Zone1 "Did Jesus become Messiah at His conception?"

[DennisPTate]

I e-mailed off the following question to near death experiencer Robert Marshall of "44 Hours in Heaven Ministries"an hour or so ago : "Did Jesus become Messiah at His conception?
Or at His birth?
Or when the Holy Spirit descended on Him like a dove when He was baptized by John the Baptist in the Jordan River?"

Now that I have had an opportunity to give this more thought my opinion at this time is that "The Spirit of Moshiach Stored in Gan Eden" would be given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus at conception. But, then even more of the Holy Spirit or "Spirit of Moshiach" would be given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus at His birth.
But then even more and more of the Holy Spirit was given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus when He was baptized by John the Baptist in the River Jordan. But then even more of the Holy Spirit was given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus while He was fasting for forty days in the wilderness and met The Tempter, [who I assume would be former Covering Cherub Helel who Christians know as Lucifer - Satan].

Then I believe that Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus had a real opportunity to ask for seventy legions of angels as He prayed at Gethsemanie and He was free to play out a different role in life than "Moshiach - Messiah Son of David - Messiah the Passover Lamb. I believe that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus could have put the Yom Kippur event first, and turned that Yom Kippur event into a new year allegorically, but Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus decided to do Messiah Son of David, Messiah the Passover Lamb first two millennia ago and as a result the Holy Spirit, [or can we say The Spirit of Moshiach Stored in Gan Eden], was poured out on Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus, so that He could fulfill a role that no Christian would want to attempt to compete with Him for that role!
....

Can you imagine how insane the Trump Derangement Syndrome People would get if President Donald J. Trump and his team got into some spirituality and theology in their spare time and brought Christian Theologians to a whole new place of cooperation with Rabbi's in Israel?
....

"If the Disciple known as John was a genuine "Christian Prophet" then the soul of "The Spirit of Moshiach stored in Gan Eden" either entered Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus and turned Him into Messiah Yeshua - Jesus at conception, or perhaps at birth, or perhaps at the unusual event of the Holy Spirit coming upon Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus like a "dove" when He was baptized by John the Baptist at the River Jordan?

I personally no longer know for certain exactly when Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus became "Messiah the Passover Lamb - Messiah Son of David," was it even before conception? Was it at His birth? Or was it when He was Baptized by John the Baptist? The full answer to this topic is above my own Security Clearance Level and Pay Scale with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus, [and incidentally when Messiah Yeshua - Jesus appears as The Being of Light of near death experience fame], He often tells whoever He meets about a major piece of the puzzle and then tells them to NOT TELL ANYBODY, what He just showed them was a major piece of the "Genius Master Plan," [as former Atheist and near death experiencer Rabbi Alon Anava terms what the G-d of Abraham has set up for all eight billion of us]?

Here is an article from a Jewish website that has the power to revolutionize the relationship between the vast majority of Christians, [including Pope Leo himself], with ten million Israelis, [or at least with the leading Rabbi's in Israel]?

.....
So now after reading this article we can begin to ask questions that will make much more sense out of the seemingly blasphemous statements that were made by the Disciple John regarding the Pre-Existence of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus, [the Prophet Isa to Muslims, Shalom be upon Him]?

....

"On the particular day that marks the end of the galut, when Mashiach will redeem Israel, the unique pre-existing soul of Mashiach ‘stored’ in Gan Eden from aforetimes will descend and be bestowed upon that tzadik.10 R. Mosheh Sofer summarizes this principle in his responsa:11 "
[The Personality of Mashiach, By J. Immanuel Schochet, From the Sichos in English Collection ]

Zone1 Post in thread '"For Many are called, but few are chosen." [Jesus]'

Mar 8, 2026

In true Christianity, how you conduct your life and treat others is important and is part of being on the straight and narrow path. From a Christian perspective, we believe that Jesus was Jehovah of the Old Testament.

Exactly!

If the Disciple known as John was a genuine "Christian Prophet" then the soul of "The Spirit of Moshiach stored in Gan Eden" either entered Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus and turned Him into Messiah Yeshua - Jesus at conception, or perhaps at birth, or perhaps at the unusual event of the Holy Spirit coming upon Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus like a "dove" when He was...

• DennisPTate

I am of the belief that Pastor Rick Joyner is one of the most gifted Charismatic Christian visionaries alive on earth at this time. I believe that what Pastor Rick Joyner was shown about a formerly homeless man named "Angelo" gives us a clue as to how more and more and more of the Holy Spirit can be given to us mere humans as we make decisions during our lives.

[Pastor Rick Joyner] :

"Angelo

“There is still someone you must meet before you return to the battle,” He said as we walked. As we did, I continued to be astonished by how much more glorious He had become than even a few minutes before.

