Why did Christians build Churches over existing Pagan temples?

[Penelope]

I don't believe non of what you say. I know the Jewish hatred of Rome and Greek as well,

Antisemitism is incompatible with the christian religion. Facts are: Since the early third century Jews were citizens of Rome (= Romans). And lots of Jews are very famous in philosophy and sciences (=Greeks). Only because you hate people you don't know on no reasons to do so - so you are a shame for all mankind - doesn't mean others hate what you admire and don't understand the same time.

Yet the question remains, who are the jews. . Now would you call Philo of Alexandria a Jew, or how about the Alexander family, one was Emperor's Titus's general . How about the Herods? Some sources say more jews lived in Alexandria during the first half of the first century than in Judea.

Philo of Alexandria was a jew. The Alexander family were roman pagans. The Herods were Edomites. During the first
century AD----lots of jews were being killed or enslaved by Romans. I doubt that there was an actual census---lots of jews traveled back and forth between ---Judea ---and Alexandria and Babylon and Lebanon and Yemen at that time
because of the barbaric roman oppression in Judea. At that time there were even jews migrating to parts of Europe---generally the Rhine Valley---also to what is now Turkey and
the Indian subcontinent

Funny they came from the same family

Very little is known about the life of Philo. He lived in Alexandria, which at that time counted, according to some estimates, about one million people and included largest Jewish community outside of Palestine. He came from a wealthy and the prominent family and appears to be a leader in his community. Once he visited Jerusalem and the temple, as he himself stated in Prov. 2.64. Philo's brother, Alexander, was a wealthy, prominent Roman government official, a custom agent responsible for collecting dues on all goods imported into Egypt from the East. He donated money to plate the gates of the temple in Jerusalem with gold and silver. He also made a loan to Herod Agrippa I, grandson of Herod the Great. Alexander's two sons, Marcus and Tiberius Julius Alexander were involved in Roman affairs. Marcus married Bernice, the daughter of Herod Agrippa I, who is mentioned in Acts (25:13, 23; 26:30). The other son, Tiberius Julius Alexander, described by Josephus as "not remaining true to his ancestral practices" became procurator of the province of Judea (46-48 C.E.) and prefect of Egypt (66-70 C.E.). Philo was involved in the affairs of his community which interrupted his contemplative life (Spec. leg. 3.1-6), especially during the crisis relating to the pogrom which was initiated in 38 C.E. by the prefect Flaccus, during the reign of emperor Gaius Caligula. He was elected to head the Jewish delegation, which apparently included his brother Alexander and nephew Tiberius Julius Alexander, and was sent to Rome in 39-40 B.C.E. to see the emperor. He reported the events in his writings Against Flaccus and The Embassy to Gaius.


Philo of Alexandria | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

yeah? so? You described Philo and family well enough--
considering that which is available----as a kind of typical ---albeit wealthy jewish family of Alexandria. Here or there some of the members did not adhere to Judaism as closely as
JOSEPHUS would consider----"good" WE STILL GOSSIP THUS ---TODAY. ------they adhered enough to want to donate
valuable stuff to the Temple in Jerusalem------the marriages
you describe where kosher enough-----there was a BERENICE princess like thing of the time related to one of
the Herods-----------who was notable as a very devout jewess----historically-----of Edomite background----who spent her youth
in Rome------as did Herod--(the great one----I think--don't quote me)--. Edomites as that time were----mostly assimilated into the Jewish population. It is not clear to me of what import you imagine your "information" to be

Forced you mean, by a Maccabee.

 

[irosie91]

Well they have so many definitions, even Jews do not know what or who is a jew, they even fight about it.

good point------jews fight over details---LOTS-----as in DEBATE----Christians fight over details----LOTS and in the course of those
fights have killed millions of each other-----probably more like
hundreds of millions in the miserable history of Christianity----
especially --the Catholics and EO's Interestingly----in the millennia of jewish history----internecine fighting resulted in
a negligible a number of deaths------lots of yelling----but little
violence

 

[irosie91]

Antisemitism is incompatible with the christian religion. Facts are: Since the early third century Jews were citizens of Rome (= Romans). And lots of Jews are very famous in philosophy and sciences (=Greeks). Only because you hate people you don't know on no reasons to do so - so you are a shame for all mankind - doesn't mean others hate what you admire and don't understand the same time.

Yet the question remains, who are the jews. . Now would you call Philo of Alexandria a Jew, or how about the Alexander family, one was Emperor's Titus's general . How about the Herods? Some sources say more jews lived in Alexandria during the first half of the first century than in Judea.

