What is 'Zionism'?

[Lisa558]

Israel's destruction of Gaza was righteous, and pretty muted considering what the hamas dogs did to Israel's innocents. I would have used nuclear weapons.

It’s true that Israel exercised restraint. In fact, I was amazed that after the horror of what HAMAS did to innocent Jews, they STILL warned the Palestinians - who, let’s face it, celebrated the massacre for the most part - with flyers and delayed the assault so they can evacuate.

OTOH, if the Palestinians had nukes, they would have used them to wipe out Israel and her Jews.

No moral equivalence at all.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

So in all of these discussions surrounding Israel with our local conspiracy theorists that hide behind 'Zionism' to spew their hate on Jews, I have yet to get one single definition of what exactly it is. So now is your chance to explain how a 'Zionist' differs from a Jew in their thoughts and beliefs and why it is 'evil'. Please also show evidence of what you say. One of our board conspiracy theorists, Mr. Beale, posted a link to an article where in the article they state that there isn't a definitive agreement on what Zionism is. I think if you're going to throw that term around as a reason for your animosity towards Jews or Israel, then you should be willing to define what it means to you.

Most US Jews do not identify as ‘Zionists,’ even when they support Israel, JFNA survey finds - Jewish Telegraphic Agency


From the article:

The findings of the survey reveal that American Jews do not have a mutually agreed-upon definition of Zionism — with those identifying as anti-Zionist and those identifying as Zionist ascribing sharply different meanings to the term.

If you accuse somebody of bigotry iow “hate on Jews”, you have to prove it. And no you don’t get to tell people they are racist because you don’t like how somebody talks about a Zionist or Israeli lobbying… You have to show them saying Jews are inferior to non-Jews. You know what’s fascinating about all of this….Tell us all what you think about Muslims.



This is very simple. A lot of people don’t like dead babies in Gaza. They criticize the Israeli government. They criticize the Israeli lobby. The Israeli lobby and the Israel Israeli government are Zionist. Whatever you’re doing is just a big nothing burger.


I personally recognize the existence of Israel, along with every country that has a member of the United Nations. I’m not against all Zionists… there is a lot of nuance in this discussion and that’s something that you just don’t care about at all. You call people Muslims, you call people liars, you call people Jew haters, and you do so unapologetically and relentlessly.




I do not support the United States giving weapons and money to the current israeli government. Whatever you’re doing here again it’s just a big waste of time and a nothing burger.

 

[0311]

So in all of these discussions surrounding Israel with our local conspiracy theorists that hide behind 'Zionism' to spew their hate on Jews, I have yet to get one single definition of what exactly it is. So now is your chance to explain how a 'Zionist' differs from a Jew in their thoughts and beliefs and why it is 'evil'. Please also show evidence of what you say. One of our board conspiracy theorists, Mr. Beale, posted a link to an article where in the article they state that there isn't a definitive agreement on what Zionism is. I think if you're going to throw that term around as a reason for your animosity towards Jews or Israel, then you should be willing to define what it means to you.

Most US Jews do not identify as ‘Zionists,’ even when they support Israel, JFNA survey finds - Jewish Telegraphic Agency


From the article:

The findings of the survey reveal that American Jews do not have a mutually agreed-upon definition of Zionism — with those identifying as anti-Zionist and those identifying as Zionist ascribing sharply different meanings to the term.

You ten different people, and you will get ten different ideas on what Zionism is.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

Well, there were at least 8 major Zionist movements at the turn of the century, at least two of which were Labor Zionists. The first two or three Aliyahs were Russian Jews, fleeing the Cossacks, and were offered sanctuary by the Ottomans.The others were European movements of different reasons, I don't remember them all. The ones after WW II is the big migration most are familiar with. Those came from the refugee camps of Europe, followed by the Arab expulsions of some 700,000 to over a million from the Muslim countries. This is all painted as nefarious and evil by assorted halfwits and nutjobs. These uppity Jews just kept defending themselves and refusing to be mass murdered by filthy feral Arab savages, the arrogant bastards.

That's the short answer, and yes, it's true most Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox don't recognize the modern stat of Israel as the fulfillment of Zionist prophecy, but only idiots think that means they feel some duty to be massacred by Muslims and Nazis, just because they think the real Zion is still to come.

 

[Captain Creeper]

Well, there were at least 8 major Zionist movements at the turn of the century, at least two of which were Labor Zionists. The first two or three Aliyahs were Russian Jews, fleeing the Cossacks, and were offered sanctuary by the Ottomans.The others were European movements of different reasons, I don't remember them all. The ones after WW II is the big migration most are familiar with. Those came from the refugee camps of Europe, followed by the Arab expulsions of some 700,000 to over a million from the Muslim countries. This is all painted as nefarious and evil by assorted halfwits and nutjobs. These uppity Jews just kept defending themselves and refusing to be mass murdered by filthy feral Arab savages, the arrogant bastards.

The Crusades were pretty cool too.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

The Crusades were pretty cool too.

