Why an atheist

[Grumblenuts]

the 20th century was the worst for human morality........

Sure sure, just compare homicide rates over centuries!

Homicides

How common are homicides? How does this differ across countries? And how is this changing over time? Explore global data on homicides.

ourworldindata.org

 

[buckeye45_73]

Sure sure, just compare homicide rates over centuries!

Homicides

How common are homicides? How does this differ across countries? And how is this changing over time? Explore global data on homicides.

ourworldindata.org

Really, so you got things worse than millions being tortured and killed........and the NAzis had much lower numbers than Stalin or Mao..........and that's just the big 3, not even talking about Cambodia, Vietnam, North Korea, Middle East, ect..........this is within 100 years of today......and you complain about some guy in Rome or Greece in 300BC?

 

[Grumblenuts]

So you don't care to acknowledge that homicide rates have declined..
I know,.. let's examine war!

War and Peace

How common are armed conflict and peace between and within countries? How is this changing over time? Explore research and data on war and peace.

ourworldindata.org

Or does genuine statistical analysis just make your bwain all hurty?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

.the 20th century was the worst for human morality......

No it wasn't. You are out of your mind. Genocide and war has been with the human race since the beginning. The 20th century was the first without slavery, where blacks and women could vote, for example. Or maybe you think that's all bad. Give it up bro.

You guys have been carrying around the same instruction book for thousands of years. Yet our morality has improved greatly. What changed? Not your iron age mythology. That only leaves one thing.

Superior, secular morality arising from classical liberalism, aristotelean and hellenic thought, scientific enlightenment, etc.

Your dusty old book is worthless now. We have no need of it to form good morality. Put away the children's toys and grow up.

 

[buckeye45_73]

No it wasn't. You are out of your mind. Genocide and war has been with the human race since the beginning. The 20th century was the first without slavery, where blacks and women could vote, for example. Or maybe you think that's all bad. Give it up bro.

You guys have been carrying around the same instruction book for thousands of years. Yet our morality has improved greatly. What changed? Not your iron age mythology. That only leaves one thing.

Superior, secular morality arising from classical liberalism, aristotelean and hellenic thought, scientific enlightenment, etc.

Your dusty old book is worthless now. We have no need of it to form good morality. Put away the children's toys and grow up.

Without slavery? uh.........you know slavery happens and has happend in places other than the United States, right? And you gloss over the Holocaust and what STalin an Mao did, yep really progressing with that atheism......it's really a good thing......you are a total loon

 

[Clyde 154]

Opinion: If an honest atheist is willing to examine the actual facts, one of 2 things will happen. He/she will cease being an atheist or he/she will stop being honest.

The facts as professed by an atheist. Everything came from nothing. The atheist claims as fact that an explosion caused universal order by random design. Life just popped into existence from non-life. The atheist says that fish and frogs are man's distant forefathers. That intelligence is the result of non-intelligence. The atheist claims that man is on no more of a moral plane than wild animals, that morality as exists today evolved from amoral animals such as monkeys and other creatures (yet there is no example of morality existing in the animal kingdom). The atheist thinks that it is tax money well spent in the millions and billions of dollars in the search for ET.......which has never been found. (Its like a dog chasing its own tail or a dog chasing a semi-truck down the highway........what would they do once they caught it?). Apparently its all about the chase.

When you actually strip the atheist away from his/her pompous proclamations and arrogant allegations..........the naked soul is very visible in its nakedness......weak, unscientific, illogical, and worthless. For of what value is a belief in nothing?

Really, a "blind groping belief" that life and existence came from NOTHING...it kind'a matches the entire ideology in a nutshell. The atheist turns that blind eye to science when it falsifies, time and time the theory that life came from non-life that it can't be generated from non-life after countless experimental attempts to do as much, in reality: Science has demonstrated that life can only be reproduced from pre-existing life within the same species, and that fact of science has existed since at least the 19th century. Yet......the atheist still clings to a disproven theory.

Is it of any wonder that David said, "The fool has said in his heart.........THERE IS NO GOD." -- Ps. 14:1

Conclusion: "For since the creation of the world His (God) invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened; PROFESSING TO BE WISE THEY BECAME FOOLS."

 

[BreezeWood]

I am. And yes they are. By every definition we use in the real world, yours notwithstanding.

It's our entire society, and the codes we make. Yes, they are far superior to the primitive attempts that relied on our first and worst attempts at ethics and morality that are the iron age mythologies.

no, you are including everyone in your misapprehension the desert religions were ever anything other than political discourse disguised as religion. they are dead and are not mythological in any way shape or form - they are as dead as atheism.

polytheistic mythology is how life became physical with a spiritual content, save those deniers that whether they like it or not can not stop the evolutionary march other than by their species going extinct - as a pointless act of incomprehensible stupidity - ff / nuts.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Without slavery? uh.........you know slavery happens and has happend in places other than the United States, right?