Philo of Alexandria was a jew. The Alexander family were roman pagans. The Herods were Edomites. During the first
century AD----lots of jews were being killed or enslaved by Romans. I doubt that there was an actual census---lots of jews traveled back and forth between ---Judea ---and Alexandria and Babylon and Lebanon and Yemen at that time
because of the barbaric roman oppression in Judea. At that time there were even jews migrating to parts of Europe---generally the Rhine Valley---also to what is now Turkey and
the Indian subcontinent

Funny they came from the same family

Very little is known about the life of Philo. He lived in Alexandria, which at that time counted, according to some estimates, about one million people and included largest Jewish community outside of Palestine. He came from a wealthy and the prominent family and appears to be a leader in his community. Once he visited Jerusalem and the temple, as he himself stated in Prov. 2.64. Philo's brother, Alexander, was a wealthy, prominent Roman government official, a custom agent responsible for collecting dues on all goods imported into Egypt from the East. He donated money to plate the gates of the temple in Jerusalem with gold and silver. He also made a loan to Herod Agrippa I, grandson of Herod the Great. Alexander's two sons, Marcus and Tiberius Julius Alexander were involved in Roman affairs. Marcus married Bernice, the daughter of Herod Agrippa I, who is mentioned in Acts (25:13, 23; 26:30). The other son, Tiberius Julius Alexander, described by Josephus as "not remaining true to his ancestral practices" became procurator of the province of Judea (46-48 C.E.) and prefect of Egypt (66-70 C.E.). Philo was involved in the affairs of his community which interrupted his contemplative life (Spec. leg. 3.1-6), especially during the crisis relating to the pogrom which was initiated in 38 C.E. by the prefect Flaccus, during the reign of emperor Gaius Caligula. He was elected to head the Jewish delegation, which apparently included his brother Alexander and nephew Tiberius Julius Alexander, and was sent to Rome in 39-40 B.C.E. to see the emperor. He reported the events in his writings Against Flaccus and The Embassy to Gaius.


Philo of Alexandria | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

yeah? so? You described Philo and family well enough--
considering that which is available----as a kind of typical ---albeit wealthy jewish family of Alexandria. Here or there some of the members did not adhere to Judaism as closely as
JOSEPHUS would consider----"good" WE STILL GOSSIP THUS ---TODAY. ------they adhered enough to want to donate
valuable stuff to the Temple in Jerusalem------the marriages
you describe where kosher enough-----there was a BERENICE princess like thing of the time related to one of
the Herods-----------who was notable as a very devout jewess----historically-----of Edomite background----who spent her youth
in Rome------as did Herod--(the great one----I think--don't quote me)--. Edomites as that time were----mostly assimilated into the Jewish population. It is not clear to me of what import you imagine your "information" to be

Forced you mean, by a Maccabee.

nope----the Maccabees fought the greeks-----notably the
King ANTIOCHUS---who vigorously attempted to destroy
the jewish religion-----by planting idols in the Temple---
and outlawing jewish practices-----his method of choice to
end circumcision was to tie any circumcised baby found to
the neck of his mother and throw both off a high wall----one of the methods that excited the greek virgins of Artemis-----your fave. Later on-----war fare between Edom and Judah
continued-----as it had for hundreds of years-----some of the
political rulers WERE descendants of the Maccabees----but
corrupted-----and disgraced ----one of their more perverse--
albeit----short lived actions was persecution of edomites who
had not YET assimilated into the general jewish population.
Aside from that action----they were accused of financial
corruption. Herod was an ASSIMILATED Edomite----he was
not "forced"------but did evince enough "edom" to make him
to be considered unfit for rule by the general jewish population.. One could look upon his beheading of
John the Baptist as------too damned Edomite
to be a king. ---It was a political act-----involving "aristocrats and princes------Judean, Edomite and Roman-----a pile of them
intermarried and of lots of different personal agendas.

 

[LittleNipper]

Christianity, no different than Islam..

Yea, cos the odds of you being blown up by a Muslim is only like about 2 million times more and all.

Yet ironically more military personel died coming back home through violent street crimes committed mostly by people wearing cross necklaces and cross tatoos.

Many Christians frown upon tattoos. You cannot change what the Bible clearly says.

Isaiah 53:1-12

1 Who believes our report?
To whom is the arm of Adonai revealed?
2 For before him he grew up like a young plant,
like a root out of dry ground.
He was not well-formed or especially handsome;
we saw him, but his appearance did not attract us.
3 People despised and avoided him,
a man of pains, well acquainted with illness.
Like someone from whom people turn their faces,
he was despised; we did not value him.

4 In fact, it was our diseases he bore,
our pains from which he suffered;
yet we regarded him as punished,
stricken and afflicted by God.
5 But he was wounded because of our crimes,
crushed because of our sins;
the disciplining that makes us whole fell on him,
and by his bruises* we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, went astray;
we turned, each one, to his own way;
yet Adonai laid on him
the guilt of all of us.

7 Though mistreated, he was submissive —
he did not open his mouth.
Like a lamb led to be slaughtered,
like a sheep silent before its shearers,
he did not open his mouth.
8 After forcible arrest and sentencing,
he was taken away;
and none of his generation protested
his being cut off from the land of the living
for the crimes of my people,
who deserved the punishment themselves.
9 He was given a grave among the wicked;
in his death he was with a rich man.