“Every time you see Me with the eyes of your heart, your mind is renewed a little bit more,” He proceeded to say. “One day you will be able to abide in My presence continually. When you do that, all you have learned by My Spirit will be readily available to you, and I will be available to you.”

I could hear and understand everything He said, but I was so captured by His glory that I just had to ask Him, “Lord, why are you so much more glorious now than when You first appeared to me as Wisdom?”

“I have never changed, but you have. You are changed as you behold My glory with an unveiled face. The experiences you have had are removing the veils from your face so that you can see Me more clearly. Yet nothing removes them as quickly as when you behold My love.”

He then stopped, and I turned to look at those on the thrones next to us. We were still in the place where the highest kings were sitting. Then I recognized a man who was close by.

“Sir, I know you from somewhere, but I simply cannot remember where.”

“You once saw me in a vision,” he replied.

I immediately remembered, and was shocked! “So you were a real person?”

“Yes,” he replied.

I remembered the day when, as a young Christian, I had become frustrated with some issues in my life. I went out into the middle of a battlefield park near my apartment and determined that I would wait until the Lord spoke to me. As I sat reading my Bible, I was caught up into a vision, one of the first ones I ever had. In the vision I saw a man who was zealously serving the Lord. He was continually witnessing to people, teaching the Bible, and visiting the sick to pray for them. He was very zealous for the Lord, and had a genuine love for people. Then I saw another man, named Angelo, who was obviously a tramp or a homeless person. When a small kitten wandered into his path, he started to kick it but restrained himself, though he still shoved it out of the way rather harshly with his foot. Then the Lord asked me which of these men pleased Him the most.

“The first,” I said without hesitating.

“No, the second,” He responded, and began to tell me their stories.

He shared that the first man had been raised in a wonderful family, which had always known the Lord. He grew up in a thriving church and then attended one of the best Bible colleges in the country. He had been given one hundred portions of His love, but he was using only seventy-five.

... [Rick Joyner, The Final Quest] scroll down to near the bottom of this page:

The Final Quest [English] Rick Joyner

The Final Quest [English] Rick Joyner

64.71.77.248

The Hordes of Hell Are Marching

On February the 16th, 1995 I was given a dream in which I saw a great army from hell that had been released against the church. Two days later I was given a vision in which I saw this diabolical horde again, but in much greater detail. This is an abbreviated version of the first part of that...

msm.morningstarministries.org

Here is an article written by an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi that I read twenty some years ago that forced me to think and think and think about this question?

The Personality of Mashiach​

https://www.chabad.org/5785261
By J. Immanuel Schochet
From the Sichos in English Collection

A. Mashiach Human​

Mashiach and the Messianic age are the ultimate end for the world, preconceived from the very beginning, for which the world was created.1 Mashiach, therefore, is one of the things that precede the creation.2 This refers, however, to the principle and soul of Mashiach. On the actual level of the physical world’s reality, Mashiach is a human being:

Mashiach is a human being, born in normal fashion of human parents.3 The only qualification about his origins is that he is a descendant of King David,4 through the lineage of his son Solomon.5 From his birth onwards his righteousness will increase continually, and by virtue of his deeds he will merit sublime levels of spiritual perfection.6

B. Mashiach In Every Generation​

Any time is a potential time for the coming of Mashiach.7 This does not mean, however, that at the appropriate time he will suddenly emerge from Heaven to appear on earth.8 On the contrary: Mashiach is already on earth, a human being of great saintly status (a tzadik) appearing and existing in every generation. “In every generation is born a progeny of Judah fit to be Israel’s Mashiach!”9

On the particular day that marks the end of the galut, when Mashiach will redeem Israel, the unique pre-existing soul of Mashiach ‘stored’ in Gan Eden from aforetimes will descend and be bestowed upon that tzadik.10 R. Mosheh Sofer summarizes this principle in his responsa:11

“As for the coming of the scion of David, I need to posit the following premise: Moses the first redeemer of Israel, reached the age of eighty years and did not know or sense that he would redeem Israel. Even when the Holy One, blessed be He, said to him, ‘Come and I will send you to Pharao…’ (Exodus 3:10), he declined and did not want to accept that mission. So it will be with the final redeemer.

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/101679/jewish/The-Personality-of-Mashiach.htm

 

[0311]

As there never was a "Jesus" (Yeshua would the name) you question is ridiculous. Divinity did not happen until 75 - 150 years after his execution. Christians believe weird shit.

 

[DennisPTate]

As there never was a "Jesus" (Yeshua would the name) you question is ridiculous. Divinity did not happen until 75 - 150 years after his execution. Christians believe weird shit.

