Do you believe in the virgin birth of Jesus?

[sky dancer]

"Yellow dog" reference is from "Funny Farm", a Chevy CHase movie which is, incidentally, hilarious.

Don't bore me with pulling me into a nonsensical discussion of why I use the word "Gay" for GayBiker.
And I've never once said God condones slavery, or that I wanted him to. That's what the other side is saying. Maybe you don't read closely enough or need glasses.

I asked a honest question, about why you use the term 'gay' as an insult. You know the poster Rob is not gay. Why do you use that word to insult him? Does anyone use the term 'straight' to insult you?

The Bible has been misused to justify slavery. You continue to do the same.

 

[Sunni Man]

"Straight" has Never been an insult

"Gay" has Always been a insult

 

[AllieBaba]

I asked a honest question, about why you use the term 'gay' as an insult. You know the poster Rob is not gay. Why do you use that word to insult him? Does anyone use the term 'straight' to insult you?

The Bible has been misused to justify slavery. You continue to do the same.

Good lord, at least he has the excuse of being young. And I never called RS gay, idiot. It's a fond nickname I have for Biker Sailor Dude.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Robert....for you, since you said that Jesus did not proclaim to be God in the Bible.

Many verses in Isaiah, John, the epistles, and Revelation imply support for the doctrine that Jesus Christ is God and the closely related concept of the Trinity. The Gospel of John in particular supports Jesus' divinity. This is a partial list of supporting Bible verses:

* Isaiah 9:6 "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

* John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." together with John 1:14 "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." and John 1:18 "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known."[26]The Bible says "God the One and Only" in NIV.

* John 5:21 "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it."

* John 8:23–24: "But he continued,'You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins.'"

* John 8:58 "I tell you the truth", Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

* John 10:30: "I and the Father are one."

* John 10:38: "But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."

* John 12:41: "Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him."—As the context shows, this implied the Tetragrammaton in Isaiah 6:10 refers to Jesus.

* John 20:28: "Thomas said to him, 'My Lord and my God!'" Due to the strict laws of Moses concerning blasphemy, Jesus and all of the apostles in the room were obligated to put Thomas to death for the blasphemy of calling a man God, unless that man truly was God. Jesus was similarly prohibited from receiving the worship of men as God, unless he was God. Thus the response of Jesus and others in the room indicates that all of them believed Jesus to be God, not only Thomas.

* Matthew 28:17: "When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some were doubtful." Under the Laws of Moses, no man could allow others to worship him as God - this being considered blasphemous. Jesus allowed his followers to worship him, indicating that Jesus believed himself to be God.

These are only a few passages that supports Jesus as God made man....

And yet Jesus CLEARLY STATES in John he is NOT God. Your passages do not mean what you claim they mean.

 

[AllieBaba]

Lol.
He's God...and God's son.

That's a theological disagreement that won't be settled until we're in heaven.

 

[Care4all]

There are several verses from the Bible on slavery, even by Jesus; not just that one. Sure, being kind in every manner,etc might one up them but it does not make their life any better. Obviously most slave masters did not feel bad considering the fact they owned slaves until they died. We would still have slavery today in some form in the United States if not for the law.

What it comes down to with the bible is the way we find all the meaning in it. The way you look at it and I look at it could be two different things.

However, that does not mean that Jesus condemned slavery; just merely told the slaves to turn the other cheek to it. I'm sorry, but if a man told me that by being good to a slaveowner will help convert them to see your side and then you'll be free is bullshit when applied. In theory, it sounds nice but when applied no.

And to your second question, I put that whole thing in quotes because I got that from a website. I, myself was having a bit of trouble finding the passage it was in. If you do find it though, feel free to tell me.

(For the record, I'm not saying you encourage slavery at all. I know you care, I'm just simply stating that Jesus would be wrong if his message to slavery was "to turn the other cheek". One cannot turn the cheek to everything in life and expect to be rewarded with kindness in return.

And no, I'm not saying when you fail to turn the other cheek that must mean you need to respond with violence; you don't have or need to.

Let me read you something, I'm sure you'd apperciate reading it at the very least:



That is a Letter from a Birmingham Jail, April 16,1963. The writer of that letter was Martin Luther King Jr.

Jesus never ever ever promised believers a Rose Garden Robert....in fact, He promised that it would be a hard and narrow road and that we would be persecuted for sticking to what He taught us and that we should "rejoice" in this persecution Robert....Christians are suppose to go to their earthly death not denying that Christ is Lord and Savior, not thru warring but through submitting....and sticking with what we know is the truth about Him.

