Do you believe in the virgin birth of Jesus?

[sky dancer]

no, most Christians believe Jesus IS God, not a separate being but a manifestation of God, in the form of man.

We believe that we will be inseparable from God when we pass on in to the next life. We don't see this as being God ourselves...Jesus was God, in the form of man....

if we believed that jesus was a separate entity or the Holy Spirit was a separate entity and continued to reverence or worship them....that would be Blasphemy....but because He is God made man, then we are only worshiping the Triune God, the Trinity.....one God, 3 manifestations of HIM.....


care

So, you can only be inseparable with God when you die? If God is all there is, why do you Christians think you are separate from God?


Didn't Jesus die and be resurrected so that he could show that he was God and man--to show the potential of every human being? Did I miss something?

Did he not say "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, I and the Father are One?"

 

[Modbert]

Jesus did not encourage slavery. Slavery in Jesus' time had a whole different connotation. Slaves actually had rights, and could own their own fortunes. They were not required to serve for their entire lives, and could seek resistitution for damages down to them.

I do have direct verses for my own points, and I post them continually. Have you asked me for one I didn't provide? Ask away. But you are making false claims about the bible, and your inability and unwillingness to find scripture to back up your claims show you up, as I stated already.

And yes, I made my point succinctly. That you are unable to come up with anything better than "well just because the bible says it doesn't make it true" has nothing whatsoever with the original line of discussion and your question, which was...if we are made in his image, how come we aren't perfect?

I answered that question and your lame reply in no way negates it. You're simply throwing stuff out there to give you an opportunity to pop off with your ridiculous theories, which have nothing to do with fact or even the Bible and are based solely on your own emotions and lack of information about the subject.

I'm giving you the answers. Whether you want to believe they're true or not is immaterial to the questions you're asking. I can tell you specifically that Jesus did not support any particular government, other than the government of faithful communities among their brethren. He did not advocate for slavery. And the bible is specific that he was perfect, he is the son of God and also God in flesh, and that when we die we will not attain "godness" but simply a more perfection version of ourselves and the presence of God.

If you dispute those facts are supported by the bible, by all means provide the verses which put the lie to them. Otherwise, identify your ridiculous comments as simply being your opinion, instead of presenting them as biblical fact, which they most certainly are not.

First off, I never said Jesus supported any particular government.

The bible was wrong if they said that Jesus was perfect, and it must be a little odd to refer to yourself as the Son of yourself huh?

New Testament Quotes on Slavery:

Obey your earthly masters. Doesn't sound like he is condemning Slavery to me.

Ephesians 6:5 NLT: Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.

Here is Jesus once again not condemning Slavery. He talks about what Care does; work extra harder but not because what she said. Here it's because you are HELPING ANOTHER BELIEVER BY YOUR EFFORTS.

1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT: Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.

Here, Jesus is saying that "people who are not award that they are doing, will be punished only lightly." Now, unless I'm reading that wrong then Jesus is stating that people who have no idea that they are doing something wrong should be punished anyway.

Luke 12:47-48 NLT: The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given."

 

[AllieBaba]

"You failed to disprove my points that he wasn't a Socialist or supported Slavery. At the very least, he failed to condemn Slavery which in itself is supporting Slavery." RS

No, you failed to prove them.
THe onus is not on me to prove a negative. It's on you for making the idiotic claim to begin with.

So go ahead and prove it.

But it's sort of funny..first you said it, then you said you never said it, and now you're claiming the comments as "points".

Slavery was an accepted and common thing in those days. Jews set their free every so many years. Slaves were the equivalent of the working class today, as I said (and you ignored) they had rights, privileges and legal support if they needed it.

 

[AllieBaba]

First off, I never said Jesus supported any particular government.

The bible was wrong if they said that Jesus was perfect, and it must be a little odd to refer to yourself as the Son of yourself huh?

New Testament Quotes on Slavery:

Obey your earthly masters. Doesn't sound like he is condemning Slavery to me.



