Jesus- Son of God. No trinity! Read first.

[Terral]

Hi Sky:

What about 'I and the Father are one?'

You guys are IGNORANT of the 'differences' between the "Only True God" (John 17:3) "AND" the 'spirit witness' of 'The Word' that Christ calls "My Father who is IN HEAVEN." Can anybody guess why I place IN HEAVEN in CAPS for "My Father who is IN HEAVEN"???? Anybody?! No. Why? Because the son of man is surrounded by a herd of sheeple without one clue!

27"But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, (A)heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built! 1Kings 8:27.

Heaven (Gen. 1:8) and the Highest Heaven (Gen. 1:1) CANNOT CONTAIN GOD. Period. Therefore, "My Father who is IN HEAVEN" CANNOT BE GOD!!!

The devil has DUPED you into believing HIS LIES and you refuse to wake the hell up! Those among you worshiping "My Father who is IN HEAVEN" as 'your god' are IDOLATERS destined for the 'lake of fire' (Rev. 21:8). You are guilty of disobeying the very first commandment:

4"(A)You shall not make for yourself [a]an idol, or any likeness of what is IN HEAVEN above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth." Exodus 20:4

Those of you worshiping "My Father who is IN HEAVEN" are guilty of worshiping something IN HEAVEN as the "Only True God" (far left of Fig 1 and very top of Fig 2). You have broken God's Living Word (F+S+HS) and taken it upon yourselves to worship the 'spirit witness' (study the chart) of God's Living Word as The Almighty Himself!

One last time I will post the link to my Topic explaining:

The Differences Between GOD 'AND' My Father who is IN HEAVEN

No. Idolaters confused will never get it . . .

GL,

Terral

 

[Smartt33]

Hi Sky:

What about 'I and the Father are one?'

You guys are IGNORANT of the 'differences' between the "Only True God" (John 17:3) "AND" the 'spirit witness' of 'The Word' that Christ calls "My Father who is IN HEAVEN." Can anybody guess why I place IN HEAVEN in CAPS for "My Father who is IN HEAVEN"???? Anybody?! No. Why? Because the son of man is surrounded by a herd of sheeple without one clue!

27"But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, (A)heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built! 1Kings 8:27.

Heaven (Gen. 1:8) and the Highest Heaven (Gen. 1:1) CANNOT CONTAIN GOD. Period. Therefore, "My Father who is IN HEAVEN" CANNOT BE GOD!!!

The devil has DUPED you into believing HIS LIES and you refuse to wake the hell up! Those among you worshiping "My Father who is IN HEAVEN" as 'your god' are IDOLATERS destined for the 'lake of fire' (Rev. 21:8). You are guilty of disobeying the very first commandment:

4"(A)You shall not make for yourself [a]an idol, or any likeness of what is IN HEAVEN above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth." Exodus 20:4

Those of you worshiping "My Father who is IN HEAVEN" are guilty of worshiping something IN HEAVEN as the "Only True God" (far left of Fig 1 and very top of Fig 2). You have broken God's Living Word (F+S+HS) and taken it upon yourselves to worship the 'spirit witness' (study the chart) of God's Living Word as The Almighty Himself!

One last time I will post the link to my Topic explaining:

The Differences Between GOD 'AND' My Father who is IN HEAVEN

No. Idolaters confused will never get it . . .

GL,

Terral

I find this to be an interesting topic, however, not so great as to cause the kind of hateful talk that it causes.

The trinity cannot be explained by you or anyone else, perion. It is a concept that appears to be so, but like the very existence of God, cannot be scientifically identified.

My salvation does not depend upon my believing in the doctrine of the trinity. I do believe Jesus is God, but even that is copmplicated enough that no one can explain it to the satisfaction of all scholars.

It is not like anything. I believe Jesus was 100% man, and 100% God. I believe it is as true as the existance of God. However, I don't have to be able to prove it true in order to believe it.

 

[Avatar4321]

Hi Hawk:

Terral, how can you expect anyone to take you seriously with that ridiculous signature?

I do not expect anyone here confused to 'heed' a single word of my testimony (#1-10). Acts 13:41.

GL,

Terral

Testimony? is that was this is supposed to be? What exactly have you witnessed?

 

[PixieStix]

Jesus was right about everything He said, and if you deny His authority, you are not a believer.

