Why Are Americans and Conservatives So Afraid of Socialism?

[Hang on Sloopy]

1. Completely false.

2. Completely false.

3. Since 1 and 2 are completely false, it follows that 3 is also completely false.

Name one Western Democracy where either 1 or 2 is true.

Stick with fashion and kitty cats....lol

 

[KoolKolt]

I have looked into socialism a lot but I would like to know what socialism means to you, coming from a right and left perspective.

 

[Auld Phart]

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[flacaltenn]

So then redistributing wealth upward from the worker to the rich capitalist is doomed to failure? I agree. Funding your bosses profits with your surplus production is doomed to failure? Again, I agree.

First of all -- in Capitalism -- both bosses and workers are SERVING SOCIETY by producing welcomed and needed goods that folks VOLUNTARILY buy. The "bosses" make educated guesses as to what society NEEDS -- instead of having bureaucrats do that by spreadsheet and blind luck in socialism. And BOSSES -- take all the risk and fork up the investment. In Socialism, the people have no real say in what the govt invests in because the BUREAUCRACY (minions of morons) largely determine the needs of society. And the INVESTMENT comes OUT OF PEOPLES POCKETS !!!!

And what is this "your SURPLUS production" crap? The only REAL "labor surplus production" is DOING more and CARING more than other workers. For which you'll likely get promotions/raises. In socialism -- just like the Union system, EVERYBODY GETS THE SAME regardless of levels of "doing and caring".. Just like the Post Office and DMV "help desks" -- the workers become faceless automatons.

 

[BS Filter]

First of all -- in Capitalism -- both bosses and workers are SERVING SOCIETY by producing welcomed and needed goods that folks VOLUNTARILY buy. The "bosses" make educated guesses as to what society NEEDS -- instead of having bureaucrats do that by spreadsheet and blind luck in socialism. And BOSSES -- take all the risk and fork up the investment. In Socialism, the people have no real say in what the govt invests in because the BUREAUCRACY (minions of morons) largely determine the needs of society. And the INVESTMENT comes OUT OF PEOPLES POCKETS !!!!

And what is this "your SURPLUS production" crap? The only REAL "labor surplus production" is DOING more and CARING more than other workers. For which you'll likely get promotions/raises. In socialism -- just like the Union system, EVERYBODY GETS THE SAME regardless of levels of "doing and caring".. Just like the Post Office and DMV "help desks" -- the workers become faceless automatons.

And the cost of waste and inefficiency is greater because no one has invested anything of their own. Naive supporters of socialism never understand this.

 

[Senter]

First of all -- in Capitalism -- both bosses and workers are SERVING SOCIETY by producing welcomed and needed goods that folks VOLUNTARILY buy. The "bosses" make educated guesses as to what society NEEDS -- instead of having bureaucrats do that by spreadsheet and blind luck in socialism. And BOSSES -- take all the risk and fork up the investment. In Socialism, the people have no real say in what the govt invests in because the BUREAUCRACY (minions of morons) largely determine the needs of society. And the INVESTMENT comes OUT OF PEOPLES POCKETS !!!!

And what is this "your SURPLUS production" crap? The only REAL "labor surplus production" is DOING more and CARING more than other workers. For which you'll likely get promotions/raises. In socialism -- just like the Union system, EVERYBODY GETS THE SAME regardless of levels of "doing and caring".. Just like the Post Office and DMV "help desks" -- the workers become faceless automatons.

It's a wonderful story you have there. Nice. I love fantasies too.

 

[Senter]

First of all -- in Capitalism -- both bosses and workers are SERVING SOCIETY by producing welcomed and needed goods that folks VOLUNTARILY buy. The "bosses" make educated guesses as to what society NEEDS -- instead of having bureaucrats do that by spreadsheet and blind luck in socialism. And BOSSES -- take all the risk and fork up the investment. In Socialism, the people have no real say in what the govt invests in because the BUREAUCRACY (minions of morons) largely determine the needs of society. And the INVESTMENT comes OUT OF PEOPLES POCKETS !!!!

And what is this "your SURPLUS production" crap? The only REAL "labor surplus production" is DOING more and CARING more than other workers. For which you'll likely get promotions/raises. In socialism -- just like the Union system, EVERYBODY GETS THE SAME regardless of levels of "doing and caring".. Just like the Post Office and DMV "help desks" -- the workers become faceless automatons.

Heh. Yeah. Ok. Enjoy these...

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The capitalist is taking a bigger and bigger share of revenue resulting from productivity. The rate of change is unsustainable.

