Jesus- Son of God. No trinity! Read first.

[Care4all]

this is Jesus speaking...

“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty” (Revelation 1:8).

Saying someone is Alpha and Omega, does mean something- He is the beginning of the new covenant. The end of Adam's sins having to end in our eternal death. "Alpha" means "beginning" and "omega" means end. We all know that GOD has NO beginning or end, so Jesus is again being honest with us. God said he had no beginning and no end. Jesus said he does. So that makes Jesus and God different in a very fundamental way.

He is also saying, "Saith the Lord"- and remember, Jesus is a mere vessel- He became the KING, and therefore the Lord, but that (being the new leader- the king, the Lord) does not make him God, either.

also, why were we commissioned to Baptize?

Matthew 28
The Great Commission
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

This is part of the new covenant. Jesus is the new leader- not the new God, just the son of God, and appointed by him to be the Shepard for us. He says, honestly, "all authority... has been GIVEN to me" - this means he gets to be the leader now. This does not need to be deciphered. =)



This refers to the Word, not Jesus.. The WORD is God. Not Jesus. This is said literally. I love John the baptist because he gave it to us straight- more straight than any of the other disciples did. He gave us MORE information than the other disciples did.



This is still talking literally about God. The word is God. Thats what it says. Literally.



Right, but see, I don't think that this is literally saying that God became Jesus, only that God created a son in his likeness. A new King! That the word became flesh is not literally saying that God became Jesus.. but that God made the Divine Word available through his own offspring.


This is one thing that I find confusing here.. Why would it say "God.. Who is at the fathers side"- I have to think this is not literal, God being "at the right hand side of the father" - instead, I think it just means that God, being our Father, let Jesus be known to us, by working miracles through him.



Yes- Jesus was the new Lord- the new leader, is all. Plenty of leaders were called "Lord" in those days, not just God. And Jesus himself also denied being God. In many verses. I will list these in a follow up post, hopefully before dinner. (I am responding on a Sunday morning).



Right, because literally, Jesus was the son of God, the conveyer of the new covenant, and our spiritual leader.

28This all happened at Bethany on the other side of the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
Jesus the Lamb of God
29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is the one I meant when I said, 'A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' 31I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel."

I do see how this part about "he was before me" can be confusing to so many people. I just do not see how it could be impossible for Jesus to have "been" a spiritual man beside God (at the right hand side of God, as the book says) even during the creation period. However, I think that Jesus was one of the most blessed people to ever walk the planet. Considering the circumstances surrounding his presence, to be a savior, and who his real dad is, I just have to think that Jesus was either with his dad when Dad was creating everything, and, like, shadowing him, to learn, or that this verse is just saying that he has knowledge of everything that was before John, from God, so he has surpassed him in that sense, also.

32Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.' 34I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God."

LOL Well I think that this is another hokey little way of John and Jesus just trying to talk people into accepting Jesus into their society. I think John was a brilliant man, as was Jesus.. so giving them something they can see and touch, helps them to get there and believe in what they see, instead of remaining cynics. Also, John is not saying that the Dove is the Son of God- but that he who the dove lands on is the Son of God.

Also, it should be noted, this verse itself says that Jesus is, in fact, the "Son of God", not God himself.

Thank you for responding, Care4all. I have never believed in a trinity.. Never even heard of any such thing until about 3 or 4 years ago, and have tried to do substantial studies to ensure that my beliefs are correct. Jesus himself says "my words are not my own, but he who sent me." He prays to God many times, also. Why would God pray to himself? Some of it (this trinity stuff) makes no sense at all. There isn't even a word in the bible that says "trinity". You would also think that, as well as Jesus spelled things out to us, that he would specifically say "I AM God. God IS me." instead he said "God is in me and I am in him, and he is in you"- which tells me there is no trinity, that my original beliefs were true. =)

JD, there are many wonderful sites out there if you google Trinity Doctrine that do give a very good reason, Biblical reason of why the Trinity is believed...

I grew up the opposite of you...I had no idea that there were Christians who did not believe in the Triune God until just a few years ago.... and trust me, I am nearing decades older than you...so I have gone a very long time in this state of cluelessness!

I think the Bible gives us many examples, and Jesus himself gave us many examples in the New Testament that SHOWS that Jesus was not equal to Abraham or Issac or Moses or Jeremiah or others that God said he knew before they were born and put here, for us. He was the Messiah, the Christ...the Messiah the old testament prophesied...who was God to come.... both the old and the new testament speak of this Messiah....not Prophet and not Saint, but Messiah/Christ.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and the Word was made FLESH....

I don't think you can get around that with your beliefs....I can understand how it is hard to comprehend 3 manifestations of one God, this is where the Mysteries of Faith come in to play....

The father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God,



but the Son is not the Father and the holy spirit is not the father, and the son is not the holy spirit or visa versa....

