Whos Right on Global Warming: The United Nations IPCC or the Skeptics?

[JBeukema]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lUeBz9TCXw&feature=channel]YouTube - Whos Right on Global Warming: The United Nations IPCC or the Skeptics?[/ame]

 

[Sinatra]

YouTube - Whos Right on Global Warming: The United Nations IPCC or the Skeptics?

Thank you for the post - I have attended similar such forums as this regarding Global Warming - perhaps a dozen or so over the last decade.

The stronger case was clearly made by the so-called "skeptic" - the science is flawed, politically motivated, and the IPPC in particular is run by government representatives whose primary benefit is that of economic controls, not science.

The use of Galilleo vs the Pope was appropriate - as AGW has become a religion, with these grant-seeking scientists as missionaries spreading the gospel, while those who stand opposed to this group-think, are relegated to the proverbial tower - banished from the scientific community for not towing the group-think line.

Thank you again - I enjoyed the debate...

 

[FactFinder]

Let's see...we know who is paying the IPCC folks. Government entiities who want greater control.

Now who is paying the skeptics?

I don't believe man is anywhere near as powerful to upset the planet as self centered egotism demands. No one had to buy influence to lead me to that conviction. Hell we are peons, unable to even help our fellows properly in (by contrast) a minor catastrophe like Katrina or a puny little sunami.

Best to recognize where the real power lies.

"What is man but a vapour"

 

[editec]

Speaking as a layman in the field of climatology, I really don't know who is right, or for that matter if ANYBODY is right.

Based mostly on my (admittedly layman's) understanding of chaos theory?

I'm convinced that nobody really knows nuttin' about what our climate is going to do.

Now the above is not an argument for doing nothing about the climate.

The fact is that doing nothing really means continuing to pump pollutants into the atmosphere, and while I may know next to nothing about climatology, I don't think one needs a degree in natural sciences to know that dumping shit into the atmosphere is a bad idea generally.

 

[FactFinder]

So are you saying that plants eat shit?

 

[Epsilon Delta]

So are you saying that plants eat shit?

That would be a valid argument, if we hadn't been catastrophically decimating the world's jungles and forests for the past few thousand years. Not only is there way more carbon dioxide, but much fewer trees to process it back to oxygen.

 

[editec]

So are you saying that plants eat shit?

If you're a gardener you know that some fertilizer is a good thing but too much kills your crops.

 

[k2skier]

So are you saying that plants eat shit?

Plants had plenty to eat before man.

More carbon sources and fewer carbon sinks...

Common sense and sustainability...

One cannot shit in his nest for too long without it getting smelly.

 

[KittenKoder]

Speaking as a layman in the field of climatology, I really don't know who is right, or for that matter if ANYBODY is right.

Based mostly on my (admittedly layman's) understanding of chaos theory?

I'm convinced that nobody really knows nuttin' about what our climate is going to do.

Now the above is not an argument for doing nothing about the climate.

The fact is that doing nothing really means continuing to pump pollutants into the atmosphere, and while I may know next to nothing about climatology, I don't think one needs a degree in natural sciences to know that dumping shit into the atmosphere is a bad idea generally.

Chaos theory rules ... and you made a great connection. Weather follows chaos theory (like most natural phenomenon) and so no, we don't know what's going on or what will happen. It's impossible.

The only part of environut ranting I like ... getting rid of cars ... but meh, I still don't believe in ruling by fear. So, I want to get rid of cars for something less panic driven ... I just want cleaner air. But also, I don't think the choice should be taken away, which is why I will never side with the environuts ...

 

[k2skier]

To answer the question; they both are. Just look at ozone depletion and particulate matter (smog), and one who watches trends sees the 15-30 year cycles in extreme cold winters and hot summers. I believe we have an extreme natural event going on with a planet that's having trouble digesting all of mankind's waste...

Middle ground...common sense and sustainability. It will be much easier to get off our crude addiction sooner than later...