Although he had done no violence
and had said nothing deceptive,
10 yet it pleased Adonai to crush him with illness,
to see if he would present himself as a guilt offering.
If he does, he will see his offspring;
and he will prolong his days;
and at his hand Adonai’s desire
will be accomplished.
11 After this ordeal, he will see satisfaction.
“By his knowing [pain and sacrifice],
my righteous servant makes many righteous;
it is for their sins that he suffers.
12 Therefore I will assign him a share with the great,
he will divide the spoil with the mighty,
for having exposed himself to death
and being counted among the sinners,
while actually bearing the sin of many
and interceding for the offenders.”

 

[irosie91]

Christianity, no different than Islam..

Yea, cos the odds of you being blown up by a Muslim is only like about 2 million times more and all.

Yet ironically more military personel died coming back home through violent street crimes committed mostly by people wearing cross necklaces and cross tatoos.

Many Christians frown upon tattoos. You cannot change what the Bible clearly says.

there are Christians who reject tattoos for biblical reasons?

 

[irosie91]

Christianity, no different than Islam..

Yea, cos the odds of you being blown up by a Muslim is only like about 2 million times more and all.

Yet ironically more military personel died coming back home through violent street crimes committed mostly by people wearing cross necklaces and cross tatoos.

Many Christians frown upon tattoos. You cannot change what the Bible clearly says.

Isaiah 53:1-12

1 Who believes our report?
To whom is the arm of Adonai revealed?
2 For before him he grew up like a young plant,
like a root out of dry ground.
He was not well-formed or especially handsome;
we saw him, but his appearance did not attract us.
3 People despised and avoided him,
a man of pains, well acquainted with illness.
Like someone from whom people turn their faces,
he was despised; we did not value him.

4 In fact, it was our diseases he bore,
our pains from which he suffered;
yet we regarded him as punished,
stricken and afflicted by God.
5 But he was wounded because of our crimes,
crushed because of our sins;
the disciplining that makes us whole fell on him,
and by his bruises* we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, went astray;
we turned, each one, to his own way;
yet Adonai laid on him
the guilt of all of us.

7 Though mistreated, he was submissive —
he did not open his mouth.
Like a lamb led to be slaughtered,
like a sheep silent before its shearers,
he did not open his mouth.
8 After forcible arrest and sentencing,
he was taken away;
and none of his generation protested
his being cut off from the land of the living
for the crimes of my people,
who deserved the punishment themselves.
9 He was given a grave among the wicked;
in his death he was with a rich man.

Although he had done no violence
and had said nothing deceptive,
10 yet it pleased Adonai to crush him with illness,
to see if he would present himself as a guilt offering.
If he does, he will see his offspring;
and he will prolong his days;
and at his hand Adonai’s desire
will be accomplished.
11 After this ordeal, he will see satisfaction.
“By his knowing [pain and sacrifice],
my righteous servant makes many righteous;
it is for their sins that he suffers.
12 Therefore I will assign him a share with the great,
he will divide the spoil with the mighty,
for having exposed himself to death
and being counted among the sinners,
while actually bearing the sin of many
and interceding for the offenders.”

seems to me that Isaiah was writing an autobiography or someone ELSE wrote it-----as a kind of eulogy of Isaiah.
Isaiah had a tough life. He was in the midst of ongoing
violence between Egypt and Assyria----(Judea and Israel)
being between and various tenuous poorly conceived
"ALLIANCES" ---things were worse over that at that time
than they are in Syria now.-----the shifting and desperate
alliances----kinda similar. I have a sense that some person
other than Isaiah wrote it but it got mixed into the writings
of Isaiah because it is ABOUT HIM

 

[aris2chat]

Christianity, no different than Islam..

Yea, cos the odds of you being blown up by a Muslim is only like about 2 million times more and all.

Yet ironically more military personel died coming back home through violent street crimes committed mostly by people wearing cross necklaces and cross tatoos.

Many Christians frown upon tattoos. You cannot change what the Bible clearly says.

Isaiah 53:1-12

1 Who believes our report?
To whom is the arm of Adonai revealed?
2 For before him he grew up like a young plant,
like a root out of dry ground.
He was not well-formed or especially handsome;
we saw him, but his appearance did not attract us.
3 People despised and avoided him,
a man of pains, well acquainted with illness.
Like someone from whom people turn their faces,
he was despised; we did not value him.

4 In fact, it was our diseases he bore,
our pains from which he suffered;
yet we regarded him as punished,
stricken and afflicted by God.
5 But he was wounded because of our crimes,
crushed because of our sins;
the disciplining that makes us whole fell on him,
and by his bruises* we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, went astray;
we turned, each one, to his own way;
yet Adonai laid on him
the guilt of all of us.