Also, Jesus commanding to Baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit shows them, as being the same...He would NEVER EVER put them on the same LEVEL with God, if these 2 entities were not God....that would be BLASPHEMY for certain, and ALL of his followers knew such...

Care

 

[Sunni Man]

Jesus himself says "my words are not my own, but he who sent me." He prays to God many times, also. Why would God pray to himself? Some of it (this trinity stuff) makes no sense at all. There isn't even a word in the bible that says "trinity". You would also think that, as well as Jesus spelled things out to us, that he would specifically say "I AM God. God IS me." instead he said "God is in me and I am in him, and he is in you"- which tells me there is no trinity, that my original beliefs were true.

I agree with you JD

The concept of a trinity makes NO sense at all.

Jesus was always pointing to God and praying to God.

He never claimed to be God.

But people twist his words so that he appears to be saying he is God.

 

[JD_2B]

this is Jesus speaking...

“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty” (Revelation 1:8).

Saying someone is Alpha and Omega, does mean something- He is the beginning of the new covenant. The end of Adam's sins having to end in our eternal death. "Alpha" means "beginning" and "omega" means end. We all know that GOD has NO beginning or end, so Jesus is again being honest with us. God said he had no beginning and no end. Jesus said he does. So that makes Jesus and God different in a very fundamental way.

He is also saying, "Saith the Lord"- and remember, Jesus is a mere vessel- He became the KING, and therefore the Lord, but that (being the new leader- the king, the Lord) does not make him God, either.



This is part of the new covenant. Jesus is the new leader- not the new God, just the son of God, and appointed by him to be the Shepard for us. He says, honestly, "all authority... has been GIVEN to me" - this means he gets to be the leader now. This does not need to be deciphered. =)



This refers to the Word, not Jesus.. The WORD is God. Not Jesus. This is said literally. I love John the baptist because he gave it to us straight- more straight than any of the other disciples did. He gave us MORE information than the other disciples did.



This is still talking literally about God. The word is God. Thats what it says. Literally.



Right, but see, I don't think that this is literally saying that God became Jesus, only that God created a son in his likeness. A new King! That the word became flesh is not literally saying that God became Jesus.. but that God made the Divine Word available through his own offspring.


This is one thing that I find confusing here.. Why would it say "God.. Who is at the fathers side"- I have to think this is not literal, God being "at the right hand side of the father" - instead, I think it just means that God, being our Father, let Jesus be known to us, by working miracles through him.



Yes- Jesus was the new Lord- the new leader, is all. Plenty of leaders were called "Lord" in those days, not just God. And Jesus himself also denied being God. In many verses. I will list these in a follow up post, hopefully before dinner. (I am responding on a Sunday morning).



Right, because literally, Jesus was the son of God, the conveyer of the new covenant, and our spiritual leader.



I do see how this part about "he was before me" can be confusing to so many people. I just do not see how it could be impossible for Jesus to have "been" a spiritual man beside God (at the right hand side of God, as the book says) even during the creation period. However, I think that Jesus was one of the most blessed people to ever walk the planet. Considering the circumstances surrounding his presence, to be a savior, and who his real dad is, I just have to think that Jesus was either with his dad when Dad was creating everything, and, like, shadowing him, to learn, or that this verse is just saying that he has knowledge of everything that was before John, from God, so he has surpassed him in that sense, also.

32Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.' 34I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God."

LOL Well I think that this is another hokey little way of John and Jesus just trying to talk people into accepting Jesus into their society. I think John was a brilliant man, as was Jesus.. so giving them something they can see and touch, helps them to get there and believe in what they see, instead of remaining cynics. Also, John is not saying that the Dove is the Son of God- but that he who the dove lands on is the Son of God.

Also, it should be noted, this verse itself says that Jesus is, in fact, the "Son of God", not God himself.

Thank you for responding, Care4all. I have never believed in a trinity.. Never even heard of any such thing until about 3 or 4 years ago, and have tried to do substantial studies to ensure that my beliefs are correct. Jesus himself says "my words are not my own, but he who sent me." He prays to God many times, also. Why would God pray to himself? Some of it (this trinity stuff) makes no sense at all. There isn't even a word in the bible that says "trinity". You would also think that, as well as Jesus spelled things out to us, that he would specifically say "I AM God. God IS me." instead he said "God is in me and I am in him, and he is in you"- which tells me there is no trinity, that my original beliefs were true. =)

JD, there are many wonderful sites out there if you google Trinity Doctrine that do give a very good reason, Biblical reason of why the Trinity is believed...

I grew up the opposite of you...I had no idea that there were Christians who did not believe in the Triune God until just a few years ago.... and trust me, I am nearing decades older than you...so I have gone a very long time in this state of cluelessness!

