What is “Trumpism”?

[Mac1958]

Are you referring to all those minorities voting Democrat by default based on skin color? YES, Dems have them scared shitless and ofcourse, by and large they are quite politically ignorant.
I’m certain Mac1958 has posted extensively on the scare tactics used by the Mexicrat Party.

As possibly the stupidest and most fearful person on USMB, I'm not surprised my point evaded you - but the fact is, I'm talking about YOU!

Hmm... maybe you did know that, and that's why you responded. If so - kudos. You're catching on!

He's miserable and terrified. The bravado is just an act to hide his paranoia. Not working.

 

[Mac1958]

We know that you are no fan of the regressive left, but you are still going to vote for them. You made it clear that you are not an independent. I was 100% factually correct. You dislike Trump's personality and you will most likely vote for the regressive left. Again, you don't do positions, all you do is complain about demeanor. Trump's personality + X = vote for the regressive left. Problem is, you are far from the only one who never gets to the X part. You've never mentioned being keen on any third party candidate. Whatever X is, it must be pretty interesting for you to vote for all that garbage you are proud of speaking out against.

The problem with your point of view, Dusty, at least regarding "personality" versus "policy", is that Trump's personality makes policy a moot point. When the personality in question is stupid and dishonest, the rest of just doesn't matter. I can't trust anything he says, so what he says is irrelevant. And what he does is arbitrary and unpredictable.

What they never seem to understand is that behavior and temperament can profoundly affect both actions and responses.

Why this has to be so complicated is a mystery.

Still waiting for that X Mac. Of course temperament can affect actions. What seems to be complicated and a mystery is the disagreeable actions you believe Trump's behavior is causing. I think it is fair to ask for a political opponent to separate the personality from actual policy.

What? Every freaking thing he DOES is influenced by his temperament. Denying the severity of the virus for so long, giving so many mixed and flawed and fucked up signals on the virus that we have NO leadership as people DIE, alienating the rest of the world INCLUDING our former allies, emboldening Russia and China to take advantage of our instability and shrinkage from the world stage, lying and bullshitting with such consistency that NO decision-makers on the PLANET can take him seriously, putting our manufacturing industry on a prolonged recession because of his tariffs, going through critical staff hires like water because people can't stand working him OR because they didn't bend over, on and on.

And I say "on and on" because I know you won't agree with any of that. Why bother posting more.

So now, instead of voting third party as I would LIKE to, I'm stuck voting directly against Trump. Again.

You're an obedient Trumpster. Good for you. I'm only voting for Biden because Trumpism is ugly and ignorant and dangerous.

Well I'm glad you provided that much. You are right, I don't agree with you, but I didn't know people on message boards, or political opponents had to agree. I think people largely respected your posts, and would be willing to listen to your side. I don't think you had to give up and can still find meaningful discussion. If you wanted to talk about any one of the issues you brought up, I'm sure people would be willing to discuss it. You wouldn't even have to convince people to join your position, you could just show different opinions and show someone an accurate alternative to their viewpoints.

Always happy to. I have interesting discussions every day here. But I have no patience for those who have to lie make points. Once that happens, I get bored, and I'm done.

 

[Correll]

Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman.

Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism.

Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government".

Yeah. That's about it.

Are you sure it’s not just a fed up and retaliatory Right that has been given a label by ‘paranoid’ Leftists in an attempt to shut them back up?

There are many on the right, conservatives that are very much against Trump. His method of governing is toxic and people of all ideologies can recognize that.

his enemies are in open insurrection in the streets. that is "toxic" and "divisive".

if you consider trump the bad guy right now, you are the problem, not him.

I agree that many of Trump opponents are engaging in dishonest and unacceptable behavior. But if you don’t think Trump is neck deep in that crap then you are blind. I know the tactic is accuse the accusers instead of taking responsibility but you’re not fooling anybody with that tactic

the resist call went out before trump took office. before trump took office, federal agents were lying to judges to get warrants against him.


mayors are ordering the cops to stand down, so rioters can rule the streets and terrorize law abiding citizens.

innocent citizens are being arrested for defending themselves against violent mobs.


TRump is not the problem. the problem is that a significant portion of the left, is no longer respecting the peaceful transfer of power.