7 Though mistreated, he was submissive —
he did not open his mouth.
Like a lamb led to be slaughtered,
like a sheep silent before its shearers,
he did not open his mouth.
8 After forcible arrest and sentencing,
he was taken away;
and none of his generation protested
his being cut off from the land of the living
for the crimes of my people,
who deserved the punishment themselves.
9 He was given a grave among the wicked;
in his death he was with a rich man.

Although he had done no violence
and had said nothing deceptive,
10 yet it pleased Adonai to crush him with illness,
to see if he would present himself as a guilt offering.
If he does, he will see his offspring;
and he will prolong his days;
and at his hand Adonai’s desire
will be accomplished.
11 After this ordeal, he will see satisfaction.
“By his knowing [pain and sacrifice],
my righteous servant makes many righteous;
it is for their sins that he suffers.
12 Therefore I will assign him a share with the great,
he will divide the spoil with the mighty,
for having exposed himself to death
and being counted among the sinners,
while actually bearing the sin of many
and interceding for the offenders.”

Proselytizing again????
















"My gods better than your god" Is that what you sing in the morning shower?

ear plugs please

 

[irosie91]

Christianity, no different than Islam..

Yea, cos the odds of you being blown up by a Muslim is only like about 2 million times more and all.

Yet ironically more military personel died coming back home through violent street crimes committed mostly by people wearing cross necklaces and cross tatoos.

Many Christians frown upon tattoos. You cannot change what the Bible clearly says.

Isaiah 53:1-12

1 Who believes our report?
To whom is the arm of Adonai revealed?
2 For before him he grew up like a young plant,
like a root out of dry ground.
He was not well-formed or especially handsome;
we saw him, but his appearance did not attract us.
3 People despised and avoided him,
a man of pains, well acquainted with illness.
Like someone from whom people turn their faces,
he was despised; we did not value him.

4 In fact, it was our diseases he bore,
our pains from which he suffered;
yet we regarded him as punished,
stricken and afflicted by God.
5 But he was wounded because of our crimes,
crushed because of our sins;
the disciplining that makes us whole fell on him,
and by his bruises* we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, went astray;
we turned, each one, to his own way;
yet Adonai laid on him
the guilt of all of us.

7 Though mistreated, he was submissive —
he did not open his mouth.
Like a lamb led to be slaughtered,
like a sheep silent before its shearers,
he did not open his mouth.
8 After forcible arrest and sentencing,
he was taken away;
and none of his generation protested
his being cut off from the land of the living
for the crimes of my people,
who deserved the punishment themselves.
9 He was given a grave among the wicked;
in his death he was with a rich man.

Although he had done no violence
and had said nothing deceptive,
10 yet it pleased Adonai to crush him with illness,
to see if he would present himself as a guilt offering.
If he does, he will see his offspring;
and he will prolong his days;
and at his hand Adonai’s desire
will be accomplished.
11 After this ordeal, he will see satisfaction.
“By his knowing [pain and sacrifice],
my righteous servant makes many righteous;
it is for their sins that he suffers.
12 Therefore I will assign him a share with the great,
he will divide the spoil with the mighty,
for having exposed himself to death
and being counted among the sinners,
while actually bearing the sin of many
and interceding for the offenders.”

Proselytizing again????

It's legal in the USA Ask any JW

 

[HaShev]

Christianity, no different than Islam..

Yea, cos the odds of you being blown up by a Muslim is only like about 2 million times more and all.

Yet ironically more military personel died coming back home through violent street crimes committed mostly by people wearing cross necklaces and cross tatoos.

Many Christians frown upon tattoos. You cannot change what the Bible clearly says.

Isaiah 53:1-12

1 Who believes our report?
To whom is the arm of Adonai revealed?
2 For before him he grew up like a young plant,
like a root out of dry ground.
He was not well-formed or especially handsome;
we saw him, but his appearance did not attract us.
3 People despised and avoided him,
a man of pains, well acquainted with illness.
Like someone from whom people turn their faces,
he was despised; we did not value him.

4 In fact, it was our diseases he bore,
our pains from which he suffered;
yet we regarded him as punished,
stricken and afflicted by God.
5 But he was wounded because of our crimes,
crushed because of our sins;
the disciplining that makes us whole fell on him,
and by his bruises* we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, went astray;
we turned, each one, to his own way;
yet Adonai laid on him
the guilt of all of us.

7 Though mistreated, he was submissive —
he did not open his mouth.
Like a lamb led to be slaughtered,
like a sheep silent before its shearers,
he did not open his mouth.
8 After forcible arrest and sentencing,
he was taken away;
and none of his generation protested
his being cut off from the land of the living
for the crimes of my people,
who deserved the punishment themselves.
9 He was given a grave among the wicked;
in his death he was with a rich man.