Here is Jesus once again not condemning Slavery. He talks about what Care does; work extra harder but not because what she said. Here it's because you are HELPING ANOTHER BELIEVER BY YOUR EFFORTS.



Here, Jesus is saying that "people who are not award that they are doing, will be punished only lightly." Now, unless I'm reading that wrong then Jesus is stating that people who have no idea that they are doing something wrong should be punished anyway.

Once again....more slowly....slaves were a different genre then. Those words are not meant for children in the slave trade today. They are meant for the working class of people who are plodding along in jobs they may or may not like, and is advice on how to get along with the person who pays your check.

Though this is actually a good illustration of Jesus not having an political agenda.

 

[ABikerSailor]

If God approved slavery (and, you've said that Jesus was God), then can you please explain to me WHY the Jews were led out of slavery by Moses?

How about Abraham Lincoln speaking out against it?

Both men were strongly influenced by God.

Nope......no justification for slavery. What part of self-will and self-determination in accordance with God's Will do you keep missing Always A Bitch?

 

[Modbert]

"You failed to disprove my points that he wasn't a Socialist or supported Slavery. At the very least, he failed to condemn Slavery which in itself is supporting Slavery." RS

No, you failed to prove them.
THe onus is not on me to prove a negative. It's on you for making the idiotic claim to begin with.

So go ahead and prove it.

But it's sort of funny..first you said it, then you said you never said it, and now you're claiming the comments as "points".

Slavery was an accepted and common thing in those days. Jews set their free every so many years. Slaves were the equivalent of the working class today, as I said (and you ignored) they had rights, privileges and legal support if they needed it.

I proved them, you just fail to read my arguments.

The working class back then was the working class. But hey, good job trying to defend Slavery in the bible. I understand at this point you've gone from "It's not being encouraged" to "It's in there but it was alright!".

Jews and Christians = Two different religions.

Slaves were the equivalent of..well slaves today.

Besides, if Jesus Christ (Son of God, God himself, whatever) is PERFECT and knew that Slavery was wrong then why not outright condemn the ownership of one man by another? That's not treating your fellow man as you'd want to be treated.

 

[AllieBaba]

Omg. I can't believe I wasted this much time on you. How old are you? Are you one of the really young kids we have lurking around?

 

[sky dancer]

Why would any Christian say that God supports slavery?

 

[Modbert]

Once again....more slowly....slaves were a different genre then. Those words are not meant for children in the slave trade today. They are meant for the working class of people who are plodding along in jobs they may or may not like, and is advice on how to get along with the person who pays your check.

Though this is actually a good illustration of Jesus not having an political agenda.

If they were meant for the working class of the people then why not simply say working class? Why say slaves?

And to shut up the myth once and for all that "Slaves had rights and such".

Slaves and Servants in the Time of Jesus :: American Bible Society

In the time of Jesus, some people were slaves because they were born to slave parents. Others were captured in war and were forced to become slaves.

But slaves had no freedom, and their owners could do with them whatever they wanted, including selling them to someone else. After slaves became 30 years old, many would become “freedmen,” with duties to the former master and his family.

Now, I realize as stated in that article that you will no doubt quote that slaves had a higher living sometimes then the poor and slaves of RICH masters had all kind of opportunities they would of never had on their own. Plus, some could buy their freedom.

However, don't bullshit me in saying:

Slaves were the equivalent of the working class today, as I said (and you ignored) they had rights, privileges and legal support if they needed it.

But hey, what does that source know? That's only the AMERICAN BIBLE SOCIETY WEBSITE. What you gonna tell me next Allie? It's a leftist site?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Why would any Christian say that God supports slavery?

Because they are trying to justify their own fucked up views of what God does and doesn't approve of.

God DOES NOT SUPPORT SLAVERY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone that says otherwise is a brain dead moron with a lobotomy, who thinks like an idiot.

Wait.......that's Allie!

 

[sky dancer]

What does slavery have to do with whether Mary, the mother of Jesus was a virgin?

I just don't know since Jesus was the son of God why he chose a womb birth? Why not just appear on a lotus or something?

