No One Has a Right to Health Care

[OldLady]

We need single payer just like 90% of the rest of the first world. The op has an opinion and he thinks everyone should live a tough and hard life as people did in the 18th century, but we don't have too. We the people can make things better for ourselfs and this is why we must elect clinton or sanders!

STUPID RETARD

What Soviet Medicine Teaches Us

In 1918, the Soviet Union became the first country to promise universal "cradle-to-grave" healthcare coverage, to be accomplished through the complete socialization of medicine. The "right to health" became a "constitutional right" of Soviet citizens.

The proclaimed advantages of this system were that it would "reduce costs" and eliminate the "waste" that stemmed from "unnecessary duplication and parallelism" — i.e., competition.

These goals were similar to the ones declared by Mr. Obama and Ms. Pelosi — attractive and humane goals of universal coverage and low costs. What's not to like?

The system had many decades to work, but widespread apathy and low quality of work paralyzed the healthcare system. In the depths of the socialist experiment, healthcare institutions in Russia were at least a hundred years behind the average US level. Moreover, the filth, odors, cats roaming the halls, drunken medical personnel, and absence of soap and cleaning supplies added to an overall impression of hopelessness and frustration that paralyzed the system. According to official Russian estimates, 78 percent of all AIDS victims in Russia contracted the virus through dirty needles or HIV-tainted blood in the state-run hospitals.

Irresponsibility, expressed by the popular Russian saying "They pretend they are paying us and we pretend we are working," resulted in appalling quality of service, widespread corruption, and extensive loss of life. My friend, a famous neurosurgeon in today's Russia, received a monthly salary of 150 rubles — one-third of the average bus driver's salary.

In order to receive minimal attention by doctors and nursing personnel, patients had to pay bribes. I even witnessed a case of a "nonpaying" patient who died trying to reach a lavatory at the end of the long corridor after brain surgery. Anesthesia was usually "not available" for abortions or minor ear, nose, throat, and skin surgeries. This was used as a means of extortion by unscrupulous medical bureaucrats.

We're not Russia and you should take a pill. You're gonna give yourself high blood pressure.

 

[bendog]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

An E.R. charges a thousand dollars for a visit, where people with pneumonia, gastroenteritis, panic attacks, etc. go when a doctor's visit would be vastly less expensive, if they had the insurance coverage. Who's really paying?

Since more people have insurance now, those costs are dropping. Again, plenty of information about that in the ObamaCare forum (see Greenbeard's posts/threads in particular).

As for why people go to the ER for those things, they very often become critical after the doctor's gone home for the day; the ER is open 24/7. If you're struggling to breathe on a Friday evening because of pneumonia or asthma, it's a little inconvenient to wait until Monday morning.

There are walk-in clinics in some places, but they too keep "business hours." When the walk-in clinic and your doctor's office are closed, who ya gonna call?

I agree. I was replying to ZackB's ridiculous statement that publicly funded hospitals have to treat you. There are a lot of uninsured people using the ER for their medical complaints because they can't afford a doctor's visit. And that ends up costing tax payers a lot more.

Obamacare isn't my choice, but there is money to train more primary care docs and PAs

 

[Arianrhod]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

An E.R. charges a thousand dollars for a visit, where people with pneumonia, gastroenteritis, panic attacks, etc. go when a doctor's visit would be vastly less expensive, if they had the insurance coverage. Who's really paying?

Since more people have insurance now, those costs are dropping. Again, plenty of information about that in the ObamaCare forum (see Greenbeard's posts/threads in particular).

As for why people go to the ER for those things, they very often become critical after the doctor's gone home for the day; the ER is open 24/7. If you're struggling to breathe on a Friday evening because of pneumonia or asthma, it's a little inconvenient to wait until Monday morning.

There are walk-in clinics in some places, but they too keep "business hours." When the walk-in clinic and your doctor's office are closed, who ya gonna call?

I agree. I was replying to ZackB's ridiculous statement that publicly funded hospitals have to treat you. There are a lot of uninsured people using the ER for their medical complaints because they can't afford a doctor's visit. And that ends up costing tax payers a lot more.

I appreciate that (there are a lot of ridiculous statements being SHOUTED in this thread, starting with the OP), but the fact is that hospitals are seeing fewer expenses with regard to unpaid ER bills since passage of the PPACA. It's not perfect, but it's improving.

 

[bendog]

jmo but I think its a valid political discussion about whether Bernie is correctly saying there's some "right," and their ain't.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

if there is a right to healthcare, food, housing, transportation etc.. simply because you were born, and that care comes at the expense of others, then I say we have a right to tell you if you are allowed to have children or not. very simple.