Do you mean that none of his disciples, or friends and family would call him "Jesus?"

If Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus had any Greek friends they would very likely call him "Jesus."

I am of the belief that what Messiah Yeshua - Jesus accomplished during those forty days of temptation in the wilderness while he was "fasting" would utterly boggle my mind, [and I believe yours as well once the full truth about this is shown to you]?


I also believe though that at Gethemsenaie where Messiah Yeshua - Jesus did NOT ask to be given seventy legions of angels, again His fulfillment of the role of Moshiach ben David, [Messiah Son of David, Messiah the Passover Lamb], was taken to an extreme level.

Then after the three days, [seventy two hours], in the "heart of the earth], when Messiah Yeshua - Jesus fulfilled the role of a Jonah, then He really blew all hell out of the water!

 

[ding]

I e-mailed off the following question to near death experiencer Robert Marshall of "44 Hours in Heaven Ministries"an hour or so ago : "Did Jesus become Messiah at His conception?
Or at His birth?
Or when the Holy Spirit descended on Him like a dove when He was baptized by John the Baptist in the Jordan River?"

Now that I have had an opportunity to give this more thought my opinion at this time is that "The Spirit of Moshiach Stored in Gan Eden" would be given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus at conception. But, then even more of the Holy Spirit or "Spirit of Moshiach" would be given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus at His birth.
But then even more and more of the Holy Spirit was given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus when He was baptized by John the Baptist in the River Jordan. But then even more of the Holy Spirit was given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus while He was fasting for forty days in the wilderness and met The Tempter, [who I assume would be former Covering Cherub Helel who Christians know as Lucifer - Satan].

Then I believe that Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus had a real opportunity to ask for seventy legions of angels as He prayed at Gethsemanie and He was free to play out a different role in life than "Moshiach - Messiah Son of David - Messiah the Passover Lamb. I believe that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus could have put the Yom Kippur event first, and turned that Yom Kippur event into a new year allegorically, but Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus decided to do Messiah Son of David, Messiah the Passover Lamb first two millennia ago and as a result the Holy Spirit, [or can we say The Spirit of Moshiach Stored in Gan Eden], was poured out on Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus, so that He could fulfill a role that no Christian would want to attempt to compete with Him for that role!
....

Can you imagine how insane the Trump Derangement Syndrome People would get if President Donald J. Trump and his team got into some spirituality and theology in their spare time and brought Christian Theologians to a whole new place of cooperation with Rabbi's in Israel?
....

"If the Disciple known as John was a genuine "Christian Prophet" then the soul of "The Spirit of Moshiach stored in Gan Eden" either entered Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus and turned Him into Messiah Yeshua - Jesus at conception, or perhaps at birth, or perhaps at the unusual event of the Holy Spirit coming upon Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus like a "dove" when He was baptized by John the Baptist at the River Jordan?

I personally no longer know for certain exactly when Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus became "Messiah the Passover Lamb - Messiah Son of David," was it even before conception? Was it at His birth? Or was it when He was Baptized by John the Baptist? The full answer to this topic is above my own Security Clearance Level and Pay Scale with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus, [and incidentally when Messiah Yeshua - Jesus appears as The Being of Light of near death experience fame], He often tells whoever He meets about a major piece of the puzzle and then tells them to NOT TELL ANYBODY, what He just showed them was a major piece of the "Genius Master Plan," [as former Atheist and near death experiencer Rabbi Alon Anava terms what the G-d of Abraham has set up for all eight billion of us]?

Here is an article from a Jewish website that has the power to revolutionize the relationship between the vast majority of Christians, [including Pope Leo himself], with ten million Israelis, [or at least with the leading Rabbi's in Israel]?

.....
So now after reading this article we can begin to ask questions that will make much more sense out of the seemingly blasphemous statements that were made by the Disciple John regarding the Pre-Existence of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus, [the Prophet Isa to Muslims, Shalom be upon Him]?

....

Zone1 Post in thread '"For Many are called, but few are chosen." [Jesus]'

Mar 8, 2026

In true Christianity, how you conduct your life and treat others is important and is part of being on the straight and narrow path. From a Christian perspective, we believe that Jesus was Jehovah of the Old Testament.

Exactly!

If the Disciple known as John was a genuine "Christian Prophet" then the soul of "The Spirit of Moshiach stored in Gan Eden" either entered Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus and turned Him into Messiah Yeshua - Jesus at conception, or perhaps at birth, or perhaps at the unusual event of the Holy Spirit coming upon Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus like a "dove" when He was...