Yep. The commies and deviants also hate it when the evul Xians defend themselves, too.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

your claim, "It gets its violent supremacist core from the Rabbinical teachings found in the Talmud, a disgusting book." bespeaks a serious ignorance of the talmud. You have probably fallen prey to those websites that list supposed quotes from the talmud. You might want to consider actually studying content instead of taking haters' words for it.

And the "greater Israel" philosophy? You clearly don't know what that means.

This whole thing is about a foreign government in Israel and it’s violent war in Gaza, along with the powerful Israeli lobby.

This whole debate about this word Zionism is a big nothing burger. There is legit criticism of the Israeli government, of Jews. There are bad Christians, there are bad Jews …Almost everyone who is criticizing the Israeli government is not criticizing not all Jews. And most of these people including those like Tucker Carlson have openly said they like Israel but just don’t like the current israeli government.

There are people who think the Quran is very violent. Jews are far far less criticized, compared to other groups of people in the mainstream media. HBO lets Bill Maher say whatever he wants about how evil Islam is. Fox News has a number of people who openly say Islam and the Quran is violent. There is nothing like that when it comes to criticizing the Torah on HBO, CNN, or Fox…. It only comes from social media like on Reddit. And so what that is somebody’s right if they want to criticize the Bible, the Quran or the Torah. Jews aren’t special they’re just like Muslims or Christians.

 

[rosends]

This whole thing is about a foreign government in Israel and it’s violent war in Gaza, along with the powerful Israeli lobby.

This whole debate about this word Zionism is a big nothing burger. There is legit criticism of the Israeli government, of Jews. There are bad Christians, there are bad Jews …Almost everyone who is criticizing the Israeli government is not criticizing not all Jews. And most of these people including those like taco Carlson have openly said they like Israel but just don’t like the current israeli government.

There are people who think the Quran is very violent. Jews are far far less criticized, compared to other groups of people in the mainstream media. HBO lets Bill Maher say whatever he wants about how evil Islam is. Fox News has a number of people who openly say Islam in the Quran is violent. There is nothing like that when it comes to criticizing the Torah on HBO, CNN, or Fox…. It only comes from social media. And so what that is somebody’s right if they want to criticize the Bible, the Quran or the Torah. Jews aren’t special they’re just like Muslims or Christians.

That's nice. Why is this a reply to me?

 

[EdwinAMartin]

Labor Zionism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Second Aliyah - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

History of Aliyah | tarshish

www.tarshish.org.il

... and so on. No Big Giant Conspiracy here.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

What I find fascinating is that Israel is the only state on earth where people ask if it has a right to exist, especially where there are far, far worse regimes in the world and no one asks that question about them. In fact, the UN only writes resolutions against Israel it seems. The UN will write a resolution against Israel for building walls while just south of the border in the Sudan there is an open genocide of Christians being slaughtered that the world completely ignores.

Funny that.

I also find in interesting that the catalyst for the Zionist state for coming into existence was the Holocaust, but what many people don't know is that Jews were persecuted for centuries before even the Holocaust. In fact, everything that was done to them in Nazi Germany had been done to them for centuries prior in Europe, such as forcing them to wear special garb to help identify them so they would not who to target, or rounding them up in ghettos to force them to live there, or kicking them out of entire countries, or rounding them up in mass and killing them on a consistent basis.

Hell, no wonder there was a Zionist movement. And now that they have their country, I think they realize that Israel is now their Masada. If they lose it, they all die. It is just that simple.

As for what the rest of the world thinks, who the hell cares? Hearings someone say that Israel should not exist is about as meaningful to me as them saying I should not exist. I say just get bent and mind your own damned business.

Before Israel was created in 1948 Jews were very much a part of the fabric of the United States of America. Where they thrived as patriots.

It’s funny that it’s actually Nazis and some Zionists who share the same ideology that “Jews are only safe in Israel” or that Jews should leave their homeland and just go to Israel. Nazis love it when Jews leave and go to a different country …A twisted racist ideology. To bad for the racists, the majority of Jews in the world to live outside of Israel and have four generations been a patriotic part of their countries.

There have been quite a few groups of history that have literally been wiped out and don’t exist anymore. Jews are not one of them. Jews are not special. They are just like Muslims or Christians. They are open to criticism. They do good things they do bad things.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

Arabs invented the suicide vest. Jews did not.

lol all this stuff about Arab and Muslims… how about the United Arab Emirates which is pro Israel.

Ah Lisa558 Dogmaphobe tell us all what you think about Muslim. I mean, this is hilarious and fascinating at the same time. You can’t make this stuff up. These people lie relentlessly and unapologetically about people being anti-Jewish and then say what they say about Muslims.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

It's a very complex situation and discussions of abstract rights are irrelevant. One has the rights one can defend, and the modern history of Israel and the Arabs has been shaped by the refusal of the Arabs to live in peace with Jews and the Arab attempts to conquer the Jewish people. Realistically, Israel has a right to exist because it has defeated all the Arab attempts to destroy it.

Sure personally, I recognize everyone of the member states of the United Nations. Everyone though has a right to criticize any government in the world without being called a racist.

You are providing your opinion above. And that’s fine. I just hope that you’re not one of those people that throws around the word racist or anti-Jew recklessly.

See how many times do you see people who criticize the Saudi Arabian government being called an anti Muslim bigot?