Although he had done no violence
and had said nothing deceptive,
10 yet it pleased Adonai to crush him with illness,
to see if he would present himself as a guilt offering.
If he does, he will see his offspring;
and he will prolong his days;
and at his hand Adonai’s desire
will be accomplished.
11 After this ordeal, he will see satisfaction.
“By his knowing [pain and sacrifice],
my righteous servant makes many righteous;
it is for their sins that he suffers.
12 Therefore I will assign him a share with the great,
he will divide the spoil with the mighty,
for having exposed himself to death
and being counted among the sinners,
while actually bearing the sin of many
and interceding for the offenders.”

Why would you post off topic Isaiah 53 a proven lie by proselytizers?
Isaiah 53:9 is about the servants of God not a Moshiach. Israel was despised while Jesus was demed popular in NT, he also didn't have a disease, so he can not be the plural past tense in Isaiah 53.
53 is about Israel Plural past tense not singular future tense. Context of Isaiah Israel is God's servant 14 times mentioned as such. Read the OT verses through the Tanakh not through pagan rewrites.
Always read in full context, and don't trust what you are taught, learn from your own research. Today's political media slants and rewrites should give you a good example as to why not to trust info from people with motive to reinvent stuff for their own benefit and affiliation.

sources:

It cannot be a match to Jesus with the Christian Bible showing a man who was supposedly "praised by all"(Luke 2 :52, Luke 4:14-15) and followed by multitudes (Matt. 4:25). So then according to Christian standards Israel must be referred to since Israel is Called God's servant throughout Isaiah, both explicitly (Isa. 41:8-9; 44:1-2; 45:4; 48:20; 49:3) and implicitly (Isa. 42:19-20; 43:10, 52:13) In 53:1 "And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" 52:15 - 53:1 "So shall he (the servant) startle many nations, the kings will stand speechless; For that which had not been told them they shall see and that which they had not heard shall they ponder. Who would believe what we have heard?" In chapter 52, for example, ACCORDING TO History it's Israel "oppressed without cause" (v.4) and "taken away" (v.5).
Context also talks of Israel being disfigured and unrecognizable whether the people in deathcamps or Israel boundries being disfigured and unrecognizable Israel best fits Isaiah 53.

 

[HaShev]

Christianity, no different than Islam..

Yea, cos the odds of you being blown up by a Muslim is only like about 2 million times more and all.

Yet ironically more military personel died coming back home through violent street crimes committed mostly by people wearing cross necklaces and cross tatoos.

Many Christians frown upon tattoos. You cannot change what the Bible clearly says.

there are Christians who reject tattoos for biblical reasons?

Uh oh, Jesus is in trouble, he has a picture of himself on his left shoulder blade.

 

[irosie91]

Christianity, no different than Islam..

Yea, cos the odds of you being blown up by a Muslim is only like about 2 million times more and all.

Yet ironically more military personel died coming back home through violent street crimes committed mostly by people wearing cross necklaces and cross tatoos.

Many Christians frown upon tattoos. You cannot change what the Bible clearly says.

Isaiah 53:1-12

1 Who believes our report?
To whom is the arm of Adonai revealed?
2 For before him he grew up like a young plant,
like a root out of dry ground.
He was not well-formed or especially handsome;
we saw him, but his appearance did not attract us.
3 People despised and avoided him,
a man of pains, well acquainted with illness.
Like someone from whom people turn their faces,
he was despised; we did not value him.

4 In fact, it was our diseases he bore,
our pains from which he suffered;
yet we regarded him as punished,
stricken and afflicted by God.
5 But he was wounded because of our crimes,
crushed because of our sins;
the disciplining that makes us whole fell on him,
and by his bruises* we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, went astray;
we turned, each one, to his own way;
yet Adonai laid on him
the guilt of all of us.

7 Though mistreated, he was submissive —
he did not open his mouth.
Like a lamb led to be slaughtered,
like a sheep silent before its shearers,
he did not open his mouth.
8 After forcible arrest and sentencing,
he was taken away;
and none of his generation protested
his being cut off from the land of the living
for the crimes of my people,
who deserved the punishment themselves.
9 He was given a grave among the wicked;
in his death he was with a rich man.

Although he had done no violence
and had said nothing deceptive,
10 yet it pleased Adonai to crush him with illness,
to see if he would present himself as a guilt offering.
If he does, he will see his offspring;
and he will prolong his days;
and at his hand Adonai’s desire
will be accomplished.
11 After this ordeal, he will see satisfaction.
“By his knowing [pain and sacrifice],
my righteous servant makes many righteous;
it is for their sins that he suffers.
12 Therefore I will assign him a share with the great,
he will divide the spoil with the mighty,
for having exposed himself to death
and being counted among the sinners,
while actually bearing the sin of many
and interceding for the offenders.”