• DennisPTate

I am of the belief that Pastor Rick Joyner is one of the most gifted Charismatic Christian visionaries alive on earth at this time. I believe that what Pastor Rick Joyner was shown about a formerly homeless man named "Angelo" gives us a clue as to how more and more and more of the Holy Spirit can be given to us mere humans as we make decisions during our lives.





Here is an article written by an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi that I read twenty some years ago that forced me to think and think and think about this question?

The Trinitarian view is that the Son (the second person of the Trinity) has always existed as fully God, but only became fully man at the Incarnation. Therefore, Jesus has not always been human; He added a human nature to His divine nature, remaining fully God and fully man forevermore after His birth.

So it would go to reason Jesus became the Messiah when he became fully man which was at his incarnation.

 

[DennisPTate]

The Trinitarian view is that the Son (the second person of the Trinity) has always existed as fully God, but only became fully man at the Incarnation. Therefore, Jesus has not always been human; He added a human nature to His divine nature, remaining fully God and fully man forevermore after His birth.

So it would go to reason Jesus became the Messiah when he became fully man which was at his incarnation.

This is exactly what I believe as well. For a couple of decades now I have also wondered if The Holy Spirit that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus said could take care of His disciples even better than He could have done even if He had lived on and on and on and on, may be identifiable with YHWh The Mother or "Wisdom" of the Book of Proverbs?

I do believe that King Solomon may have been given amazing insight to personify "Wisdom" as a woman!

Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.

6;Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee.

7;Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

8;Exalt her, and she shall promote thee: she shall bring thee to honour, when thou dost embrace her.

9;She shall give to thine head an ornament of grace: a crown of glory shall she deliver to thee.

10;Hear, O my son, and receive my sayings; and the years of thy life shall be many.

I have taught thee in the way of wisdom; I have led thee in right paths.

12 When thou goest, thy steps shall not be straitened; and when thou runnest, thou shalt not stumble.

13 Take fast hold of instruction; let her not go: keep her; for she is thy life.

Bible Gateway passage: Proverbs 4 - King James Version

Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding. For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law. For I was my father's son, tender and only beloved in the sight of my mother. He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words: keep my...

www.biblegateway.com

This possibility may be hinted at even in Theoretical Physics.

Wave Theory and Gender: Why Sex

"Pulling and gravitation, which resemble basic feminine traits, are the dominant properties of the magnetic loop. Consequently, magnetic loops have a capacity for storing energy and act to maintain the structural integrity of the entire wave formation. The electronic/energetic loop consists of expanding properties that disperse energetic matter that “disappears” into space. This is synonymous with masculine characteristics." (Dr. Chaim Tejman)

 

[jacksonlamb]

Jesus became messiah at his death, according to Jehovah Witness and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strang).

 

[Clyde 154]

Jesus was never created.........He was with God in the beginning, at creation. Jesus is "THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD".....THE WORD. Ever notice how the sun, stars and other heavenly bodies such as the moon never existed until the 4th day of creation? Who else but God's Word could have existed when God declared on day ONE........."Let there be light......" Genesis 1:3 Its not complicated when read in context while referencing other revelations from the Holy Spirit throughout the Bible.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. That light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it." -- John 1:1-5

We are clearly informed within the content of the Holy Scriptures that God had established a plan for mankind's ultimate salvation (in spite of God's gift to man that granted free will.....which meant that man was given the gift to choose between right and wrong).........this plan went through Jesus Christ, THE WORD, THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD.
Peter declared, "He (Jesus) was foreknown, BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was made manifest in these last time for your sake." -- 1 Peter 1:20. Paul declared the same, "......before time began..." -- 2 Tim. 1:19

We are told this plan stayed hidden, even from the prophets who foretold it, but did not understand what they prophesied; they just followed God's Word. (Eph. 3:5,6...1 Peter 1:1:10-12)

Thus......Jesus was, is and will always be the Messiah. He had to come to earth in the form of Man....literally, in order to live from cradle to grave, perfect sin free in order to fulfill the OLD LAW to the letter. (Phil. 2:5-8)

Without the New Testament of Grace........provided by Jesus Christ, we are still bound to the letter of the law.....hoping that the blood of goats and bulls, and other animal sacrifices will carry our sin over from season to season. There is no remedy for Sin under the Old Testament, no permanent gift of salvation. (Hebrews 9:9-10, 10:4)

 

[jacksonlamb]

Somebody drank consecrated wine, the whole flippin' barrel, eh, Clyde?

 

[ding]

Jesus became messiah at his death, according to Jehovah Witness and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strang).

I did not know that. What's the logic behind that?

 

[jacksonlamb]

He had to anointed and walk the walk. When He arose from the tomb, the Messiahship fell upon him.