That’s a very skewed and dishonest representation of history you’re presenting there. Some of those points we’ve debated in the past. Sounds like you’re dug in on that narrative but that’s just not how I see it. I guess that’s just how it is during these divided times

teh resist call went out, almost immediately after the election.


that is not me being "dishonest", that is the truth.

TRump is not the problem. the problem is that a significant portion of the left, is no longer respecting the peaceful transfer of power.

Yes a call went out as soon as Trump was elected just as a call went out to stop Obama right after he was elected and just as the wings of every party activate to challenge the opposition when they gain power. But Trump owns the intensity of this battle and has fueled both his resistance and his followers with his rhetoric and method of attack. Smart leaders don’t give attention to the noise makers and they focus on the important things. As you can see clearly in this board, the conversation has devolved to grade school levels. The partisan haters who love to attack are emboldened and they love Trump because he propagates these type of fights. I don’t know why these people think a divided America that hates eachother is a better America than one that is unified but that seems to be the trend. That’s what Trumpism is all about

big difference between the republicans planning a partisan, and political fight to make obama a one termer,


and your side refusing to respect the peaceful transfer of power.


that you blame others, for your behavior, is understandable. if i was you, i would not want to be held accountable for the shit your side has done either.

What’s been my behavior? What have I done specifically to challenge the transfer of power? Come on now, you accused me, now back it up. Show examples

you're identifying with your side. thank you for not denying it.


as to your personals actions in support of it, i can guess. probably a shit ton of pushing the narrative and carrying water for certain important lies.

You just said a whole lot of nothing. LMK when you’re ready to talk about real stuff. I have no interest in these generic labels and stereotypes. They are a waste of time

i made a comment about your side's behavior and you self identified with it.

that was your call. as to your personal contribution, you can share that with us, if you want. or not.

That’s all I do here is share my perspective. You ignore the specific to try and attack “my side” the imaginary left. It’s called a strawman argument and it is a weak minded tactic used by those who can’t deal with specifics. You seem like a relatively smart person. Do better.

you blamed trump for something that was actually the fault of teh group, "the left".

your dislike of discussing groups or using such labels, is common with liberals.


my point stands. trump is not responsible for the hysterical reaction from your side, to his election.

Trump attacked the media by calling them fake news and the enemy of the people so he faces a more hostile media than any other president. Yes that is provoked outcome. ....

the media have been growing increasingly partisan and lefty for decades.

that hillary's loss and trump's win, drove them over the edge, is not trump's fault.


calling them fake news and the enemy of the people, is a reasonable response to their behavior.


remember the way they just flat out lied about what he said at charlottesville? that was unforgivable.

The animosity against Trump is Absolutely his fault. He was on every show during the campaign, got a priceless amount of free airtime. It wasn’t u til he started his fake news campaign that the media turned on him. I don’t really blame them. When the most powerful man in the world is lying to the public I understand the urge to want to call him on it. That’s what’s been happening.

you're kidding yourself. the media was completely partisan whores during the obama years, before trump was a factor.


immediately after the glory of hte first black president, they bought into the glory of the first woman president.


they thought that the next republican president had not yet been born.


they were offended that trump was speaking out for working class white men. that alone was enough to piss them off.

Well gee, look at how Obama spoke to and treated the media. I don’t know how you were raised but typically relationships are build off of trust and respect. When Trump lies and disrespects all who challenge him then he is going to foster contentious relationships. You are ignorantly pushing all the blame onto Trumps opponents and not recognizing the primary cause... Trump

i was just looking at the day after he announced to see what the media was saying, day one.


everything it seems is behind a pay wall, but the headlines, the bits i could see,


do not look like there were starting out objective and balanced....

Of course not. There had been a steady decline through the campaign as Trump got more and more aggressive and dishonest. The more the media called him on the more he attacked the media. It’s his default reaction.

Trump lies, media calls him on the lie, trump calls the media fake news. Thats the formula. You do see this dont you?

except if that was the way it went, the stories from the day after he announced, would have been neutral.


they were not. they were already hostile. even before he said or did anything.

Why would they be neutral? I just explained how the relationship between Trump and the media had been eroding throughout the campaign. Why would an election erase all of that?

i'm talking about the day immediately after his announcement he was running. it would have been day one of his campaign.