You are one of many pagans that have been here from the beginning

If you are not understanding the "Trinity" and deny the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, then you have not had a true experience with Him

It is that simple. You will not have that understanding until you have learned to humble yourselves and stop claiming to know everything about the King of Kings. He even humbled Himself washing the feet of His disciples

Have you ever learned something soooo deep and profound, that you become unable to atriculate it to it's fullest?

It seems the OP, is grasping in hopes that her little ideals will not have to come crashing down, or maybe, and hopefully she is seeking truth

While I could cast pearls before your feet, I will not waste my time. Knowledge has been greatly increased, so search and seek, knock the truth shall find you But only if you are willing to accept it, if you are not, it will escape you for eternity

 

[JD_2B]

What about 'I and the Father are one?'

Same as "He is in me, and I am in him, and he is in you, etc etc etc".. Jesus makes several references to oneness that include all of the people uniting together as one.

It is not a literal term meaning "We are one and the same entity" - it simply means they are united. There is also talk of the bridegroom and such. It is like a marriage. God's son is married to God's plan. We should also be "one" with God, just like Jesus.

WWJD? Be one. And tell us to be one with each other, and with God, as well. That is not telling us to become each other, or to manifest ourselves into becoming God. Its a unity thing.

hey jd!

i don't think it is the same as: "He is in me, and I am in him, and he is in you, etc etc etc"

the reason it is not the same is because never ever was it said that we are in God...only God is in us..... where it is said, ''Jesus is in God...'', to me, leads to him being an entity of God, a manifestation of God made flesh.

I and the Father are ONE.... not the father is in me...BUT ARE ONE....

I thoroughly understand how this is all too hard to accept and your way of thought is certainly an easier path to take, one that seems as though it has more sense to it as well...and other smart people, highly religious people such as issac newton, agree with you on this....

but for me, there are many, many, many parts of the Bible on this topic that just doesn't fit your way of viewing it in my opinion, as well.

we have had a very lengthy thread on this where i have gone in to much further detail than here on it at: http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/56635-the-trinity.html

How can christian fundamentalists accept a VERY obscure belief of a trinity that is based primarily on massively long explanations that do away with the simplistic version the bible gives, and still not (I dont know if you are one of these, either, just saying) believe that the bible is pro family planning and that life begins at birth, by virtue of having air in the lungs?

You people (sorry I am not intending to say this in such a condescending tone here) take literally what is not meant literally, take one word to mean whatever your teachers have told you to think it means, no ifs ands or buts about it, and very surely transform the bible into something is wholly is NOT.

I think that some people simply believe what they choose to believe, and choose not to learn any further than that, because, frankly, they do not wish to learn any further.. They care too much about the judgment of man, to truly care for God and His truth. See, His truth is one we must always seek out. I opened this post and have remained reasonably open minded to different opinions on this, but it just seems like most of the others who have been taught the trinity (see we are not taught unitarianism- but you are taught trinity.. People believe the bible until they are taught this overcomplicated trinity idea)..

The argument of there being a Trinity, to me, is very similar to the Occam's Razor, also, and as such, it should not be even considered a possibility, IMHO.

 

[JD_2B]

If Yeshua (Jesus) IS God, then please answer this one question that continually bugs me..........

When Yeshua was asked when He would return, He stated "nobody knows the hour or the day when I will return, that is known only to The Father".

So........if Yeshua is God, then why didn't He know when He would return?

Oh that is a good point- but I am unfamiliar with the verse.. could you please source that for me? I would like to add it to my profile, as a friendly reminder. ;-)

 

[ABikerSailor]

If Yeshua (Jesus) IS God, then please answer this one question that continually bugs me..........

When Yeshua was asked when He would return, He stated "nobody knows the hour or the day when I will return, that is known only to The Father".

So........if Yeshua is God, then why didn't He know when He would return?

Oh that is a good point- but I am unfamiliar with the verse.. could you please source that for me? I would like to add it to my profile, as a friendly reminder. ;-)

Not a problem JD......here it is........

Matthew 24:36-37

36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Bible prophecy from Matthew 24:36-37

There ya go dear.

 

[JD_2B]

Jesus was right about everything He said, and if you deny His authority, you are not a believer.