Why would you post off topic Isaiah 53 a proven lie by proselytizers?
Isaiah 53:9 is about the servants of God not a Moshiach. Israel was despised while Jesus was demed popular in NT, he also didn't have a disease, so he can not be the plural past tense in Isaiah 53.
53 is about Israel Plural past tense not singular future tense. Context of Isaiah Israel is God's servant 14 times mentioned as such. Read the OT verses through the Tanakh not through pagan rewrites.
Always read in full context, and don't trust what you are taught, learn from your own research. Today's political media slants and rewrites should give you a good example as to why not to trust info from people with motive to reinvent stuff for their own benefit and affiliation.

sources:

It cannot be a match to Jesus with the Christian Bible showing a man who was supposedly "praised by all"(Luke 2 :52, Luke 4:14-15) and followed by multitudes (Matt. 4:25). So then according to Christian standards Israel must be referred to since Israel is Called God's servant throughout Isaiah, both explicitly (Isa. 41:8-9; 44:1-2; 45:4; 48:20; 49:3) and implicitly (Isa. 42:19-20; 43:10, 52:13) In 53:1 "And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" 52:15 - 53:1 "So shall he (the servant) startle many nations, the kings will stand speechless; For that which had not been told them they shall see and that which they had not heard shall they ponder. Who would believe what we have heard?" In chapter 52, for example, ACCORDING TO History it's Israel "oppressed without cause" (v.4) and "taken away" (v.5).
Context also talks of Israel being disfigured and unrecognizable whether the people in deathcamps or Israel boundries being disfigured and unrecognizable Israel best fits Isaiah 53.

hashev----Christian theologians seem very TENTATIVE on
who liked and who disliked Jesus. Somehow "the people"
loved him -----but the Pharisees hated him. ??? "THE
PEOPLE" are not defined----but THEY were his followers----
living right there in Judea----but -----THE JEWS hated him and wanted him dead----or maybe it was the Pharisees who wanted him dead. The Pharisees according to sunday school
teachers were OPPRESSING ---"the people"

 

[HaShev]

Told by the Romans, but in actuality there is no historical evidence especially since Jesus didn't exist. Yehuda the Galilean and Theudas were both revolters against Rome so, Rome hated them, but Pharisee were indifferent or part of the revolution.
Perhaps the hate is for Yeshu of 100bc for doing Benny Hinn like magic scams?
But Yeshu was a Pharisee himself which is why he fled to Egypt during the 88BC revolt.
Some of his lansmen (not all in generalization) hated Yeshu and perhaps since this is Rome's favored character in the triny of characters they DISPLACE BLAME and demonize the people who they are subverting devotion and taking spiritual authority away from.

 

[aris2chat]

Christianity, no different than Islam..

Yea, cos the odds of you being blown up by a Muslim is only like about 2 million times more and all.

Yet ironically more military personel died coming back home through violent street crimes committed mostly by people wearing cross necklaces and cross tatoos.

Many Christians frown upon tattoos. You cannot change what the Bible clearly says.

Isaiah 53:1-12

1 Who believes our report?
To whom is the arm of Adonai revealed?
2 For before him he grew up like a young plant,
like a root out of dry ground.
He was not well-formed or especially handsome;
we saw him, but his appearance did not attract us.
3 People despised and avoided him,
a man of pains, well acquainted with illness.
Like someone from whom people turn their faces,
he was despised; we did not value him.

4 In fact, it was our diseases he bore,
our pains from which he suffered;
yet we regarded him as punished,
stricken and afflicted by God.
5 But he was wounded because of our crimes,
crushed because of our sins;
the disciplining that makes us whole fell on him,
and by his bruises* we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, went astray;
we turned, each one, to his own way;
yet Adonai laid on him
the guilt of all of us.

7 Though mistreated, he was submissive —
he did not open his mouth.
Like a lamb led to be slaughtered,
like a sheep silent before its shearers,
he did not open his mouth.
8 After forcible arrest and sentencing,
he was taken away;
and none of his generation protested
his being cut off from the land of the living
for the crimes of my people,
who deserved the punishment themselves.
9 He was given a grave among the wicked;
in his death he was with a rich man.

Although he had done no violence
and had said nothing deceptive,
10 yet it pleased Adonai to crush him with illness,
to see if he would present himself as a guilt offering.
If he does, he will see his offspring;
and he will prolong his days;
and at his hand Adonai’s desire
will be accomplished.
11 After this ordeal, he will see satisfaction.
“By his knowing [pain and sacrifice],
my righteous servant makes many righteous;
it is for their sins that he suffers.
12 Therefore I will assign him a share with the great,
he will divide the spoil with the mighty,
for having exposed himself to death
and being counted among the sinners,
while actually bearing the sin of many
and interceding for the offenders.”

Proselytizing again????

It's legal in the USA Ask any JW

Not on forums like this, unless they say so.

Discuss the bible, don't quote the bible page by page. This forum site is not a church pulpit.

find a "christian" site, who want to hear the bible quoted to them.

 

[LittleNipper]

Christianity, no different than Islam..

Yea, cos the odds of you being blown up by a Muslim is only like about 2 million times more and all.

Yet ironically more military personel died coming back home through violent street crimes committed mostly by people wearing cross necklaces and cross tatoos.

