Zone1 The Problem of Evil

[BackAgain]

The worst thing about “evil” is that it’s bad.

 

[onefour1]

Did God cleanse the earth of "evil"? Clearly not, there's evil all around us, all the time. Murder happens every day in the US. The politicians are evil fuckers, big businesses are often run by evil fuckers.

Do people repent these days? Do you see Russia repenting? Do you see the US repenting the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan? Nope, the US will still say it was justified.

You believe God is Human? Er.... but he's not a mortal human. Humans are mortal. So he's not human then.

I believe that God cleansed the earth of evil but from the posterity of Noah man again began to do evil. God promised his prophets that he would never again flood the earth with water. God gave us the rainbow in the sky as a promise that he would not flood the earth again. However, He did not promise that He would not cleanse the earth again from sin. At the time of Jesus second coming many of the righteous will be taken into the clouds of heaven while the wicked of the earth will be burned with fire.

Isaiah 24:6
6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

Malachi 4:1
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Doctrine and Covenants 63:34
34 And the saints also shall hardly escape; nevertheless, I, the Lord, am with them, and will come down in heaven from the presence of my Father and consume the wicked with unquenchable fire.

Many people do not repent these days. Especially and entire nation of people. Salvation is dependent upon the individual accepting Christ and repenting of their sins and seeking his forgiveness. Things will get worse and worse until the great day of the Lord comes.

Yes, I believe that God is a immortal glorified man. He is not mortal but immortal meaning that he can never die again. We mortals will all, both the wicked and the righteous, be raised in immortality to live forever and ever. We were made in the image and likeness of God and the scriptures tell us that God is the Father of our spirits and that our spirits are the offspring of God.

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

 

[Red Front]

When I was in college and took a philosophy of religion course, I was presented with the "problem of evil" paradox that has been made in the philosophies of religion. It goes something like this:

If God is an all powerful, all knowing, and an all loving being, then why is there evil in the world?

In other words, if God is all powerful, He would have the power to not allow evil in the world. If God is all knowing, He would have the know how to stop evil from being in the world. And, if God is an all loving and benevolent God surely He would not allow evil into the world! So, since there is evil in the world, then God cannot exist.

This is how the problem of evil was presented to me in my philosophy of religion course. After studying this "problem of evil" for several years upon hearing it, I finally came up with my LDS response to why there is evil in the world and why God allows it. I am curious as to how others answer this philosophical issue. So I ask all God fearing believers, how would you respond to this?

First, you have to ask, what is evil? Is pain and suffering evil? Why? On what grounds is the pain and suffering we feel here now, "evil"? Perhaps there's a higher purpose for it, leading to a much greater good or state of being, one that is full of peace and bliss. The so-called "no pain, no gain" slogan might be relevant here. There might be a greater good to allowing us to experience how it is to be on the edge of oblivion, somewhat separated from God.

In my religious tradition, God, or Krishna, allows us to experience how it is to be our own "gods", separated from him. We exist in his outer, illusory, material energy or "maya".

We insist on existing without serving him, hence he creates a place for us, kind of like a prison, a "penitentiary", where criminals go to both experience some pain as a result of their "karma" (past actions) and hopefully get rehabilitated.

We're currently fixed or stuck here pursuing material pleasures (sense gratification), our own bliss, selfishly, without Krishna, reincarnating in different forms, according to our karma, interacting with his material energy (maya-prakti), until we dedicate ourselves to him, realizing that life only has true purpose when he becomes the centerpiece of our attention and aspirations. Salvation is "moksha", or liberation from the cycle of birth and death.

Samsara - The cycle of birth and death in the material universe.

Moksha (Salvation) - Freed from the cycle of birth and death.

Krishnaloka- Vaikuntha. Krishna's planet in the spiritual sky.

Krishna & Rhada. She is a divine extension of Krishna, the divine feminine (our spiritual mother).