So how does that work ? You advocate abortion but the child has already been born. Mad.

exactly where in your warped mind did that come from? seriously.
F-ing liberals, no idea how process a simple thought.
its why so many of them are opting for total government control of their lives. So much easier to live when someone is telling you what to do 24 hours a day.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

An E.R. charges a thousand dollars for a visit, where people with pneumonia, gastroenteritis, panic attacks, etc. go when a doctor's visit would be vastly less expensive, if they had the insurance coverage. Who's really paying?

Since more people have insurance now, those costs are dropping. Again, plenty of information about that in the ObamaCare forum (see Greenbeard's posts/threads in particular).

As for why people go to the ER for those things, they very often become critical after the doctor's gone home for the day; the ER is open 24/7. If you're struggling to breathe on a Friday evening because of pneumonia or asthma, it's a little inconvenient to wait until Monday morning.

There are walk-in clinics in some places, but they too keep "business hours." When the walk-in clinic and your doctor's office are closed, who ya gonna call?

I agree. I was replying to ZackB's ridiculous statement that publicly funded hospitals have to treat you. There are a lot of uninsured people using the ER for their medical complaints because they can't afford a doctor's visit. And that ends up costing tax payers a lot more.

I appreciate that (there are a lot of ridiculous statements being SHOUTED in this thread, starting with the OP), but the fact is that hospitals are seeing fewer expenses with regard to unpaid ER bills since passage of the PPACA. It's not perfect, but it's improving.

I wonder if their savings is greater or less than the increased cost of insurance that the responsible people pay.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

It's those damn veterans lazing about in hospitals that started this welfare thing. Then to add insult, Washington, that's George, wanted to give some of the officers pensions. Add to that some of the states began taking care of their indigent even to taking care some of the younger kids that couldn't work. Of course, the kids that could work were rented out to employers during the day. A nation that begins like that is on its way to welfare heaven.

And smoking. If these selfish fcks would just start smoking again, they'd die, and there'd be more healthcare for me! (-:

But other people are effected by their choices through second hand smoke and billions in healthcare cost that aint paid back.

As are people that eat too much, don't eat healthy, don't exercise, don't take care of their teeth, and on and on and on.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

if there is a right to healthcare, food, housing, transportation etc.. simply because you were born, and that care comes at the expense of others, then I say we have a right to tell you if you are allowed to have children or not. very simple.

So how does that work ? You advocate abortion but the child has already been born. Mad.

exactly where in your warped mind did that come from? seriously.
F-ing liberals, no idea how process a simple thought.
its why so many of them are opting for total government control of their lives. So much easier to live when someone is telling you what to do 24 hours a day.

Here you go.

I say we have a right to tell you if you are allowed to have children or not. very simple.

I cant read it as anything other than a pro abortion shout. Perhaps you could explain what you would do to carry through this libertarian plan ?

 

[Maryland Patriot]

if there is a right to healthcare, food, housing, transportation etc.. simply because you were born, and that care comes at the expense of others, then I say we have a right to tell you if you are allowed to have children or not. very simple.

So how does that work ? You advocate abortion but the child has already been born. Mad.

exactly where in your warped mind did that come from? seriously.
F-ing liberals, no idea how process a simple thought.
its why so many of them are opting for total government control of their lives. So much easier to live when someone is telling you what to do 24 hours a day.

Here you go.

I say we have a right to tell you if you are allowed to have children or not. very simple.

I cant read it as anything other than a pro abortion shout. Perhaps you could explain what you would do to carry through this libertarian plan ?

and as would be expected, a liberal only sees abortion as the only option to not having kids.
Keep going, you are really showing your true colors.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

An E.R. charges a thousand dollars for a visit, where people with pneumonia, gastroenteritis, panic attacks, etc. go when a doctor's visit would be vastly less expensive, if they had the insurance coverage. Who's really paying?

Since more people have insurance now, those costs are dropping. Again, plenty of information about that in the ObamaCare forum (see Greenbeard's posts/threads in particular).

As for why people go to the ER for those things, they very often become critical after the doctor's gone home for the day; the ER is open 24/7. If you're struggling to breathe on a Friday evening because of pneumonia or asthma, it's a little inconvenient to wait until Monday morning.

There are walk-in clinics in some places, but they too keep "business hours." When the walk-in clinic and your doctor's office are closed, who ya gonna call?

I agree. I was replying to ZackB's ridiculous statement that publicly funded hospitals have to treat you. There are a lot of uninsured people using the ER for their medical complaints because they can't afford a doctor's visit. And that ends up costing tax payers a lot more.

