Van Jones: "Men are hurting. Feminist culture tells you 'dont cry cause you're the problem anyway'. masculine culture tell you 'dont cry cause...'

[Curried Goats]

Take your own advice

You can’t even provide a counterpoint to my argument. Trans is equivalent to schizophrenia NOT being gay. Prove me wrong.

When you use emojis, I know you lost another debate. Too easy.

I can. I'm going to provide the link right now to the people who write the mental health diagnostic manual. The people who actually diagnose schizophrenia for a living disagree with you, Internet Doogie Howser.

What is Gender Dysphoria?

It is important to note that gender identity is different from gender expression. Whereas gender identity refers to one’s psychological sense of their gender, gender expression refers to the way in which one presents to the world in a gendered way. For example, in much of the U.S., wearing a dress is considered a “feminine” gender expression, and wearing a tuxedo is considered a “masculine” gender expression. Such expectations are culturally defined and vary across time and culture. One’s gender expression does not necessarily align with their gender identity. Diverse gender expressions, much like diverse gender identities, are not indications of a mental disorder.

 

[SeaMajor7]

You guys would do better talking to a brick wall.

 

[Curried Goats]

You guys would do better talking to a brick wall.

Because then you frail fuckers wouldn't have to hear when reality disagrees with you.

 

[hadit]

You keep referring to the science but never linking to it. Why not? I have already, your red herring of their brains not being fully developed is trying to hide the fact that what develops last is the part of the brain that involves short term decisions and risk taking, not long term planning like with medical decisions.

Then there should be no restrictions on children to decide for themselves if they want to consume tobacco and alcohol. Are we not doing them a disservice by preventing them from making that choice for themselves? Are they not capable of doing long-term planning such as medical decisions? You say they are, on what basis are we preventing them from using tobacco and alcohol?

What you find troubling, emotionally, isn't a scientific argument.

Your careless conflation of dissimilar things is also not a scientific argument.

Are you back to cosplaying as medical professional?

What is your medical background from which you make your medical opinions known? Or are you pretending they're not your opinions and you just agree with the opinions of others that confirm your bias?

Nope. I'm just highlighting the fact that your opinion isn't informed by years of medical study and practice so why would you think it worth anything?

It's worth what it is. I don't have to be a doctor to have common sense. I don't have to be a bricklayer to know that a poorly built wall won't stand very long. I don't have to be an economist to know that there are long-term ramifications to injecting money into an economy to fight a temporary recession. I don't have to be a doctor to know that surgically and hormonally messing with a developing teenager's body can have long-term effects we don't fully understand and to see the continued problems experienced by those who were convinced that altering their bodies would make them feel better. The high suicide rate (in 2022, 80% of trans people considered suicide and 40% attempted it, according to these guys Trans suicide rate U.S. 2022 | Statista) is a big red flag. Transitioning, while trendy and in vogue with a certain segment of the population, doesn't seem to offer much in the way of actually making people feel better about themselves and life in general.

No, you're just using fallacies for arguments rather than reason and science.

What fallacy? I pointed out that medical knowledge is increasing rapidly and treatments once considered normal and effective are often viewed as barbaric just a few years later. Point out the fallacy in that reasoning.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I can. I'm going to provide the link right now to the people who write the mental health diagnostic manual. The people who actually diagnose schizophrenia for a living disagree with you, Internet Doogie Howser.

What is Gender Dysphoria?

It is important to note that gender identity is different from gender expression. Whereas gender identity refers to one’s psychological sense of their gender, gender expression refers to the way in which one presents to the world in a gendered way. For example, in much of the U.S., wearing a dress is considered a “feminine” gender expression, and wearing a tuxedo is considered a “masculine” gender expression. Such expectations are culturally defined and vary across time and culture. One’s gender expression does not necessarily align with their gender identity. Diverse gender expressions, much like diverse gender identities, are not indications of a mental disorder.

One persons opinion. Now get that definition from 20 yrs ago.

Schizophrenic behavior is a mental illness. We don’t have to pretend that we see spiders that aren’t there or hear voices that aren’t there.

Same as we don’t have to pretend that a biological male who is mentally ill and thinks they are a woman is actually a woman.

We don’t have to live in their make believe world.

 

[hadit]

Wrong. Sexual preference is just that. Even straight people don’t always agree on who is
Or isn’t attractive.

Trans is closer to schizophrenic behavior. You’re seeing something that isn’t there.

They won't address the miracle that occurs when a person transitions. In a moment, a straight man becomes a homosexual woman, or a homosexual woman becomes a straight man.

We have been told ad nauseum that sexual orientation cannot be changed.