LOL! Right? Well, I just think that much of what and how we believe bible teachings, is based on how we were instructed to learn them. Personally, I do not remember anyone speaking of Jesus being God, but for all I know, they could have been referring to Jesus, when they talked about God. I think it takes a specific teaching about the trinity for people to be capable of even believing in it. I did not get that specific teaching. I think maybe you did. So perhaps there is something to this trinity belief that goes beyond truth and logic. As adults (and care4all, I know that you try VERY hard to teach the truth, so I would never accuse you otherwise) we have to distinguish between what we have been programmed with through our childhood with actual written teachings. We have to actively seek out the truth which may have been hidden from us as children, when we were the most vulnerable to rotten teachers. That is the purpose of my thread here, all in all. I want us both to open our minds up to the possibility of another truth. I am convinced that there is no trinity. As convinced as I am, I want to explore the chance of there being one. I also expect the same from other believers, as well. It is only fair to God, for us to continuously seek out HIS truth. HIS truth may be very different than the truth we have been focused on, and possibly wrongly taught. See what I am saying? The bible says we are deceived. That Most of the world is deceived about truth. We have to independently seek that truth out, through bible study, not someone else's false teachings. I hope that did not offend you. I understand how websites can be so convincing.. but they are not necessarily truthful, or cover verses in which things that completely contradict what they are saying.

I think the Bible gives us many examples, and Jesus himself gave us many examples in the New Testament that SHOWS that Jesus was not equal to Abraham or Issac or Moses or Jeremiah or others that God said he knew before they were born and put here, for us. He was the Messiah, the Christ...the Messiah the old testament prophesied...who was God to come.... both the old and the new testament speak of this Messiah....not Prophet and not Saint, but Messiah/Christ.

Right, but see heres the problem- Messiah is literally "the anticipated savior of the Jews", not God. I herald Jesus as my savior. I do not worship him as though he were God. He was not even anticipated coming as if to be a God. He was coming to be a savior.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and the Word was made FLESH....

I don't think you can get around that with your beliefs....I can understand how it is hard to comprehend 3 manifestations of one God, this is where the Mysteries of Faith come in to play....

The father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God,

I dont believe in the three manifestations of God, even based on this verse alone. This verse is not saying that God WAS literally "the word" anyways. No verses say such a thing. Why should I believe something in a literal sense, that is not meant literally? This verse is saying that in the beginning, he talked to Moses- his word was given to moses, and to Adam and Eve. And before that, while he was making everything, he told Moses what he said and did. That is just the word. The word is like.. a promise, a covenant. It is not a literal being. Nothing in the bible contradicts my belief that the word is NOT a literal being.

but the Son is not the Father and the holy spirit is not the father, and the son is not the holy spirit or visa versa....

OK Well to believe in a trinity, and to believe that Jesus is God, the same as God being Jesus, etc, etc, and all that, then you cannot make it out to be one way and not the other. In a trinity as one where Jesus is God, God must also, then, be Jesus. This is how you present it, so it is illogical to turn it backwards and say that vice versa is not the case for the trinity. This is another reason I do not believe in trinity. It is simply illogical.

Also, Jesus commanding to Baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit shows them, as being the same...He would NEVER EVER put them on the same LEVEL with God, if these 2 entities were not God....that would be BLASPHEMY for certain, and ALL of his followers knew such...

Care

No- Jesus (being God, apparently, according to trinitarian belief) would have simply commanded to baptize in the name of God. There is only one God. The bible says this over and over.

The Father is Jesus's father. That is God. The son is the son of God- Jesus. The holy spirit is also not an entity but the promised word, and the faith that we hold that God will make good on his word.

Also, God is not the Father's real name. God has a name, and it is not Jesus. It was YHWH, or whatever English variation you want to use- impossible to pronounce in English, although Jehovahs Witnesses pronounce is Jehovah. Jews call him Yahewah, and other denominations call him other close pronunciations.

His name occurs 6518 times in the Ben Chayyim Hebrew Text of 1525 A.D., on which the Old Testament of the King James Bible is based. Two variants of יהוה occur in the Ben Chayyim Hebrew Text, and six other variants occur in the Leningrad Codex of 1008-1010 A.D., which is the oldest known complete extant Masoretic Text.

Jehovah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is also an interesting Wikipedia article (user created, so the weight is only on those things with references)
Names of God - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Going through just the beginning portion of this wiki page on the trinity- one can see that the only thing needed to debunk the myth of there being three-gods in one, is to show that Jesus, Yahewa (or Jehovah, whatever) and the holy spirit are entirely separate, and especially showing that the holy spirit is a non-entity and more like a spirit that seen and experienced at a school pep rally.

Trinity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As you can see by the examples of the Holy Spirit on this other wikipedia page on the Holy Spirit, it is exactly this- a spirit of mindset, rather than an entity. It is our conscience. It is what God gave us, to be mindful of each other, and God Himself..