Everything that exists is comprised of divine energy (psyche-spirit-energy). ​

That's eternal bliss and security, not the fleeting pleasures we experience here in the material world, which are temporal and lead to anger, lust, and hence more pain and suffering.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I believe that God cleansed the earth of evil but from the posterity of Noah man again began to do evil. God promised his prophets that he would never again flood the earth with water. God gave us the rainbow in the sky as a promise that he would not flood the earth again. However, He did not promise that He would not cleanse the earth again from sin. At the time of Jesus second coming many of the righteous will be taken into the clouds of heaven while the wicked of the earth will be burned with fire.

Isaiah 24:6
6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

Malachi 4:1
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Doctrine and Covenants 63:34
34 And the saints also shall hardly escape; nevertheless, I, the Lord, am with them, and will come down in heaven from the presence of my Father and consume the wicked with unquenchable fire.

Many people do not repent these days. Especially and entire nation of people. Salvation is dependent upon the individual accepting Christ and repenting of their sins and seeking his forgiveness. Things will get worse and worse until the great day of the Lord comes.

Yes, I believe that God is a immortal glorified man. He is not mortal but immortal meaning that he can never die again. We mortals will all, both the wicked and the righteous, be raised in immortality to live forever and ever. We were made in the image and likeness of God and the scriptures tell us that God is the Father of our spirits and that our spirits are the offspring of God.

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Yeah, you said that already.

 

[alang1216]

Exactly the point: Argue for the limitations and they're yours. Arguing for "actual evidence"--i.e. physical proof--and that's the chosen boundary that has many deciding it cannot be overcome; they become settlers. In the past, the sea was the boundary most accepted...but there were sailors who would not be stopped. They were not settlers. In America, the mountains were the boundaries, but pioneers pushed on, up and over. They were not settlers. Others chose to settle on the plains.

I am one who testifies there is something beyond your settling point of physical evidence, that those who seek can find. Of old, sailors could not bring new lands to other places. People who lived in these other places and to sail to these new lands and experience for themselves that the sea was not a boundary after all.

Did all early explorers end up in the same place? Did some end up in one place whereas others ended up in another? Did some find ice and snow while others found balmy temperatures? It seems different discoveries can also create (for some) an impassable boundary.

Lovely analogies but not accurate I think. I think back to my youth when LSD was going to expand our minds. It was a dead end like all drugs, though the journey would sometimes be fun and exciting. Unfortunately, too many became addicted to their drugs or alcohol and became lost.

 

[AqlAlim]

First, you have to ask, what is evil? Is pain and suffering evil? Why? On what grounds is the pain and suffering we feel here now, "evil"? Perhaps there's a higher purpose for it, leading to a much greater good or state of being, one that is full of peace and bliss. The so-called "no pain, no gain" slogan might be relevant here. There might be a greater good to allowing us to experience how it is to be on the edge of oblivion, somewhat separated from God.

In my religious tradition, God, or Krishna, allows us to experience how it is to be our own "gods", separated from him. We exist in his outer, illusory, material energy or "maya".

View attachment 932357​

We insist on existing without serving him, hence he creates a place for us, kind of like a prison, a "penitentiary", where criminals go to both experience some pain as a result of their "karma" (past actions) and hopefully get rehabilitated.

We're currently fixed or stuck here pursuing material pleasures (sense gratification), our own bliss, selfishly, without Krishna, reincarnating in different forms, according to our karma, interacting with his material energy (maya-prakti), until we dedicate ourselves to him, realizing that life only has true purpose when he becomes the centerpiece of our attention and aspirations. Salvation is "moksha", or liberation from the cycle of birth and death.

View attachment 932347
Samsara - The cycle of birth and death in the material universe.

View attachment 932349
Moksha (Salvation) - Freed from the cycle of birth and death.


View attachment 932348
Krishnaloka- Vaikuntha. Krishna's planet in the spiritual sky.

View attachment 932350
Krishna & Rhada. She is a divine extension of Krishna, the divine feminine (our spiritual mother).