 

[Clyde 154]

Somebody drank consecrated wine, the whole flippin' barrel, eh, Clyde?

Documented by Book, Chapter, Verse. Presented are the Words of the Holy Spirit. There is only one source to document true doctrine today, the Holy Scriptures. God no longer speaks through prophets but through His only begotten Son. If anyone tells you that God speaks or they represent God today in these modern times.......and their message cannot be documented in the Scriptures, they are delusional, lying, deceptively evil, or all the above. -- Heb. 1:1-4

"God at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things.............." -- Heb. 1:1-4

Mankind no longer needs to directly speak with God.........as God has already given, through grace, '......EVERYTHING that pertains to LIFE AND GODLINESS......through the knowledge of Jesus Christ" -- 2 Peter 1:3

Again, the scriptures document the truth..........Jesus Christ has existed as the Messiah (Savior, the LIGHT of the World ) of mankind before time itself began, before the foundation of the world. (1 Peter 1:20, Eph. 3:5,6)

 

[DennisPTate]

Documented by Book, Chapter, Verse. Presented are the Words of the Holy Spirit. There is only one source to document true doctrine today, the Holy Scriptures. God no longer speaks through prophets but through His only begotten Son. If anyone tells you that God speaks or they represent God today in these modern times.......and their message cannot be documented in the Scriptures, they are delusional, lying, deceptively evil, or all the above. -- Heb. 1:1-4

"God at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things.............." -- Heb. 1:1-4

Mankind no longer needs to directly speak with God.........as God has already given, through grace, '......EVERYTHING that pertains to LIFE AND GODLINESS......through the knowledge of Jesus Christ" -- 2 Peter 1:3

Again, the scriptures document the truth..........Jesus Christ has existed as the Messiah (Savior, the LIGHT of the World ) of mankind before time itself began, before the foundation of the world. (1 Peter 1:20, Eph. 3:5,6)

I believe that every point that you are making is correct.

I believe that Jewish Rabbi's should already know from their own ancient writings that "The Spirit of Moshiach Stored in Gan Eden" would ultimately have to fit with everything that you are writing about Messiah Yeshua - Jesus, [Messiah the Passover Lamb].

I believe that the idea that perhaps Messiah Yeshua - Jesus set up a Latter Day fulfillment of Yom Kippur and the fall harvest festivals has the potential to play a huge role in what Messiah Yeshua - Jesus wants to do for his own people.

In a way, The Laodicean Era of Revelation chapter three are scheduled to play the role of a modern "goat for Azazel" and also a "goat for the Lord" that is written about in Leviticus chapter sixteen.

I believe that Rabbi Jonathan Cahn has set the stage for this idea to move a high percentage of ten million Israelis.

Messiah, Barabbas & the Mystery of the Two Goats | Jonathan Cahn Sermon | Resurrection Day 2025​

 

[DennisPTate]

Jesus was never created.........He was with God in the beginning, at creation. Jesus is "THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD".....THE WORD. Ever notice how the sun, stars and other heavenly bodies such as the moon never existed until the 4th day of creation? Who else but God's Word could have existed when God declared on day ONE........."Let there be light......" Genesis 1:3 Its not complicated when read in context while referencing other revelations from the Holy Spirit throughout the Bible.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. That light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it." -- John 1:1-5

We are clearly informed within the content of the Holy Scriptures that God had established a plan for mankind's ultimate salvation (in spite of God's gift to man that granted free will.....which meant that man was given the gift to choose between right and wrong).........this plan went through Jesus Christ, THE WORD, THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD.
Peter declared, "He (Jesus) was foreknown, BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was made manifest in these last time for your sake." -- 1 Peter 1:20. Paul declared the same, "......before time began..." -- 2 Tim. 1:19

We are told this plan stayed hidden, even from the prophets who foretold it, but did not understand what they prophesied; they just followed God's Word. (Eph. 3:5,6...1 Peter 1:1:10-12)

Thus......Jesus was, is and will always be the Messiah. He had to come to earth in the form of Man....literally, in order to live from cradle to grave, perfect sin free in order to fulfill the OLD LAW to the letter. (Phil. 2:5-8)

Without the New Testament of Grace........provided by Jesus Christ, we are still bound to the letter of the law.....hoping that the blood of goats and bulls, and other animal sacrifices will carry our sin over from season to season. There is no remedy for Sin under the Old Testament, no permanent gift of salvation. (Hebrews 9:9-10, 10:4)

I believe that you will be amazed by what was shown to near death experiencer Robert Marshall during the forty three hours and twenty eight minutes in which he reports being mentored by Messiah Yeshua - Jesus. Chapters one and two of his book certainly do help to explain all that you have written.

