Jesus- Son of God. No trinity! Read first.

[xotoxi]

Does anyone have a good picture of Jesus?

 

[xotoxi]

And no, I do not expect a single soul here confused to understand a single word ...

Correct. That is because...

 

[xsited1]

Does anyone have a good picture of Jesus?

 

[xotoxi]

Does anyone have a good picture of Jesus?

 

[xotoxi]

Does anyone have a good picture of Jesus?

 

[The_Halfmoon]

I have never felt the trinity ought to be a major part of christianity... if it ain't in the book, it ain't in the book.

 

[Smartt33]

this is Jesus speaking...

“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty” (Revelation 1:8).

Saying someone is Alpha and Omega, does mean something- He is the beginning of the new covenant. The end of Adam's sins having to end in our eternal death. "Alpha" means "beginning" and "omega" means end. We all know that GOD has NO beginning or end, so Jesus is again being honest with us. God said he had no beginning and no end. Jesus said he does. So that makes Jesus and God different in a very fundamental way.

He is also saying, "Saith the Lord"- and remember, Jesus is a mere vessel- He became the KING, and therefore the Lord, but that (being the new leader- the king, the Lord) does not make him God, either.

also, why were we commissioned to Baptize?

Matthew 28
The Great Commission
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

This is part of the new covenant. Jesus is the new leader- not the new God, just the son of God, and appointed by him to be the Shepard for us. He says, honestly, "all authority... has been GIVEN to me" - this means he gets to be the leader now. This does not need to be deciphered. =)



This refers to the Word, not Jesus.. The WORD is God. Not Jesus. This is said literally. I love John the baptist because he gave it to us straight- more straight than any of the other disciples did. He gave us MORE information than the other disciples did.



This is still talking literally about God. The word is God. Thats what it says. Literally.



Right, but see, I don't think that this is literally saying that God became Jesus, only that God created a son in his likeness. A new King! That the word became flesh is not literally saying that God became Jesus.. but that God made the Divine Word available through his own offspring.


This is one thing that I find confusing here.. Why would it say "God.. Who is at the fathers side"- I have to think this is not literal, God being "at the right hand side of the father" - instead, I think it just means that God, being our Father, let Jesus be known to us, by working miracles through him.



Yes- Jesus was the new Lord- the new leader, is all. Plenty of leaders were called "Lord" in those days, not just God. And Jesus himself also denied being God. In many verses. I will list these in a follow up post, hopefully before dinner. (I am responding on a Sunday morning).



Right, because literally, Jesus was the son of God, the conveyer of the new covenant, and our spiritual leader.

28This all happened at Bethany on the other side of the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
Jesus the Lamb of God
29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is the one I meant when I said, 'A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' 31I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel."

I do see how this part about "he was before me" can be confusing to so many people. I just do not see how it could be impossible for Jesus to have "been" a spiritual man beside God (at the right hand side of God, as the book says) even during the creation period. However, I think that Jesus was one of the most blessed people to ever walk the planet. Considering the circumstances surrounding his presence, to be a savior, and who his real dad is, I just have to think that Jesus was either with his dad when Dad was creating everything, and, like, shadowing him, to learn, or that this verse is just saying that he has knowledge of everything that was before John, from God, so he has surpassed him in that sense, also.

32Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.' 34I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God."

LOL Well I think that this is another hokey little way of John and Jesus just trying to talk people into accepting Jesus into their society. I think John was a brilliant man, as was Jesus.. so giving them something they can see and touch, helps them to get there and believe in what they see, instead of remaining cynics. Also, John is not saying that the Dove is the Son of God- but that he who the dove lands on is the Son of God.

Also, it should be noted, this verse itself says that Jesus is, in fact, the "Son of God", not God himself.

Thank you for responding, Care4all. I have never believed in a trinity.. Never even heard of any such thing until about 3 or 4 years ago, and have tried to do substantial studies to ensure that my beliefs are correct. Jesus himself says "my words are not my own, but he who sent me." He prays to God many times, also. Why would God pray to himself? Some of it (this trinity stuff) makes no sense at all. There isn't even a word in the bible that says "trinity". You would also think that, as well as Jesus spelled things out to us, that he would specifically say "I AM God. God IS me." instead he said "God is in me and I am in him, and he is in you"- which tells me there is no trinity, that my original beliefs were true. =)

Just one question, if the "Word was God" and the "Word was with God," is that a dynamic duo? It would appear that God was with himself and was Himself just as Jesus said. God is Life, and God is Truth. Jesus also said, "I am the way, the truth and the life..."

 

[Smartt33]

OK, if that is true, then you should not have a hard time telling us just how the doctrine of the trinity changes anything (makes a difference) about salvation, God's Creation, His plan for eternity, the return of Christ, Heaven and Hell, and the Christian life.