Many Christians frown upon tattoos. You cannot change what the Bible clearly says.

Isaiah 53:1-12

1 Who believes our report?
To whom is the arm of Adonai revealed?
2 For before him he grew up like a young plant,
like a root out of dry ground.
He was not well-formed or especially handsome;
we saw him, but his appearance did not attract us.
3 People despised and avoided him,
a man of pains, well acquainted with illness.
Like someone from whom people turn their faces,
he was despised; we did not value him.

4 In fact, it was our diseases he bore,
our pains from which he suffered;
yet we regarded him as punished,
stricken and afflicted by God.
5 But he was wounded because of our crimes,
crushed because of our sins;
the disciplining that makes us whole fell on him,
and by his bruises* we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, went astray;
we turned, each one, to his own way;
yet Adonai laid on him
the guilt of all of us.

7 Though mistreated, he was submissive —
he did not open his mouth.
Like a lamb led to be slaughtered,
like a sheep silent before its shearers,
he did not open his mouth.
8 After forcible arrest and sentencing,
he was taken away;
and none of his generation protested
his being cut off from the land of the living
for the crimes of my people,
who deserved the punishment themselves.
9 He was given a grave among the wicked;
in his death he was with a rich man.

Although he had done no violence
and had said nothing deceptive,
10 yet it pleased Adonai to crush him with illness,
to see if he would present himself as a guilt offering.
If he does, he will see his offspring;
and he will prolong his days;
and at his hand Adonai’s desire
will be accomplished.
11 After this ordeal, he will see satisfaction.
“By his knowing [pain and sacrifice],
my righteous servant makes many righteous;
it is for their sins that he suffers.
12 Therefore I will assign him a share with the great,
he will divide the spoil with the mighty,
for having exposed himself to death
and being counted among the sinners,
while actually bearing the sin of many
and interceding for the offenders.”

Why would you post off topic Isaiah 53 a proven lie by proselytizers?
Isaiah 53:9 is about the servants of God not a Moshiach. Israel was despised while Jesus was demed popular in NT, he also didn't have a disease, so he can not be the plural past tense in Isaiah 53.
53 is about Israel Plural past tense not singular future tense. Context of Isaiah Israel is God's servant 14 times mentioned as such. Read the OT verses through the Tanakh not through pagan rewrites.
Always read in full context, and don't trust what you are taught, learn from your own research. Today's political media slants and rewrites should give you a good example as to why not to trust info from people with motive to reinvent stuff for their own benefit and affiliation.

sources:

It cannot be a match to Jesus with the Christian Bible showing a man who was supposedly "praised by all"(Luke 2 :52, Luke 4:14-15) and followed by multitudes (Matt. 4:25). So then according to Christian standards Israel must be referred to since Israel is Called God's servant throughout Isaiah, both explicitly (Isa. 41:8-9; 44:1-2; 45:4; 48:20; 49:3) and implicitly (Isa. 42:19-20; 43:10, 52:13) In 53:1 "And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" 52:15 - 53:1 "So shall he (the servant) startle many nations, the kings will stand speechless; For that which had not been told them they shall see and that which they had not heard shall they ponder. Who would believe what we have heard?" In chapter 52, for example, ACCORDING TO History it's Israel "oppressed without cause" (v.4) and "taken away" (v.5).
Context also talks of Israel being disfigured and unrecognizable whether the people in deathcamps or Israel boundries being disfigured and unrecognizable Israel best fits Isaiah 53.

If you do not change your attacks of the Lord Jesus Christ, I see a very terrible bleak eternity for you. You are a seemingly lost individual or a nut. I prefer to think that perhaps you are simply a troll searching for truth and are digging to find it. The Bible is very clear, and doesn't need your distortions or you twists to reveal the truth. The Messiah is the light of the world. The Bible clearly says that ALL are lost and come short of God's glory. Everyone needs a SAVIOR. Who exactly is yours? Isaiah 53 is about ONLY ONE individual and not many. Sin is a disease that infects EVERYONE. This is the disease Jesus born on the cross as the only perfect sacrifice. Sorry, but the passage was copied from a Complete Jewish Bible --- Your are presenting the falsehood and not me.

 

[LittleNipper]

Yea, cos the odds of you being blown up by a Muslim is only like about 2 million times more and all.

Yet ironically more military personel died coming back home through violent street crimes committed mostly by people wearing cross necklaces and cross tatoos.

Many Christians frown upon tattoos. You cannot change what the Bible clearly says.

Isaiah 53:1-12

1 Who believes our report?
To whom is the arm of Adonai revealed?
2 For before him he grew up like a young plant,
like a root out of dry ground.
He was not well-formed or especially handsome;
we saw him, but his appearance did not attract us.
3 People despised and avoided him,
a man of pains, well acquainted with illness.
Like someone from whom people turn their faces,
he was despised; we did not value him.