THAT'S what Christ taught imo. that's what the Bible also predicts in Prophesy, for many Christians fate and this is what has happened to many Christians already over the years since His crucifiction.

This isn't to say that there are not many, that claim to be Christians who actually take it to heart, as it was written and told to us, and follow what was truly said to us by Jesus...

We are certainly not perfect as Christians, no matter how hard we try, we can never be perfect, as Christ was perfect....we may come as close as we can, but never perfect, without Christ's death for us as a penance for us is what Christians believe....or, at least how I have interpreted the Word to mean.

As far as slavery, God was not a supporter of Slavery, it WAS NOT the same as slavery became later on....as Allie has posted in depth for you and shown you....imo

WE as humans, have been given free will....and that is the free will to do good or to do bad...


Oh and here are some other passages for you outside of the Book of John in the bible discussing Jesus's divinity....

* Philippians 2:5–8: "Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross!"

* Colossians 1:15: "He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God"

* Colossians 1:16: "For by him [Jesus] all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him."

* Colossians 1:17: "He [Jesus] is before all things, and in him all things hold together."

* Colossians 2 "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form"

* Titus 2:13: "while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ."

* 1 Timothy 3:16: "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

* Hebrews 1:8: "But about the Son he [God] says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom."

* 1 John 5 "We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life."

* Revelation 1:17–18: "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades." This is seen as significant when viewed with Isaiah 44:6: "This is what the LORD says—Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God."[citation needed]

The Bible also refers to Jesus as a man, which is in line with the Trinitarian concept that Jesus was fully human as well as fully divine which is expressed through the theological concept of kenosis.

 

[AllieBaba]

We were promised suffering and persecution...but a reward which would make it worth it.

 

[Modbert]

Care, I have proven Allie wrong with her concept of slavery then and now.

I never said that God stated Life would be easy. However, it makes things quite simple to have Jesus say "turn the other cheek" instead of to rise up (with at least Civil Dis) when Christianity is the one making the rules. That way people cannot use the Bible as a way to rise up against the injustices done say by the catholic church throughout history when they occurred. (Things like The Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition,etc,etc).

Am I saying there is a conspiracy here? No.
Simply stating that's it easier for Christianity to have Jesus "turning the other cheek" always then to actually take a stance on some issues that if he was perfect he'd know was wrong.

I've already proven that slaves had no rights, yet Allie has sat here the entire time trying to justify slavery as a good thing.

But as you stated in your post, it's your own opinion. It's my opinion in my posts. The Bible is so all over the place, contradicts itself so many times that it can be difficult at times to figure out what exactly it has to say. Never mind the fact that hundreds of gospels and parts that might of been in the Bible are lost to the sands of time.

God supported and encouraged slavery through the O.T and even in the N.T as I've already proven. God encouraged many things in the O.T such as killing nonbelievers by setting them on fire, murder, murder for working on the Sabbath, murder for cursing one's parents.

So either God changed his mind and figured out he was wrong or it's true. If God changed his mind, therefore he was wrong originally; therefore making him imperfect and open to mistakes like the rest of us. Which destroys any argument which claims God and Christ were perfect beings.

Christianity isn't perfect, the bible isn't perfect, no religion is perfect. I don't see why some people (not saying you are Care) are trying to defend it as such.

 

[Shadow]

Care, I have proven Allie wrong with her concept of slavery then and now.

I never said that God stated Life would be easy. However, it makes things quite simple to have Jesus say "turn the other cheek" instead of to rise up (with at least Civil Dis) when Christianity is the one making the rules. That way people cannot use the Bible as a way to rise up against the injustices done say by the catholic church throughout history when they occurred. (Things like The Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition,etc,etc).

Am I saying there is a conspiracy here? No.
Simply stating that's it easier for Christianity to have Jesus "turning the other cheek" always then to actually take a stance on some issues that if he was perfect he'd know was wrong.

I've already proven that slaves had no rights, yet Allie has sat here the entire time trying to justify slavery as a good thing.

But as you stated in your post, it's your own opinion. It's my opinion in my posts. The Bible is so all over the place, contradicts itself so many times that it can be difficult at times to figure out what exactly it has to say. Never mind the fact that hundreds of gospels and parts that might of been in the Bible are lost to the sands of time.