Holy Spirit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We got spirit yes we do, we got spirit how bout you???!!

I would like to continue this conversation, Care. I hope you do too. =)

 

[Fatality]

good gawd so many errors. youre showing a twisted up ball of twine and saying "see how straight and unbending it is?"

 

[JakeStarkey]

Reading all of the above is exactly why I am anti-nomian. God speaks the message of grace and mercy to each person individually. Argumenation does not lead to salvation, in my simple opinion.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yeshua also stated that "the Kingdom of God is within".

Now, if you were to follow Jewish theology (of which Yeshua was a good Jewish boy), you would understand that it states in their theology that the soul is a small piece of HaShem (God) that He carved out from under His Throne with the blade of self will.

In other words, just like Buddha taught as well, we are ALL a small piece of God.

I just wish that more people would act like it instead of all the bigotry and hatred.

 

[Sunni Man]

I just wish that more people would act like it instead of all the bigotry and hatred.

Very true ABikerSailor.

Bigotry and hatred are toxic influences on peoples lives.

 

[JD_2B]

I agree with the fact that arguing religious doctrine is not the answer.. I am only trying to discuss it of course.

Fatality takes the name of one who will do nothing for the sake of Good. He is a spreader of hate, and does not belong in this forum, except to do the work of the devil.

I don't know why anyone would think that saying mean and just sub-literate things would be at all constructive.

 

[Terral]

Hi JD:

Jesus did say to his disciples "He is in me, and I am in him".. But at the same time, he also said "He is in you"..

God did not exist in Jesus as an entity. God exists in all of us as a spiritual presence, not not as an entity, either.

It is silly to believe in a trinity (God, Jesus and Holy Spirit all being one and the same). It is totally unbiblical . . .

JD does NOT even begin to know the differences between the "Only True God" AND "My Father who is IN HEAVEN." I explain the differences here.

The Mystery of God's Hidden Wisdom is explained here.

Jesus Christ the "Man of Heaven" and Adam the "Man of the Earth*" is explained here.

The Big Bang Theory Of Creation Is A MYTH is explained here.

And lastly, The Trinity Conspiracy is explained here.

And no, I do not expect a single soul here confused to understand a single word ...

GL,

Terral << means "man of the earth*" . . .

 

[ABikerSailor]

Another quick fact for you Trinity types to think about...........

When Yeshua (Jesus) was asked by His disciples when He would come back, He stated that He didn't know the hour or the date, only God did.

Now, if Yeshua didn't know when He was coming back, but God did, how is it that God could hide something from Himself that is in the form of Yeshua?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Saying someone is Alpha and Omega, does mean something- He is the beginning of the new covenant. The end of Adam's sins having to end in our eternal death. "Alpha" means "beginning" and "omega" means end. We all know that GOD has NO beginning or end, so Jesus is again being honest with us. God said he had no beginning and no end. Jesus said he does. So that makes Jesus and God different in a very fundamental way.

He is also saying, "Saith the Lord"- and remember, Jesus is a mere vessel- He became the KING, and therefore the Lord, but that (being the new leader- the king, the Lord) does not make him God, either.



This is part of the new covenant. Jesus is the new leader- not the new God, just the son of God, and appointed by him to be the Shepard for us. He says, honestly, "all authority... has been GIVEN to me" - this means he gets to be the leader now. This does not need to be deciphered. =)



This refers to the Word, not Jesus.. The WORD is God. Not Jesus. This is said literally. I love John the baptist because he gave it to us straight- more straight than any of the other disciples did. He gave us MORE information than the other disciples did.



This is still talking literally about God. The word is God. Thats what it says. Literally.



Right, but see, I don't think that this is literally saying that God became Jesus, only that God created a son in his likeness. A new King! That the word became flesh is not literally saying that God became Jesus.. but that God made the Divine Word available through his own offspring.


This is one thing that I find confusing here.. Why would it say "God.. Who is at the fathers side"- I have to think this is not literal, God being "at the right hand side of the father" - instead, I think it just means that God, being our Father, let Jesus be known to us, by working miracles through him.



Yes- Jesus was the new Lord- the new leader, is all. Plenty of leaders were called "Lord" in those days, not just God. And Jesus himself also denied being God. In many verses. I will list these in a follow up post, hopefully before dinner. (I am responding on a Sunday morning).



Right, because literally, Jesus was the son of God, the conveyer of the new covenant, and our spiritual leader.



I do see how this part about "he was before me" can be confusing to so many people. I just do not see how it could be impossible for Jesus to have "been" a spiritual man beside God (at the right hand side of God, as the book says) even during the creation period. However, I think that Jesus was one of the most blessed people to ever walk the planet. Considering the circumstances surrounding his presence, to be a savior, and who his real dad is, I just have to think that Jesus was either with his dad when Dad was creating everything, and, like, shadowing him, to learn, or that this verse is just saying that he has knowledge of everything that was before John, from God, so he has surpassed him in that sense, also.