 

[SeaMajor7]

Because then you frail fuckers wouldn't have to hear when reality disagrees with you.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

They won't address the miracle that occurs when a person transitions. In a moment, a straight man becomes a homosexual woman, or a homosexual woman becomes a straight man.

We have been told ad nauseum that sexual orientation cannot be changed.

Leftists lump gays and trans together. It doesn’t make any sense.

 

[marvin martian]

Hey, if that's your idea of a woman, have at it.

He has.

 

[marvin martian]

Leftists lump gays and trans together. It doesn’t make any sense.

 

[hadit]

1) Mental illness
2) A ruse to get into women’s spaces

That’s my argument. We need to treat these people and not play into their delusions. And certainly don’t put our daughters, sisters, mothers and wives at risk to be “politically correct”.

I support any father's right to prevent a man from following his underage daughter into a restroom. It doesn't have to be a violent confrontation, why can't a man who wants to be a woman simply respect a father's wish for his daughter to be in there without a man being present?

A simple, "Please wait until my daughter comes out" should suffice, unless the man is determined that he has to follow the girl into the restroom.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I support any father's right to prevent a man from following his underage daughter into a restroom. It doesn't have to be a violent confrontation, why can't a man who wants to be a woman simply respect a father's wish for his daughter to be in there without a man being present?

A simple, "Please wait until my daughter comes out" should suffice, unless the man is determined that he has to follow the girl into the restroom.

You’re trying to rationalize with a mentally ill person. It’s like telling a schizophrenic that they aren’t hearing voices. No no they are and they need treatment but we don’t pretend we also hear voices.

Same with these mentally ill persons. We can’t allow their delusions to become the norm. They too need treatment or they need to accept societal norms

 

[Curried Goats]

Then there should be no restrictions on children to decide for themselves if they want to consume tobacco and alcohol. Are we not doing them a disservice by preventing them from making that choice for themselves? Are they not capable of doing long-term planning such as medical decisions? You say they are, on what basis are we preventing them from using tobacco and alcohol?

What I'm not doing is falling for your conflation of short term risk taking behavior like consuming alcohol and long term planning like Healthcare.

Your careless conflation of dissimilar things is also not a scientific argument.

You're the one likening consuming alcohol to deciding healthcare treatment, not me.

What is your medical background from which you make your medical opinions known? Or are you pretending they're not your opinions and you just agree with the opinions of others that confirm your bias?

I'm not offering up my expertise. I'm sharing what I've learned from the experts with links and everything. I can't force your ignorant people to read.

It's worth what it is. I don't have to be a doctor to have common sense.

No. You have to go to medical school to have a professional medical sense.

I don't have to be a bricklayer to know that a poorly built wall won't stand very long.

You probably have to have some knowledge in brick laying though to do the job right.

I don't have to be an economist to know that there are long-term ramifications to injecting money into an economy to fight a temporary recession.

But you do to know how to combat them effectively.

I don't have to be a doctor to know that surgically and hormonally messing with a developing teenager's body can have long-term effects we don't fully understand and to see the continued problems experienced by those who were convinced that altering their bodies would make them feel better. The high suicide rate (in 2022, 80% of trans people considered suicide and 40% attempted it, according to these guys Trans suicide rate U.S. 2022 | Statista) is a big red flag. Transitioning, while trendy and in vogue with a certain segment of the population, doesn't seem to offer much in the way of actually making people feel better about themselves and life in general.

You do have to be intellectually honest though to acknowledge the studies that have shown improvement in trans satisfaction of self post op while also acknowledging that those studies show that they are continued disportionate victims of violence, hate, housing and work discrimination which all contribute to the high suicide rate.

What fallacy? I pointed out that medical knowledge is increasing rapidly and treatments once considered normal and effective are often viewed as barbaric just a few years later. Point out the fallacy in that reasoning.

That is literally a red herring fallacy. Just because one previous medical practice was deemed barbaric doesn't mean anything for any other.

You people are deeply uneducated. How did you miss the obvious fallacy of that?

 

[marvin martian]

What I'm not doing is falling for your conflation of short term risk taking behavior like consuming alcohol and long term planning like Healthcare.

You're the one likening consuming alcohol to deciding healthcare treatment, not me.

I'm not offering up my expertise. I'm sharing what I've learned from the experts with links and everything. I can't force your ignorant people to read.

No. You have to go to medical school to have a professional medical sense.

You probably have to have some knowledge in brick laying though to do the job right.

But you do to know how to combat them effectively.

You do have to be intellectually honest though to acknowledge the studies that have shown improvement in trans satisfaction of self post op while also acknowledging that those studies show that they are continued disportionate victims of violence, hate, housing and work discrimination which all contribute to the high suicide rate.

That is literally a red herring fallacy. Just because one previous medical practice was deemed barbaric doesn't mean anything for any other.