You mean after the escalator speech when he said Mexico is sending us rapists and murders? You think he got unfair coverage?

you made the claim that the unfair coverage was a result of trump's behavior over time.


day one, that excuse does not fly.

I don’t think anybody deserves unfair coverage so if that’s how you’re characterizing my statement then you are mistaken. There have been false stories and distorted statements made which is inexcusable. But the vast majority of the coverage on Trump has been centered around fact checking his false statements. Critical coverage is not fake news.

1. thank you for admitting that there have been false stories and distorted statements.

2. claiming the president said nazis were "Good people" is one story. calling the president on the size of a crowd and the size of his bank account, is two stories. but the nazi lie is far more important. the media is waging a War on Trump and their behavior is inexcusable.

 

[Correll]

It is pretty clear the left got very comfortable with having no strong opposition.

i think that is really it. even when republicans won, they never really stood up to the left on cultural issues or challenged their right to control the narrative.


trump did. he was not afraid. very impressive. and totally shocking to the left.

What exactly is it about a “strong opposition” that you think is a good thing for Americans?

well, i didn't say for "americans" but for " the left" and i made no comment on whether it was a good thing for them or not, just that they were unable to deal with it.

Well then make the statement now... do you think that “strong opposition” is a good thing for Americans or not?

i think it depends, on what the opposition is about, how it is waged and what is going on.

there is nothing inherent in the structure of our society that requires it. a time of unity and conformity could be just as "good thing for America" as a time of intense debate and constructive debate.


my point though, was about the left's inability to deal with having strong opposition and their hysterical reaction to it.


they are acting like children, having a violent tantrum.

 

[Correll]

Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman.

Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism.

Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government".

Day-to-day existence within an ideological bubble that considers any "news" or "information" not provided within that bubble to be "fake news".

Yeah. That's about it.

That's pretty good. I was just going to describe it as knee-jerk dime-store patriotism for the slogan susceptible masses, so they do not have to think, only emotionally feel the orange thrill down the back of their leg. Yours is better.

nothing wrong with patriotism. i'm proud to be a patriotic American.


and the "thrill down the leg", was one of yours, not ours.


funny you got that confused.

Shoot, I'm a patriot. Lots of patriots on this board of different political strip or philosophical position. Most are not just MAGA-pies, though.

if you were a patriot, you would not be offended by trump's patriotism or the patriotism of his supporters.

trump patriotism is to himself and to himself alone......#Becauseitsacult.

as an American Patriot, i appreciate that he called out the bastards kneelers as the pieces of shit they are.

 

[cwise76]

Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman.

Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism.

Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government".

Day-to-day existence within an ideological bubble that considers any "news" or "information" not provided within that bubble to be "fake news".

Yeah. That's about it.

Explanation of above....
"Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman". - what he is really saying is the refusal to follow along with constant condemnation of Trump based on generalizations, word play and accepted narratives.

"Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism." - this is just rewording above, but emotionalizing it. Again, anyone who doesn't follow along with the 24 hour/day criticisms of Trump is guilty of these things automatically, regardless of the validity of those criticisms.

"Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government" - this sounds good, so I will throw this in.

Day-to-day existence within an ideological bubble that considers any "news" or "information" not provided within that bubble to be "fake news". Once again, just rewording the same accusation, much like the 1,000's of Trump criticisms we hear a day. If you don't go along with the narrative presented... you are an evil, ignorant person.

Yeah that's about it.

If the shoe fits

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman.

Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism.

Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government".

Day-to-day existence within an ideological bubble that considers any "news" or "information" not provided within that bubble to be "fake news".

Yeah. That's about it.

Explanation of above....
"Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman". - what he is really saying is the refusal to follow along with constant condemnation of Trump based on generalizations, word play and accepted narratives.

"Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism." - this is just rewording above, but emotionalizing it. Again, anyone who doesn't follow along with the 24 hour/day criticisms of Trump is guilty of these things automatically, regardless of the validity of those criticisms.

"Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government" - this sounds good, so I will throw this in.

Day-to-day existence within an ideological bubble that considers any "news" or "information" not provided within that bubble to be "fake news". Once again, just rewording the same accusation, much like the 1,000's of Trump criticisms we hear a day. If you don't go along with the narrative presented... you are an evil, ignorant person.

Yeah that's about it.

