Jesus- Son of God. No trinity! Read first.

[JD_2B]

Jesus did say to his disciples "He is in me, and I am in him".. But at the same time, he also said "He is in you"..

God did not exist in Jesus as an entity. God exists in all of us as a spiritual presence, not not as an entity, either.

It is silly to believe in a trinity (God, Jesus and Holy Spirit all being one and the same). It is totally unbiblical.

It is based on the precept of this one single verse, for some STRANGE reason:

John 14
11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me;

But this chapter is not finished yet!!! Read on..

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

In the bible, the term "Lord" means "the one who rules us"- not God, per se.

John 21:12
Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord

(Since this verse is after John 14- it follows in logic that the disciples specifically knew that Jesus is not God, only that the is the WAY to God. They called him "Lord" much the same way as the kings of the bible were also called "Lord")

The honesty from both Jesus and God is astonishing. They both tell the entire truth- who they are, why they are there, etc.. In Jesus' case, God sent him to be the new leader. Therefore, he can say "I am the Lord". He is not saying "I am God". He is saying God sent me. Whatever words are not from me, but are from God.

Based on everything above, the logic, anyways, It could be likened in the same way, then, that all of the prophets who were inspired by God, or heard him speak, were also messiahs, just because they taught his word... Now that doesn't make sense, either.

They were also honest in who they were, too. It is only deceived people (and stupid ones, also) who claim that Jesus is God.

 

[Fatality]

the armchair theologian pukes, vomits out ignorance.

 

[JD_2B]

the armchair theologian pukes, vomits out ignorance.

What specific verses have you read that contradict this? In other words, WHY do you think Jesus is God, beyond whatever some false teacher standing behind a pulpit told you?

 

[Sunni Man]

Jesus is not God

Jesus never claimed to be God.

He just pointed to God.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Unitarianism is long-held belief among a minority of Christians, as is the polytheism of certain Christian sects, such as the Mormons. Most Christians, however, believe in the Trinity. I don't believe that will change anytime soon.

 

[JD_2B]

Unitarianism is long-held belief among a minority of Christians, as is the polytheism of certain Christian sects, such as the Mormons. Most Christians, however, believe in the Trinity. I don't believe that will change anytime soon.

Are you Christian? In any case.. what do you believe?

 

[JakeStarkey]

I like Jefferson's comment about being a sect of one. Really, I guess, I am antinomian, but I do worship regularly with one particular sect because the liturgy and ritual verily speak to me.

 

[Fatality]

the armchair theologian pukes, vomits out ignorance.

What specific verses have you read that contradict this?

thats part of your problem moron, you think a verse implies a doctrine. idiot.

 

[JD_2B]

the armchair theologian pukes, vomits out ignorance.

What specific verses have you read that contradict this?

thats part of youre problem moron, you think a verse implies a doctrine. idiot.

So "doctrine"- literally meaning "that which is taught"- and what was taught by Jesus matters not, HOW???

Personally attack me again, and it only shows that YOU are the ignorant one. Not I.

 

[Fatality]

What specific verses have you read that contradict this?

thats part of youre problem moron, you think a verse implies a doctrine. idiot.

So "doctrine"- literally meaning "that which is taught"- and what was taught by Jesus matters not, HOW???

Personally attack me again, and it only shows that YOU are the ignorant one. Not I.

i seriously doubt you would accept anything said to you becasue you think youre right. but the fact is youre just making shit up, and your position cannot be substantiated nor sustained.

 

[JW Frogen]

I am a big fan of the rejected books, like Thomas or the Book of Larry.

The latter has a passage that moves me; Jesus dying on the cross tells his disciples "go, I think I will just hang around here for awhile."

 

[JW Frogen]

Or at the Wedding of Cana, Jesus turns water into wine and then laments "dam chardonnay! My Lord, my Lord, why has thou forsaken me?"

 

[JW Frogen]

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. But the rich man can afford to buy a huge needle and a very small camel."

 

[Si modo]

Far greater minds and greater scholars have analyzed the Trinity than the OP's.

 

[JW Frogen]

Or who can forget "Before a cock crows, you will deny Me three times. Choke the cock or thy own chicken should you not find a crowing cock before you deney me and know this, it is your love of crowing cocks that had you named Peter."

 

[rdean]

Does anyone have a good picture of Jesus?

 

[Avatar4321]

Does anyone have a good picture of Jesus?

I'm sure they had so many cameras available during the meridian of time.

 

[Fatality]

Does anyone have a good picture of Jesus?

got a picture of george washington?

oh, and you do know the difference between a picture and a painting right?

 

[Care4all]

this is Jesus speaking...

“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty” (Revelation 1:8).

also, why were we commissioned to Baptize?

Matthew 28
The Great Commission
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

and most important!

John 1 (New International Version)

John 1
The Word Became Flesh
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.

6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[e][f]who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
John the Baptist Denies Being the Christ
19Now this was John's testimony when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. 20He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, "I am not the Christ.[g]"

21They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?"
He said, "I am not."
"Are you the Prophet?"
He answered, "No."

