Zone1 Why do Protestants always believe their pastors rather than the 2000 year old CHURCH Christ established?

N

notmyfault2020

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2022
Messages
6,542
Reaction score
3,210
Points
893
Jesus promised

"I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it." (Mt 16:18)

I have read the entire Bible and have studied Catholicism and there is nothing contradictory between those 2. But people outside the Catholic Church have been taught to believe (by their human pastors) that there are massive contradictions between those 2 so they unthinkingly believe there are. Why do Protestants choose to believe some non=Catholic over a Catholic? Why is their protestant pastor more believable than the 2000 year old Church?

While not all Catholics understand their Faith, I happen to be one who does. I have knowledge of such things as:

The Ark of the Covenant (OT) ..and how it connects to the present day Tabernacles that house the consecrated Hosts (inside Catholic Churches), so that just as in the old days w/ the Ark of the Covenant and the light perpetually burning in the temple for the Israelites to signify the Presence of God, the tabernacles inside Catholic Churches now house Christ Himself. Transubstantiation is in the Bible.. See where Jesus held the Passover and said that all who ate his flesh, drank his blood (OMG, say the protestants) will have eternal life.. This is the HOST given Catholics at Mass..
 
Funny thing about pastors is that they’re not biblical. Well, pastors may be, but not the pastoral office or role. And pastors only by interpretation. Take this verse, the only one in which some translations inject the term:

And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers. (Eph 4:11)

Shepherds (or pastors, if that’s your fancy) is plural, just as apostles, prophets, evangelists, and teachers are. This passage is directed at a single assembly in Ephesus. In that one assembly were multiple pastors, not just one. It doesn’t support Sola Pastora (single pastor).

This does not describe an office or title. A shepherd tended a family’s flock. He was not set apart from or above the family in some specialized or professional sense. Likewise with the first-century church. Pastors were just a few of the many in the church who served a function. Perhaps, like shepherds, they were the nurturing sort, opening their homes as meeting places or feeding the people. He had no authority. When all are the priesthood of God, no one but Christ alone has authority.

The New Testament doesn’t really define what pastors were; it simply mentions them. So shepherds, of course, would be the logical analogy. They were just parts of the body. The same with priest. But priests in the primitive church were everyone, not just the one guy dressed in black and wearing a backward collar.
 
Last edited:
norwegen said:
Funny thing about pastors is that they’re not biblical. Well, pastors may be, but not the pastoral office or role. And pastors only by interpretation. Take this verse, the only one in which some translations inject the term:

And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers. (Eph 4:11)

Shepherds (or pastors, if that’s your fancy) is plural, just as apostles, prophets, evangelists, and teachers are. This passage is directed at a single assembly in Ephesus. In that one assembly were multiple pastors, not just one. It doesn’t support Sola Pastora (single pastor).

This does not describe an office or title. A shepherd tended a family’s flock. He was not set apart from or above the family in some specialized or professional sense. Likewise with the first-century church. Pastors were just a few of the many in the church who served a function. Perhaps, like shepherds, they were the nurturing sort, opening their homes as meeting places or feeding the people. He had no authority. When all are the priesthood of God, no one but Christ alone has authority.

The New Testament doesn’t really define what pastors were; it simply mentions them. So shepherds, of course, would be the logical analogy. They were just parts of the body. The same with priest. But priests in the primitive church were everyone, not just the one guy dressed in black and wearing a backward collar.
Click to expand...
Well, we weren't there in the beginning years of the Church. Writings from that time period show Catholicism... hate to be the bearer of that bad news but that is a fact. The Eucharist is mentioned in these ancient writings, the Real Presence and other Catholic beliefs. People who read the works of the Early Fathers of the Church are amazed to find Catholic stuff there.. and usually convert. As someone once said "To be deep in history is to cease being Protestant" (Fulton Sheen? not sure..)
 
I think all of Jesus’ half-brothers and half-sisters were from an earlier marriage of Joseph.
If Mary had had other sons, one of them would have taken care of her - but Jesus had John of Zebedee take care of her - so I think Mary only gave birth to Jesus, and that by immaculate conception.
 

Because the 2000 year old church that you are referring to fell into apostasy shortly after the deaths of many of the apostles.​

The Great Apostasy​

Following the death of Jesus Christ, wicked people persecuted and killed many Church members. Other Church members drifted from the principles taught by Jesus Christ and His Apostles. The Apostles were killed, and priesthood authority—including the keys to direct and receive revelation for the Church—was taken from the earth. Because the Church was no longer led by priesthood authority, error crept into Church teachings. Good people and much truth remained, but the gospel as established by Jesus Christ was lost. This period is called the Great Apostasy.
With the death of the Apostles of Jesus Christ, the truth was lost once again.
This apostasy resulted in the formation of many churches with conflicting teachings. During this time, many men and women sought the truth, but they were unable to find it. Many good people believed in God and Jesus Christ and tried to understand and teach truth, but they did not have the full gospel or priesthood authority. As a result, each generation inherited a state of apostasy as people were influenced by what previous generations passed on, including changes to Christ’s gospel.
God knew there would be an apostasy. Through an Old Testament prophet, He said:
“Behold, the days come … that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:
“And [people] shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.”
Amos 8:11–12
Click to expand...
Some inspired people, such as Martin Luther and John Calvin, recognized that practices and doctrines had been changed or lost. They tried to reform the churches to which they belonged. Without priesthood authority, however, Christ’s gospel could not be returned to its original form. A restoration was needed.