LOL Well I think that this is another hokey little way of John and Jesus just trying to talk people into accepting Jesus into their society. I think John was a brilliant man, as was Jesus.. so giving them something they can see and touch, helps them to get there and believe in what they see, instead of remaining cynics. Also, John is not saying that the Dove is the Son of God- but that he who the dove lands on is the Son of God.

Also, it should be noted, this verse itself says that Jesus is, in fact, the "Son of God", not God himself.

Thank you for responding, Care4all. I have never believed in a trinity.. Never even heard of any such thing until about 3 or 4 years ago, and have tried to do substantial studies to ensure that my beliefs are correct. Jesus himself says "my words are not my own, but he who sent me." He prays to God many times, also. Why would God pray to himself? Some of it (this trinity stuff) makes no sense at all. There isn't even a word in the bible that says "trinity". You would also think that, as well as Jesus spelled things out to us, that he would specifically say "I AM God. God IS me." instead he said "God is in me and I am in him, and he is in you"- which tells me there is no trinity, that my original beliefs were true. =)

JD, there are many wonderful sites out there if you google Trinity Doctrine that do give a very good reason, Biblical reason of why the Trinity is believed...

I grew up the opposite of you...I had no idea that there were Christians who did not believe in the Triune God until just a few years ago.... and trust me, I am nearing decades older than you...so I have gone a very long time in this state of cluelessness!

LOL! Right? Well, I just think that much of what and how we believe bible teachings, is based on how we were instructed to learn them. Personally, I do not remember anyone speaking of Jesus being God, but for all I know, they could have been referring to Jesus, when they talked about God. I think it takes a specific teaching about the trinity for people to be capable of even believing in it. I did not get that specific teaching. I think maybe you did. So perhaps there is something to this trinity belief that goes beyond truth and logic. As adults (and care4all, I know that you try VERY hard to teach the truth, so I would never accuse you otherwise) we have to distinguish between what we have been programmed with through our childhood with actual written teachings. We have to actively seek out the truth which may have been hidden from us as children, when we were the most vulnerable to rotten teachers. That is the purpose of my thread here, all in all. I want us both to open our minds up to the possibility of another truth. I am convinced that there is no trinity. As convinced as I am, I want to explore the chance of there being one. I also expect the same from other believers, as well. It is only fair to God, for us to continuously seek out HIS truth. HIS truth may be very different than the truth we have been focused on, and possibly wrongly taught. See what I am saying? The bible says we are deceived. That Most of the world is deceived about truth. We have to independently seek that truth out, through bible study, not someone else's false teachings. I hope that did not offend you. I understand how websites can be so convincing.. but they are not necessarily truthful, or cover verses in which things that completely contradict what they are saying.



Right, but see heres the problem- Messiah is literally "the anticipated savior of the Jews", not God. I herald Jesus as my savior. I do not worship him as though he were God. He was not even anticipated coming as if to be a God. He was coming to be a savior.



I dont believe in the three manifestations of God, even based on this verse alone. This verse is not saying that God WAS literally "the word" anyways. No verses say such a thing. Why should I believe something in a literal sense, that is not meant literally? This verse is saying that in the beginning, he talked to Moses- his word was given to moses, and to Adam and Eve. And before that, while he was making everything, he told Moses what he said and did. That is just the word. The word is like.. a promise, a covenant. It is not a literal being. Nothing in the bible contradicts my belief that the word is NOT a literal being.

but the Son is not the Father and the holy spirit is not the father, and the son is not the holy spirit or visa versa....

OK Well to believe in a trinity, and to believe that Jesus is God, the same as God being Jesus, etc, etc, and all that, then you cannot make it out to be one way and not the other. In a trinity as one where Jesus is God, God must also, then, be Jesus. This is how you present it, so it is illogical to turn it backwards and say that vice versa is not the case for the trinity. This is another reason I do not believe in trinity. It is simply illogical.

Also, Jesus commanding to Baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit shows them, as being the same...He would NEVER EVER put them on the same LEVEL with God, if these 2 entities were not God....that would be BLASPHEMY for certain, and ALL of his followers knew such...

Care

No- Jesus (being God, apparently, according to trinitarian belief) would have simply commanded to baptize in the name of God. There is only one God. The bible says this over and over.

The Father is Jesus's father. That is God. The son is the son of God- Jesus. The holy spirit is also not an entity but the promised word, and the faith that we hold that God will make good on his word.

Also, God is not the Father's real name. God has a name, and it is not Jesus. It was YHWH, or whatever English variation you want to use- impossible to pronounce in English, although Jehovahs Witnesses pronounce is Jehovah. Jews call him Yahewah, and other denominations call him other close pronunciations.