 

[EdwinAMartin]

What I find fascinating is that Israel is the only state on earth where people ask if it has a right to exist, especially where there are far, far worse regimes in the world and no one asks that question about them. In fact, the UN only writes resolutions against Israel it seems. The UN will write a resolution against Israel for building walls while just south of the border in the Sudan there is an open genocide of Christians being slaughtered that the world completely ignores.

Yep. Thats' because they're sociopaths and think Joos are micro-chipping their underwear and somehow robbing them of zillions, never mind the vast majority of these dorks pay maybe 4 cents a year in loans to Israel out of their wages, if that.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

The Chinese invented that, Japanese also adopted it later.

Arabs made it in kids sizes.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

Well, there were at least 8 major Zionist movements at the turn of the century, at least two of which were Labor Zionists. The first two or three Aliyahs were Russian Jews, fleeing the Cossacks, and were offered sanctuary by the Ottomans.The others were European movements of different reasons, I don't remember them all. The ones after WW II is the big migration most are familiar with. Those came from the refugee camps of Europe, followed by the Arab expulsions of some 700,000 to over a million from the Muslim countries. This is all painted as nefarious and evil by assorted halfwits and nutjobs. These uppity Jews just kept defending themselves and refusing to be mass murdered by filthy feral Arab savages, the arrogant bastards.

That's the short answer, and yes, it's true most Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox don't recognize the modern stat of Israel as the fulfillment of Zionist prophecy, but only idiots think that means they feel some duty to be massacred by Muslims and Nazis, just because they think the real Zion is still to come.

a group of people creating a political state thousands of miles away from their homeland(Zionism) is something that is going to be fought against. Jews are not special. If Kurds or Zoroastrians or Assyrians attempted to create their own state it would be opposed by people who are currently living in those states.

And Again what is it with you people going after Arabs? There’s millions of Arab Jews. And what about the United Arab Emirates which is pro-Israel. Boy you guys are something else. Yeah go ahead and just laugh it off and keep moaning about people being anti-Jewish when they are not.

 

[Churchill]

It’s true that Israel exercised restraint. In fact, I was amazed that after the horror of what HAMAS did to innocent Jews, they STILL warned the Palestinians - who, let’s face it, celebrated the massacre for the most part - with flyers and delayed the assault so they can evacuate.

OTOH, if the Palestinians had nukes, they would have used them to wipe out Israel and her Jews.

No moral equivalence at all.

Understand something madam, your infatuation with all matters Israel is well known, as are objections to it.

Now hear this, Israel will cause world war three and Israel will be the first nation to use nuclear weapons, this is very clear to many people.

Countries can either take steps to prevent this or carry on passively watching and allowing the Zionists to keep running their mouths off, it can be stopped, but I fear its now too late, the Zionist regime have just ethnically cleansed a million people and the "developed" world has done nothing to prevent it.

 

[Oddball]

I rather think it's been hijacked by antisemite's that want cover for their biases and hatred towards Jews.

no

Why is the 'permanent war' label never applied to the muslims who constantly attack Israel and Jews regardless of any outside intervention or attempts to bring things to a peaceful coexistence?

I apply it to them too...It take two to stay at war forever....Don't say that I speak for anyone else but myself.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

a group of people creating a political state thousands of miles away from their homeland(Zionism) is something that is going to be fought against. Jews are not special. If Kurds or Zoroastrians or Assyrians attempted to create their own state it would be opposed by people who are currently living in those states.

And Again what is it with you people going after Arabs? There’s millions of Arab Jews. And what about the United Arab Emirates which is pro-Israel. Boy you guys are something else. Yeah go ahead and just laugh it off and keep moaning about people being anti-Jewish when they are not.

lol you're a sick tard. Babbling idiot rubbish at me just wastes my time. I don't read your gibberish, I've been going to this rodeo for decades now, and you got nothing but parroting the same crap from the 1960's.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

I would argue it is the precise opposite. First, what other "race" has this "right"? Second, who is this entity that hands out these rights? Where are these native homelands? Do I have a claim to Jutland? It is insane.

Pretty much every stuck in the 60's doper brat who babbles about 'indigenous peoples n stuff' and 'first nations', for one.

Have any other idiotic questions, dufus?

 

[Winston]

Pretty much every stuck in the 60's doper brat who babbles about 'indigenous peoples n stuff' and 'first nations', for one.

Have any other idiotic questions, dufus?

Bullshit. Have any of the First Nation tribes in Canada demanded their "self-determined, native," homeland? Is the US giving the Dakota's back to the Lakota? And, let's talk about Japan. The Yamato and Shinto. A more homogeneous group than the Jews. If any ethnic group deserves a homeland it is them, but do they expect the entire international community to support them. Did they claim some divine right to the Island when China was trying to invade? No, no they did not.

I mean the claim, that the Jews are somehow entitled to this land because of some promise made to their so called long lost relatives is comical. Hell, they are no more genetically linked to the original inhabitants of that land than Native Americans. The Diaspora watered down their genetics to the point that there is no resemblance to the original Jews, the twelve tribes. In fact, the Palestinians are probably more closely linked.