Zone1 Would Jesus support Donald Trump if alive today?

[TNHarley]

You forget all those He created that DO accept His plan of redemption. He is complete justice and complete mercy. Would you have Him murder all those He knows will reject Him at the first sign of rebellion?

Here's the bottom line, you know the way, you know what He expects and you choose to reject Him. Why do you then blame him for your own choices?

OK I give up lol

 

[Meriweather]

I think a lot of people don't realize what separation from God really means. They don't understand that everything good comes from Him, and if you're cut off from that, only evil and misery remain. It doesn't have to be active punishment to be the most horrible, eternal experience ever.

You can't increase darkness you can only take away light.
You can't increase cold you can only take away heat.
Likewise, taking away God's presence increases His opposite, evil.

It's possible they know exactly what it means. It means relying on self alone. Right and wrong is all subjective, it's what they feel it is on any particular day, even any particular moment.

 

[hobelim]

Except the coin had Caesar's face on it and taxes belonged to him. Now, I know you probably have two or three imaginative alternate beliefs because you can't accept the Bible at face value no matter what, but it's clear that Jesus was not political.

Thats ridiculous. In the second grade, when I first heard the story of A&E, as soon as a talking serpent was introduced I knew it couldn't be taken at face value, literally. WTF!

And you must have forgotten to include in your speculations that there was no such thing as freedom of expression back then and people were imprisoned, whipped, enslaved, maimed and killed for trivial reasons daily. Jesus spoke in parables. What do you think the subject of casting out demons is about if not challenging and confronting the cruelty and corruption of a few self indulgent political rulers living in opulence off the backs of the possessed?

And how do you resolve your position that Jesus was some pusillanimous lonely ascetic with this scripture that clearly defines a spiritual war against political rulers, dictators, tyrants, despots, narcissists and megalomaniacs??

"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the potentates of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12

What do you think a principality is? What do you think a potentate is?

How is this spiritual struggle not political?

 

[ding]

So he guesses? Not very omniscient.

Not sure how you made that leap in logic. Apparently you are of the mindset that unless everything is perfect there can be no God.

 

[ding]

God doesnt demand people demand in the name of God so we just say STFU

God demanded many things from the Israelites, including obedience to His laws (like the Ten Commandments), worship, sacrifices (both voluntary and mandatory), specific offerings for the Tabernacle (gold, linens), justice, love, and walking humbly, but also faced their repeated rebellion, demanding a king and disobeying direct commands, leading to consequences like wandering and punishment.
Key Demands & Expectations:

• Love & Fear of God: Deuteronomy 10:12 states God requires Israel to "fear the LORD your God, and live in a way that pleases him, and love him and serve him with all your heart and soul".
• Obedience to Laws: They were given specific laws, including the command to destroy the Canaanites in the Promised Land to avoid assimilation with their evil practices.
• Worship & Offerings: This included voluntary burnt, grain, and peace offerings, as well as mandatory sin and trespass sacrifices, along with specific materials (gold, jewels, fine linen) for the Tabernacle.
• Justice & Kindness: The prophet Micah summarized God's requirement as "do justice, love kindness, and walk humbly with your God".

Israel's Response (Rebellion & Demands):

• Disobedience: Despite God's provision (manna, quail), the Israelites often grumbled, rebelled, and failed to believe or obey Him, as seen at Kadesh-Barnea.
• Demand for a King: They demanded an earthly king like other nations, which God warned would lead to oppression, contrasting with His own gracious rule.

In essence, God demanded faithfulness, love, and obedience, but the Israelites' history is marked by frequent failure to meet these demands, often leading to God's disciplinary actions.

 

[ding]

Many separate themselves from your god because for us thats the right thing to do and we are better off

There is only one God. Many perceptions, one God.

 

[TNHarley]

There is only one God. Many perceptions, one God.

Why would a jealous ego maniac like god, allow many perceptions of him?

 

[hadit]

How do you resolve that position with this scripture that clearly defines a spiritual war against political rulers, dictators, tyrants, despots, narcissists and megalomaniacs??

You said it yourself, spiritual war. That's not protesting, that's not taking up arms against an oppressive overlord not political resistance. It's recognizing what's behind those tyrants and dictators and fighting that.

"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the potentates of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12


What do you think a principality is? What do you think a potentate is? How is this not political?

Here's what you conveniently ignore:

"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood". That means it's not earthly, it's supernatural. I know you reject anything supernatural, but that's your problem. We don't struggle against an earthly dictator, president, king, etc. This is a spiritual struggle against the forces of darkness and rebellion against God.

"against principalities, against powers, against the potentates of the darkness of this world". This is spiritual imagery, not physical and not earthy.

"against spiritual wickedness". Again, not earthly.

Jesus never advocated that His followers should rebel against Rome, despite the oppression Rome imposed.