You are one of many pagans that have been here from the beginning

First of all, this trinity concept did not even come about until LONG after Jesus roamed the earth. Pagans might worship multiple Gods, but I do not. I worship ONE God, and I pay homage to the Son Jesus Christ, who is MY savior, and with any luck, will be your savior also. Accepting Jesus as the savior does not equate to worshipping him. He even said "do not worship me" at some point.. I believe it was in Revelations but I would have to check it out to source it perfectly. YOU are wrong. God said do not worship false Gods or idols (including wearing the human Jesus on a cross- that is idolatry)

If you are not understanding the "Trinity" and deny the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, then you have not had a true experience with Him

How can this be true, Pixy straw? I have, indeed, had MANY experiences with God. I once was lost (out in a waterway, with a dangerous undertow- my dad forgot to throw in the anchor to the boat, and I was the only one wearing a life jacket so they made me jump in to give them flotation, and along came a boatload of fishermen who rescued us) and now I'm found.. Was blind (20/800- which, if it cant be corrected to that with glasses on is considered legally blind- which I was told I was.. Then LASIK gave me sight that is beyond perfect- I stand now at 20/13 vision) but now I see.

For yea though I walk through the valley of death (my fucking husband, 5 weeks after the honeymoon, chased me with a rifle. God made it so that he could not shoot me. He gave me the chance to get to the phone and made him believe I was shouting "GUN" at the 911 operator- And I got arrested for domestic battery- Yes I defended myself, and quite well, apparently, which - the arrest- was another Godsend, in a very mysterious way, because that saved my life I am SURE. I got an injunction approved indefinately even though he tried to contest it.) I will fear no evil. You prepare a table for me in the presence of my enemies (We got approved at a battered womans shelter, in spite of me being charged, just before the restraining order was approved) Your rod and thy staff they comfort me (I was asked if I would prefer 12 months of non supervised probation and 6 months of battered women's support groups, in exchange for dropping the charges and leaving on my record "adjudication withheld"- without me entering a guilty or no contest plea.. I needed that support group to educate myself about abusive men. Then when he started to stalk me, the state allowed me to move to another state, and finish my support groups there. Once I got there, he only managed to get into my house when I was FAR away from home..) He makes me to lie down in green pastures (I am a nature freak, to put it lightly.. and I also tend to surround myself with upright, positive people) He restores my soul (He CONSTANTLY lets me know how much he loves and approves of me, especially when people try to put me down, like asshole boyfriends/ husbands) He leads me down the path of righteousness (I have lost/ quit jobs FOR GOD. And every time, a BETTER door opened for me.. ) For his name's sake.

Dont you EVER say anything like that to someone you don't know, when it is YOU who has FALSE experiences with an untrue God. You probably claim to see ghosts, too. You do realize that the dead do not think, right?

It is that simple. You will not have that understanding until you have learned to humble yourselves and stop claiming to know everything about the King of Kings. He even humbled Himself washing the feet of His disciples

And I have done the same for GOD. Jesus humbled himself, not because he is God- but because he is humble for God.

Have you ever learned something soooo deep and profound, that you become unable to atriculate it to it's fullest?

Yep. I am trying to explain that to you here.. All you want to do is tell me I am a pagan and minimize my beliefs and cut me down, just because YOU cannot cope with any further exploration into the truth. That is not MY problem.

It seems the OP, is grasping in hopes that her little ideals will not have to come crashing down, or maybe, and hopefully she is seeking truth

I spent many many hours seeking out this truth. One knows better than to be a false teacher. I have seen all of 5 or 6 verses even posted on here that could be construed to make someone think that Jesus is God. Compared with the hundred or so I posted that obliterate that notion, I am afraid that your 5 are just not worth their weight.

While I could cast pearls before your feet, I will not waste my time. Knowledge has been greatly increased, so search and seek, knock the truth shall find you But only if you are willing to accept it, if you are not, it will escape you for eternity

Are you wishing that I die, just because I do not accept the false teachings that you have come to accept???

I wish the same (not death, but the finding of truth- Gods will is this) to you..

And dont ever talk to me like this again.

 

[JD_2B]

If Yeshua (Jesus) IS God, then please answer this one question that continually bugs me..........

When Yeshua was asked when He would return, He stated "nobody knows the hour or the day when I will return, that is known only to The Father".

So........if Yeshua is God, then why didn't He know when He would return?

Oh that is a good point- but I am unfamiliar with the verse.. could you please source that for me? I would like to add it to my profile, as a friendly reminder. ;-)

Not a problem JD......here it is........

