Zone1 Why do Protestants always believe their pastors rather than the 2000 year old CHURCH Christ established?

[K9Buck]

The Catholic view is more or less in line with hell is our own choice--God does not send us there, we choose to go there.

I'd like to see scripture for that belief because Revelation 20 speaks of "throwing" people into the Lake of Fire.

Revelation 20:15 ESV​

And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[Meriweather]

Babies cannot repent anyway.

What do they have to repent? They are simply entering a life in Christ.

 

[Meriweather]

Catholics made up purgatory

Jesus and his Apostles were Jews. Purgatory (or that same idea) was in place long before the Catholic Church.

 

[K9Buck]

Purgatory (or that same idea) was in place long before the Catholic Church.

I do recollect a verse in the Old Testament that lends support to the existence of purgatory. Aside from that one verse, is there any other Biblical support for purgatory?

 

[Meriweather]

Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Saved from what? Saved for what? We can discuss the entire chapter, but note the first verse of Chapter 10.

"Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God on their behalf is for salvation."

Remember, in saying "Jesus is Lord" one is pledging obedience, worship, and zeal. Those are all acts. That means one takes and uses the grace that is offered through salvation and becomes purified (justified).

Life in Christ is never a once and done. It is a constant way of life from then on.

 

[Meriweather]

Maybe, I just wish the Bible said so.

You have faith in the Bible but no faith in baptism? Why is that?

 

[Zincwarrior]

Still trying to figure out the positives from the Catholic Church. Catholics are cool. Their church is a parasite.

 

[Meriweather]

I'd like to see scripture for that belief because Revelation 20 speaks of "throwing" people into the Lake of Fire.

Revelation 20:15 ESV​

And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

People choose life or death. Those choosing death are in Hades. Before your verse, John notes that finally, Death and Hades are thrown into the Lake of Fire. Obviously this means those who chose Death, chose Hades go into the Lake.

The interesting question is whether it is a purifying fire...or only what is evil is consumed. You brought up Hitler earlier. If he is thrown into the Lake of Fire for his many adult sins, will he cease to exist at all? Or, will all his impurities be burned away and perhaps he will continue at a time in his life when he was innocent, good, and even loving? (If there was such a time.)

The Bible doesn't say.

 

[K9Buck]

Saved from what?

I believe that Christians are saved from the post-death experience of the Lake of Fire. I believe that Jesus's sacrifice saved ALL mankind from eternal death.

Is that your belief?

 

[K9Buck]

You have faith in the Bible but no faith in baptism?

I certainly did not state or imply any such thing. There is nothing in the Bible that tells people to baptize their babies.

 

[Meriweather]

Still trying to figure out the positives from the Catholic Church. Catholics are cool. Their church is a parasite.

ChU.R.ch. or You Are the Church. You can't have it both ways. We Catholics are the Church. You either see us all as parasites or you see us all as cool.

Do you paint all Christ's apostles with the same brush as you paint Judas? Judas represents 1/12 of the Apostles. There are over a billion Catholics in the world today. If 1/12 of Jesus' Apostles failed, it is fair to think 1/12 of Catholics today will fail, or over 108 million Catholics. Why paint us all with the same brush? Why not see the good the other 11/12ths of Catholics do every day?

 

[K9Buck]

People choose life or death. Those choosing death are in Hades. Before your verse, John notes that finally, Death and Hades are thrown into the Lake of Fire. Obviously this means those who chose Death, chose Hades go into the Lake.

The interesting question is whether it is a purifying fire...or only what is evil is consumed. You brought up Hitler earlier. If he is thrown into the Lake of Fire for his many adult sins, will he cease to exist at all? Or, will all his impurities be burned away and perhaps he will continue at a time in his life when he was innocent, good, and even loving? (If there was such a time.)

The Bible doesn't say.

Actually, the Bible does say. ALL will be reconciled back to God, that includes Hitler, Satan, and the "fallen" angels & demons.

 

[K9Buck]

. We Catholics are the Church.

All who believe in and who are faithful to Christ are his church. Jesus's church was never, and is NOT, a worldly institution such as the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Meriweather]

I believe that Christians are saved from the post-death experience of the Lake of Fire. I believe that Jesus's sacrifice saved ALL mankind from eternal death.

Is that your belief?

No. The Catholic Church teaches redemption and salvation which leads to purification (justification to use the church term). I don't worry about hell because I am focused on becoming the best person I can be. Redemption closed the schism between God and mankind. Salvation provides the grace to love God and our fellow man, grace to always do what is best for God and the people around us. This is a purifying grace, or as I noted earlier, the wedding garment in which we are clothed in our appearance before God.

There is so much more in the life of Christ than avoiding hell. Look at it this way: Is the purpose of a baseball game to avoid being hit in the eye? Or is the purpose in the game for something greater? In the same way, my purpose is to serve God, not to avoid hell.

Some Protestants seem to think that serving God is "works" to be avoided at all costs and their purpose is to avoid hell. I don't see it that way, any more than I play baseball to avoid being hit by the ball.

 

[K9Buck]

No. The Catholic Church teaches redemption and salvation which leads to purification (justification to use the church term).

What about what Jesus said?

John 6:28-29

English Standard Version

​

28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

 

[Meriweather]

I certainly did not state or imply any such thing. There is nothing in the Bible that tells people to baptize their babies.

Was there a ceremony for Jewish babies entering into the covenant with God?

 

[Meriweather]

What about what Jesus said?

When did we see you and give you food or drink?
When did we see you hungry and thirsty and not offer you food and drink?

 

[K9Buck]

When did we see you and give you food or drink?
When did we see you hungry and thirsty and not offer you food and drink?

Jesus said our only "work" is to believe but it's true that a true follower of Christ is charitable to the needy.

Matthew 7:21-23 also says that even some believers will be turned away by Christ.

However, I disavow any claim wherein one tells another that they must do missionary work or work at a soup kitchen to be saved.

 

[K9Buck]

Was there a ceremony for Jewish babies entering into the covenant with God?

I don't know.

 

[Zincwarrior]

ChU.R.ch. or You Are the Church. You can't have it both ways. We Catholics are the Church. You either see us all as parasites or you see us all as cool.

Do you paint all Christ's apostles with the same brush as you paint Judas? Judas represents 1/12 of the Apostles. There are over a billion Catholics in the world today. If 1/12 of Jesus' Apostles failed, it is fair to think 1/12 of Catholics today will fail, or over 108 million Catholics. Why paint us all with the same brush? Why not see the good the other 11/12ths of Catholics do every day?

Do you support the Church hiding sexually assaulting priests?