Why Are Americans and Conservatives So Afraid of Socialism?

[Big Bend Texas]

What an interesting blog article on American ideas about civil responsibility and the knee jerk reaction of Americans generally, and Conservatives specifically, to fear community welfare and immediately associate it with socialism or communism. It led to her asking “What are you so afraid of?”, and she received 5 specific groups of fears:

1. I’m scared of having to pay for other people’s laziness
2. I’m scared because I don’t trust my government or other people generally
3. I’m scared because socialism leads to authoritarianism
4. I’m scared because socialists and communists kill a lot of people
5. I’m not scared, socialism always fails

She has some good responses to these fears that I can’t do just to for a short attention span. Read the link if you want. I think these fears keep America from being a great and caring nation.

Why Are Americans and Conservatives So Afraid of Socialism?
I went a little bit viral on TikTok recently for voicing the unthinkable: I said that I like paying taxes. As you might imagine, the Americans and Conservatives in my comment section were shocked and appalled. The words communist and socialist were thrown around like insults, images of gulags and famine were invoked to prove some kind of vague and poorly-articulated point about freedom.

In contrast, the (predominantly western/northern) Europeans seemed to find my explanation pretty fair and even stopped to correct me on some of the finer points of Scottish, Scandinavian and German socialist democracy.

What shocked me, however, was not that so many Americans and Conservatives seemed to misunderstand fundamental aspects of civil life — like taxation — but that so many seemed so vehemently opposed to any suggestion that we should all contribute to the collective welfare of our countrymen.

Curiosity piqued, yesterday I made the mistake of asking Americans and Conservatives: “What is it about communism/socialism that scares you?” Here’s what they said.

Because we're not stupid.

Socialism strips the whole of society of our most basic rights.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Uh huh. The entire premise of Marxist ideology is that anyone facilitating the production of a product (managing, directing, distributing, selling, funding, etc ...), isn't really working. They're just leaching "surplus labor" from those who do.

That is of course entirely untrue.

Surplus labour - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Basically his theory was that if a worker had to perform any labor beyond that which provide his/her upkeep it was "Surplus Labor".

 

[Smokin' OP]

Self-proclaimed "conservatives" aren't afraid of socialism.
They love corporate socialism.

 

[flacaltenn]

PJ O'Rourke just died. One of my favorite authors because of sharp satirical wit. In his book "Eat the Rich" he outlined the scenario where the employees took the CEO out to parking lot, tar and feathered him and rode him out of town in a rail car. I dont remember the company/CEO -- but lets say Firestone Tire. Probably has 8 different companies around the world and "SAY" 30,000 employees.

They demand to SPLIT his salary equally. Which is say $1.2Million in cash. That's $40 a year for each worker. About 1/3 of the cheapest Firestone tire. Then the following year, Firestone loses just 5% or $22Million in sales, because the "Marxist worker board" that replaces him makes a couple boo-boos. That's a loss of $733 per employee or a FULL SET of top model Firestone tires.

So they just LOST nearly 20 YEARS of their bonus for shipping out the CEO... Cool huh?

Good thing we have Marxists to fix all that.

I've done that before with REAL company numbers, but not motivated to find the book and get the original example or do a new one because this thread isn't going anywhere fast.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Self-proclaimed "conservatives" aren't afraid of socialism.
They love corporate socialism.

Dumbest statement I've seen yet this week but, it's still early.

 

[22lcidw]

Self-proclaimed "conservatives" aren't afraid of socialism.
They love corporate socialism.

In privileged jobs a percentage are bums. Two people earning the same wage with one sitting on their asses compared to another who works and gives something back for salary. The person on their ass may even move up without much doing anything. This exists. It exists on the private side with people who are supposed to fix problems in their products. It is bad when half the people then in the past are those fixers who really can do it with the rest there for equity.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

In privileged jobs a percentage are bums. Two people earning the same wage with one sitting on their asses compared to another who works and gives something back for salary. The person on their ass may even move up without much doing anything. This exists. It exists on the private side with people who are supposed to fix problems in their products. It is bad when half the people then in the past are those fixers who really can do it with the rest there for equity.

You just described about half the jobs in the Federal Gov't.

 

[scruffy]

So then redistributing wealth upward from the worker to the rich capitalist is doomed to failure? I agree. Funding your bosses profits with your surplus production is doomed to failure? Again, I agree.

This is how commies think. ^^^

As if there were some kind of difference between the worker and the rich capitalist.

This is bullshit European thinking, and we don't subscribe to that kind of crap on this side of the pond. We don't like royalty. Everyone is the same over here. The poor become rich, the rich become poor.

As far as "funding your bosses", EVERYONE you do business with is going to take a cut, a piece of the action. The corporate employment model gives you a choice, you can trade away a little extra so you don't have to be out there negotiating the vig all the time. Some people don't like haggling, they consider it to be unnecessary overhead.

But, you have a choice. You are FREE to strike out on your own, go into business for yourself, that way, you have no bosses but you have to haggle a lot.

The point being, here you have a choice. There you don't

 

[Smokin' OP]

Dumbest statement I've seen yet this week but, it's still early.

Try this one.

September 26 2016
"The only years that anybody's ever seen were a couple of years when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying to get a casino license, and they showed he didn't pay any federal income tax," Clinton said.