Matthew 24:36-37

36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Bible prophecy from Matthew 24:36-37

There ya go dear.

Gracias!!! Arigato!! Merce!!! Thanks!

 

[ABikerSailor]

Oh that is a good point- but I am unfamiliar with the verse.. could you please source that for me? I would like to add it to my profile, as a friendly reminder. ;-)

Not a problem JD......here it is........

Matthew 24:36-37

36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Bible prophecy from Matthew 24:36-37

There ya go dear.

Gracias!!! Arigato!! Merce!!! Thanks!

No problem. 1 positive rep will be thanks enough.

(Gawd I feel like such a slut...........first time I've ever rep whored).

 

[JD_2B]

Hi Hawk:

Terral, how can you expect anyone to take you seriously with that ridiculous signature?

I do not expect anyone here confused to 'heed' a single word of my testimony (#1-10). Acts 13:41.

GL,

Terral

Yes- and so that nothing here is misconstrued, as many trinitarians do enjoy spinning the facts-


Acts 13
30"But God (BW)raised Him from the dead;

31and for many days (BX)He appeared to those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, the very ones who are now (BY)His witnesses to the people.

32"And we (BZ)preach to you the good news of (CA)the promise made to the fathers,

33that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He (CB)raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, '(CC)YOU ARE MY SON; TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU.'

34"As for the fact that He (CD)raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to decay, He has spoken in this way: '(CE)I WILL GIVE YOU THE HOLY and SURE blessings OF DAVID.'

35"Therefore He also says in another Psalm, '(CF)YOU WILL NOT ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.'

36"For (CG)David, after he had served (CH)the purpose of God in his own generation, (CI)fell asleep, and was laid among his fathers and underwent decay;

37but He whom God (CJ)raised did not undergo decay.

38"Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that (CK)through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

39and through Him (CL)everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

40"Therefore take heed, so that the thing spoken of (CM)in the Prophets may not come upon you:
41'(CN)BEHOLD, YOU SCOFFERS, AND MARVEL, AND PERISH;
FOR I AM ACCOMPLISHING A WORK IN YOUR DAYS,
A WORK WHICH YOU WILL NEVER BELIEVE, THOUGH SOMEONE SHOULD DESCRIBE IT TO YOU.'"

42As Paul and Barnabas were going out, the people kept begging that these things might be spoken to them the next (CO)Sabbath.

43Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and of the (CP)God-fearing (CQ)proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were urging them to continue in (CR)the grace of God.

I am hereby making it my mission on USMessageboards to ensure that the truth be made clear..

 

[Smartt33]

Hi Hawk:

Terral, how can you expect anyone to take you seriously with that ridiculous signature?

I do not expect anyone here confused to 'heed' a single word of my testimony (#1-10). Acts 13:41.

GL,

Terral

Yes- and so that nothing here is misconstrued, as many trinitarians do enjoy spinning the facts-


Acts 13
30"But God (BW)raised Him from the dead;

31and for many days (BX)He appeared to those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, the very ones who are now (BY)His witnesses to the people.

32"And we (BZ)preach to you the good news of (CA)the promise made to the fathers,

33that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He (CB)raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, '(CC)YOU ARE MY SON; TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU.'

34"As for the fact that He (CD)raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to decay, He has spoken in this way: '(CE)I WILL GIVE YOU THE HOLY and SURE blessings OF DAVID.'

35"Therefore He also says in another Psalm, '(CF)YOU WILL NOT ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.'

36"For (CG)David, after he had served (CH)the purpose of God in his own generation, (CI)fell asleep, and was laid among his fathers and underwent decay;

37but He whom God (CJ)raised did not undergo decay.

38"Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that (CK)through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

39and through Him (CL)everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

40"Therefore take heed, so that the thing spoken of (CM)in the Prophets may not come upon you:
41'(CN)BEHOLD, YOU SCOFFERS, AND MARVEL, AND PERISH;
FOR I AM ACCOMPLISHING A WORK IN YOUR DAYS,
A WORK WHICH YOU WILL NEVER BELIEVE, THOUGH SOMEONE SHOULD DESCRIBE IT TO YOU.'"

42As Paul and Barnabas were going out, the people kept begging that these things might be spoken to them the next (CO)Sabbath.

43Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and of the (CP)God-fearing (CQ)proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were urging them to continue in (CR)the grace of God.

I am hereby making it my mission on USMessageboards to ensure that the truth be made clear..

No spin here. When there is no spin, there is no response. Cool.

1. I have asked what difference does it make if one believes in the trinity or not. However, no one can seem to answer that.
2. There arearguments against the trinity, if someone is going to argue against it, they must be able to explain the trinity that they are arguing against, can you do that?
3. There are arguments for the trinity, can someone please define it is a way that it can be understood without faith?
4. How does someone believing in the trinity effect those who don't?
5. How does someone who diesn't believe in the trinity effect those who don't?

For me to enter this discussion, I believe all of these questions need to be answered. Otherwise, there is not a real argument at all, as I see it.

Arguing to the wind is such a waiste.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Whether one believes in the Trinity, the Unity, or a Polytheism makes no difference. God remains God, regardless what sectarians want to call or define God, in my personal opinion.

 

[JD_2B]

No spin here. When there is no spin, there is no response. Cool.

1. I have asked what difference does it make if one believes in the trinity or not. However, no one can seem to answer that.

God says in the bible that there is only one God. If there is only one, then it is blasphemous and going against commandment to worship three.

2. There are arguments against the trinity, if someone is going to argue against it, they must be able to explain the trinity that they are arguing against, can you do that?

Somewhat.. I do understand the spirit of the contrived trinity. They believe (to put it simply) that Jesus is a manifestation of God turning himself into human flesh, and that the Holy Spirit is also God, as well. They worship Jesus as if Jesus is God. Jesus is not YET God. Jesus is to BE made God, later on.. this is something that trinitarians do not believe. Generally, having to explain something in great detail without verse (also needing to be explained and spun) to back it up, is just a false teaching.

3. There are arguments for the trinity, can someone please define it is a way that it can be understood without faith?

People think that a trinity (Father son and Holy Spirit) exists based on there being three mentioned in the bible commonly. However, Jesus was not the only one to perform miracles or counsel and teach. Much of this is based on the fact that Jesus says in certain verses "The Father and I are one" (actually meaning they are united in effort, not one and the same) and in spite of the fact that Jesus tells us to be "one" with God, and "one" with each other. They also argue for the times when Jesus says "he is in me and I am in him", while they skip the parts within the same chapter or sentence even, that also say "he is in you and you are in him" Anyhoo its all contrived and far too much to explain in full detail, but those are their basis' for the philosophy of the trinity.

4. How does someone believing in the trinity effect those who don't?

It doesn't, really- it makes us sad, and pray for those who believe false teachings, especially when they do not seek out truth for their own relationships with God. We who believe Jesus, believe in the truth, and we want to teach believers in God that they have been mislead, so as to help them avoid a bad judgment.

5. How does someone who diesn't believe in the trinity effect those who don't?

Umm its pretty much the same either way. Both sides are in opposition.. One side (trinity side, as you can plainly see) seeks to damage and destruct, though, rather than instruct and construct, the way Unitarians like ME do.. =)

For me to enter this discussion, I believe all of these questions need to be answered. Otherwise, there is not a real argument at all, as I see it.

Arguing to the wind is such a waiste.

You are very welcome to join!! I am hoping this will turn into a good solid bible study for us all. I also hope that this forum will help you to know God's love and devotion to us and to YOU. He loves you.. I think you know that, of course, or you wouldn't have come here. He is calling to you.. Time to listen up.. ;-)

 

[Care4all]

People think that a trinity (Father son and Holy Spirit) exists based on there being three mentioned in the bible commonly. However, Jesus was not the only one to perform miracles or counsel and teach. Much of this is based on the fact that Jesus says in certain verses "The Father and I are one" (actually meaning they are united in effort, not one and the same) and in spite of the fact that Jesus tells us to be "one" with God, and "one" with each other. They also argue for the times when Jesus says "he is in me and I am in him", while they skip the parts within the same chapter or sentence even, that also say "he is in you and you are in him" Anyhoo its all contrived and far too much to explain in full detail, but those are their basis' for the philosophy of the trinity.

jd

WHERE in scripture does it say that I am in God.....NO WHERE that i have seen...

and THAT'S the part that you rely on for your opinion on this...? This is where Jesus is different than us...He is in God, therefore He is God....