 

[ding]

Why would a jealous ego maniac like god, allow many perceptions of him?

For the same reason he allows you to insult him. Free will.

 

[Meriweather]

Isn't that contradicted by your delusional belief in original sin? Innocent children who haven't leaned the difference between good and evil much less how to chose good and reject evil are born sinners, separated from God? Because Adam did something stupid in a fairy tae?

Geez!

You haven't a clue about Genesis. You certainly don't know my beliefs about it. Adam and Eve chose to know both good and evil. In the story, Adam (means man) and Eve (mother of all) represents all of us. We are all born with that wish to know both good and evil--along with a life of freedom. You should know this if you have been around truly innocent children and have them wailing/commanding 'No' almost as soon as they can talk. Because we all wish to know both good and evil, we elected to live in what is known as a 'fallen world' or 'original sin'. We have this propensity to disobey, to learn good and evil the hard way through this disobedience.

From the beginning, disobedience has been a choice. Adam and Eve chose it, we did, and our babies will freely choose it as well. Despite this, a massive amount of humanity have chosen to work towards being obedient to God (or goodness) and the Way of God, or the way of goodness. God/goodness is the priority for the masses, but not for all. Greed, power, wealth are great forces as well.

 

[hobelim]

You said it yourself, spiritual war. That's not protesting. that's not taking up arms against an oppressive overlord not political resistance. It's recognizing what's behind those tyrants and dictators and fighting that.

I said nothing about a violent confrontation even though the constitution allows for that when the government fails in its duty to serve the people.

Anyway, why do you think Nero started the first of many Christian persecutions if they were paying taxes, submitting to Rome, and not protesting?

 

[hobelim]

From the beginning, disobedience has been a choice. Adam and Eve chose it, we did, and our babies will freely choose it as well

Your belief in original sin, being separated from God at birth, contradicts your statement that people choose to be separated by God.

What baby makes a deliberate choice to be separated from God?

goo goo gaa gaa?

 

[Meriweather]

Thats ridiculous. In the second grade, when I first heard the story of A&E, as soon as a talking serpent was introduced I knew it couldn't be taken at face value, literally. WTF!

As a second grader, you probably hadn't learned that big word, anthropomorphism, a technique used by story-tellers who were well beyond second grade.

 

[hadit]

I said nothing about a violent confrontation even though the constitution allows for that when the government fails in its duty to serve the people.

We're not talking about the American political system, we're talking about God's system.

Anyway, why do you think Nero started the first of many Christian persecutions if they were paying taxes, submitting to Rome, and not protesting?

Evil. Who said Caesar was sane?

 

[Meriweather]

Your belief in original sin, being separated from God at birth,

That's your belief of my belief. It's far from my actual belief.

 

[ding]

Why would a jealous ego maniac like god, allow many perceptions of him?

A better question is why would you use language that was incendiary unless it was done so intentionally. Which then leads to the question, why would you need to do that?

 

[hobelim]

As a second grader, you probably hadn't learned that big word, anthropomorphism, a technique used by story-tellers who were well beyond second grade.

Wrong. I didn't know that term but I was taught by my mother when I was 3 or 4 that any talking animal in a children's story represent a person. I knew that for half my life by the time I heard about A&E, and knew it was like any children's story when a crafty talking serpent was introduced.

What your church has done is the same as if someone read the story of the three pigs and 'believed" there was a magical time in the past when pigs could talk and build houses, and so many statues were built to honor the wise pig, and many churches were built in which to worship, solemnly pray to and eat the wise pig (in the form of bacon) seeking spiritual life.

And many laws were passed and many prisons were built in which to punish unbelievers.

In other words insane.

 

[ding]

I said nothing about a violent confrontation even though the constitution allows for that when the government fails in its duty to serve the people.

Can you show me where in the constitution that it allows for violent confrontation?

 

[norwegen]

Except the coin had Caesar's face on it and taxes belonged to him. Now, I know you probably have two or three imaginative alternate beliefs because you can't accept the Bible at face value no matter what, but it's clear that Jesus was not political.

Of course the coin belonged to Caesar. God didn't care about that; He wanted worship.

The Jews tried to trip Jesus up with their question because Jesus had just told them that God would destroy them. They had perceived that in the parable he had just shared (Lk 20:19).

Jesus' mission was to slaughter the Jews and hand the kingdom of God over to a righteous people. And he would enlist the Roman armies in achieving that end.

And lo and behold, that's exactly what happened.

Of course, history doesn't include Jesus in the Jewish-Roman Wars, but that's what the Jewish Christians believed. And they were entitled to that belief because it was their point of view. It was their story.

President Trump may not want to exterminate the left wingers, but he certainly wants to drain the swamp.

Maybe some day that will happen. Maybe.

 

[TNHarley]

For the same reason he allows you to insult him. Free will.

Yeah totally inconsistent but ok, pagan.