If the shoe fits

What shoe? And who is getting fitted?

 

[Slade3200]

Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman.

Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism.

Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government".

Yeah. That's about it.

Are you sure it’s not just a fed up and retaliatory Right that has been given a label by ‘paranoid’ Leftists in an attempt to shut them back up?

There are many on the right, conservatives that are very much against Trump. His method of governing is toxic and people of all ideologies can recognize that.

his enemies are in open insurrection in the streets. that is "toxic" and "divisive".

if you consider trump the bad guy right now, you are the problem, not him.

I agree that many of Trump opponents are engaging in dishonest and unacceptable behavior. But if you don’t think Trump is neck deep in that crap then you are blind. I know the tactic is accuse the accusers instead of taking responsibility but you’re not fooling anybody with that tactic

the resist call went out before trump took office. before trump took office, federal agents were lying to judges to get warrants against him.


mayors are ordering the cops to stand down, so rioters can rule the streets and terrorize law abiding citizens.

innocent citizens are being arrested for defending themselves against violent mobs.


TRump is not the problem. the problem is that a significant portion of the left, is no longer respecting the peaceful transfer of power.

That’s a very skewed and dishonest representation of history you’re presenting there. Some of those points we’ve debated in the past. Sounds like you’re dug in on that narrative but that’s just not how I see it. I guess that’s just how it is during these divided times

teh resist call went out, almost immediately after the election.


that is not me being "dishonest", that is the truth.

TRump is not the problem. the problem is that a significant portion of the left, is no longer respecting the peaceful transfer of power.

Yes a call went out as soon as Trump was elected just as a call went out to stop Obama right after he was elected and just as the wings of every party activate to challenge the opposition when they gain power. But Trump owns the intensity of this battle and has fueled both his resistance and his followers with his rhetoric and method of attack. Smart leaders don’t give attention to the noise makers and they focus on the important things. As you can see clearly in this board, the conversation has devolved to grade school levels. The partisan haters who love to attack are emboldened and they love Trump because he propagates these type of fights. I don’t know why these people think a divided America that hates eachother is a better America than one that is unified but that seems to be the trend. That’s what Trumpism is all about

big difference between the republicans planning a partisan, and political fight to make obama a one termer,


and your side refusing to respect the peaceful transfer of power.


that you blame others, for your behavior, is understandable. if i was you, i would not want to be held accountable for the shit your side has done either.

What’s been my behavior? What have I done specifically to challenge the transfer of power? Come on now, you accused me, now back it up. Show examples

you're identifying with your side. thank you for not denying it.


as to your personals actions in support of it, i can guess. probably a shit ton of pushing the narrative and carrying water for certain important lies.

You just said a whole lot of nothing. LMK when you’re ready to talk about real stuff. I have no interest in these generic labels and stereotypes. They are a waste of time

i made a comment about your side's behavior and you self identified with it.

that was your call. as to your personal contribution, you can share that with us, if you want. or not.

That’s all I do here is share my perspective. You ignore the specific to try and attack “my side” the imaginary left. It’s called a strawman argument and it is a weak minded tactic used by those who can’t deal with specifics. You seem like a relatively smart person. Do better.

you blamed trump for something that was actually the fault of teh group, "the left".

your dislike of discussing groups or using such labels, is common with liberals.


my point stands. trump is not responsible for the hysterical reaction from your side, to his election.

Trump attacked the media by calling them fake news and the enemy of the people so he faces a more hostile media than any other president. Yes that is provoked outcome. ....

the media have been growing increasingly partisan and lefty for decades.

that hillary's loss and trump's win, drove them over the edge, is not trump's fault.


calling them fake news and the enemy of the people, is a reasonable response to their behavior.


remember the way they just flat out lied about what he said at charlottesville? that was unforgivable.

The animosity against Trump is Absolutely his fault. He was on every show during the campaign, got a priceless amount of free airtime. It wasn’t u til he started his fake news campaign that the media turned on him. I don’t really blame them. When the most powerful man in the world is lying to the public I understand the urge to want to call him on it. That’s what’s been happening.

you're kidding yourself. the media was completely partisan whores during the obama years, before trump was a factor.


immediately after the glory of hte first black president, they bought into the glory of the first woman president.


they thought that the next republican president had not yet been born.


they were offended that trump was speaking out for working class white men. that alone was enough to piss them off.