I appreciate that (there are a lot of ridiculous statements being SHOUTED in this thread, starting with the OP), but the fact is that hospitals are seeing fewer expenses with regard to unpaid ER bills since passage of the PPACA. It's not perfect, but it's improving.

I wonder if their savings is greater or less than the increased cost of insurance that the responsible people pay.

Doubtful.. the average Joe will continue to foot the bill for the same folks. All the ACA is doing is forcing onerous reporting requirements on employers, forcing you to buy insurance and then taking the information reported and using it as a pretext to tax you on your benefits.

It's all a fucking scam.. we see it with excess life insurance, personal use of vehicles and on and on and on. These people will not be happy until they have bled the Average Joe dry,

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

if there is a right to healthcare, food, housing, transportation etc.. simply because you were born, and that care comes at the expense of others, then I say we have a right to tell you if you are allowed to have children or not. very simple.

So how does that work ? You advocate abortion but the child has already been born. Mad.

exactly where in your warped mind did that come from? seriously.
F-ing liberals, no idea how process a simple thought.
its why so many of them are opting for total government control of their lives. So much easier to live when someone is telling you what to do 24 hours a day.

Here you go.

I say we have a right to tell you if you are allowed to have children or not. very simple.

I cant read it as anything other than a pro abortion shout. Perhaps you could explain what you would do to carry through this libertarian plan ?

and as would be expected, a liberal only sees abortion as the only option to not having kids.
Keep going, you are really showing your true colors.

I guess those of us who put a rubber n it or used BC are some special MOFO's that pulled of the impossible!

 

[Maryland Patriot]

An E.R. charges a thousand dollars for a visit, where people with pneumonia, gastroenteritis, panic attacks, etc. go when a doctor's visit would be vastly less expensive, if they had the insurance coverage. Who's really paying?

Since more people have insurance now, those costs are dropping. Again, plenty of information about that in the ObamaCare forum (see Greenbeard's posts/threads in particular).

As for why people go to the ER for those things, they very often become critical after the doctor's gone home for the day; the ER is open 24/7. If you're struggling to breathe on a Friday evening because of pneumonia or asthma, it's a little inconvenient to wait until Monday morning.

There are walk-in clinics in some places, but they too keep "business hours." When the walk-in clinic and your doctor's office are closed, who ya gonna call?

I agree. I was replying to ZackB's ridiculous statement that publicly funded hospitals have to treat you. There are a lot of uninsured people using the ER for their medical complaints because they can't afford a doctor's visit. And that ends up costing tax payers a lot more.

I appreciate that (there are a lot of ridiculous statements being SHOUTED in this thread, starting with the OP), but the fact is that hospitals are seeing fewer expenses with regard to unpaid ER bills since passage of the PPACA. It's not perfect, but it's improving.

I wonder if their savings is greater or less than the increased cost of insurance that the responsible people pay.

Doubtful.. the average Joe will continue to foot the bill for the same folks. All the ACA is doing is forcing onerous reporting requirements on employers, forcing you to buy insurance and then taking the information reported and using it as a pretext to tax you on your benefits.

It's all a fucking scam.. we see it with excess life insurance, personal use of vehicles and on and on and on. These people will not be happy until they have bled the Average Joe dry,

it does seem as if the only people not being forced to pay for it are those that don't have it.

 

[Agit8r]

"Every one, as he is bound to preserve himself, and not to quit his station willfully, so by the like reason, when his own preservation comes not in competition, ought he, as much as he can, to preserve the rest of mankind"
-- John Locke; from Second Treatise on Civil Government, Chapter II

 

[Arianrhod]

if there is a right to healthcare, food, housing, transportation etc.. simply because you were born, and that care comes at the expense of others, then I say we have a right to tell you if you are allowed to have children or not. very simple.

So how does that work ? You advocate abortion but the child has already been born. Mad.

exactly where in your warped mind did that come from? seriously.

Because it's patently obvious.

"SAVE THE FETUSESSS!!!!! END MEDICAID, END OBAMACARE, NO ONE'S ENTITLED TO HEALTH INSURANCE!"

Present some evidence you care about them after they're born. You don't. "NOT MY PROBLEM!!!!11!!"

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Since more people have insurance now, those costs are dropping. Again, plenty of information about that in the ObamaCare forum (see Greenbeard's posts/threads in particular).

As for why people go to the ER for those things, they very often become critical after the doctor's gone home for the day; the ER is open 24/7. If you're struggling to breathe on a Friday evening because of pneumonia or asthma, it's a little inconvenient to wait until Monday morning.