You people are deeply uneducated. How did you miss the obvious fallacy of that?

^^^Big wall of text to say he believes a man in a dress is a woman, and pedophilia is a sexual orientation.

 

[Curried Goats]

One persons opinion. Now get that definition from 20 yrs ago.

Schizophrenic behavior is a mental illness. We don’t have to pretend that we see spiders that aren’t there or hear voices that aren’t there.

Same as we don’t have to pretend that a biological male who is mentally ill and thinks they are a woman is actually a woman.

We don’t have to live in their make believe world.

No. Not one person's opinion. That's the opinion of the organization that writes the mental health diagnostic manual.

 

[Curried Goats]

^^^Big wall of text to say he believes a man in a dress is a woman, and pedophilia is a sexual orientation.

Too much for you to read?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

No. Not one person's opinion. That's the opinion of the organization that writes the mental health diagnostic manual.

Organization that blocks out disparate voices. How convenient.

Way to not address what I just wrote. Psychology isn’t an exact science and had become politicized.

Too much for you to read?

In 1980 before the country started moving to wokism, trans was a mental disorder just like schizophrenia. Your wokism is dying

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-07-12/why-european-countries-are-rethinking-gender-affirming-care-for-minors

 

[LAUGHatLEFTISTS]

Men are not the vulnerable and least not in comparison to women. They are the dominate political, social and economic class in almost every society on Earth.

It’s called nature.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Men are not the vulnerable and least not in comparison to women. They are the dominate political, social and economic class in almost every society on Earth.

Men are bigger and stronger on average you forgot to mention that aspect. Must have skipped your mind.

 

[hadit]

What I'm not doing is falling for your conflation of short term risk taking behavior like consuming alcohol and long term planning like Healthcare.

You're the one likening consuming alcohol to deciding healthcare treatment, not me.

I also referenced tobacco, which is not a short-term risk thing and which you conveniently ignored. You don't like alcohol, fine. Why do we prevent children from using tobacco? According to you, they are capable of making a long-term decision about their health. If they are not, at what age should we lift the restriction?

I'm not offering up my expertise. I'm sharing what I've learned from the experts with links and everything. I can't force your ignorant people to read.

No. You have to go to medical school to have a professional medical sense.

But I don't have to be a medical professional to realize that 40% of a group attempting suicide is NOT a good number, no matter how you try to frame it or what you try to blame it on.

You probably have to have some knowledge in brick laying though to do the job right.

I'm not involved in treating these children, so that one just disappeared like rich liberals when asked how soon they're leaving the country.

But you do to know how to combat them effectively.

Which doesn't negate my position at all.

You do have to be intellectually honest though to acknowledge the studies that have shown improvement in trans satisfaction of self post op

How long post-op? Weeks, months or years? IOW, there is the placebo effect, I expect this surgery to make me feel better, so I feel better for a while until I realize that my life really hasn't changed all that much, and I still feel bad. Link to the studies.

while also acknowledging that those studies show that they are continued disportionate victims of violence, hate, housing and work discrimination which all contribute to the high suicide rate.

And your medical opinion absolves the mental issues these people suffered before transitioning and continued to suffer afterward of all responsibility? There are many people groups that experience violence, hate, housing and work discrimination that don't resort to suicide at those levels. There's a lot more going on here than just that. Seriously, if you want to make that argument you have to deal with a people group that suffered all that for much longer than the trans community and didn't resort to suicide.

And you're pointing out things that can make someone in this situation feel better about themselves and their lives without undergoing surgery, namely, being treated more nicely by those around them and not being bullied. This would be especially true of teenagers, notorious for craving peer acceptance.

That is literally a red herring fallacy. Just because one previous medical practice was deemed barbaric doesn't mean anything for any other.
You people are deeply uneducated. How did you miss the obvious fallacy of that?

Not at all, it illustrates my point that advances in medical knowledge often render a previous practice barbaric. In human history terms, it wasn't that long ago that we lost an American ex-president because we thought that draining his blood would cure his illness. Barbaric today, the height of medical treatment then. Even more recently, we treated mental illness by shoving a metal rod into the patient's brain. Barbaric today, the height of medical treatment then.

It is my belief that it won't be very long before society will look back at what we're doing to children today and shudder in revulsion because medical understanding has advanced to the point that we can more effectively treat kids in that situation without causing them life-long problems and rendering them sterile. That's not a fallacy, that's an opinion based on the rapid pace of medical innovation and understanding. Let's put it this way, how confident are YOU that medical science will still say in 100 years the best way to treat a teenager wanting to appear more feminine or masculine is to surgically mess with their bodies, stop their normal sexual maturation, and render them sterile for the rest of their lives, especially given that 40% of them will attempt to kill themselves?