knowledge of biology beyond the second grade level. It's about the body of someone else entirely, ie. the baby, and the right to live shouldn't be like real estate: all about location, location, location.

Glad to know that you somehow think males are less capable of compassion for babies or objective morality, though.

It IS about the woman's body because that is where the parasite is gestating. And it will remain a parasite until it can live outside of the woman's body without feeding off of the woman. I love how all you Republicans think you are the be all end all when it comes to this issue. If you do not want/do not need to have an abortion, don't have one. But to think for one moment you can tell me what I can do with my body is highly arrogant and, thankfully, your fight to overturn Roe v Wade will never be won.

I love how you half-educated leftists think YOU are the be-all, end-all of this issue, despite knowing next to nothing about how the human body works.

If I don't want to kill another human being, I won't. And if I want to tell YOU not to kill another human being, I most certainly will. And for you to think that society DOESN'T have the right to tell you that you can't kill another human being isn't the height of arrogance, it's the height of puerile naivete.

I don't give a damn what you do with your body. I care about the baby's body. If I could keep the baby and throw your stupid ass out with the bathwater, it would be a lot easier. But again, location and juvenile shouting of "parasite!" doesn't make the baby any less alive or any less a separate, distinct person. If location were all it took to invalidate someone's right to live, the entire population of Democrat National Headquarters would be in serious trouble.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I'd just like to know why Republicans think they have rights to a woman's body. If we males had to give birth I highly doubt abortion would even be an issue.

First of all, many of our laws involve restricting what one can do with one's body, so I'd like to know where leftists got the odd notion that anyone is or has ever been entitled to complete autonomy in regards to "my own body". Second of all, abortion isn't about the woman's body at all, as leftists very well know, or would if they had a knowledge of biology beyond the second grade level. It's about the body of someone else entirely, ie. the baby, and the right to live shouldn't be like real estate: all about location, location, location.

Glad to know that you somehow think males are less capable of compassion for babies or objective morality, though.

It IS about the woman's body because that is where the parasite is gestating. And it will remain a parasite until it can live outside of the woman's body without feeding off of the woman. I love how all you Republicans think you are the be all end all when it comes to this issue. If you do not want/do not need to have an abortion, don't have one. But to think for one moment you can tell me what I can do with my body is highly arrogant and, thankfully, your fight to overturn Roe v Wade will never be won.

What grows inside a woman's body when she is pregnant is human life. When she gets an abortion she destroys this human life. You can duck and dodge and call it a 'parasite' . . . can you deny that it is human? Can you deny that it is alive? You want to support the destruction of this innocent human life, that's your choice. But stop being such a coward and call a spade a spade. Abortion destroys human life.

 

[AllieBaba]

You got it all wrong, YOU are a parasite that obviously doesn't value human life. I pity your dumbass.

That is so Christian of you.

You are for killing. You said as much above. Do you read what you post?

Who said I was a Christian? Oh and yes I'm all for putting those that are guilty of murder to death. For the record the Old Testament law commanded the death penalty for various acts: murder (Exodus 21:12), kidnapping (Exodus 21:16), bestiality (Exodus 22:19), adultery (Leviticus 20:10), homosexuality (Leviticus 20:13), being a false prophet (Deuteronomy 13:5), prostitution and rape (Deuteronomy 22:4), and several other crimes. However, God often showed mercy when the death penalty was due. David committed adultery and murder, yet God did not demand his life be taken (2 Samuel 11:1-5, 14-17; 2 Samuel 12:13). Ultimately, every sin we commit should result in the death penalty because the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). Thankfully, God demonstrates His love for us in not condemning us (Romans 5:8).

When the Pharisees brought a woman who was caught in the act of adultery to Jesus and asked Him if she should be stoned, Jesus replied, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her” (John 8:7). This should not be used to indicate that Jesus rejected capital punishment in all instances. Jesus was simply exposing the hypocrisy of the Pharisees. The Pharisees wanted to trick Jesus into breaking the Old Testament law; they did not truly care about the woman being stoned (where was the man who was caught in adultery?) God is the One who instituted capital punishment: “Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God He made man” (Genesis 9:6). Jesus would support capital punishment in some instances. Jesus also demonstrated grace when capital punishment was due (John 8:1-11). The apostle Paul definitely recognized the power of the government to institute capital punishment where appropriate (Romans 13:1-7).

