What will the Talicrats gain by tearing down civil war monuments?

[g5000]

Everyone knows the Southern Racist were Democrats.

And everyone but parroting pseudocon tards knows they were conservatives.

 

[g5000]

The people of Virginia elected to take down a statue.

The tards on this forum are suddenly in favor of out of state interlopers interfering in the will of the people of Virginia.

How about that!

 

[Pogo]

Do the Troglocrats need even more infamy?

OP seems to have selected the "abandon thread" route. Evidently didn't go the way he envisioned.

 

[Theowl32]

You think they will stop? It is all about the incremental destruction of America.

Once they are done with this pathetic issue, they will be moving on to the Jefferson Memorial, Washington memorial, Mount Rushmore, etc.

The dumb sheep will follow right along until the country is in ashes, the free market is done and we are all under the control by big brother from cradle to grave.

Just so you know.

 

[bendog]

I gotta say Nazi marches with tiki torches and pedestrians getting run over like happens in Europe is NOT the way to win minds and hearts to the positive of statues of dead confederate generals that are erected on public property that are not civil war sites.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

In the best case, attention to who put those monuments up, and why.

That being, the Lost Cause history revisionism, starring the United Daughters of the Confederacy and their fellow travellers, out to whitewash a sorry history by running around the country putting up statues, monuments and plaques in the most visible and official-looking places possible, as well as writing books and articles, producing movies and anything else they could come up with to rewrite that history into the collective culture.

You remember --- the same group that brought Thomas Dixon's "The Clansman" (1905), the revolutionary film made from it "Birth of a Nation" (1915), the resurrection of the Klan itself in response (1915), a surge in Jim Crow laws, a surge in lynchings, a surge in race riots --- and simultaneously it brought the statues and monuments being targeted (and, in some cases like the Liberty Place monument to a riot started by a white supremacist group of thugs, already removed by an embarrassed city). They are the propaganda devices of their time.

I call it The Golden Age of White Supremacy. That's when they date from, that's who put them there, and that's what they represent. The more awareness of that period of "lost" history --- the better.

And again --- "removing" statues/monuments from their public propaganda points does not mean being "destroyed", but relocated to a less-propaganda point, a more neutral point that doesn't make the artifact look like it's "endorsed" by that community. In effect the artifacts live on while their propaganda power is being neutered. Which is the real psychological issue at base for both sides --- whether that propaganda power gets to stay or go.

In at least one case the Daughters of the Confederacy, who put up most of these monuments, has agreed to take one back, when no one else would.

The Gainesville (Fla) Sun


>> Gainesville resident Melissa Wokasch, 41, wiped tears away as she watched workers chip away at the statue’s base.

“It’s about time,” she said. “I think this should have been done a long time ago. I think there’s a greater sense of urgency now than ever.”

Friday, white nationalists held a torch-lit march at the University of Virginia, protesting the removal of a Confederate monument there. The next day, violence erupted during protests in Charlottesville, leaving three dead and more than 30 injured.

... The decision to move the statue here was settled more than a month ago when the United Daughters of the Confederacy agreed to take it after other groups had declined it.

Prominent symbols of the Confederacy became increasingly controversial since June 17, 2015, when Dylann Roof opened fire in an historic black church in Charleston, South Carolina, killing nine people gathered for a Bible study. Roof said he was trying to start a race war.

... [County Commissioner Robert Hutchinson] said the commission always wanted to remove Old Joe, but was unsure who would take it. He said he never wanted it demolished and believes it’s better-suited to a museum or veterans park. “The solution, which should have been obvious from the beginning, was simply to give it back to who gave it to us,” he said.

The statue was unveiled in Jan. 19, 1904, the birthday of Gen. Robert E. Lee, to music from the Gainesville Orchestra followed by speeches.

... City Commissioner Harvey Ward said he was glad to see Old Joe go, too, adding that his great-great-great-grandfather was a Confederate soldier in the Civil War.

Ward said the statue was erected to honor a “lost cause.” But for some, he said, it’s a “painful reminder of injustice.” “These statues didn’t pop up at the end of the Civil War to honor veterans,” Ward said.

... The county has no plans at the moment for any type of replacement in that spot, but a lynching-victims memorial could soon be put up near the Public Defender’s Office at 151 SW Second Ave., he added.

Amanda Wagner-Perlkey, 37, said the statue stands for oppression and was erected to remind people that whites are superior to blacks and needed to go. <<


"Old Joe" -- whose model is by the way yet another generic and not a historical person --- has been relocated to a cemetery and disassociated from its original public-property site. To use my previous term he's been neutered. And even the UDC sees the light.