Peter taught the following after Christ's resurrection and ascension into heaven:

Acts 3:20-21
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

If Jesus is again to be sent unto us during the times of the restitution of all things, then surely there would be a falling away and a need for a restitution of all things which would necessitate Jesus coming again to restore his gospel. I believe that it was through the Prophet Joseph Smith who is the head of the dispensation of the fulness of times, that Jesus came and restored his gospel again upon the earth.

Ephesians 1:10
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Apostasy of the Early Christian Church​

 
The gates of hell have not prevailed against the church because it was prophesied that there would be a restitution and the Church of Jesus Christ will prevail against the devil and his minions in the end.

Revelation 12:1,5-6
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The woman is the church and the twelve stars are the apostles of the church. The man child is Jesus Christ. The apostasy is the woman fleeing into the wilderness for a thousand two hundred and threescore days. After that a restitution would occur where Jesus is again sent unto us which was before preached unto us. He was to set up his kingdom on the earth again for the last time. In 1820 the Father and the Son appeared unto Joseph Smith and there began the time of the restitution of all things. The priesthood was restored again and the church also. It was called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
 
Protestants believe their Bible. The Church is just fine. Every believer is part of the Church, not an organization. The Catholic Church is a business just like the Mormon religion and the Jehovah's Witnesses religion.
 
Thors Provoni said:
I think all of Jesus’ half-brothers and half-sisters were from an earlier marriage of Joseph.
If Mary had had other sons, one of them would have taken care of her - but Jesus had John of Zebedee take care of her - so I think Mary only gave birth to Jesus, and that by immaculate conception.
Click to expand...
I don't know that Joseph had kids by a previous marriage. ? That is not mentioned in the Bible that I recall. But you are correct that Mary never lost her virginity..
 
onefour1 said:

Because the 2000 year old church that you are referring to fell into apostasy shortly after the deaths of many of the apostles.​

The Great Apostasy​

Rom. 11:21; 1 Cor. 1:11; 3:3; Col. 2:22; 1 Tim. 1:19; Titus 1:10; 2 Pet. 2:22; 3 Jn. 1:9; Rev. 2:5; 1 Ne. 11:34.
Click to expand...

you believe a falsehood.

Jesus promised that His Church (which obviously goes back to the time of Jesus) would not fail. "I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it"

A lot of theologians have said that the gates of hell is heresy.. Protestantism was once called that. But now we have the very wise Francis to tell us that the ancient teachings were wrong... What did we do for 2000 years before he came along? :uhoh3::dunno:
 
notmyfault2020 said:
I don't know that Joseph had kids by a previous marriage. ? That is not mentioned in the Bible that I recall. But you are correct that Mary never lost her virginity..
Click to expand...
Scripture says Joseph didn't know Mary UNTIL she had given birth to Jesus.
Matthew 1:25.
 
BS Filter said:
Protestants believe their Bible. The Church is just fine. Every believer is part of the Church, not an organization. The Catholic Church is a business just like the Mormon religion and the Jehovah's Witnesses religion.
Click to expand...
No, the TRUE Catholic Church is a CHURCH

The Vatican was stolen from the Catholics 64 years ago... so if you are saying the Vatican is a business.. true.
 
BS Filter said:
Scripture says Joseph didn't know Mary UNTIL she had given birth to Jesus.
Click to expand...
big deal. Scirpture also says that a woman "had no children until the day she died." Did she have children after she died?
 
notmyfault2020 said:
No, the TRUE Catholic Church is a CHURCH

The Vatican was stolen from the Catholics 64 years ago... so if you are saying the Vatican is a business.. true.
Click to expand...
The word Catholic means "Universal". In that regard, the Church is Universal. All of us who have faith in Jesus for salvation.
 
notmyfault2020 said:
big deal. Scirpture also says that a woman "had no children until the day she died." Did she have children after she died?
Click to expand...
"a woman" wasn't speaking of Mary. Be honest. If you need to be dishonest, then you're not a Bible scholar, you're a cultist. Mary had other children with Joseph. I believe the Scripture.
 
notmyfault2020 said:
Jesus promised

"I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it." (Mt 16:18)

I have read the entire Bible and have studied Catholicism and there is nothing contradictory between those 2. But people outside the Catholic Church have been taught to believe (by their human pastors) that there are massive contradictions between those 2 so they unthinkingly believe there are. Why do Protestants choose to believe some non=Catholic over a Catholic? Why is their protestant pastor more believable than the 2000 year old Church?