How should a Christian view the death penalty? First, we must remember that God has instituted capital punishment in His Word; therefore, it would be presumptuous of us to think that we could institute a higher standard. God has the highest standard of any being; He is perfect. This standard applies not only to us but to Himself. Therefore, He loves to an infinite degree, and He has mercy to an infinite degree. We also see that He has wrath to an infinite degree, and it is all maintained in a perfect balance.

Second, we must recognize that God has given government the authority to determine when capital punishment is due (Genesis 9:6; Romans 13:1-7). It is unbiblical to claim that God opposes the death penalty in all instances. Christians should never rejoice when the death penalty is employed, but at the same time, Christians should not fight against the government’s right to execute the perpetrators of the most evil of crimes.

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. (Roman13:1)

One of the most incredible things Christ did was submit himself to the governing authorities.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

"And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide.
"But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. Exodus 21:22-24

Seems to me the writer feels a woman's life is more important than a fetus.

You seem to be ignoring this verse, Lonestar.

The point your missing here is the woman isn't willingly allowing her unborn child to be harmed. And another point your missing is the fact that God recognizes what you call a "parasite" as "a woman with child". It also must be noted that "miscarriage" is not a word in the hebrew language. The passage becomes immediately clear when the Hebrew words are translated in their normal, conventional way:

“And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that the child comes forth, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life....”

 

[AllieBaba]

the child comes forth, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life....”

LIFE FOR LIFE. They're talking about the CHILD, not the mother.

 

[bodecea]

THIS retarded straw man argument again. Just another indication how terrified leftists are of debating any topic fairly and reasonably.

"Rightwingers want to make abortion illegal!!! That must mean they want to put women in prison!!! If they say that's not what they want, then they're HYPOCRITES!!!" Please note that it always involves multiple punctuation marks, which always indicates a diseased mind.

If you're REALLY curious about "rightwingers'" thoughts and positions on abortion, Majik - something I highly doubt, because real curiousity would require an open, thinking mind - why don't you try asking us what they are, instead of just asking narrow, trick questions? "When did you stop beating your wife?" seems to be the extent that your ilk can pretend to examine anything, though.

That's what Lonestar_Logic wants...I asked him.

Really? Do you even know who Lonestar_Logic is in real life, much less what qualifies him to represent all of the right wing, or even all of the mainstream pro-life movement? No? Then this is no answer, particularly when I wasn't addressing you in the first place.

I asked him...he answered. Quite clearly. Now, if you want to call him a liar, that's between you and him....but you did state that we need to ask...I did. Sorry your little complaint didn't work in my case.

 

[bodecea]

THIS retarded straw man argument again. Just another indication how terrified leftists are of debating any topic fairly and reasonably.

"Rightwingers want to make abortion illegal!!! That must mean they want to put women in prison!!! If they say that's not what they want, then they're HYPOCRITES!!!" Please note that it always involves multiple punctuation marks, which always indicates a diseased mind.

If you're REALLY curious about "rightwingers'" thoughts and positions on abortion, Majik - something I highly doubt, because real curiousity would require an open, thinking mind - why don't you try asking us what they are, instead of just asking narrow, trick questions? "When did you stop beating your wife?" seems to be the extent that your ilk can pretend to examine anything, though.

Sunni Man wants to put women in prison. I asked him.

Please see my last response to your previous attempt to waste my time with this bullshit line.

Thanks for proving that you chickenshits are all about desperately avoiding a real debate, though.

You said we need to ask. I did. Sunni Man gave me his answer. You don't like that your suggestion blew up in your face....twice on this very thread.

 

[Dr Grump]

The OP is based on a situation that will not happen. So the 'debate' is mute. It means nothing. It is, in fact, just an opening for whining lefties to rant at whining righties about something that won't actually happen. Ergo, it is meaningless.