The Bible DOES NOT SAY that you and I are in the making of God, it says that God is in the making of us....but with Jesus it says that God is in the making and fabric of Jesus just as with us, but it also STATES that Jesus is in the making.... the very fabric, of God....thus is God.

We do not believe in 3 God's...we do not blaspheme God....we believe He has 3 natures, ONE IN BEING with God

And this is NOT the only circumstance in the Bible telling us such things...

You may think that you've got it right here and your doctrine is correct....but I believe what you believe is false doctrine, not the other way around, based on the Bible...not some doctrine that a bunch of religious christians decided on....but because this is how I read and have come to understand the Bible and the Words in IT.

I have no ill feelings regarding your stance on this and your belief in the doctrine of your Church because I believe that you honestly have come to this belief, whether it be wrong or end up being right in the end...I do not believe that ones salvation will be attained on how either of us believe, regarding this issue.

God Bless

Care

 

[JakeStarkey]

Care, I agree that this issue is not one of salvation.

 

[JD_2B]

People think that a trinity (Father son and Holy Spirit) exists based on there being three mentioned in the bible commonly. However, Jesus was not the only one to perform miracles or counsel and teach. Much of this is based on the fact that Jesus says in certain verses "The Father and I are one" (actually meaning they are united in effort, not one and the same) and in spite of the fact that Jesus tells us to be "one" with God, and "one" with each other. They also argue for the times when Jesus says "he is in me and I am in him", while they skip the parts within the same chapter or sentence even, that also say "he is in you and you are in him" Anyhoo its all contrived and far too much to explain in full detail, but those are their basis' for the philosophy of the trinity.

jd

WHERE in scripture does it say that I am in God.....NO WHERE that i have seen...

Oh it does.. I have even quoted the verses on here..

and THAT'S the part that you rely on for your opinion on this...? This is where Jesus is different than us...He is in God, therefore He is God....

John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

And no that is not the only verse. Please go back through the thread, and do not make me to have to repost all of the COUNTLESS verses I have posted for your benefit. God and Jesus are not the "one" God.. They are Father and son- God and honored savior. Not the same, not having the same power, and not both deserving of worship. Only God himself should be worshipped.. Humans should not be.

The way trinitarians call the "light" to be some type of entity or other name for a Deity, is absolutely wrong. The answers are in John. Study this book!!!

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.

The Bible DOES NOT SAY that you and I are in the making of God, it says that God is in the making of us....but with Jesus it says that God is in the making and fabric of Jesus just as with us, but it also STATES that Jesus is in the making.... the very fabric, of God....thus is God.

Nooo.. I didn't say we are in the making of God. The bible does say that Jesus is in God, and God in Jesus..and that the holy spirit is in us too and we in it..

Anyhoo-That is not what these verses are saying. Not that Jesus was God. Anyways, if you want to apply light loosely to Jesus, you could then say that Jesus was the very first thing created "Let there be light".. However, It still indicates that Jesus was created, and although it says that the two were together, and that everything was created through Jesus, It does not mean that Jesus created anything at all, on purpose,and certainly does not somehow equate to Jesus being God also.

We do not believe in 3 God's...we do not blaspheme God....we believe He has 3 natures, ONE IN BEING with the God

Can you go into more detail about this? I DO understand how you believe this.. I DO understand the concept, fully, now.. (only now do I really understand it.. after looking at a bunch of verses that do not make a hill of beans of sense to anyones theories, of course, lol)

And this is NOT the only circumstance in the Bible telling us such things...

Well, I am just asking you to give me more details on this. I have never been shown this before.. I only have heard about it and thought it nonsense. I am starting to see.. I see verses that disparage my beliefs.. I mean.. I SEE... and thirst...

You may think that you've got it right here and your doctrine is correct....but I believe what you believe is false doctrine, not the other way around, based on the Bible...not some doctrine that a bunch of religious christians decided on....but because this is how I read and have come to understand the Bible and the Words in IT.

I have no ill feelings regarding your stance on this and your belief in the doctrine of your Church because I believe that you honestly have come to this belief, whether it be wrong or end up being right in the end...I do not believe that ones salvation will be attained on how either of us believe, regarding this issue.

God Bless

Care

I don't know whose doctrine is correct.. I want to understand the truth. Belief is just belief until we get a different perspective that gives a deeper meaning, a more solid truth.