View attachment 932358

View attachment 932359
Everything that exists is comprised of divine energy (psyche-spirit-energy). ​

That's eternal bliss and security, not the fleeting pleasures we experience here in the material world, which are temporal and lead to anger, lust, and hence more pain and suffering.

We believe this life is a test that will determine our final abode. We don't reincarnate, because after death we enter into the realm of the dead, where the wicked are tormented day and night and the righteous await their entrance into paradise, smelling the fragrance of its flowers, gazing at its glowing gardens and waterfalls. There's no reincarnation only resurrection. We are recreated, given new bodies, capable of existing in paradise or hell, depending on our final destination.

 

[ding]

The only evidence I see for the God of the Bible comes from the Bible and the Bible stories about him are rather horrendous. There is nothing in the physical world that says "I am" (Yahweh).

Apparently you are on a mission to argue against the God of Abraham.

 

[ding]

I believe the book exists and has many valuable things to say about the ancient world. It is what it says about God that gives me such a poor opinion of him/her/it.


I have studied the world and, if I were to presume there were a God, the design of the world would give me a poor opinion of him/her/it.


The universe is all I use to shape my beliefs about this possible creator. As I've said, I'm agnostic on the existence of a Creator but whether he exists or not, I see no connection between the creator of existence and the God of the Bible.

This is hilarious.

 

[Meriweather]

Lovely analogies but not accurate I think.

I know they are accurate. Seek and find God. Or find every excuse not to bother.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Based on what he does (genocide) in the Noah's Ark story, wiping out just about all living creatures, it'd seem that God actually gets turned on by a little violence...

Retroactive Prehistory

That myth was based on the ancient lake created by the melting of the glaciers. It extended from Switzerland to Afghanistan. The Flood wiped out the evil Neanderthal species. Noah and his family weren't the only Cro-Magnons to survive and wind up in the Caucasus Mountains.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

View attachment 932390

We believe this life is a test that will determine our final abode. We don't reincarnate, because after death we enter into the realm of the dead, where the wicked are tormented day and night and the righteous await their entrance into paradise, smelling

There's no reincarnation only resurrection. We are recreated, given new bodies, capable of existing in paradise or hell, depending on our final destination.

Money Talks. Fools Follow Rules.

If you're rich enough, you can sin all you want. Just pay off some Evangelical extortionist and you'll go straight to Heaven.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Actually, yes it is. Better to find nothing than a lie we tell ourselves.

Gospel Goose-Chase

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Again you are attempting to deflect away from actually answering the question. Where did MORALITY come from if none exists in nature? In order to refute the evidence that morality transcends nature you must present an example of morality within nature.......other than from man, the only sentient being on earth. In one breath you present nature as being capable of evil by presenting the hypothetical that animals kill other animals.....and they are JUST LIKE NATURE MADE THEM.........then in the next breath attempt to show an example of morality because a mother chimp protects her offspring and this is evolution........NOT LIKE NATURE MADE THEM. Show me the first Chimp that did not protect its offspring......by instinct and how this immorality evolved into MORALITY.......if morality evolves in the animal kingdom, it must have evolved from something. If animals were not created with the instinct to protect their young......would there be any young to EVOLVE?




Show me an animal that can enjoy art, create music and read them from notes...........write entire sentences in order to completely transfer and save mental cognitive ideas. Show me an animal that makes plans years in advance of action.......an animal that comprehends their actions effect other living creatures and demonstrates empathy. Just one more question..........if morality exists in the animal kingdom, why did the chimp that ate its owners face off not get its day in the courtrooms.....it was simply put down like the rogue animal it was.........clearly it did not comprehend that its action would end in its own death nor did it demonstrate empathy for its lack of moral guidance.