God supported and encouraged slavery through the O.T and even in the N.T as I've already proven. God encouraged many things in the O.T such as killing nonbelievers by setting them on fire, murder, murder for working on the Sabbath, murder for cursing one's parents.

So either God changed his mind and figured out he was wrong or it's true. If God changed his mind, therefore he was wrong originally; therefore making him imperfect and open to mistakes like the rest of us. Which destroys any argument which claims God and Christ were perfect beings.

Christianity isn't perfect, the bible isn't perfect, no religion is perfect. I don't see why some people (not saying you are Care) are trying to defend it as such.

No you have not proven Allie wrong.

A few of the laws concerning bond servants (ie slaves) is talked about in Deuteronomy.

Where it states that slaves will serve for 6 years and then be sent away,not empty handed. But supplied liberally from the masters flock. "What the Lord has blessed you with you will share with him".

Also in Exodus. If a servent comes in to the masters house with a wife,then she is to leave with him.

If a man sells his daughter as a maidservant,and the master of the house has betrothed her to his son, then he must deal with her as his daughter. IF the son then takes another wife,the maidservants food,clothing,marriage rights etc may not be deminished. If they are, she is to be set out as a free man with out paying money for release.

Those are a few examples

Yes slaves had biblical rights,that are listed in the bible..

 

[sky dancer]

So what? The point is that Bible adherents have historically misused those passages to justify slavery.

 

[xsited1]

Yes, you can. In fact you really have no coice BUT to pick and choose.

If you're a Christian, you really have very little choice since Christianity itself is divided on such basic issues as virgin birth, trinity, devinity of Jesus, sacrement, and so forth.

It completely astounds me how few Christians I met really seem to understand that obvious fact.

They all seem to have their particular laundry list of things that ALL CHRISTIANS MUST BELIEVE to be in their special Christian club.

Are they unaware that other self proclaiming Christians do not believe all those things?

Apparently, as we can see from Xisted's statement, most of them are unaware of the wide spectrum of Christian beliefs..

You're confusing Christians with psuedo-christians. It happens in every religion. The Virgin Birth is fundamental to Christian teaching. If someone disagrees with it and calls themselves a Christian, then you know they aren't a Christian. Adolph Hitler called himself a Christian, but obviously that was impossible. I will agree that there are different interpretations of prophecy which is to be expected, but if you read the Bible in the original Greek version for everything else, there is no ambiguity.

 

[Modbert]

You're confusing Christians with psuedo-christians. It happens in every religion. The Virgin Birth is fundamental to Christian teaching. If someone disagrees with it and calls themselves a Christian, then you know they aren't a Christian. Adolph Hitler called himself a Christian, but obviously that was impossible. I will agree that there are different interpretations of prophecy which is to be expected, but if you read the Bible in the original Greek version for everything else, there is no ambiguity.

Hitler was a Christian. It's been proven.

I dislike it when for whatever reason people say that Hitler wasn't a Christian.

 

[Benthamite]

I do not believe in the virgin birth of Jesus because Scripture cannot establish an accurate date of Jesus’s birth. Luke 2:1-5 reports that “And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. This census first took place while Quirinius was governing Syria. So all went to be registered, everyone to his own city. Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, to be registered with Mary, his betrothed wife, who was with child."

Now, Publius Sulpicius Quirinius governed Syria during A.D. 6-9, after Herod Archelaus was banished. Similarly, the census taken during his period of governance occurred in A.D. 6, and Gamaliel mentioned in Acts 5:37 that this caused a violent revolt, (perhaps inspired by religious objections by the Jews in memory of King David’s sinful attempt to do the same thing), a fact that is recorded by the historian Josephus.

But if Jesus was born in A.D. 6, the attempts of Herod the Great to murder him that are recorded in Matthew 2 cannot be accurate, since Herod died in 4 B.C. Hence, there is a discrepancy of about ten years between the Gospel of Matthew and the Gospel of Luke. Moreover, if we regard the birth date of A.D. 6 as being accurate, Luke’s account that “Jesus began his ministry at about thirty years of age” in Luke 3:23 would seem to be inaccurate.

Hence, it is for that reason that the author of the Gospel of Luke is regarded as having made a mistake, which of course, poses some problems for the conception of the Bible as “infallible” and “divinely inspired.”

You are lost. I am sorry I can not help you. Robert is lost also. As are many people. However all I can say is that you can repent, ask forgiveness and be forgiven.