My Walk With Jesus audio | 44 Hours In Heaven

www.44hoursinheavenministries.org

Home | 44 Hours In Heaven

www.44hoursinheavenministries.org

 

[Clyde 154]

I believe that you will be amazed by what was shown to near death experiencer Robert Marshall during the forty three hours and twenty eight minutes in which he reports being mentored by Messiah Yeshua - Jesus. Chapters one and two of his book certainly do help to explain all that you have written.

My Walk With Jesus audio | 44 Hours In Heaven

www.44hoursinheavenministries.org

Home | 44 Hours In Heaven

www.44hoursinheavenministries.org

I believe the Holy Scriptures. God communicates to man through His revealed WORD, verified and confirmed via the signs and miracles preformed by the Christ and His Apostles in the 1st century. I do not believe that new revelations that contradict the record of the 1st century is delivered by the God of Creation. Thus, I accept the word and consider any supposed Jewish, Christian.......or Muslim faith that was delivered after the Word declared as FALSE DOCTRINE.....God's word has been delivered ONCE FOR ALL TIME, that word was delivered and confirmed via "signs" and "wonders" in the first century. (Jude 1:3)

Consider the record of the first century written word as preserved by the Apostles and Saints (who had been granted supernatural gifts of the Spirit through the laying of hands of an Apostle of Christ, who no longer exist because all of them died in the 1st century and early 2nd century). When the last Apostle passed so did the supernatural gifts of the Spirit. Paul explains this in detail in 1 Cor. Chapter 13.......these gifts were to vanish away after they had completed their purpose, this stated purpose was to deliver Doctrine from God to man in establishing the foundation of the New Testament Church.

Paul recorded through inspiration of the Spirit, 1 Cor. 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child............(reading further along this established subject matter, remaining in context ......Paul goes on to finish this thought) He was pointing out that the church was in its infant stage...but in a short time the church would grow into maturity when that which is PERFECT (Latin....to mean a thing that is completed perfectly) comes that which is part shall be done away with.

"Charity (Love) never fails; but whether there be, prophets, they shall fail, whether there be tongues (the gift of speaking different languages in order to deliver the Word to people who who were not familiar with the tongues of the original church.......as confirmed in the book of Acts 2, tongues were different languages not gibberish, grunts, and pagan like shouting pretending to be speaking in some unknown tongue from Heaven)

Paul goes on........knowledge (supernatural), it will vanish." -- 1 Cor. 13:8

James confirmed the Perfect as being the recorded word when he used the same Latin term in his text with the context describing Perfect as complete The PERFECT ( (James 1:25...."when that which is perfect (Latin, meaning complete......) comes that which is in part shall be done away with."

The Perfect Law of Liberty....the New Testament of Grace has been complete (perfect) since the 1st century.

There are no modern day prophets, signs, wonders, miracles..........none of which existed in the 1st century to help mankind through his/her daily life but existed to Confirm the Kingdom of God was being delivered on earth with Jesus as the King of Kings, to sit in reign forever at the right hand of the Father. The Word guides us today. What was true morality within the bounds of God's Laws are the same today as they were in the 1st century. TRUTH does not evolve.

 

[onefour1]

Jesus was called and foreordained to be the Savior of the world before the foundation of the earth.

1 Peter 1:19-20
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Ether 3:14
Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.

Moses 5:57
For they would not hearken unto his voice, nor believe on his Only Begotten Son, even him whom he declared should come in the meridian of time, who was prepared from before the foundation of the world.

He was the Savior from the beginning.

 

[onefour1]

Jesus is Jehovah of the Old Testament and he declared himself to be the Savior before he was ever born:


Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Hosea 13:4
Yet I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

 

[DennisPTate]

I believe the Holy Scriptures. God communicates to man through His revealed WORD, verified and confirmed via the signs and miracles preformed by the Christ and His Apostles in the 1st century. I do not believe that new revelations that contradict the record of the 1st century is delivered by the God of Creation. Thus, I accept the word and consider any supposed Jewish, Christian.......or Muslim faith that was delivered after the Word declared as FALSE DOCTRINE.....God's word has been delivered ONCE FOR ALL TIME, that word was delivered and confirmed via "signs" and "wonders" in the first century. (Jude 1:3)

Consider the record of the first century written word as preserved by the Apostles and Saints (who had been granted supernatural gifts of the Spirit through the laying of hands of an Apostle of Christ, who no longer exist because all of them died in the 1st century and early 2nd century). When the last Apostle passed so did the supernatural gifts of the Spirit. Paul explains this in detail in 1 Cor. Chapter 13.......these gifts were to vanish away after they had completed their purpose, this stated purpose was to deliver Doctrine from God to man in establishing the foundation of the New Testament Church.