 

[KittenKoder]

To answer the question; they both are. Just look at ozone depletion and particulate matter (smog). nd one who watches trends sees the 15-30 year cycles in extreme cold winters and hot summers. I believe we have an extreme natural event going on with a planet that's having trouble digesting all of mankind's waste...

Middle ground...common sense and sustainability. It will be much easier to get off our crude addiction sooner than later...

Aaah ... middle ground ... something which most people never seek these days. The problem is making laws is not middle ground, no matter what science or logic is used.

 

[Sinatra]

Agreed - a cleaner environment? You bet.

Fact is, America's environment is cleaner than say, 40 years ago - much cleaner.

Alternative energy? Sure - but it will likely be decades before a viable alternative energy source is developed. In the meantime, we must increase domestic drilling, cleaner coal, nuclear, etc.

China and India are emerging economic powers with billions of people. They are not going to comply with any climate change regulations - any resulting changes by the United States will have a diminishing impact in relation to just those two nations - to say nothing of the other emerging economies around the world.

Lastly, Cap n Tax will do little to actually diminish current CO2 levels in the United States - it is simply a vehicle for increased government revenue, and revenue for private enterprise that has gotten in on the ground floor of this taxing scheme - such as Al Gore. Companies will simply roll the increased costs into the payments born by the population - you and me. The poor will be particularly hurt by this. And, as America becomes less competetive, the middle class will then be hit hard, as there will be fewer jobs available, and even more companies moving overseas.

Even if one believes in Human-made global warming - and that is a significant speculative leap of faith, Cap n Tax will do next to nothing to remedy that issue. To support such a measure shows you to be making not a decision of good will, but a decision of politics, with all the inherent bias intact.

Human-made Global Warming is a myth.

Cap n Tax is the dangerous reality that some hope to build upon that myth.

 

[KittenKoder]

Agreed - a cleaner environment? You bet.

Fact is, America's environment is cleaner than say, 40 years ago - much cleaner.

Alternative energy? Sure - but it will likely be decades before a viable alternative energy source is developed. In the meantime, we must increase domestic drilling, cleaner coal, nuclear, etc.

China and India are emerging economic powers with billions of people. They are not going to comply with any climate change regulations - any resulting changes by the United States will have a diminishing impact in relation to just those two nations - to say nothing of the other emerging economies around the world.

Lastly, Cap n Tax will do little to actually diminish current CO2 levels in the United States - it is simply a vehicle for increased government revenue, and revenue for private enterprise that has gotten in on the ground floor of this taxing scheme - such as Al Gore. Companies will simply roll the increased costs into the payments born by the population - you and me. The poor will be particularly hurt by this. And, as America becomes less competetive, the middle class will then be hit hard, as there will be fewer jobs available, and even more companies moving overseas.

Even if one believes in Human-made global warming - and that is a significant speculative leap of faith, Cap n Tax will do next to nothing to remedy that issue. To support such a measure shows you to be making not a decision of good will, but a decision of politics, with all the inherent bias intact.

Human-made Global Warming is a myth.

Cap n Tax is the dangerous reality that some hope to build upon that myth.

Coal I don't like, aside from the dirtying up of the air, the mining of it is more hazardous than it's worth. Our nuclear is ready, and far more reliable than anyone is willing to admit, they keep quoting two really unrelated instances that prove nothing but stirs up ignorant fears in people's minds. Oil ... meh ... I can actually live without it but driving up the cost of it by the environut laws is killing my pocket book.

As I said, people asking for others to "live cleaner" .... fine, that's great, I benefit as well, and it's still choice, but making laws is not only dishonest but wrong since we don't even know the full impact of these "changes" they are forcing.

Then factoring in the fact that GW is just a hoax, it's thievery.

 

[k2skier]

Cap & Trade...Goldman Sachs...another bubble is going to burst...corporate greed at it's finest...