His name occurs 6518 times in the Ben Chayyim Hebrew Text of 1525 A.D., on which the Old Testament of the King James Bible is based. Two variants of &#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492; occur in the Ben Chayyim Hebrew Text, and six other variants occur in the Leningrad Codex of 1008-1010 A.D., which is the oldest known complete extant Masoretic Text.

Jehovah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is also an interesting Wikipedia article (user created, so the weight is only on those things with references)
Names of God - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Going through just the beginning portion of this wiki page on the trinity- one can see that the only thing needed to debunk the myth of there being three-gods in one, is to show that Jesus, Yahewa (or Jehovah, whatever) and the holy spirit are entirely separate, and especially showing that the holy spirit is a non-entity and more like a spirit that seen and experienced at a school pep rally.

Trinity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As you can see by the examples of the Holy Spirit on this other wikipedia page on the Holy Spirit, it is exactly this- a spirit of mindset, rather than an entity. It is our conscience. It is what God gave us, to be mindful of each other, and God Himself..

Holy Spirit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We got spirit yes we do, we got spirit how bout you???!!

I would like to continue this conversation, Care. I hope you do too. =)

Constantine (232-327 CE) brought Christianity to the Roman Empire, and believed that religious disputes and controversies brought with them instability, preferring where possible to establish an orthodoxy, so he brought 300 bishops to the Council of Nicaea, May 20, 325.The immediate reason for the Council was the dispute between Arius, an Alexandrian priest, and his bishop in 306. Arius argues that Christ could not be divine, but was an intermediary of God. In 320, Arius was excommunicated- but his ideas continued to spread. At the Council, Constantine tried to find a compromise, but the emperor carried out his earlier statement: everybody who refuses to endorse the Creed will be exiled. Arius, Theonas, and Secundus refused to adhere to the creed, and were thus exiled to Illyria, in addition to being excommunicated. The works of Arius were ordered to be confiscated and consigned to the flames while all persons found possessing them were to be executed. A later council supported the Monophysite position: the nature of Christ contained no difference between human and devine, on a single-natured (Monophysite) Jesus.
[The Arian Baptistry in Ravenna, Italy was erected by Ostrogothic King Theodoric the Great between the end of the 5th century and the beginning of the sixth century. In the central mosaic, the Arian view of Jesus is shown: he is baptized in the Jordan by John, and only at that moment does he achieve divinity:]

 

[CMike]

I think the OP made some pretty intelligent remarks.

That said, I am Jewish. Jesus' claims are completely contrary to judaism and what G-D told the jews.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I think the OP made some pretty intelligent remarks.

That said, I am Jewish. Jesus' claims are completely contrary to judaism and what G-D told the jews.

Not so much contrary as it is differetn.

Yeshua didn't come for the Jews, He came for the nations of the world. The Jews already had a covenant with HaShem, which had been earned by Abraham (which is why he is called the "father of many nations".

Matter of fact, in the Bible, when Yeshua went out of the city of Jerusalem on his way to a Gentile who needed His help, a man saw Him.

Yeshua told the Jew, who immediately recognized Him for who He is, don't tell anyone that it's Me, and He left.

After he cast the demons out of the man and into the swine, He then told the Gentile "Go and tell everyone what God has done for you through Me."

That meant that He wanted the Jews to keep quiet (mainly because the High Priests were looking for Him), but when it came to Gentiles (non-Jews), He told them to tell everyone.

 

[CMike]

I think the OP made some pretty intelligent remarks.

That said, I am Jewish. Jesus' claims are completely contrary to judaism and what G-D told the jews.

Not so much contrary as it is differetn.

Yeshua didn't come for the Jews, He came for the nations of the world. The Jews already had a covenant with HaShem, which had been earned by Abraham (which is why he is called the "father of many nations".

Matter of fact, in the Bible, when Yeshua went out of the city of Jerusalem on his way to a Gentile who needed His help, a man saw Him.

Yeshua told the Jew, who immediately recognized Him for who He is, don't tell anyone that it's Me, and He left.

After he cast the demons out of the man and into the swine, He then told the Gentile "Go and tell everyone what God has done for you through Me."

That meant that He wanted the Jews to keep quiet (mainly because the High Priests were looking for Him), but when it came to Gentiles (non-Jews), He told them to tell everyone.

I can accept that jesus had nothing to do regarding judaism.

I do understand that he is important in your beliefs, not mine though.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jesus rarely interacted with the non-Jews and only on a personal level. I suspect BikerASailor knows that the story of Jesus casting out demons is a controversial one with several issues. Please post the scriptural verses that that is being referred to.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I think the OP made some pretty intelligent remarks.

That said, I am Jewish. Jesus' claims are completely contrary to judaism and what G-D told the jews.