 

[sky dancer]

Because they are trying to justify their own fucked up views of what God does and doesn't approve of.

God DOES NOT SUPPORT SLAVERY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone that says otherwise is a brain dead moron with a lobotomy, who thinks like an idiot.

Wait.......that's Allie!

There are scriptures with references to slavery, I just don't know why Christians would want to 'own' them?

 

[Care4all]

So, you can only be inseparable with God when you die? If God is all there is, why do you Christians think you are separate from God? we are separated from God, the Father figure....jesus and the holy spirit dwells with us on earth...


Didn't Jesus die and be resurrected so that he could show that he was God and man--to show the potential of every human being? Did I miss something?

Jesus died for us, He was our required for purity or for forgiveness of sins (via Judaism), white as snow, sacrificial Lamb. He rose from the Dead to be united with God the father again....Him rising from the dead was not to show them he was God or the Christ, the Messiah....they knew he was such, by the time he was crucified.

Did he not say "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, I and the Father are One?"

yes! He and the father are one in being...He came to show us the way to the father in heaven is thru him, belief in his death as our lamb and his one in being with the father would bring us to the ''other side'' and in to the Father's house....is my understanding of it...

 

[AllieBaba]

What does slavery have to do with whether Mary, the mother of Jesus was a virgin?

I just don't know since Jesus was the son of God why he chose a womb birth? Why not just appear on a lotus or something?

Because then he wouldn't be a man, and couldn't act as an example of all that a man could be.

Also because if he appeared on a lotus he wouldn't be fulfilling prophecy.

 

[ABikerSailor]

What does slavery have to do with whether Mary, the mother of Jesus was a virgin?

I just don't know since Jesus was the son of God why he chose a womb birth? Why not just appear on a lotus or something?

What does slavery have to do with anything on this thread? Nothing. Always A Bitch is trying to cloud the issue again.

Why did He choose a womb birth? Well......from all the stuff that I've read and studied over the years, I think that the reason that God sent Jesus to be born and live as a man, was because God wanted Jesus to have a full human experience, so that He (God) could communicate better with all of mankind.

Might be one of the reasons that Jesus said nobody was allowed to go to the Father except by Him.

 

[Modbert]

Omg. I can't believe I wasted this much time on you. How old are you? Are you one of the really young kids we have lurking around?

I'll be awaiting to your response in refuting what the American Bible Society has to say. Which is what I'm saying and what you're saying is wrong.

 

[sky dancer]

yes! He and the father are one in being...He came to show us the way to the father in heaven is thru him, belief in his death as our lamb and his one in being with the father would bring us to the ''other side'' and in to the Father's house....is my understanding of it...

Isn't all of life one with God? The part of your post that makes sense to me is that Jesus came to show the way to God--by being inseparable from him. He said that what he accomplished, those who followed his example could be 'greater than he'. So if Jesus and God were One, and Jesus says follow me, do as I do and you will accomplish more. What could be greater than being one with God?

I think Jesus died and was resurrected to show he had attained the state of deathlessness, and that all human beings are capable of attaining that state.

I think Jesus attained the rainbow body. His body dissolved into light. Buddhist masters of meditation have also accomplished rainbow body.

 

[AllieBaba]

If they were meant for the working class of the people then why not simply say working class? Why say slaves?

And to shut up the myth once and for all that "Slaves had rights and such".

Slaves and Servants in the Time of Jesus :: American Bible Society



Now, I realize as stated in that article that you will no doubt quote that slaves had a higher living sometimes then the poor and slaves of RICH masters had all kind of opportunities they would of never had on their own. Plus, some could buy their freedom.

However, don't bullshit me in saying:



But hey, what does that source know? That's only the AMERICAN BIBLE SOCIETY WEBSITE. What you gonna tell me next Allie? It's a leftist site?

From that same source, the American Bible Website:

"Some people actually sold themselves as slaves because they could have a higher standard of life as a slave than if they had to keep struggling to find housing or food on their own.
Some slaves were better educated than their masters and served as teachers of their master’s children. Slaves of rich masters had all kinds of opportunities that they would never have had on their own. ... After slaves became 30 years old, many would become “freedmen,” with duties to the former master and his family. Some slaves earned enough money to buy their own freedom, which would mean that their children could be free also."