And, I'm not giving you - or anyone else - confidential information. The debate forum that I am a member of is an academic forum for members only. They wouldn't tolerate most of the idiots that rant here. I would think you (as an individual, not a group) would have difficulty making up your mind about what to eat, yet alone any kind of proper debate.

In closing, I thought the neg rep was just hysterical!! Oh noooooo! A neg rep! What to do? What to do? I lost seconds of time worrying about that.

If it is meaningless
1) Why put your oar in other than to flame
2) Isn't debate about what might or might not happen?
3) Using your criteria, not only should we not start the majority of threads, but I'd suggest the vast majority of YOUR posts would not have made in the first place (shrug)..


Well, if you are small example of who debates there, methinks you over rate yourself. If I was to rate thoughtful, evocative, 'academic', intelligent and interesting debate as related to folk on this board, you wouldn't make the Top 40. So I doubt your board is all it is cracked up to be....

It also sound elitist, something I thought the right were always accusing the left of.. And As I said, why waste your time here...(shrug)

You lost no seconds, yet you post it on here and leave a message at my User CP. Me, I couldn't give two fucks about rep either to be honest. I rarely hand it out and rarely get it either...

 

[Lonestar_logic]

The OP is based on a situation that will not happen. So the 'debate' is mute. It means nothing. It is, in fact, just an opening for whining lefties to rant at whining righties about something that won't actually happen. Ergo, it is meaningless.

And, I'm not giving you - or anyone else - confidential information. The debate forum that I am a member of is an academic forum for members only. They wouldn't tolerate most of the idiots that rant here. I would think you (as an individual, not a group) would have difficulty making up your mind about what to eat, yet alone any kind of proper debate.

In closing, I thought the neg rep was just hysterical!! Oh noooooo! A neg rep! What to do? What to do? I lost seconds of time worrying about that.

If it is meaningless
1) Why put your oar in other than to flame
2) Isn't debate about what might or might not happen?
3) Using your criteria, not only should we not start the majority of threads, but I'd suggest the vast majority of YOUR posts would not have made in the first place (shrug)..


Well, if you are small example of who debates there, methinks you over rate yourself. If I was to rate thoughtful, evocative, 'academic', intelligent and interesting debate as related to folk on this board, you wouldn't make the Top 40. So I doubt your board is all it is cracked up to be....

It also sound elitist, something I thought the right were always accusing the left of.. And As I said, why waste your time here...(shrug)

You lost no seconds, yet you post it on here and leave a message at my User CP. Me, I couldn't give two fucks about rep either to be honest. I rarely hand it out and rarely get it either...

Spoken like a true elitist.

 

[Dr Grump]

The OP is based on a situation that will not happen. So the 'debate' is mute. It means nothing. It is, in fact, just an opening for whining lefties to rant at whining righties about something that won't actually happen. Ergo, it is meaningless.

And, I'm not giving you - or anyone else - confidential information. The debate forum that I am a member of is an academic forum for members only. They wouldn't tolerate most of the idiots that rant here. I would think you (as an individual, not a group) would have difficulty making up your mind about what to eat, yet alone any kind of proper debate.

In closing, I thought the neg rep was just hysterical!! Oh noooooo! A neg rep! What to do? What to do? I lost seconds of time worrying about that.

If it is meaningless
1) Why put your oar in other than to flame
2) Isn't debate about what might or might not happen?
3) Using your criteria, not only should we not start the majority of threads, but I'd suggest the vast majority of YOUR posts would not have made in the first place (shrug)..


Well, if you are small example of who debates there, methinks you over rate yourself. If I was to rate thoughtful, evocative, 'academic', intelligent and interesting debate as related to folk on this board, you wouldn't make the Top 40. So I doubt your board is all it is cracked up to be....

It also sound elitist, something I thought the right were always accusing the left of.. And As I said, why waste your time here...(shrug)

You lost no seconds, yet you post it on here and leave a message at my User CP. Me, I couldn't give two fucks about rep either to be honest. I rarely hand it out and rarely get it either...

Spoken like a true elitist.

Where have I claimed not to be...

 

[Comics]

You got it all wrong, YOU are a parasite that obviously doesn't value human life. I pity your dumbass.