Paul recorded through inspiration of the Spirit, 1 Cor. 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child............(reading further along this established subject matter, remaining in context ......Paul goes on to finish this thought) He was pointing out that the church was in its infant stage...but in a short time the church would grow into maturity when that which is PERFECT (Latin....to mean a thing that is completed perfectly) comes that which is part shall be done away with.

"Charity (Love) never fails; but whether there be, prophets, they shall fail, whether there be tongues (the gift of speaking different languages in order to deliver the Word to people who who were not familiar with the tongues of the original church.......as confirmed in the book of Acts 2, tongues were different languages not gibberish, grunts, and pagan like shouting pretending to be speaking in some unknown tongue from Heaven)

Paul goes on........knowledge (supernatural), it will vanish." -- 1 Cor. 13:8

James confirmed the Perfect as being the recorded word when he used the same Latin term in his text with the context describing Perfect as complete The PERFECT ( (James 1:25...."when that which is perfect (Latin, meaning complete......) comes that which is in part shall be done away with."

The Perfect Law of Liberty....the New Testament of Grace has been complete (perfect) since the 1st century.

There are no modern day prophets, signs, wonders, miracles..........none of which existed in the 1st century to help mankind through his/her daily life but existed to Confirm the Kingdom of God was being delivered on earth with Jesus as the King of Kings, to sit in reign forever at the right hand of the Father. The Word guides us today. What was true morality within the bounds of God's Laws are the same today as they were in the 1st century. TRUTH does not evolve.

What near death experiencer Robert Marshall reports was done for him sure sounds like 2 Corinthians 12 verses one to five to me?

1It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: 2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5Of such a one I will boast; yet of myself I will not boast, except in my infirmities. 6For though I might desire to boast, I will not be a fool; for I will speak the truth. But I refrain, lest anyone should think of me above what he sees me to be or hears from me.

II Corinthians 12 | NKJV Bible | YouVersion

The Vision of ParadiseIt is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to #Acts 16:9; 18:9; 22:17, 18; 23:11; 26:13–15; 27:23visions and #Acts 9:3–6; 1 Cor. 14:6; 2 Cor. 12:7; (

www.bible.com

The type of phenomena that the Apostle Paul refused to rule out as possible might be a good type of phenomena for sincere Christian Theologians to not try to rule out as if they had more understanding of such things than Paul had?

There is a two part formula for the spiritual awakening of this earth.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

Revelation 12 | NKJV Bible | YouVersion

The Woman, the Child, and the DragonNow a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. Then being with child, s

www.bible.com

 

[Clyde 154]

What near death experiencer Robert Marshall reports was done for him sure sounds like 2 Corinthians 12 verses one to five to me?



The type of phenomena that the Apostle Paul refused to rule out as possible might be a good type of phenomena for sincere Christian Theologians to not try to rule out as if they had more understanding of such things than Paul had?

There is a two part formula for the spiritual awakening of this earth.

Truth: Paul was appointed by Jesus Christ as an Apostle to give doctrine as directed by Heaven via inspiration of God's Holy Spirit. He spoke as directed. There was no one more versed in the Old Testament teachings and Law than Paul....aka Saul, who studied under the most respected authority on Jewish Law and Scripture in the 1st century. Gamaliel.

To suggest that any supposed Jewish or Christian Theologian had more knowledge than any Christ Appointed Apostle is exactly the point. One must dismiss the actual content of the Holy Scriptures in some attempt to void the truth delivered through the Holy Spirit of God.

Its clear. God no longer speaks through PROPHECY.......He speaks through the Words delivered by Jesus Christ. (Hebrews 1:1-3), these words were delivered ONCE......not many times over the 21 hundred years since. (Jude 3)

The Faith has been delivered as promised by Jesus Christ. How does God speak to man in the 21st century? In order to reach your conclusions you must suggest that God has not changed His method of delivering truth to man since the beginning. The Holy Scriptures reveal that God has changed His method of communicating with man since the begging.
Examples from the scriptures: With Adam and Moses God spoke "mouth to mouth" directly (Gen. 3:9, Numbers 12:8). With the Old Prophets of antiquity God spoke and directed through Visions and Dreams (Isa. 1:1) But then God declared He no longer speaks directly to man or through the prophets (Heb. 1:1-2)

God speaks through Jesus examples: "He that reject Me, and receives not MY WORDS has one that Judges him; THE WORD THAT I SPOKE.....THE SAME WILL JUDGE HIM ON THE LAST DAY" -- John 12:48

Jesus teaches through His Word as delivered. "Go ye therefore and make disciples of all nations.....TEACHING THEM THINGS THAT I HAVE COMMANDED YOU......." -- Matt. 28:18,19

 

[The Duke]

I e-mailed off the following question to near death experiencer Robert Marshall of "44 Hours in Heaven Ministries"an hour or so ago : "Did Jesus become Messiah at His conception?
Or at His birth?
Or when the Holy Spirit descended on Him like a dove when He was baptized by John the Baptist in the Jordan River?"