Well gee, look at how Obama spoke to and treated the media. I don’t know how you were raised but typically relationships are build off of trust and respect. When Trump lies and disrespects all who challenge him then he is going to foster contentious relationships. You are ignorantly pushing all the blame onto Trumps opponents and not recognizing the primary cause... Trump

i was just looking at the day after he announced to see what the media was saying, day one.


everything it seems is behind a pay wall, but the headlines, the bits i could see,


do not look like there were starting out objective and balanced....

Of course not. There had been a steady decline through the campaign as Trump got more and more aggressive and dishonest. The more the media called him on the more he attacked the media. It’s his default reaction.

Trump lies, media calls him on the lie, trump calls the media fake news. Thats the formula. You do see this dont you?

except if that was the way it went, the stories from the day after he announced, would have been neutral.


they were not. they were already hostile. even before he said or did anything.

Why would they be neutral? I just explained how the relationship between Trump and the media had been eroding throughout the campaign. Why would an election erase all of that?

i'm talking about the day immediately after his announcement he was running. it would have been day one of his campaign.

You mean after the escalator speech when he said Mexico is sending us rapists and murders? You think he got unfair coverage?

you made the claim that the unfair coverage was a result of trump's behavior over time.


day one, that excuse does not fly.

I don’t think anybody deserves unfair coverage so if that’s how you’re characterizing my statement then you are mistaken. There have been false stories and distorted statements made which is inexcusable. But the vast majority of the coverage on Trump has been centered around fact checking his false statements. Critical coverage is not fake news.

1. thank you for admitting that there have been false stories and distorted statements.

2. claiming the president said nazis were "Good people" is one story. calling the president on the size of a crowd and the size of his bank account, is two stories. but the nazi lie is far more important. the media is waging a War on Trump and their behavior is inexcusable.

The good people on both sides statement could have been clarified in 5 seconds. Trump didn’t do that for a reason. I agree that he was talking about protestors and not Nazis and that situation was politicized by the left. But Trump is guilty of that kind of crap on a daily basis. I’d argue with anybody on the Left pushing False claims and I sure as hell judge and push back on Trump when he does that crap. Not make excuses for him because he is “punching back”... that’s the most childish excuse there is

 

[Slade3200]

It is pretty clear the left got very comfortable with having no strong opposition.

i think that is really it. even when republicans won, they never really stood up to the left on cultural issues or challenged their right to control the narrative.


trump did. he was not afraid. very impressive. and totally shocking to the left.

What exactly is it about a “strong opposition” that you think is a good thing for Americans?

well, i didn't say for "americans" but for " the left" and i made no comment on whether it was a good thing for them or not, just that they were unable to deal with it.

Well then make the statement now... do you think that “strong opposition” is a good thing for Americans or not?

i think it depends, on what the opposition is about, how it is waged and what is going on.

there is nothing inherent in the structure of our society that requires it. a time of unity and conformity could be just as "good thing for America" as a time of intense debate and constructive debate.


my point though, was about the left's inability to deal with having strong opposition and their hysterical reaction to it.


they are acting like children, having a violent tantrum.

I agree the Dems are not handling themselves in a respectable way. I’d vote most of them out of office if I could. Trump is at a whole different level though and I dont think he inspires constructive debate. I see him propagating lies and engaging in childish banter and name calling.

 

[airplanemechanic]

I think hes a fantastic president with incredible leadership skills but I will be the first one to admit he tweets to damn much.

 

[Correll]

Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman.

Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism.

Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government".

Yeah. That's about it.

Are you sure it’s not just a fed up and retaliatory Right that has been given a label by ‘paranoid’ Leftists in an attempt to shut them back up?

There are many on the right, conservatives that are very much against Trump. His method of governing is toxic and people of all ideologies can recognize that.

his enemies are in open insurrection in the streets. that is "toxic" and "divisive".

if you consider trump the bad guy right now, you are the problem, not him.

I agree that many of Trump opponents are engaging in dishonest and unacceptable behavior. But if you don’t think Trump is neck deep in that crap then you are blind. I know the tactic is accuse the accusers instead of taking responsibility but you’re not fooling anybody with that tactic

the resist call went out before trump took office. before trump took office, federal agents were lying to judges to get warrants against him.


mayors are ordering the cops to stand down, so rioters can rule the streets and terrorize law abiding citizens.

innocent citizens are being arrested for defending themselves against violent mobs.