Trump quickly retorted: "That makes me smart."

Later, when Clinton told Trump was that "maybe ... you haven't paid any federal income tax for a lot of years," the real estate mogul, who claims to be worth up to $10 billion, said that he was a better steward for his money than the government.

"It would be squandered, too, believe me," Trump said.

Then Trump proved it.

December 24 2020
Donald Trump has arrived at his Palm Beach, Florida, resort for the 31st golf vacation there of his presidency, raising the taxpayer-funded travel and security total for his hobby to $151.5 million.

Trump has already played golf on his own properties 289 times since taking office in January 2017, although he claimed during his 2016 campaign that he would not have time for a vacation at all. “I just want to stay in the White House and work my ass off,” he said in February 2016.

 

[flacaltenn]

That is of course entirely untrue.

Surplus labour - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Basically his theory was that if a worker had to perform any labor beyond that which provide his/her upkeep it was "Surplus Labor".

THAT -- sounds more authentic and Karl-like. Although the concept of "upkeep" probably is salary/benefits.

The question of what labor is WORTH is less complicated when the TOTALITARIAN GOVT it takes make Marxism work -- CAN SET THE PRICE OF GOODS. Which I'm sure his fans think is a GOOD thing. But it's REALLY REALLY not.

Because in REALITY -- what those workers are paid is not determined by the capitalist company at all -- it's determined by that lady that WANTS a dishwasher. And what SHE is willing to pay to it. And the laborers reimbursement SHOULD be a % of that price.

Which is why we got into DEEP KimChee when corporations shipped manufacturing to China because the WHOLE world took that bait. EVEN CHINA doesn't rely on cheap labor anymore and have moved AHEAD of us in automation.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Try this one.

September 26 2016
"The only years that anybody's ever seen were a couple of years when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying to get a casino license, and they showed he didn't pay any federal income tax," Clinton said.

Trump quickly retorted: "That makes me smart."

Later, when Clinton told Trump was that "maybe ... you haven't paid any federal income tax for a lot of years," the real estate mogul, who claims to be worth up to $10 billion, said that he was a better steward for his money than the government.

"It would be squandered, too, believe me," Trump said.

Then Trump proved it.

December 24 2020
Donald Trump has arrived at his Palm Beach, Florida, resort for the 31st golf vacation there of his presidency, raising the taxpayer-funded travel and security total for his hobby to $151.5 million.

Trump has already played golf on his own properties 289 times since taking office in January 2017, although he claimed during his 2016 campaign that he would not have time for a vacation at all. “I just want to stay in the White House and work my ass off,” he said in February 2016.

And we should care about this why? What does it have to do with the subject of this thread at all?

 

[scruffy]

It's not denial. I just don't know WTF you're talking about. No need to quote anything. Just say it.

goddam jerks

We're just not ready to subscribe to your troll games today.

I don't like commies.

Commies are thieves.

And most often, murderers too.

 

[Smokin' OP]

This is how commies think. ^^^

As if there were some kind of difference between the worker and the rich capitalist.

This is bullshit European thinking, and we don't subscribe to that kind of crap on this side of the pond. We don't like royalty. Everyone is the same over here. The poor become rich, the rich become poor.

As far as "funding your bosses", EVERYONE you do business with is going to take a cut, a piece of the action. The corporate employment model gives you a choice, you can trade away a little extra so you don't have to be out there negotiating the vig all the time. Some people don't like haggling, they consider it to be unnecessary overhead.

But, you have a choice. You are FREE to strike out on your own, go into business for yourself, that way, you have no bosses but you have to haggle a lot.

The point being, here you have a choice. There you don't

WTF?
You think Europeans can't choose what they want to do for a living?

 

[Smokin' OP]

And we should care about this why?

Of course, you would say that.
Republican whining about socialism, except when they're the ones receiving it.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

WTF?
You think Europeans can't choose what they want to do for a living?

They have a two track educational system. You only get to take the college track if you qualify, the rest get technical or skill related training.

Breaking out of that system is next to impossible unless your family is rich enough to send you to private school.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Of course, you would say that.
Republican whining about socialism, except when they're the ones receiving it.

Are you just trolling again or do you have absolutely no clue what "socialism" is? Or both?

 

[Smokin' OP]

And we should care about this why? What does it have to do with the subject of this thread at all?

Givers and takers.
A lot of people pay taxes so this lazy, fat fuck can golf for almost a year of his presidency.

 

[Smokin' OP]

Are you just trolling again or do you have absolutely no clue what "socialism" is? Or both?

Oh' it's only socialism when poor people need government $$$?

You have no clue.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Givers and takers.
A lot of people pay taxes so this lazy, fat fuck can golf for almost a year of his presidency.

What he paid in taxes or didn't nor his golfing habits have anything at all to do with socialism.

I don't see you getting knotted up over Biden running home to Delaware every weekend or over Obama's jet set vacationing while he was in in the WH.

Perks of the job are not "socialism".

 

[Smokin' OP]

They have a two track educational system. You only get to take the college track if you qualify, the rest get technical or skill related training.

So, in the US you either have the $$$ or you don't, for advanced education.

Breaking out of that system is next to impossible unless your family is rich enough to send you to private school.

Next to impossible in the US too but it can be done, Europe is no exception.