Not so much contrary as it is differetn.

Yeshua didn't come for the Jews, He came for the nations of the world. The Jews already had a covenant with HaShem, which had been earned by Abraham (which is why he is called the "father of many nations".

Matter of fact, in the Bible, when Yeshua went out of the city of Jerusalem on his way to a Gentile who needed His help, a man saw Him.

Yeshua told the Jew, who immediately recognized Him for who He is, don't tell anyone that it's Me, and He left.

After he cast the demons out of the man and into the swine, He then told the Gentile "Go and tell everyone what God has done for you through Me."

That meant that He wanted the Jews to keep quiet (mainly because the High Priests were looking for Him), but when it came to Gentiles (non-Jews), He told them to tell everyone.

I can accept that jesus had nothing to do regarding judaism.

I do understand that he is important in your beliefs, not mine though.

Actually, it's not so much important, as I find it interesting.

When I was growing up, I went through a lot of foster families (was orphaned at 8), and every fucking family I went into would tell me that the things I'd learned from my last family were wrong, and that I was going to hell unless I believed as they did.

Pretty heavy trip for a kid between the ages of 8 and 16.

So, when I joined the military, I quit Christianity cold. Went on a spiritual search and found a philosophy that worked for me and that is Tao. Started it in 1994.

Along the way, I discovered that it's not the Christians or Christianity that I didn't like, it was the lies thrust upon me by guardians and foster parents.

I then started to investigate Christianity again, and used the things I'd learned in Tao to find out the truth.

Then...........my current room mate introduced me to Judaism.

I noticed that there were MANY similarities between Tao and Judaism. Matter of fact, a lot of the same terms and concepts that the Jews have are reflected in Tao.

So, no.......you're wrong about my belief system.

 

[CMike]

Well...actually I have no idea about the beliefs of Tao

 

[Smartt33]

Jesus did say to his disciples "He is in me, and I am in him".. But at the same time, he also said "He is in you"..

God did not exist in Jesus as an entity. God exists in all of us as a spiritual presence, not not as an entity, either.

It is silly to believe in a trinity (God, Jesus and Holy Spirit all being one and the same). It is totally unbiblical.

It is based on the precept of this one single verse, for some STRANGE reason:

John 14
11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me;

But this chapter is not finished yet!!! Read on..

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

In the bible, the term "Lord" means "the one who rules us"- not God, per se.

John 21:12
Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord

(Since this verse is after John 14- it follows in logic that the disciples specifically knew that Jesus is not God, only that the is the WAY to God. They called him "Lord" much the same way as the kings of the bible were also called "Lord")

The honesty from both Jesus and God is astonishing. They both tell the entire truth- who they are, why they are there, etc.. In Jesus' case, God sent him to be the new leader. Therefore, he can say "I am the Lord". He is not saying "I am God". He is saying God sent me. Whatever words are not from me, but are from God.

Based on everything above, the logic, anyways, It could be likened in the same way, then, that all of the prophets who were inspired by God, or heard him speak, were also messiahs, just because they taught his word... Now that doesn't make sense, either.

They were also honest in who they were, too. It is only deceived people (and stupid ones, also) who claim that Jesus is God.

OK, if that is true, then you should not have a hard time telling us just how the doctrine of the trinity changes anything (makes a difference) about salvation, God's Creation, His plan for eternity, the return of Christ, Heaven and Hell, and the Christian life.

I would just like to see these anyway. I personmally am not sure that having the doctrine of trinity or not changes anything about what the Bible says about anything. No one understands the trinity enough to explain it anyway.

Just a thought though:

Jesus used the words, "I am He," when a question about his being God, or the Father.

 

[JD_2B]

Hi JD:

Jesus did say to his disciples "He is in me, and I am in him".. But at the same time, he also said "He is in you"..

God did not exist in Jesus as an entity. God exists in all of us as a spiritual presence, not not as an entity, either.

It is silly to believe in a trinity (God, Jesus and Holy Spirit all being one and the same). It is totally unbiblical . . .

JD does NOT even begin to know the differences between the "Only True God" AND "My Father who is IN HEAVEN." I explain the differences here.

The Mystery of God's Hidden Wisdom is explained here.

Jesus Christ the "Man of Heaven" and Adam the "Man of the Earth*" is explained here.

The Big Bang Theory Of Creation Is A MYTH is explained here.

And lastly, The Trinity Conspiracy is explained here.

And no, I do not expect a single soul here confused to understand a single word ...

GL,

Terral << means "man of the earth*" . . .

I find the bible (not requiring complex graphics and any further explanation for a lateral thinking person to understand) much easier to understand, but I do appreciate your efforts.