So my point is (again) proven. The term "slave" did not have the same connotations then as today.
Slaves and Servants in the Time of Jesus :: American Bible Society

And here is where Jesus said he was God:
"Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves." John 14:11 (NIV)

 

[sky dancer]

Brother David Steindl-Rast, a Benedictine monk, proposed investigating the "rainbow body," a phenomenon in which the corpses of highly developed spiritual individuals reputedly vanish within days of death, he received an enthusiastic response from Marilyn Schlitz, IONS's director of research.


"Through his Swiss contact, Tiso received the name of the monk whose body had vanished after his death: Khenpo A-chos, a Gelugpa monk from Kham, Tibet, who died in 1998. Tiso was able to locate the village, situated in a remote area where Khenpo A-chos had his hermitage. He then went to the village and conducted taped interviews with eyewitnesses to Khenpo A-chos' death. He also spoke to many people who had known him.

"This was a very interesting man, aside from the way he died," observes Tiso. "Everyone mentioned his faithfulness to his vows, his purity of life, and how he often spoke of the importance of cultivating compassion. He had the ability to teach even the roughest and toughest of types how to be a little gentler, a little more mindful. To be in the man's presence changed people."

Tiso interviewed Lama Norta, a nephew of Khenpo Achos; Lama Sonam Gyamtso, a young disciple; and Lama A-chos, a dharma friend of the late Khenpo A-chos. They described the following:

A few days before Khenpo A-chos died, a rainbow appeared directly above his hut. After he died, there were dozens of rainbows in the sky. Khenpo A-chos died lying on his right side. He wasn't sick; there appeared to be nothing wrong with him, and he was reciting the mantra OM MANI PADME HUM over and over. According to the eyewitnesses, after his breath stopped his flesh became kind of pinkish. One person said it turned brilliant white. All said it started to shine.

Lama A-chos suggested wrapping his friend's body in a yellow robe, the type all Gelug monks wear. As the days passed, they maintained they could see, through the robe, that his bones and his body were shrinking. They also heard beautiful, mysterious music coming from the sky, and they smelled perfume.

After seven days, they removed the yellow cloth, and no body remained. Lama Norta and a few other individuals claimed that after his death Khenpo A-chos appeared to them in visions and dreams."

Snow Lion Publications

 

[Care4all]

Robert....for you, since you said that Jesus did not proclaim to be God in the Bible.

Many verses in Isaiah, John, the epistles, and Revelation imply support for the doctrine that Jesus Christ is God and the closely related concept of the Trinity. The Gospel of John in particular supports Jesus' divinity. This is a partial list of supporting Bible verses:

* Isaiah 9:6 "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

* John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." together with John 1:14 "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." and John 1:18 "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known."[26]The Bible says "God the One and Only" in NIV.

* John 5:21 "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it."

* John 8:23–24: "But he continued,'You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins.'"

* John 8:58 "I tell you the truth", Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

* John 10:30: "I and the Father are one."

* John 10:38: "But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."

* John 12:41: "Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him."—As the context shows, this implied the Tetragrammaton in Isaiah 6:10 refers to Jesus.

* John 20:28: "Thomas said to him, 'My Lord and my God!'" Due to the strict laws of Moses concerning blasphemy, Jesus and all of the apostles in the room were obligated to put Thomas to death for the blasphemy of calling a man God, unless that man truly was God. Jesus was similarly prohibited from receiving the worship of men as God, unless he was God. Thus the response of Jesus and others in the room indicates that all of them believed Jesus to be God, not only Thomas.

* Matthew 28:17: "When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some were doubtful." Under the Laws of Moses, no man could allow others to worship him as God - this being considered blasphemous. Jesus allowed his followers to worship him, indicating that Jesus believed himself to be God.

These are only a few passages that supports Jesus as God made man....