TRump is not the problem. the problem is that a significant portion of the left, is no longer respecting the peaceful transfer of power.

That’s a very skewed and dishonest representation of history you’re presenting there. Some of those points we’ve debated in the past. Sounds like you’re dug in on that narrative but that’s just not how I see it. I guess that’s just how it is during these divided times

teh resist call went out, almost immediately after the election.


that is not me being "dishonest", that is the truth.

TRump is not the problem. the problem is that a significant portion of the left, is no longer respecting the peaceful transfer of power.

Yes a call went out as soon as Trump was elected just as a call went out to stop Obama right after he was elected and just as the wings of every party activate to challenge the opposition when they gain power. But Trump owns the intensity of this battle and has fueled both his resistance and his followers with his rhetoric and method of attack. Smart leaders don’t give attention to the noise makers and they focus on the important things. As you can see clearly in this board, the conversation has devolved to grade school levels. The partisan haters who love to attack are emboldened and they love Trump because he propagates these type of fights. I don’t know why these people think a divided America that hates eachother is a better America than one that is unified but that seems to be the trend. That’s what Trumpism is all about

big difference between the republicans planning a partisan, and political fight to make obama a one termer,


and your side refusing to respect the peaceful transfer of power.


that you blame others, for your behavior, is understandable. if i was you, i would not want to be held accountable for the shit your side has done either.

What’s been my behavior? What have I done specifically to challenge the transfer of power? Come on now, you accused me, now back it up. Show examples

you're identifying with your side. thank you for not denying it.


as to your personals actions in support of it, i can guess. probably a shit ton of pushing the narrative and carrying water for certain important lies.

You just said a whole lot of nothing. LMK when you’re ready to talk about real stuff. I have no interest in these generic labels and stereotypes. They are a waste of time

i made a comment about your side's behavior and you self identified with it.

that was your call. as to your personal contribution, you can share that with us, if you want. or not.

That’s all I do here is share my perspective. You ignore the specific to try and attack “my side” the imaginary left. It’s called a strawman argument and it is a weak minded tactic used by those who can’t deal with specifics. You seem like a relatively smart person. Do better.

you blamed trump for something that was actually the fault of teh group, "the left".

your dislike of discussing groups or using such labels, is common with liberals.


my point stands. trump is not responsible for the hysterical reaction from your side, to his election.

Trump attacked the media by calling them fake news and the enemy of the people so he faces a more hostile media than any other president. Yes that is provoked outcome. ....

the media have been growing increasingly partisan and lefty for decades.

that hillary's loss and trump's win, drove them over the edge, is not trump's fault.


calling them fake news and the enemy of the people, is a reasonable response to their behavior.


remember the way they just flat out lied about what he said at charlottesville? that was unforgivable.

The animosity against Trump is Absolutely his fault. He was on every show during the campaign, got a priceless amount of free airtime. It wasn’t u til he started his fake news campaign that the media turned on him. I don’t really blame them. When the most powerful man in the world is lying to the public I understand the urge to want to call him on it. That’s what’s been happening.

you're kidding yourself. the media was completely partisan whores during the obama years, before trump was a factor.


immediately after the glory of hte first black president, they bought into the glory of the first woman president.


they thought that the next republican president had not yet been born.


they were offended that trump was speaking out for working class white men. that alone was enough to piss them off.

Well gee, look at how Obama spoke to and treated the media. I don’t know how you were raised but typically relationships are build off of trust and respect. When Trump lies and disrespects all who challenge him then he is going to foster contentious relationships. You are ignorantly pushing all the blame onto Trumps opponents and not recognizing the primary cause... Trump

i was just looking at the day after he announced to see what the media was saying, day one.


everything it seems is behind a pay wall, but the headlines, the bits i could see,


do not look like there were starting out objective and balanced....

Of course not. There had been a steady decline through the campaign as Trump got more and more aggressive and dishonest. The more the media called him on the more he attacked the media. It’s his default reaction.

Trump lies, media calls him on the lie, trump calls the media fake news. Thats the formula. You do see this dont you?

except if that was the way it went, the stories from the day after he announced, would have been neutral.


they were not. they were already hostile. even before he said or did anything.