Read 2 Timothy all of 3 and 4. Read the book of John. It is never to late.

2 Timothy is one of the Pastoral Epistles, and is regarded as not having actually been written by Paul. The vocabulary and style used in the Pastoral Epistles, particularly 1 Timothy, are unlike any that were ever used in letters authentically written by Paul. Moreover, the historical references of the Pastoral Epistles are incompatible with the chronology of Paul’s life that is stated in Acts, the false teachings described therein seems to be the Gnosticism of the 2nd century, and it is probable that the church organization structure described in Titus 1:5-7 is far too developed for Paul’s day.

In addition, the author of the Pastoral Epistles has a demonstrably different attitude toward the role of women than Paul does, and the conception of the Pastoral Epistles as letters of Paul could itself be regarded as the incorporation of a false doctrine into Christianity, since so many churches and denominations do not allow women to be ministers. In Galatians 3:28, he writes, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” Yet, 1 Timothy 2:11-15 states, “Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the women being deceived, fell into transgression.”

Now, Paul does not abandon gender roles altogether, but for him to state that “there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus” seems to be profoundly contradictory to a command that women "learn in silence with all submission."

 

[Shadow]

So what? The point is that Bible adherents have historically misused those passages to justify slavery.

But now,rather convieniently I might add, Liberals try to use those same bible verses to paint all christains as "racist". So really, you are just as bad AND a hypocrite....not that it's a huge suprise by the way.

 

[ABikerSailor]

But now,rather convieniently I might add, Liberals try to use those same bible verses to paint all christains as "racist". So really, you are just as bad AND a hypocrite....not that it's a huge suprise by the way.

The only "christian" that I think is racist, is that bitch on here named Allie.

No......not all Christians are racist, but most racists are Christian.

 

[Modbert]

But now,rather convieniently I might add, Liberals try to use those same bible verses to paint all christains as "racist". So really, you are just as bad AND a hypocrite....not that it's a huge suprise by the way.

I love how you only use Liberals. You do realize there are Liberal Christians too?

Shadow, take off the blinders and stop being so obsessed with defending one political side. It's not logical to defend one political side no matter what.

 

[sky dancer]

But now,rather convieniently I might add, Liberals try to use those same bible verses to paint all christains as "racist". So really, you are just as bad AND a hypocrite....not that it's a huge suprise by the way.

You must have reading comprehension or you are trying to distort my statement. Study history. The Bible has been misused to justify slavery.

I consider myself a liberal. I do not believe that all Christians are racist.

It's no surprise to me that you are misrepresenting my views. I hope you don't consider deliberate dishonesty a Christian or conservative value. I don't.

You seem to have issues with 'liberals'. Why not just address the content of my posts rather than making broad, sweeping statements and personal attacks?

I'm an opinionated poster who likes to discuss politics and religion. No more, no less. Adress the actual sentences I write rather than your interpretation of them and we'll have a more interesting conversation.

 

[Shadow]

I love how you only use Liberals. You do realize there are Liberal Christians too?

Shadow, take off the blinders and stop being so obsessed with defending one political side. It's not logical to defend one political side no matter what.

You first asshat..

 

[Modbert]

You first asshat..

Quite the comeback. I'm not always defending Liberals and in fact have called Pelosi and Reid clowns. I have called out Liberals when I believe they were wrong.

I also hold Conservative and Libertarian views. Do you hold any Liberal views?

Back to you frenchy.

 

[Shadow]

You must have reading comprehension or you are trying to distort my statement. Study history. The Bible has been misused to justify slavery.

I consider myself a liberal. I do not believe that all Christians are racist.

It's no surprise to me that you are misrepresenting my views. I hope you don't consider deliberate dishonesty a Christian or conservative value. I don't.

You seem to have issues with 'liberals'. Why not just address the content of my posts rather than making broad, sweeping statements and personal attacks?

I'm an opinionated poster who likes to discuss politics and religion. No more, no less. Adress the actual sentences I write rather than your interpretation of them and we'll have a more interesting conversation.

Yes ..well when you (or any other liberals) decide to stop doing the very thing you supposidly hate...misquoting the bible for your own purposes. Then I will believe you have pure motives. And since you said..."So What" when I called Robert on his lame bs. I'm pretty sure you do not. So quit whining when you are called out on your own hypocracy.

BTW clean up your own act...