That's the way it should work.

Of course --- the OP or any other of the Lost Causers are free to make the case for why a municipal or state government should be endorsing monuments to white supremacy or history revisionism in general.

"Well-lllllll, I thought it was a lovely story. And you tell it so well! With such enthusiasms!"

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

In the best case, attention to who put those monuments up, and why.

That being, the Lost Cause history revisionism, starring the United Daughters of the Confederacy and their fellow travellers, out to whitewash a sorry history by running around the country putting up statues, monuments and plaques in the most visible and official-looking places possible, as well as writing books and articles, producing movies and anything else they could come up with to rewrite that history into the collective culture.

You remember --- the same group that brought Thomas Dixon's "The Clansman" (1905), the revolutionary film made from it "Birth of a Nation" (1915), the resurrection of the Klan itself in response (1915), a surge in Jim Crow laws, a surge in lynchings, a surge in race riots --- and simultaneously it brought the statues and monuments being targeted (and, in some cases like the Liberty Place monument to a riot started by a white supremacist group of thugs, already removed by an embarrassed city). They are the propaganda devices of their time.

I call it The Golden Age of White Supremacy. That's when they date from, that's who put them there, and that's what they represent. The more awareness of that period of "lost" history --- the better.

Billy_Kinetta thinks it "funny" to be aware of one's history.

Isn't that eloquent.

I am quite well-versed in history, thank you.

It's you I think is funny.

Yet it's the post that you mark as "funny" so apparently you're not as well-versed as you imagine.

Well versed enough to note that you omitted Democrat responsibility for the resurrection of the Klan, the surge in Jim Crow laws, the surge in lynchings and riots. What a funny guy you are.

They are doing the same thing today in the hope of burying that history that is their albatross.

Removing a sportscaster because his name is Robert Lee? Oy vey ...

Everyone knows the Southern Racist were Democrats. If you wanted to be in politics in the South, you were a democrat. All that changed starting in 1964 when the coalition of Northern Democrats and Northern Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. So that's where we were. Where are we now?

Obama's Resurrected 1960's.

 

[g5000]

Do the Troglocrats need even more infamy?

OP seems to have selected the "abandon thread" route. Evidently didn't go the way he envisioned.

He's probably back at Stormfront bragging about how he beat up some antis here.

 

[Pogo]

You think they will stop? It is all about the incremental destruction of America.

Once they are done with this pathetic issue, they will be moving on to the Jefferson Memorial, Washington memorial, Mount Rushmore, etc.

The dumb sheep will follow right along until the country is in ashes, the free market is done and we are all under the control by big brother from cradle to grave.

Just so you know.

None of those were erected by the Lost Cause movement for the purpose of rewriting the history of the Civil War.

And none of that has jack friggety squat to do with "markets" or "big brothers". With the exceptions of course, of those who think they can drive across three states to come charging into a community that's already elected to move its propaganda pieces out of the public square, and make that local decision go away by mowing people down with a car.

Just so you know.

 

[BlindBoo]

The people of Virginia elected to take down a statue.

The tards on this forum are suddenly in favor of out of state interlopers interfering in the will of the people of Virginia.

How about that!

They'll be asking President Grab-Ass to send in the National Guard to protect the Con-Statues.

 

[Slash]

So is the argument against them that US monuments shouldn't be judged on any politics that may be associated with them or their purposefulness and use. But rather since the US Government put them up, we should keep them?

 

[BlindBoo]

Billy_Kinetta thinks it "funny" to be aware of one's history.

Isn't that eloquent.

I am quite well-versed in history, thank you.

It's you I think is funny.

Yet it's the post that you mark as "funny" so apparently you're not as well-versed as you imagine.

Well versed enough to note that you omitted Democrat responsibility for the resurrection of the Klan, the surge in Jim Crow laws, the surge in lynchings and riots. What a funny guy you are.

They are doing the same thing today in the hope of burying that history that is their albatross.

Removing a sportscaster because his name is Robert Lee? Oy vey ...

Everyone knows the Southern Racist were Democrats. If you wanted to be in politics in the South, you were a democrat. All that changed starting in 1964 when the coalition of Northern Democrats and Northern Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. So that's where we were. Where are we now?

Obama's Resurrected 1960's.

Yeah right, cause race was never a problem or divisive issue until one of them() became president huh?

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

I am quite well-versed in history, thank you.

It's you I think is funny.