I do not absolutely believe Jesus is God, but after you said what you just did about not believing in 3 Gods as one but as it being three natures of one God.. that is okay to me. That is fine, and that makes everything make a whole lot more sense. Maybe Jesus is a "nature" of God..

But still.. Why would Jesus pray to "his Father"- ever? The three natures of God cannot communicate and understand each other through mere thought? This is the part that brings me to a screeching halt of believing this is truth. Explain, that is all. I thirst. Quench me, baby!!! =)

 

[Sky Dancer]

Oneness is not a divine sharing of an entity, but the divine sharing of a common cause, something that Jesus wished upon all of us to have. We, the children of God, can be ONE with God, just like Jesus was ONE with God. Being one with God or each other does not make us suddenly become God or each other. It makes us united in God-like justice, love, and reform.

What about 'I and the Father are one?'

Same as "He is in me, and I am in him, and he is in you, etc etc etc".. Jesus makes several references to oneness that include all of the people uniting together as one.

It is not a literal term meaning "We are one and the same entity" - it simply means they are united. There is also talk of the bridegroom and such. It is like a marriage. God's son is married to God's plan. We should also be "one" with God, just like Jesus.

WWJD? Be one. And tell us to be one with each other, and with God, as well. That is not telling us to become each other, or to manifest ourselves into becoming God. Its a unity thing.

Oneness, inseparability, indvisiibility, and all pervasiveness are buddhist principles too. So are the three aspects of 'that- what- cannot- be imagined- or described'. In the Christian tradition these are referred to as the Trinity. In the buddhist tradtion they would be called the three kayas.

This is the mystical teachings of Jesus you point out, not the literal word meaning. Symbolic, allegorical, methaphorical meaning.

When a devotee of Christianity understands Christ's teachings on this level there is a natural way that other paths seem to converge.

 

[amrchaos]

Amrchaos--armchair theology course presents
"Is christianity polytheistic or Monotheistic?"



Well actually, folks I do not know. But if you take the concept that Jesus, his father, and the holy spirit are seperate entities, then the answer should be yes. If they are one, the answer is no.

But seriously, the reason this question is posed is because of the Jews and several "Gentile Prophets"!!

Jews are monotheistic spiritual people that laughed and scorned religions that composed multipe gods!! They asked the Hellenics, the Romans, The Egyptians, and the Assyrians "How do you know who to pray to? How do you keep them happy? Why is it they must do what you asked them to--are not you supposed to confirm to their will"?

Since no one liked to be laughed at, they began the searched for monotheism. First they stole the Jews religion, then they rewrote their books to add to the Jewish holy book, and created a new religion. Unfortunately, some of the "Gentile Prophets" did not understand the purpose of monotheism and introduced concepts of Polytheism, such as the trinity and the use of saints, to the religion. Thus the question, is Christianity a monotheistic or polytheistic religion?

The question you need to ask, how many "Entities" are worthy of reverance? one--you are a monotheist. more than one--the you are a polytheists.

This ends American chaos "armchair theology" Come again, thank you!!

 

[Care4all]

Amrchaos--armchair theology course presents
"Is christianity polytheistic or Monotheistic?"



Well actually, folks I do not know. But if you take the concept that Jesus, his father, and the holy spirit are seperate entities, then the answer should be yes. If they are one, the answer is no.

But seriously, the reason this question is posed is because of the Jews and several "Gentile Prophets"!!

Jews are monotheistic spiritual people that laughed and scorned religions that composed multipe gods!! They asked the Hellenics, the Romans, The Egyptians, and the Assyrians "How do you know who to pray to? How do you keep them happy? Why is it they must do what you asked them to--are not you supposed to confirm to their will"?

Since no one liked to be laughed at, they began the searched for monotheism. First they stole the Jews religion, then they rewrote their books to add to the Jewish holy book, and created a new religion. Unfortunately, some of the "Gentile Prophets" did not understand the purpose of monotheism and introduced concepts of Polytheism, such as the trinity and the use of saints, to the religion. Thus the question, is Christianity a monotheistic or polytheistic religion?

The question you need to ask, how many "Entities" are worthy of reverance? one--you are a monotheist. more than one--the you are a polytheists.

This ends American chaos "armchair theology" Come again, thank you!!

nope.

i can assure you, those who believe in the trinity DO NOT WORSHIP 3 Gods, they believe in one God.

care