Why would they be neutral? I just explained how the relationship between Trump and the media had been eroding throughout the campaign. Why would an election erase all of that?

i'm talking about the day immediately after his announcement he was running. it would have been day one of his campaign.

You mean after the escalator speech when he said Mexico is sending us rapists and murders? You think he got unfair coverage?

you made the claim that the unfair coverage was a result of trump's behavior over time.


day one, that excuse does not fly.

I don’t think anybody deserves unfair coverage so if that’s how you’re characterizing my statement then you are mistaken. There have been false stories and distorted statements made which is inexcusable. But the vast majority of the coverage on Trump has been centered around fact checking his false statements. Critical coverage is not fake news.

1. thank you for admitting that there have been false stories and distorted statements.

2. claiming the president said nazis were "Good people" is one story. calling the president on the size of a crowd and the size of his bank account, is two stories. but the nazi lie is far more important. the media is waging a War on Trump and their behavior is inexcusable.

The good people on both sides statement could have been clarified in 5 seconds. Trump didn’t do that for a reason. I agree that he was talking about protestors and not Nazis and that situation was politicized by the left. But Trump is guilty of that kind of crap on a daily basis. I’d argue with anybody on the Left pushing False claims and I sure as hell judge and push back on Trump when he does that crap. Not make excuses for him because he is “punching back”... that’s the most childish excuse there is

the "good people" statement was clear as hell from the start. and it was clarified many times, by many people. the left as a whole, is generally just lying about it, to this day.


that is an incredibly vile lie, setting large percentages of the population at each other's throats.


if that was the only lie the press told about trump, it would still outweigh the rest of the "Fact checking", as proof of a War Against Trump, by the media.


and it is far from the only one.


trumpism, if defined as a political faction or movement, would/will be nearly completely traditional and healthy, and only a controversial because the left, as a whole, gets hysterical when seriously challenged.

 

[Correll]

It is pretty clear the left got very comfortable with having no strong opposition.

i think that is really it. even when republicans won, they never really stood up to the left on cultural issues or challenged their right to control the narrative.


trump did. he was not afraid. very impressive. and totally shocking to the left.

What exactly is it about a “strong opposition” that you think is a good thing for Americans?

well, i didn't say for "americans" but for " the left" and i made no comment on whether it was a good thing for them or not, just that they were unable to deal with it.

Well then make the statement now... do you think that “strong opposition” is a good thing for Americans or not?

i think it depends, on what the opposition is about, how it is waged and what is going on.

there is nothing inherent in the structure of our society that requires it. a time of unity and conformity could be just as "good thing for America" as a time of intense debate and constructive debate.


my point though, was about the left's inability to deal with having strong opposition and their hysterical reaction to it.


they are acting like children, having a violent tantrum.

I agree the Dems are not handling themselves in a respectable way. I’d vote most of them out of office if I could. Trump is at a whole different level though and I dont think he inspires constructive debate. I see him propagating lies and engaging in childish banter and name calling.

he is the first one to seem to be able to withstand the politics of destruction that the left has perfected.


that alone makes him invaluable.


constructive debate? i disagree. the choice today seems to be between people that want to lecture americans like we are dim witted children, and trump who is saying no.


trump is the one in the right, there.

 

[dblack]

Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman.

Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism.

Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government".

Yeah. That's about it.

Are you sure it’s not just a fed up and retaliatory Right that has been given a label by ‘paranoid’ Leftists in an attempt to shut them back up?

There are many on the right, conservatives that are very much against Trump. His method of governing is toxic and people of all ideologies can recognize that.

his enemies are in open insurrection in the streets. that is "toxic" and "divisive".

if you consider trump the bad guy right now, you are the problem, not him.

I agree that many of Trump opponents are engaging in dishonest and unacceptable behavior. But if you don’t think Trump is neck deep in that crap then you are blind. I know the tactic is accuse the accusers instead of taking responsibility but you’re not fooling anybody with that tactic

the resist call went out before trump took office. before trump took office, federal agents were lying to judges to get warrants against him.


mayors are ordering the cops to stand down, so rioters can rule the streets and terrorize law abiding citizens.

innocent citizens are being arrested for defending themselves against violent mobs.