While not all Catholics understand their Faith, I happen to be one who does. I have knowledge of such things as:

The Ark of the Covenant (OT) ..and how it connects to the present day Tabernacles that house the consecrated Hosts (inside Catholic Churches), so that just as in the old days w/ the Ark of the Covenant and the light perpetually burning in the temple for the Israelites to signify the Presence of God, the tabernacles inside Catholic Churches now house Christ Himself. Transubstantiation is in the Bible.. See where Jesus held the Passover and said that all who ate his flesh, drank his blood (OMG, say the protestants) will have eternal life.. This is the HOST given Catholics at Mass..
Click to expand...
The short answer to the thread title is simple. They believe their pastors because their churches are part of the Church that Christ founded. As I've told you multiple times and you've refused to deal with, His Church extends far beyond man's artificial denominational boundaries and is found in all who follow Him. The name on the door is irrelevant to that.
 
BS Filter said:
"a woman" wasn't speaking of Mary. Be honest. If you need to be dishonest, then you're not a Bible scholar, you're a cultist. Mary had other children with Joseph. I believe the Scripture.
Click to expand...
no she didn't. The Church Christ founded taught otherwise and still does. The Vatican is NOT the Catholic Church so I couldn't care less what the past5 or 6 fake popes have said.

Christ founded His Church and it survives but most people don't know where it is anymore.. it's the end times so some of us are not terribly surprised that the lawless, Godless ones would take over the Vatican and call themselves Catholic
 
15th post
BS Filter said:
"a woman" wasn't speaking of Mary. Be honest. If you need to be dishonest, then you're not a Bible scholar, you're a cultist. Mary had other children with Joseph. I believe the Scripture.
Click to expand...
You have to stretch pretty far to deny what it says.
 
notmyfault2020 said:
no she didn't. The Church Christ founded taught otherwise and still does. The Vatican is NOT the Catholic Church so I couldn't care less what the past5 or 6 fake popes have said.

Christ founded His Church and it survives but most people don't know where it is anymore.. it's the end times so some of us are not terribly surprised that the lawless, Godless ones would take over the Vatican and call themselves Catholic
Click to expand...
Christ's Church extends far beyond man's artificial denominational boundaries.
 
notmyfault2020 said:
no she didn't. The Church Christ founded taught otherwise and still does. The Vatican is NOT the Catholic Church so I couldn't care less what the past5 or 6 fake popes have said.

Christ founded His Church and it survives but most people don't know where it is anymore.. it's the end times so some of us are not terribly surprised that the lawless, Godless ones would take over the Vatican and call themselves Catholic
Click to expand...
Nice rant, but you forgot to address the point that Scripture disagrees with you.
 
notmyfault2020 said:
Jesus promised

"I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it." (Mt 16:18)

I have read the entire Bible and have studied Catholicism and there is nothing contradictory between those 2. But people outside the Catholic Church have been taught to believe (by their human pastors) that there are massive contradictions between those 2 so they unthinkingly believe there are. Why do Protestants choose to believe some non=Catholic over a Catholic? Why is their protestant pastor more believable than the 2000 year old Church?

While not all Catholics understand their Faith, I happen to be one who does. I have knowledge of such things as:

The Ark of the Covenant (OT) ..and how it connects to the present day Tabernacles that house the consecrated Hosts (inside Catholic Churches), so that just as in the old days w/ the Ark of the Covenant and the light perpetually burning in the temple for the Israelites to signify the Presence of God, the tabernacles inside Catholic Churches now house Christ Himself. Transubstantiation is in the Bible.. See where Jesus held the Passover and said that all who ate his flesh, drank his blood (OMG, say the protestants) will have eternal life.. This is the HOST given Catholics at Mass..
Click to expand...

Catholics who take the Bible literally, are a danger to society, since clearly the Bible is a fake collection of deliberately manipulated manuscripts.
If Catholicism was real, then we would not have had Crusades, Inquisitions, Conquistadors, witch burnings, torture, or even any wars at all.

The truth is that it is unlikely that a single Jesus even existed at all.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

I Would Not Want to Be The Little Sister of Jesus

< Previous Thread

So for the first time I am watching one of those "casual pastors". In jeans, t-short, gold...

Next Thread >

Similar threads

DennisPTate
  • Poll Poll
Zone1 Is the Baptist and Reform Theology approach to NDE accounts going to cause...
Replies
2
Views
122
DennisPTate
DennisPTate
DennisPTate
  • Poll Poll
Zone1 Transsubstantiation?
Replies
5
Views
193
DennisPTate
DennisPTate
DGS49
Zone1 The Roman Catholic Church in the U.S. Is Doomed (apparently)
Replies
15
Views
471
zaangalewa
zaangalewa
C
Zone1 Why do members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Baptize for the Dead?
25 26 27
Replies
529
Views
5K
Cougarbear
C
forkintheroad7
Zone1 Why do Protestants "always" try to insult Catholics?
2 3 4
Replies
63
Views
1K
Votto
Votto

New Topics

Latest Discussions

Back
Top Bottom