You know, playing stupid never actually advances your point.

And people sure did try to use the Bible to keep slavery. And segregation. And to prevent women's suffrage. Thankfulky, we improved our morality quite in spite of them and their gross iron age handbook.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

no, you are including everyone in your misapprehension the desert religions were ever anything other than political discourse disguised as religion

They were and are religion. Because that's what they are. That's what people use them for. The end. Moving on....

 

[buckeye45_73]

You know, playing stupid never actually advances your point.

And people sure did try to use the Bible to keep slavery. And segregation. And to prevent women's suffrage. Thankfulky, we improved our morality quite in spite of them and their gross iron age handbook.

So what about Greek Slavery or Roman slavery, can't blame the Bible on that....or many other places. And for slavery and segregation you vote for a party that did that and continues to push segregation to this day. In fact if you oppose segregation, they call you a white supremacist....so no progress really hasnt been made...people are people and they will always push their own interests...........

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So what about Greek Slavery or Roman slavery, can't blame the Bible on that....or many other places.

That's right I can't. So where does the credit go for ending it? Not the Bible... yet the Bible was around for a lot of slavery. Hmm.

You're getting warmer....

 

[Clyde 154]

So what about Greek Slavery or Roman slavery, can't blame the Bible on that....or many other places. And for slavery and segregation you vote for a party that did that and continues to push segregation to this day. In fact if you oppose segregation, they call you a white supremacist....so no progress really hasnt been made...people are people and they will always push their own interests...........

Slavery still exists today........its simply re-defined as the penal system. No one that has been imprisoned have been imprisoned because of free will. Call it what you will but once incarnation takes place.......those held prisoner are called and treated as "property of the state".

As far as God condoning slavery as a type of trade and commerce.........nothing could be further from the truth found in scripture. Slavery as regulated under the Old Testament Law is much like our modern Penal System. Even under the Old Testament law it was taught that one should LOVE THEY NEIGHBORS as themselves. (Lev. 19:18)

Because slavery existed does not mean that God taught it as being correct or righteous. The scriptures are a history that includes things other than what God condones. For instance when confronted with a question from the Jewish leadership of His time........a question where they attempted to trap the Christ in some type of contradiction, they asked Jesus about marriage and divorce whether or not it is lawful. Jesus answered then, "Moses because of the HARDNESS OF YOUR HEART, MOSES PERMITTED YOU TO DIVORCE YOUR WIFE...........BUT FROM THE BEGINNING IT WAS NOT SO." -- Matthew 19

The same applies to slavery as it existed during the times of Biblical Israel. God did not necessary condone it....but because of necessity He tolerated it and regulated it with HUMANITY, eventually there was a progression away from the practice as defined in clarity in the New Testament of Christ Jesus.

Many fail to consider the reality that confronted Biblical Israel, being nomadic in nature, roaming with no permanent structures or dwellings....i.e., NO PRISONS. When someone was convicted of a crime.....what was to be done with that individual if it was not a crime worthy of death? Thus under certain conditions.......just as in today's society.......slavery is not necessarily immoral.

Many of the regulation/laws in the Old Testament dealt with the treatment of criminals or those who committed crimes of war...etc., These individuals often were allowed to live instead of simply executing them.....much like those criminals who receive a life sentence in today's penal system.


Read from these regulations/laws concerning the treatment of slaves. (Lev. 18:21,24). Some of these people were sacrificing children by burning them. Would it be morally wrong for God to allow these individuals be punished by enslavement? What was done with a thief? (Ex. 21:1-3)......the scriptures declare that the thief should replace in value the things that were stolen......if he could not, the victim was allowed to sell him into slavery for a specific amount of time until the debt was paid in full.

In reality.......Biblical Israel's treatment of slaves was way ahead of its time as far as being HUMANE to those who were slaves because there was no penal system in place. Read Ex. 21:20-27. No one was allowed to strike a slave/servant with a rod to the point of death.....or the slave owner would be subject to the proper punishment of a fitting crime. It goes on about fitting punishment for striking someone with child in her womb...etc., These regulations compare to today's penal codes in relation to criminal activity.

Further: when combatants were captured they were enslaved and often if the slave was well behaved he was allowed to assimilate into the tribe...etc., What's better? Simply kill the captured where they stand or allow them a chance to live and assimilate? Some crimes against humanity were so great...that the death penalty was the only option. As was the circumstance when dealing with those who worshiped the evil god Baal.............Who captured children and used them as sex slaves and often sacrificed children and those captured at the alter.....it was an evil that God decided needed to be wiped from the face of the earth, so as not to infect the righteous with such evil.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Lovely, but how does any of that address the topic? You simply presume that non-religious folk never develop equivalent morals or legal customs until some Jesus or Moses character happens by and straightens them out, perhaps after performing a miracle or three to keep them from falling asleep during the lecture. A constant goalpost shifting exercise, listening to bucky up there. Why an atheist? Why not? So little substance hitting the mark here.