That is so Christian of you.

You are for killing. You said as much above. Do you read what you post?

You're on this board supporting abortion, asshat. If I were you, I wouldn't start pointing fingers at anyone else for being "for killing". I'd say you're about a million deaths a year ahead of us on that scoreboard.

Yes, I am for the unabashed killing of fetuses. That is exactly what my posts are showing. It couldn't be that I'm for letting people decide for themselves, could it? Oh, I'm sorry, I'm talking to a Republican. Your idea of personal freedom is limited to members of your own party. Parish the thought that people be allowed to decide for themselves.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

If it is meaningless
1) Why put your oar in other than to flame
2) Isn't debate about what might or might not happen?
3) Using your criteria, not only should we not start the majority of threads, but I'd suggest the vast majority of YOUR posts would not have made in the first place (shrug)..


Well, if you are small example of who debates there, methinks you over rate yourself. If I was to rate thoughtful, evocative, 'academic', intelligent and interesting debate as related to folk on this board, you wouldn't make the Top 40. So I doubt your board is all it is cracked up to be....

It also sound elitist, something I thought the right were always accusing the left of.. And As I said, why waste your time here...(shrug)

You lost no seconds, yet you post it on here and leave a message at my User CP. Me, I couldn't give two fucks about rep either to be honest. I rarely hand it out and rarely get it either...

Spoken like a true elitist.

Where have I claimed not to be...

Is that a question or a statement?

You elitist are a stupid lot. Do you understand the purpose of punctuation marks?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

That is so Christian of you.

You are for killing. You said as much above. Do you read what you post?

You're on this board supporting abortion, asshat. If I were you, I wouldn't start pointing fingers at anyone else for being "for killing". I'd say you're about a million deaths a year ahead of us on that scoreboard.

Yes, I am for the unabashed killing of fetuses. That is exactly what my posts are showing. It couldn't be that I'm for letting people decide for themselves, could it? Oh, I'm sorry, I'm talking to a Republican. Your idea of personal freedom is limited to members of your own party. Parish the thought that people be allowed to decide for themselves.

Spoken like a true coward.

 

[Comics]

Spoken like a true elitist.

Where have I claimed not to be...

Is that a question or a statement?

You elitist are a stupid lot. Do you understand the purpose for punctuation marks?

Do you understand that no matter how much you wish it were so you have no control over anyone but yourself?

And when you can decipher the correct usage of "your" and "you're" then you can start talking punctuation and be taken seriously...

 

[Comics]

You're on this board supporting abortion, asshat. If I were you, I wouldn't start pointing fingers at anyone else for being "for killing". I'd say you're about a million deaths a year ahead of us on that scoreboard.

Yes, I am for the unabashed killing of fetuses. That is exactly what my posts are showing. It couldn't be that I'm for letting people decide for themselves, could it? Oh, I'm sorry, I'm talking to a Republican. Your idea of personal freedom is limited to members of your own party. Parish the thought that people be allowed to decide for themselves.

Spoken like a true coward.

Oh, I am truly heartbroken that a rightwingNUT thinks I'm a coward.

 

[Dr Grump]

Spoken like a true elitist.

Where have I claimed not to be...

Is that a question or a statement?

You elitist are a stupid lot. Do you understand the purpose of punctuation marks?

A statement..

I'd check your own grammar before spouting off....

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Where have I claimed not to be...

Is that a question or a statement?

You elitist are a stupid lot. Do you understand the purpose for punctuation marks?

Do you understand that no matter how much you wish it were so you have no control over anyone but yourself?

And when you can decipher the correct usage of "your" and "you're" then you can start talking punctuation and be taken seriously...

Unlike you I don't wish anything of the sort. Abortion is murder and all those that participate in it should be held accountable, that is my opinion. You don't value human life and you have said as much, I place you on the level of Wayne Williams, Dean Corll , John Wayne Gacy , Gary Ridgeway , Moses Sithole , Gerald Stano , Andrei Chikatilo, Bruno Ludke, Henry Lee Lucas and Pedro Alonso Lopez.