Why? Because not one word in the Bible has been proven OBJECTIVELY FALSE. A good example (Genesis 1:24)............the bible states that reproduction can only come from animals within the same species...........each after its own kind. Evolution attempts to teach that animals evolve OUTSIDE OF SPECIES.......this theory was debunked in the 19th century by the scientific experiments conducted by Louis Pasteur (The Law of Biogenesis proved the 1866 theory via use of the Scientific Method conducted by Pasteur), and this Law of Physics has never been proven wrong by any Darwinian Cultist.......man clearly did evolve from POND SCUM as suggested by Darwin. Spontaneous Generation is taught as truth every day in our education systems around the world........even though its been debunked by Applied Science. Life has never evolved from non living matter. There is not one example of such on earth.


SHOW US THE "LAW OF EVOLUTION" AS PROVEN VIA THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD. There is a reason that evolution is a THEORY (idea), there is no evidence to confirm that its a law of nature/physics. I bet you hear and ignore this truth all the time......

Those Who Seek a Way Out of Cultist Crowds Are Thought to Be Way-Out

Intelligent Self-Design. Theists have contempt for Intelligence and the Self (Individualism). So do Secular Humanists.

Believing in secular authorities is also a superstition, merely a Postmodern extension of believing in religious authorities. That's why when I alone propose Intelligent Self-Design, no poster is programmed to accept any individual's independent theories or he automatically asks for a link to this idea. If it doesn't even have a link, it's considered to be not even worth arguing about.

 

[ding]

Why? Because not one word in the Bible has been proven OBJECTIVELY FALSE. A good example (Genesis 1:24)............the bible states that reproduction can only come from animals within the same species...........each after its own kind. Evolution attempts to teach that animals evolve OUTSIDE OF SPECIES.......this theory was debunked in the 19th century by the scientific experiments conducted by Louis Pasteur (The Law of Biogenesis proved the 1866 theory via use of the Scientific Method conducted by Pasteur), and this Law of Physics has never been proven wrong by any Darwinian Cultist.......man clearly did evolve from POND SCUM as suggested by Darwin. Spontaneous Generation is taught as truth every day in our education systems around the world........even though its been debunked by Applied Science. Life has never evolved from non living matter. There is not one example of such on earth.

Even the creation account tells you the only thing created was the heavens and the earth. Everything else appeared later as in let there be. It's actually a way more powerful and impressive display of power than God creating everything all at once.

And if these facts somehow make you believe less in God, that's on you.

 

[alang1216]

Apparently you are on a mission to argue against the God of Abraham.

No, just for truth and logic and reason.

 

[surada]

Ambrose Bierce

June 1842 – c. 1914) said it better:

RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable.


.... on a related note; more from Bierce:

PRAY, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.

PROPHECY, n. The art and practice of selling one's credibility for future delivery.

CHRISTIAN, n. One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. One who follows the teachings of Christ in so far as they are not inconsistent with a life of sin.

 

[Meriweather]

No, just for truth and logic and reason.

Shrug. I'm not seeing it; only a refusal to do any of the above.

 

[Clyde 154]

No, just for truth and logic and reason.

You deal in TRUTH? You propagate evolution as if it were a physical law of nature. That is a LIE.

Show us "THE LAW OF EVOLUTION" as proven via the scientific method of Observation, Reproduction and Consistency. TRUTH: There is no Law of Evolution because the THEORY (an idea contained only in the mind of philosophers calling themselves scientists) OF EVOLUTION cannot produce the facts required to be a law, the theory is entirely based upon Speculation, Conjecture and Assumption.

 

[alang1216]

Shrug. I'm not seeing it; only a refusal to do any of the above.

Sorry but I'm not capable of reaching a decision until the facts are in.

 

[alang1216]

You deal in TRUTH? You propagate evolution as if it were a physical law of nature. That is a LIE.

Show us "THE LAW OF EVOLUTION" as proven via the scientific method of Observation, Reproduction and Consistency. TRUTH: There is no Law of Evolution because the THEORY (an idea contained only in the mind of philosophers calling themselves scientists) OF EVOLUTION cannot produce the facts required to be a law, the theory is entirely based upon Speculation, Conjecture and Assumption.

Evolution is based on overwhelming physical evidence from many fields of science. You can play semantic games with the word 'theory' but that only shows your ignorance of the scientific term 'theory'.