Yet it's the post that you mark as "funny" so apparently you're not as well-versed as you imagine.

Well versed enough to note that you omitted Democrat responsibility for the resurrection of the Klan, the surge in Jim Crow laws, the surge in lynchings and riots. What a funny guy you are.

They are doing the same thing today in the hope of burying that history that is their albatross.

Removing a sportscaster because his name is Robert Lee? Oy vey ...

Everyone knows the Southern Racist were Democrats. If you wanted to be in politics in the South, you were a democrat. All that changed starting in 1964 when the coalition of Northern Democrats and Northern Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. So that's where we were. Where are we now?

Obama's Resurrected 1960's.

Yeah right, cause race was never a problem or divisive issue until one of them() became president huh?

Many issues had been resolved by the time Obama took office. He ripped open the wounds again, for political purposes.

I grew up in the 60s. These times are an orchestrated reversion to the sentiments of that time, save the fact that the anger is greatly magnified by media.

Many of the same troublemakers of that time, and their political heirs, are conducting things now.

 

[Timmy]

Do the Troglocrats need even more infamy?

It's a little thing called JUSTICE !

 

[bendog]

So is the argument against them that US monuments shouldn't be judged on any politics that may be associated with them or their purposefulness and use. But rather since the US Government put them up, we should keep them?

Thing is that it's factually impossible to argue against the Charlottesville statues to Lee and Jackson not being erected in part to support Jim Crow politics - given who paid for them, when they were erected, and what both Charlottesville and UVa were like in the 1920s. HOWEVER, those facts don't really determine what the stutues mean, and should mean, to people in Charlottesville today. IF I were a resident of Charlottesville, I'd argue the history of the statues are worth preserving BECAUSE they don't reflect well on the characters of either man nor on the person who paid for them or the civil institutions. They are shameful, and anyone arguing otherwise is a damn liar. But, Charlottesville govt voted to take thme down, so BFD. GTFO it, Klan and Nazis. You lost, go the fuck home.

That doesn't make it better for the girl who was murdered, the injured or their families. And people who live in Charlottesville feel less safe now. Way to go statue supporters. You did so well to make the points for those who oppose the damn things.

 

[Pogo]

So is the argument against them that US monuments shouldn't be judged on any politics that may be associated with them or their purposefulness and use. But rather since the US Government put them up, we should keep them?

Thing is that it's factually impossible to argue against the Charlottesville statues to Lee and Jackson not being erected in part to support Jim Crow politics - given who paid for them, when they were erected, and what both Charlottesville and UVa were like in the 1920s. HOWEVER, those facts don't really determine what the stutues mean, and should mean, to people in Charlottesville today. IF I were a resident of Charlottesville, I'd argue the history of the statues are worth preserving BECAUSE they don't reflect well on the characters of either man nor on the person who paid for them or the civil institutions. They are shameful, and anyone arguing otherwise is a damn liar. But, Charlottesville govt voted to take thme down, so BFD. GTFO it, Klan and Nazis. You lost, go the fuck home.

That doesn't make it better for the girl who was murdered, the injured or their families. And people who live in Charlottesville feel less safe now. Way to go statue supporters. You did so well to make the points for those who oppose the damn things.

And again, it bears repeating ---- "removing a statue" doesn't make that statue no longer exist. They get moved to a cemetery or a battlefield memorial site or a museum. So the only thing changing is the venue where they stand, where they were originally and deliberately placed to imply an "assent" from the community, an air of "legitimacy". That's propaganda power, and that is what will no longer exist.

I think both sides know that, and it is indeed what the struggle is.

Because "Who controls the past controls the future".

 

[bendog]

So is the argument against them that US monuments shouldn't be judged on any politics that may be associated with them or their purposefulness and use. But rather since the US Government put them up, we should keep them?

Thing is that it's factually impossible to argue against the Charlottesville statues to Lee and Jackson not being erected in part to support Jim Crow politics - given who paid for them, when they were erected, and what both Charlottesville and UVa were like in the 1920s. HOWEVER, those facts don't really determine what the stutues mean, and should mean, to people in Charlottesville today. IF I were a resident of Charlottesville, I'd argue the history of the statues are worth preserving BECAUSE they don't reflect well on the characters of either man nor on the person who paid for them or the civil institutions. They are shameful, and anyone arguing otherwise is a damn liar. But, Charlottesville govt voted to take thme down, so BFD. GTFO it, Klan and Nazis. You lost, go the fuck home.