 

[Senter]

First of all -- in Capitalism -- both bosses and workers are SERVING SOCIETY by producing welcomed and needed goods that folks VOLUNTARILY buy. The "bosses" make educated guesses as to what society NEEDS -- instead of having bureaucrats do that by spreadsheet and blind luck in socialism. And BOSSES -- take all the risk and fork up the investment. In Socialism, the people have no real say in what the govt invests in because the BUREAUCRACY (minions of morons) largely determine the needs of society. And the INVESTMENT comes OUT OF PEOPLES POCKETS !!!!

And what is this "your SURPLUS production" crap?

Oh. Sorry. You don't know what surplus labor is. I didn't mean to talk over your head.

Surplus labor means anything that doesn't go to the worker. So it includes maintenance costs, revenue to fund the workers who produce no revenue-generating product like accountants, the janitor, corporate officers, utilities, profits, etc.

 

[dblack]

Oh. Sorry. You don't know what surplus labor is. I didn't mean to talk over your head.

Surplus labor means anything that doesn't go to the worker. So it includes maintenance costs, revenue to fund the workers who produce no revenue-generating product like accountants, the janitor, corporate officers, utilities, profits, etc.

Of course this all rests on the obviously false premise that only manual labor generates revenue.

 

[Senter]

Of course this all rests on the obviously false premise that only manual labor generates revenue.

Of course you're entirely wrong. There's intellectual labor for example. I was one for over 20 years.

 

[dblack]

Of course you're entirely wrong. There's intellectual labor for example. I was one for over 20 years.

Uh huh. The entire premise of Marxist ideology is that anyone facilitating the production of a product (managing, directing, distributing, selling, funding, etc ...), isn't really working. They're just leaching "surplus labor" from those who do.

 

[Senter]

Uh huh. The entire premise of Marxist ideology is that anyone facilitating the production of a product (managing, directing, distributing, selling, funding, etc ...), isn't really working. They're just leaching "surplus labor" from those who do.

Not true. Marx recognized that, for example, someone who is distributing production is working. They are just not producing goods to distribute, but they are a necessary part of the process and doing work.

He acknowledged that the worker producing the product depends on workers doing non-productive work, like janitors and repairmen, whether the economic system is capitalism, socialism, or communism.

 

[BrokeLoser]

So then redistributing wealth upward from the worker to the rich capitalist is doomed to failure? I agree. Funding your bosses profits with your surplus production is doomed to failure? Again, I agree.

Is there a reason you shameless beggars won’t just cut to the chase and say…”Why do you productive, self funded, independent, accountable, positive contributors stand in the way of Father Government spoon feeding us taxpayer dependent degenerates for life?”

 

[dblack]

Not true. Marx recognized that, for example, someone who is distributing production is working. They are just not producing goods to distribute, but they are a necessary part of the process and doing work.

He acknowledged that the worker producing the product depends on workers doing non-productive work, like janitors and repairmen, whether the economic system is capitalism, socialism, or communism.

You defined surplus labor in those terms.

 

[BS Filter]

Is there a reason you shameless beggars won’t just cut to the chase and say…”Why do you productive, self funded, independent, accountable, positive contributors stand in the way of Father Government spoon feeding us taxpayer dependent degenerates for life?”

That's exactly who they are. Parasites.

 

[Senter]

Is there a reason you shameless beggars won’t just cut to the chase and say…”Why do you productive, self funded, independent, accountable, positive contributors stand in the way of Father Government spoon feeding us taxpayer dependent degenerates for life?”

YES there's a reason. We don't lie about such things. Those are all lies and bullshit by clueless dopes.

 

[Senter]

You defined surplus labor in those terms.

When? Where?

 

[dblack]

When? Where?

Oh jeez. You're one of those.

No, I'm not going to go back and quote you. If you choose denial, so be it. I'm not chasing around.

 

[Senter]

Oh jeez. You're one of those.

No, I'm not going to go back and quote you. If you choose denial, so be it. I'm not chasing around.

It's not denial. I just don't know WTF you're talking about. No need to quote anything. Just say it.

goddam jerks

 

[flacaltenn]

Oh. Sorry. You don't know what surplus labor is. I didn't mean to talk over your head.

Surplus labor means anything that doesn't go to the worker. So it includes maintenance costs, revenue to fund the workers who produce no revenue-generating product like accountants, the janitor, corporate officers, utilities, profits, etc.

Oh the bullshit is deep with this one. Accountants dont count for any revenue? How is utilities "surplus labor cost"? You're killing your own argument here about evil capitalism. Because EVERYTHING you mentioned is "corporate overhead" -- NOTHING TO DO with labor costs. And certainly all those things dont AFFECT labor costs BECAUSE they are ESSENTIAL..