4 In fact, it was our diseases he bore,
our pains from which he suffered;
yet we regarded him as punished,
stricken and afflicted by God.
5 But he was wounded because of our crimes,
crushed because of our sins;
the disciplining that makes us whole fell on him,
and by his bruises* we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, went astray;
we turned, each one, to his own way;
yet Adonai laid on him
the guilt of all of us.

7 Though mistreated, he was submissive —
he did not open his mouth.
Like a lamb led to be slaughtered,
like a sheep silent before its shearers,
he did not open his mouth.
8 After forcible arrest and sentencing,
he was taken away;
and none of his generation protested
his being cut off from the land of the living
for the crimes of my people,
who deserved the punishment themselves.
9 He was given a grave among the wicked;
in his death he was with a rich man.

Although he had done no violence
and had said nothing deceptive,
10 yet it pleased Adonai to crush him with illness,
to see if he would present himself as a guilt offering.
If he does, he will see his offspring;
and he will prolong his days;
and at his hand Adonai’s desire
will be accomplished.
11 After this ordeal, he will see satisfaction.
“By his knowing [pain and sacrifice],
my righteous servant makes many righteous;
it is for their sins that he suffers.
12 Therefore I will assign him a share with the great,
he will divide the spoil with the mighty,
for having exposed himself to death
and being counted among the sinners,
while actually bearing the sin of many
and interceding for the offenders.”

Proselytizing again????

It's legal in the USA Ask any JW

Not on forums like this, unless they say so.

Discuss the bible, don't quote the bible page by page. This forum site is not a church pulpit.

find a "christian" site, who want to hear the bible quoted to them.

This is a religious forum. It is not for you to stipulate what is religious. And it most certainly is not YOUR forum to tell others what is worthy for print. If you do not like what I post, DON'T read it or switch to another channel --- to coin a "liberal" disclaimer! PS> The government may manipulate the public school system but it doesn't control this website -------- at least not yet!

 

[HaShev]

Little nipper,

you always attack the poster trying to demonize them and their religion instead of the addressing or refuting the discussion topic or Bible verses or historical references used. THIS MEANS=you are the one lost needing straightening up.
Put your money where your mouth is and bring Jesus to the forum to debate me.
Well? Didn't think so, which means you are deflecting what you can't admit is in you onto other people you can't defend against.
Stick to the topics or admit your defeat by your ad hominem responses.

 

[shimon]

Sticking to the topic on this thread Just to set the record straight it was a Roman practise to build over a conquered people's monuments and edifices this shows that Christianity was firmly under Roman control...The Romans were notorious for shaming groups this way and showing them who is the boss and who is in control...If one is truthfull then one can also see that this was done by the Romans who controlled Christianity towards Israel by the Romans BUIlDING over the Jewish scriptures by PLACING their New Testament on top of the Old Testament on the RIGHT side and claiming the old is the foundation and their New Testament is resting on top or beside it with their Jesus( logos or word) superseding it... That was the ultimate in building over they didn't even need a building although one could say the Vatican in Rome over Jerusalem and the temple was probably to make doubly sure....

 

[HaShev]

Agree, people need to study their history on Rome and notice a pattern emerges and thus see how they worked on other cultures like the Veeians (spell?) matches what they did to Israel. Even displacing blame back to the victims which interesting enough still goes on today even in these forums.

 

[LittleNipper]

Sticking to the topic on this thread Just to set the record straight it was a Roman practise to build over a conquered people's monuments and edifices this shows that Christianity was firmly under Roman control...The Romans were notorious for shaming groups this way and showing them who is the boss and who is in control...If one is truthfull then one can also see that this was done by the Romans who controlled Christianity towards Israel by the Romans BUIlDING over the Jewish scriptures by PLACING their New Testament on top of the Old Testament on the RIGHT side and claiming the old is the foundation and their New Testament is resting on top or beside it with their Jesus( logos or word) superseding it... That was the ultimate in building over they didn't even need a building although one could say the Vatican in Rome over Jerusalem and the temple was probably to make doubly sure....

The answer is obvious --- at least to me. When "Christianity" became the religion of "choice" for the Roman Empire, pagans left the temples looking to be "politically correct." You have a perfectly good building going to waste or a crumbling one from which one could apply a solid foundation and or salvage marble blocks, etc., in a choice local in town. The pagans feel comfortable in their old surroundings even if the message is different...

As for placing the New Testament over the Old, It must be understood that the New Testament fulfills the Old. The New depends on the Old. The entire Bible is HIS story --- the Messiah appears everywhere in its pages. The Bible explains why we need Salvation, where this Savior would be born, to what tribe of humans all this would occur, and how this would all come about.

The entire Bible is all about Christ.

i love to tell the story - Bing video

 

[shimon]

Thanks little Nipper you proved my points in spades... You are a perfect example of the Roman con that CONstantine and his ilk foisted on the world...As long as the " slaves" bought the story( CON) all was well and the Roman edifices prospered and grew... Capeche...