22Finally they said, "Who are you? Give us an answer to take back to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?"

23John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, "I am the voice of one calling in the desert, 'Make straight the way for the Lord.' "[h]

24Now some Pharisees who had been sent 25questioned him, "Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?"

26"I baptize with water," John replied, "but among you stands one you do not know. 27He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie."

28This all happened at Bethany on the other side of the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
Jesus the Lamb of God
29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is the one I meant when I said, 'A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' 31I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel."

32Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.' 34I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God."

 

[JD_2B]

this is Jesus speaking...

“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty” (Revelation 1:8).

Saying someone is Alpha and Omega, does mean something- He is the beginning of the new covenant. The end of Adam's sins having to end in our eternal death. "Alpha" means "beginning" and "omega" means end. We all know that GOD has NO beginning or end, so Jesus is again being honest with us. God said he had no beginning and no end. Jesus said he does. So that makes Jesus and God different in a very fundamental way.

He is also saying, "Saith the Lord"- and remember, Jesus is a mere vessel- He became the KING, and therefore the Lord, but that (being the new leader- the king, the Lord) does not make him God, either.

also, why were we commissioned to Baptize?

Matthew 28
The Great Commission
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

This is part of the new covenant. Jesus is the new leader- not the new God, just the son of God, and appointed by him to be the Shepard for us. He says, honestly, "all authority... has been GIVEN to me" - this means he gets to be the leader now. This does not need to be deciphered. =)

and most important!

John 1 (New International Version)

John 1
The Word Became Flesh
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

This refers to the Word, not Jesus.. The WORD is God. Not Jesus. This is said literally. I love John the baptist because he gave it to us straight- more straight than any of the other disciples did. He gave us MORE information than the other disciples did.

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.

This is still talking literally about God. The word is God. Thats what it says. Literally.

6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Right, but see, I don't think that this is literally saying that God became Jesus, only that God created a son in his likeness. A new King! That the word became flesh is not literally saying that God became Jesus.. but that God made the Divine Word available through his own offspring.

15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[e][f]who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

This is one thing that I find confusing here.. Why would it say "God.. Who is at the fathers side"- I have to think this is not literal, God being "at the right hand side of the father" - instead, I think it just means that God, being our Father, let Jesus be known to us, by working miracles through him.

John the Baptist Denies Being the Christ
19Now this was John's testimony when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. 20He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, "I am not the Christ.[g]"

21They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?"
He said, "I am not."
"Are you the Prophet?"
He answered, "No."

22Finally they said, "Who are you? Give us an answer to take back to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?"

23John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, "I am the voice of one calling in the desert, 'Make straight the way for the Lord.' "[h]

Yes- Jesus was the new Lord- the new leader, is all. Plenty of leaders were called "Lord" in those days, not just God. And Jesus himself also denied being God. In many verses. I will list these in a follow up post, hopefully before dinner. (I am responding on a Sunday morning).

24Now some Pharisees who had been sent 25questioned him, "Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?"

26"I baptize with water," John replied, "but among you stands one you do not know. 27He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie."

Right, because literally, Jesus was the son of God, the conveyer of the new covenant, and our spiritual leader.

28This all happened at Bethany on the other side of the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
Jesus the Lamb of God
29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is the one I meant when I said, 'A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' 31I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel."

I do see how this part about "he was before me" can be confusing to so many people. I just do not see how it could be impossible for Jesus to have "been" a spiritual man beside God (at the right hand side of God, as the book says) even during the creation period. However, I think that Jesus was one of the most blessed people to ever walk the planet. Considering the circumstances surrounding his presence, to be a savior, and who his real dad is, I just have to think that Jesus was either with his dad when Dad was creating everything, and, like, shadowing him, to learn, or that this verse is just saying that he has knowledge of everything that was before John, from God, so he has surpassed him in that sense, also.

32Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.' 34I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God."

LOL Well I think that this is another hokey little way of John and Jesus just trying to talk people into accepting Jesus into their society. I think John was a brilliant man, as was Jesus.. so giving them something they can see and touch, helps them to get there and believe in what they see, instead of remaining cynics. Also, John is not saying that the Dove is the Son of God- but that he who the dove lands on is the Son of God.

Also, it should be noted, this verse itself says that Jesus is, in fact, the "Son of God", not God himself.

Thank you for responding, Care4all. I have never believed in a trinity.. Never even heard of any such thing until about 3 or 4 years ago, and have tried to do substantial studies to ensure that my beliefs are correct. Jesus himself says "my words are not my own, but he who sent me." He prays to God many times, also. Why would God pray to himself? Some of it (this trinity stuff) makes no sense at all. There isn't even a word in the bible that says "trinity". You would also think that, as well as Jesus spelled things out to us, that he would specifically say "I AM God. God IS me." instead he said "God is in me and I am in him, and he is in you"- which tells me there is no trinity, that my original beliefs were true. =)