I would just like to see these anyway. I personmally am not sure that having the doctrine of trinity or not changes anything about what the Bible says about anything. No one understands the trinity enough to explain it anyway.

Just a thought though:

Jesus used the words, "I am He," when a question about his being God, or the Father.

He did not say that.. He said He is IN me and I am in him, and He is in you.

God is Messiah.
...unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder...and his name shall be called... The mighty God, The everlasting Father... Isaiah 9:6
Jesus is Messiah.
The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he. John 4:25-26

 

[Care4all]

Does anyone have a good picture of Jesus?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbaVUClpPUQ]YouTube - Too Much Heaven - Bee Gees[/ame]

 

[Care4all]

36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? 37Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." 39Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

the father is in me AND I AM IN THE FATHER....is what sets Jesus apart and to me shows that he is one and the same as the God....JD

 

[dilloduck]

38But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles

my personal fave

 

[Care4all]

Jd, I am going to answer your comments one at a time so that the post does not get too long to follow:

Saying someone is Alpha and Omega, does mean something- He is the beginning of the new covenant. The end of Adam's sins having to end in our eternal death. "Alpha" means "beginning" and "omega" means end. We all know that GOD has NO beginning or end, so Jesus is again being honest with us. God said he had no beginning and no end. Jesus said he does. So that makes Jesus and God different in a very fundamental way.

He is also saying, "Saith the Lord"- and remember, Jesus is a mere vessel- He became the KING, and therefore the Lord, but that (being the new leader- the king, the Lord) does not make him God, either.

in Christianity, the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet, used to designate the comprehensiveness of God, implying that God includes all that can be. In the New Testament Revelation to John, the term is used as the self-designation of God and of Christ.

The reference in Revelation likely had a Jewish origin, based on such Old Testament passages as:

Isa. 44:6 (“I am the first and the last&#8221,

and Ps. 90:2 (“from everlasting to everlasting thou art God&#8221.

Also, the "Covenant" was with God in both the old testament, and also with God in the New testament.

In rabbinic literature, the word emet (“truth&#8221, composed of the first and last letters of the Hebrew alphabet, is “the seal of God,” and in Judaic tradition it carries somewhat the same connotation as Alpha and Omega.

 

[Care4all]

This is part of the new covenant. Jesus is the new leader- not the new God, just the son of God, and appointed by him to be the Shepard for us. He says, honestly, "all authority... has been GIVEN to me" - this means he gets to be the leader now. This does not need to be deciphered. =)

No Jd, I do not see it as it just being a new covenant with a MERE MAN...the covenant is with God...God the Father, God the Holy spirit and God the son.... all in being with the Father, God of God, Light of light, true God of true god

We have been told we are all Son's of God, as the Bible tells us...Jesus, the Christ, was much more than such...Moses could not die for your sins, nor could Abraham or Mohamed for that matter...the Bible is very specific....imo, in setting Jesus on the level of God or as being God made flesh as the Bible states.

Also, sending the apostles out to Baptize in the Name of the Father and the son and the holy spirit puts them as one and the same, the new covenant with GOD... ONE GOD not God and something called the holy spirit and someone called jesus...

 

[Care4all]

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God, and the word WAS GOD, and the Word was made FLESH...

JD, I don't think any of what you have said on this explains away that Jesus is not God made flesh.

Nor does it explain away that God, as the Holy Spirit, impregnated Mary with Christ.

Is the Holy Spirit not God either to you? What is the Holy Spirit to you?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Is it possible the Trinity refers to three inseparable aspects of consciousness--that which cannot be imagined or described-- and that they are 'conveniently' labeled; Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

 

[Care4all]

Is it possible the Trinity refers to three inseparable aspects of consciousness--that which cannot be imagined or described-- and that they are 'conveniently' labeled; Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

hey sky dancer!

Yes, I believe that is precisely what is being described.

 

[dilloduck]

Is it possible the Trinity refers to three inseparable aspects of consciousness--that which cannot be imagined or described-- and that they are 'conveniently' labeled; Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

Certainly---the conveyor/s of this message knew their audience well

 

[Big Black Dog]

Say what you will. Your mind and heart is already stone. I believe in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

 

[Terral]

Hi JD:

I find the bible (not requiring complex graphics and any further explanation for a lateral thinking person to understand) much easier to understand, but I do appreciate your efforts.

However, JD still does 'not' even begin to understand The Differences Between The Only True God 'and' My Father Who Is IN HEAVEN (my Topic).

The future will find the distinction 'very' important indeed . . .

GL,

Terral

 

[theHawk]

I have never felt the trinity ought to be a major part of christianity... if it ain't in the book, it ain't in the book.

"Trinity" is just a modern word to describe the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit - all of which were in the Bible.

I never heard of a Christian say that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit aren't a "major part" of Christianity.