 

[Turtlesoup]

Religion isn't much of a threat in the first world anymore. We're not going back to theocracy.

Never say never--the influx of catholic illegals has the popes hopes up that we become a Catholic nation (not to be confused with other christians btw) and the muslim coming over and breeding with multiple wives on welfare hope to outbreed everyone.

 

[james bond]

Sure sure, just compare homicide rates over centuries!

Homicides

How common are homicides? How does this differ across countries? And how is this changing over time? Explore global data on homicides.

ourworldindata.org

That's a good one. One study found that attitudes for morality led to whether Christians or atheist in the US. It was the attitude that was the driver towards the religion than the religion coming first as the driver.

Why (We Think) Atheists are More Likely to be Serial Killers - UConn Today

There is a global moral prejudice against people who do not believe in a god or gods, according to a new study by UConn anthropologist Dmitris Xygalatas and ...

today.uconn.edu

 

[Grumblenuts]

Well hot damn, James, that's a good one too.

Q. Does this tell us anything about the purpose of religion in society?

A. Religion has been so successful in the course of human history partly because it functions as a public signal of conformity to group norms, and that is because it involves arbitrary rather than functional rules and behaviors. For example, hunting, fishing, or trading like everyone else is the logical thing to do and offers directly observable benefits (food on the table and money in the bank). But going to church, fasting, or memorizing the Bible are costly signals of commitment to the norms of the community. Reliance on such signals has been crucial for the formation and maintenance of the first large-scale societies, in the absence of reliable secular institutions, and this evolutionary heritage is still with us today.

I see what I highlighted in red likely being another result of cart-before-horse bias, "reliable secular institutions" being very deliberately opposed by religious mobs of every stripe. If secular government hadn't long proven superior to religious tyranny, we'd likely still belong to the British. Being innately fearful and lazy, people easily glom onto religious fantasies. Simply peer pressure is more than enough for many. Fighting off religious tentacles is always the struggle. Surrender is easy. Ya monkey

 

[Clyde 154]

Lovely, but how does any of that address the topic? You simply presume that non-religious folk never develop equivalent morals or legal customs until some Jesus or Moses character happens by and straightens them out, perhaps after performing a miracle or three to keep them from falling asleep during the lecture. A constant goalpost shifting exercise, listening to bucky up there. Why an atheist? Why not? So little substance hitting the mark here.

Assume? Really? morality is not developed or evolved.......evolved from what? Morality is reflected in society via the laws enacted. Morality is taught, passed on from one generation to the next and enforced by society via its MORES', the accepted values of any society. Morality by its universal nature must be transcendent to mankind. Morality is not created by law.....its reflected by law, moral peoples create moral laws, immoral peoples create immoral laws.

Simply demonstrate just where the religion of Christianity came from if not from the doctrine found in the bible, is someone born a Christian, or a Jew, or a Muslim...etc.? Of course not faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God............just how can morality exist without a moral lawgiver? What? Did morality just miracle itself into existence? There is no morality in the animal kingdom. The fact is morality cannot be obtained or sustained void of RELIGION. If there was no global or universal (as there is no argument against the existence of a universal code of morality.....such as all civilized nations find, murder, thievery, etc., to be immoral)...........code of morality, chaos would reign supreme with each nation establishing its own code of morality, what would ensure would be called savagery as found in the wild. But that is not what is observed.

Somewhere along your observation trail of cognitive association you have been disconnected to reason and logic.

 

[Blues Man]

Assume? Really? Simply demonstrate just where the religion of Christianity came from if not from the doctrine found in the bible, is someone born a Christian, or a Jew, or a Muslim...etc.? Of course not faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God............just how can morality exist without a moral lawgiver? What? Did morality just miracle itself into existence? There is no morality in the animal kingdom. The fact is morality cannot be obtained or sustained void of RELIGION. If there was no global or universal (as there is no argument against the existence of a universal code of morality.....such as all civilized nation find, murder, thievery, etc., to be immoral)...........code of morality, chaos would reign supreme with each nation establishing its own code of morality.

Morality is a human invention.

There is no divine law there is just what societies have determined to be acceptable and unacceptable behaviors.

 

[Meriweather]

There is no divine law there is just what societies have determined to be acceptable and unacceptable behaviors.

How do societies determine what is acceptable and what is unacceptable?

 

[Blues Man]

How do societies determine what is acceptable and what is unacceptable?

Trial and error.