Now that I have had an opportunity to give this more thought my opinion at this time is that "The Spirit of Moshiach Stored in Gan Eden" would be given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus at conception. But, then even more of the Holy Spirit or "Spirit of Moshiach" would be given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus at His birth.
But then even more and more of the Holy Spirit was given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus when He was baptized by John the Baptist in the River Jordan. But then even more of the Holy Spirit was given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus while He was fasting for forty days in the wilderness and met The Tempter, [who I assume would be former Covering Cherub Helel who Christians know as Lucifer - Satan].

Then I believe that Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus had a real opportunity to ask for seventy legions of angels as He prayed at Gethsemanie and He was free to play out a different role in life than "Moshiach - Messiah Son of David - Messiah the Passover Lamb. I believe that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus could have put the Yom Kippur event first, and turned that Yom Kippur event into a new year allegorically, but Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus decided to do Messiah Son of David, Messiah the Passover Lamb first two millennia ago and as a result the Holy Spirit, [or can we say The Spirit of Moshiach Stored in Gan Eden], was poured out on Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus, so that He could fulfill a role that no Christian would want to attempt to compete with Him for that role!
....

Can you imagine how insane the Trump Derangement Syndrome People would get if President Donald J. Trump and his team got into some spirituality and theology in their spare time and brought Christian Theologians to a whole new place of cooperation with Rabbi's in Israel?
....

"If the Disciple known as John was a genuine "Christian Prophet" then the soul of "The Spirit of Moshiach stored in Gan Eden" either entered Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus and turned Him into Messiah Yeshua - Jesus at conception, or perhaps at birth, or perhaps at the unusual event of the Holy Spirit coming upon Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus like a "dove" when He was baptized by John the Baptist at the River Jordan?

I personally no longer know for certain exactly when Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus became "Messiah the Passover Lamb - Messiah Son of David," was it even before conception? Was it at His birth? Or was it when He was Baptized by John the Baptist? The full answer to this topic is above my own Security Clearance Level and Pay Scale with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus, [and incidentally when Messiah Yeshua - Jesus appears as The Being of Light of near death experience fame], He often tells whoever He meets about a major piece of the puzzle and then tells them to NOT TELL ANYBODY, what He just showed them was a major piece of the "Genius Master Plan," [as former Atheist and near death experiencer Rabbi Alon Anava terms what the G-d of Abraham has set up for all eight billion of us]?

Here is an article from a Jewish website that has the power to revolutionize the relationship between the vast majority of Christians, [including Pope Leo himself], with ten million Israelis, [or at least with the leading Rabbi's in Israel]?

.....
So now after reading this article we can begin to ask questions that will make much more sense out of the seemingly blasphemous statements that were made by the Disciple John regarding the Pre-Existence of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus, [the Prophet Isa to Muslims, Shalom be upon Him]?

....

Zone1 Post in thread '"For Many are called, but few are chosen." [Jesus]'

Mar 8, 2026

In true Christianity, how you conduct your life and treat others is important and is part of being on the straight and narrow path. From a Christian perspective, we believe that Jesus was Jehovah of the Old Testament.

Exactly!

If the Disciple known as John was a genuine "Christian Prophet" then the soul of "The Spirit of Moshiach stored in Gan Eden" either entered Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus and turned Him into Messiah Yeshua - Jesus at conception, or perhaps at birth, or perhaps at the unusual event of the Holy Spirit coming upon Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus like a "dove" when He was...

• DennisPTate

I am of the belief that Pastor Rick Joyner is one of the most gifted Charismatic Christian visionaries alive on earth at this time. I believe that what Pastor Rick Joyner was shown about a formerly homeless man named "Angelo" gives us a clue as to how more and more and more of the Holy Spirit can be given to us mere humans as we make decisions during our lives.





Here is an article written by an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi that I read twenty some years ago that forced me to think and think and think about this question?

God sent Jesus to be The Messiah.
Wtf you think he tested Abraham for? Shits and giggles?
No! He wanted to see if any of mankind was worth what he was going to do.
Luckily Abraham passed the test for us.

 

[Clyde 154]

Conclusion: Just like everyone dies at his appointed time (ONCE)......everyone dreams. Dreaming is not prophetic its a natural state of being human.