 

[JD_2B]

OK, if that is true, then you should not have a hard time telling us just how the doctrine of the trinity changes anything (makes a difference) about salvation, God's Creation, His plan for eternity, the return of Christ, Heaven and Hell, and the Christian life.

I would just like to see these anyway. I personmally am not sure that having the doctrine of trinity or not changes anything about what the Bible says about anything. No one understands the trinity enough to explain it anyway.

Just a thought though:

Jesus used the words, "I am He," when a question about his being God, or the Father.

He did not say that.. He said He is IN me and I am in him, and He is in you.

ALL of the answers are in the good book- the book of John...

Jesus said:
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g]

3:31"The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. 33The man who has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. 34For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God[k] gives the Spirit without limit. 35The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."[l]

4:21Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

5:7Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." 18For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. 19Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these. 21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

24"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. 25I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. 27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

30By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

6"I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me. 37And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39You diligently study[c] the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

41"I do not accept praise from men, 42but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God[d]?

45"But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?"

John 6:10Jesus said, "Have the people sit down." There was plenty of grass in that place, and the men sat down, about five thousand of them. 11Jesus then took the loaves, gave thanks, and distributed to those who were seated as much as they wanted. He did the same with the fish.

6:15Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself.

26Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, you are looking for me, not because you saw miraculous signs but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval."

29Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

32Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."

35Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

Jesus answered. 44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

46No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

6Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

60On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"

63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit[e] and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.


68Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God."

7:6Therefore Jesus told them, "The right time for me has not yet come; for you any time is right. 7The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil.

16Jesus answered, "My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me.
17If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. 18He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him. 19Has not Moses given you the law? Yet not one of you keeps the law. Why are you trying to kill me?"


28Then Jesus, still teaching in the temple courts, cried out, "Yes, you know me, and you know where I am from. I am not here on my own, but he who sent me is true. You do not know him, 29but I know him because I am from him and he sent me."

33Jesus said, "I am with you for only a short time, and then I go to the one who sent me. 34You will look for me, but you will not find me; and where I am, you cannot come."

38Whoever believes in me, as[c] the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

John 18:37"You are a king, then!" said Pilate.
Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."

8:3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery

12When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

15You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. 18I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."
9Then they asked him, "Where is your father?"

"You do not know me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also."

25"Who are you?" they asked.

"Just what I have been claiming all along," Jesus replied. 26"I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world."

27They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. 28So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him." 30Even as he spoke, many put their faith in him.

31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

40As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the things your own father does."

42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.

47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

49"I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge

54Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word.

9:3"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.

10:7Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep

1"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep.
14"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep.

17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

25Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[d]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one."

34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[e]? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? 37Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." 39Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

Now on to the oneness- or lack thereof- The oneness is just in reference to them both working towards the same resolution.. That God's flocks will work for God..

4When he heard this, Jesus said, "This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God's glory so that God's Son may be glorified through it."

21"Lord," Martha said to Jesus, "if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask."

23Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again."

28And after she had said this, she went back and called her sister Mary aside. "The Teacher is here," she said, "and is asking for you." 29When Mary heard this, she got up quickly and went to him. 30Now Jesus had not yet entered the village, but was still at the place where Martha had met him.
33When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. 34"Where have you laid him?" he asked.
"Come and see, Lord," they replied

John 12: 7"Leave her alone," Jesus replied. " It was intended that she should save this perfume for the day of my burial. 8You will always have the poor among you, but you will not always have me."


23Jesus replied, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. 25The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.

0Jesus said, "This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." 33He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.

42Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; 43for they loved praise from men more than praise from God.

47"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. 48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. 49For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. 50I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."

John 13:12 "Do you understand what I have done for you?" he asked them. 13"You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet. 15I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

John 14 - Passage Lookup - New International Version - BibleGateway.com Must be read THOROUGHLY to truly understand that no trinity exists!

John 14:9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

25"All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.7Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

(Holy Spirit= Followers of Jesus, ONLY- As opposed to false teachers.. )

28"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

John 15:1"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, and I will remain in you.

5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

See- Unity is not trinity- Unity is just standing UNITED for a singular cause..

10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love


15I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. 17This is my command: Love each other.

20Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me. 22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin. 23He who hates me hates my Father as well. 24If I had not done among them what no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my Father.

26"When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me. 27And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

The following passage can be difficult to discern..


John 16:7But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt[a] in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

However- This is what Jesus said all along, that God is in charge of making the judgments.. But that those who do not believe will make worldly judgments.. He is talking about the world of sin, not the world of righteousness.. The world of sin will be convicted by the "holy" spirit of those who still maintain the word- the truth. The bible never errs in remaining constant in this. Read further to see-

12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

Proof:
25"Though I have been speaking figuratively, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father.

28I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father."

17:1After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Clearly, God made Jesus when he made the Heavens.. That is common sense.

6"I have revealed you[a] to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one. 12While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. 13"I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24"Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. 25"Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

Case closed.