That doesn't make it better for the girl who was murdered, the injured or their families. And people who live in Charlottesville feel less safe now. Way to go statue supporters. You did so well to make the points for those who oppose the damn things.

And again, it bears repeating ---- "removing a statue" doesn't make that statue no longer exist. They get moved to a cemetery or a battlefield memorial site or a museum. So the only thing changing is the venue where they stand, where they were originally and deliberately placed to imply an "assent" from the community, an air of "legitimacy". That's propaganda power, and that is what will no longer exist.

I think both sides know that, and it is indeed what the struggle is.

Because "Who controls the past controls the future".

I think the White Supremecists (and less so the Klan) were just looking for a place to parade the victimhood of white nationalism. "Something" is being taken from us. Our history? I think it's more economic. The White Suprmecists who want a white homeland have economic grievances. They tend to be younger and more educated than the Klan, as I understand it. I don't think the blacks are taking Jack Shit from them, but ... HB1 visas ..... maybe.

But the young woman who ended up making the ultimate sacrifice, even though she never signed up for standing in front of fucking car on sidewalk in a pedestrian mall of all places, pretty much ended the WN search for good publicity.

What's lost on the Trumpbots in all of this is UVa. It's no longer a bastion of white gentility. There's always been a black population, but it's still segregated. But the professors have trouble affording to live in the city. Like many college towns the educated boomers return. The place has microbrews, small eateries, whole foods and trader joes, lol. Not exactly a Klan or young kid bastion .. unless the kid's in one of the more expensive public universities. LOL

 

[BlindBoo]

Yet it's the post that you mark as "funny" so apparently you're not as well-versed as you imagine.

Well versed enough to note that you omitted Democrat responsibility for the resurrection of the Klan, the surge in Jim Crow laws, the surge in lynchings and riots. What a funny guy you are.

They are doing the same thing today in the hope of burying that history that is their albatross.

Removing a sportscaster because his name is Robert Lee? Oy vey ...

Everyone knows the Southern Racist were Democrats. If you wanted to be in politics in the South, you were a democrat. All that changed starting in 1964 when the coalition of Northern Democrats and Northern Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. So that's where we were. Where are we now?

Obama's Resurrected 1960's.

Yeah right, cause race was never a problem or divisive issue until one of them() became president huh?

Many issues had been resolved by the time Obama took office. He ripped open the wounds again, for political purposes.

I grew up in the 60s. These times are an orchestrated reversion to the sentiments of that time, save the fact that the anger is greatly magnified by media.

Many of the same troublemakers of that time, and their political heirs, are conducting things now.

I will agree that the election of a black man as President enraged and emboldened those who opposed him for nothing more than the color of his skin, long before he ever took office. That enraged segment was co-opted for political purposes.

I can see protesting against the draft and the war in Vietnam. I can't see protesting over a statue.

 

[Doc1]

It's a wedge issue, nothing more. I predict that this will spark some progressively worse confrontations and ultimately massive violence leading to a Constitutional crisis.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Well versed enough to note that you omitted Democrat responsibility for the resurrection of the Klan, the surge in Jim Crow laws, the surge in lynchings and riots. What a funny guy you are.

They are doing the same thing today in the hope of burying that history that is their albatross.

Removing a sportscaster because his name is Robert Lee? Oy vey ...

Everyone knows the Southern Racist were Democrats. If you wanted to be in politics in the South, you were a democrat. All that changed starting in 1964 when the coalition of Northern Democrats and Northern Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. So that's where we were. Where are we now?

Obama's Resurrected 1960's.

Yeah right, cause race was never a problem or divisive issue until one of them() became president huh?

Many issues had been resolved by the time Obama took office. He ripped open the wounds again, for political purposes.

I grew up in the 60s. These times are an orchestrated reversion to the sentiments of that time, save the fact that the anger is greatly magnified by media.

Many of the same troublemakers of that time, and their political heirs, are conducting things now.

I will agree that the election of a black man as President enraged and emboldened those who opposed him for nothing more than the color of his skin, long before he ever took office. That enraged segment was co-opted for political purposes.

I can see protesting against the draft and the war in Vietnam. I can't see protesting over a statue.

The election of a black man had nothing to do with it, since it was the white man that put him into office. It's a nonsenscal argument. Had he been white he'd have never been the Democrat candidate.

His political intent was from the git-go to stir up chaos and disrupt American society, and that he did.

What is occurring today rests on his shoulders, and those of his party. Pray it doesn't escalate to its potential, because frankly you people don't have the numbers, much less a belief in anything worth fighting for.