There are walk-in clinics in some places, but they too keep "business hours." When the walk-in clinic and your doctor's office are closed, who ya gonna call?

I agree. I was replying to ZackB's ridiculous statement that publicly funded hospitals have to treat you. There are a lot of uninsured people using the ER for their medical complaints because they can't afford a doctor's visit. And that ends up costing tax payers a lot more.

I appreciate that (there are a lot of ridiculous statements being SHOUTED in this thread, starting with the OP), but the fact is that hospitals are seeing fewer expenses with regard to unpaid ER bills since passage of the PPACA. It's not perfect, but it's improving.

I wonder if their savings is greater or less than the increased cost of insurance that the responsible people pay.

Doubtful.. the average Joe will continue to foot the bill for the same folks. All the ACA is doing is forcing onerous reporting requirements on employers, forcing you to buy insurance and then taking the information reported and using it as a pretext to tax you on your benefits.

It's all a fucking scam.. we see it with excess life insurance, personal use of vehicles and on and on and on. These people will not be happy until they have bled the Average Joe dry,

it does seem as if the only people not being forced to pay for it are those that don't have it.

Yeah and a lot never will anyway. They'll stay under the radar and suck ER services and Medicaid. Some schmuck working for cash under the table ain't gonna miraculously start filing tax returns so Uncle Sam will now know he doesn't have coverage.

Now us schmucks he get employer provided coverage will now get taxed on it.. wait for it.. it is coming.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

if there is a right to healthcare, food, housing, transportation etc.. simply because you were born, and that care comes at the expense of others, then I say we have a right to tell you if you are allowed to have children or not. very simple.

So how does that work ? You advocate abortion but the child has already been born. Mad.

exactly where in your warped mind did that come from? seriously.

Because it's patently obvious.

"SAVE THE FETUSESSS!!!!! END MEDICAID, END OBAMACARE, NO ONE'S ENTITLED TO HEALTH INSURANCE!"

Present some evidence you care about them after they're born. You don't. "NOT MY PROBLEM!!!!11!!"

pretend you care about mistakes Ive made that have cost me thousands of dollars. Should I send you a post office box number so you can give me some money?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

if there is a right to healthcare, food, housing, transportation etc.. simply because you were born, and that care comes at the expense of others, then I say we have a right to tell you if you are allowed to have children or not. very simple.

So how does that work ? You advocate abortion but the child has already been born. Mad.

exactly where in your warped mind did that come from? seriously.
F-ing liberals, no idea how process a simple thought.
its why so many of them are opting for total government control of their lives. So much easier to live when someone is telling you what to do 24 hours a day.

Here you go.

I say we have a right to tell you if you are allowed to have children or not. very simple.

I cant read it as anything other than a pro abortion shout. Perhaps you could explain what you would do to carry through this libertarian plan ?

and as would be expected, a liberal only sees abortion as the only option to not having kids.
Keep going, you are really showing your true colors.

Ok - I am willing to learn. What is your plan ? How will it work ?

 

[OldLady]

jmo but I think its a valid political discussion about whether Bernie is correctly saying there's some "right," and their ain't.

That's true. Healthcare is not a right under our Constitution. When the Declaration of Independence was written, going to a doctor didn't get you very far, anyway. He might bleed you or give you a concoction that would kill you or at best do nothing to harm you but not help you, either. Now, in 2016, there are medicines and diagostic tests and amazing surgery that save and improve lives. But they are astronomically expensive, and we can no longer pay the doctor with a chicken or a dozen eggs or a face cord of firewood, like people did in the good old days. No, it is not a right, but it is a moral imperative, imo, to give everyone--rich or poor--access to the medical care which now does save lives and frequently gift us with an improved quality of life, as well. ACA isn't working because it is a chopped up, watered down mess thanks to the Republican fight against universal health care.
Those people who have no compassion for their fellow man can go live in the third world shit hole of their choice and keep their grubby money. Good riddance.

 

[RDD_1210]

A right to healthcare would seem to improve life and pursuit of happiness. As they say "two out of three ain't bad".

Agreed.. that's why contrary to public opinion, we don't deny access to healthcare.

Right...just like no one is denied the right to own a Ferrari....as long as you can afford it.

 

[RDD_1210]

A right to healthcare would seem to improve life and pursuit of happiness. As they say "two out of three ain't bad".

NO, you stupid fuck, having to pay for your healthcare would not improve my right to life, liberty, property and to pursue happiness.


.

Is this a serious post??