TRump is not the problem. the problem is that a significant portion of the left, is no longer respecting the peaceful transfer of power.

That’s a very skewed and dishonest representation of history you’re presenting there. Some of those points we’ve debated in the past. Sounds like you’re dug in on that narrative but that’s just not how I see it. I guess that’s just how it is during these divided times

teh resist call went out, almost immediately after the election.


that is not me being "dishonest", that is the truth.

TRump is not the problem. the problem is that a significant portion of the left, is no longer respecting the peaceful transfer of power.

Yes a call went out as soon as Trump was elected just as a call went out to stop Obama right after he was elected and just as the wings of every party activate to challenge the opposition when they gain power. But Trump owns the intensity of this battle and has fueled both his resistance and his followers with his rhetoric and method of attack. Smart leaders don’t give attention to the noise makers and they focus on the important things. As you can see clearly in this board, the conversation has devolved to grade school levels. The partisan haters who love to attack are emboldened and they love Trump because he propagates these type of fights. I don’t know why these people think a divided America that hates eachother is a better America than one that is unified but that seems to be the trend. That’s what Trumpism is all about

big difference between the republicans planning a partisan, and political fight to make obama a one termer,


and your side refusing to respect the peaceful transfer of power.


that you blame others, for your behavior, is understandable. if i was you, i would not want to be held accountable for the shit your side has done either.

What’s been my behavior? What have I done specifically to challenge the transfer of power? Come on now, you accused me, now back it up. Show examples

you're identifying with your side. thank you for not denying it.


as to your personals actions in support of it, i can guess. probably a shit ton of pushing the narrative and carrying water for certain important lies.

You just said a whole lot of nothing. LMK when you’re ready to talk about real stuff. I have no interest in these generic labels and stereotypes. They are a waste of time

i made a comment about your side's behavior and you self identified with it.

that was your call. as to your personal contribution, you can share that with us, if you want. or not.

That’s all I do here is share my perspective. You ignore the specific to try and attack “my side” the imaginary left. It’s called a strawman argument and it is a weak minded tactic used by those who can’t deal with specifics. You seem like a relatively smart person. Do better.

you blamed trump for something that was actually the fault of teh group, "the left".

your dislike of discussing groups or using such labels, is common with liberals.


my point stands. trump is not responsible for the hysterical reaction from your side, to his election.

Trump attacked the media by calling them fake news and the enemy of the people so he faces a more hostile media than any other president. Yes that is provoked outcome. ....

the media have been growing increasingly partisan and lefty for decades.

that hillary's loss and trump's win, drove them over the edge, is not trump's fault.


calling them fake news and the enemy of the people, is a reasonable response to their behavior.


remember the way they just flat out lied about what he said at charlottesville? that was unforgivable.

The animosity against Trump is Absolutely his fault. He was on every show during the campaign, got a priceless amount of free airtime. It wasn’t u til he started his fake news campaign that the media turned on him. I don’t really blame them. When the most powerful man in the world is lying to the public I understand the urge to want to call him on it. That’s what’s been happening.

you're kidding yourself. the media was completely partisan whores during the obama years, before trump was a factor.


immediately after the glory of hte first black president, they bought into the glory of the first woman president.


they thought that the next republican president had not yet been born.


they were offended that trump was speaking out for working class white men. that alone was enough to piss them off.

Well gee, look at how Obama spoke to and treated the media. I don’t know how you were raised but typically relationships are build off of trust and respect. When Trump lies and disrespects all who challenge him then he is going to foster contentious relationships. You are ignorantly pushing all the blame onto Trumps opponents and not recognizing the primary cause... Trump

i was just looking at the day after he announced to see what the media was saying, day one.


everything it seems is behind a pay wall, but the headlines, the bits i could see,


do not look like there were starting out objective and balanced....

Of course not. There had been a steady decline through the campaign as Trump got more and more aggressive and dishonest. The more the media called him on the more he attacked the media. It’s his default reaction.

Trump lies, media calls him on the lie, trump calls the media fake news. Thats the formula. You do see this dont you?

except if that was the way it went, the stories from the day after he announced, would have been neutral.


they were not. they were already hostile. even before he said or did anything.

Why would they be neutral? I just explained how the relationship between Trump and the media had been eroding throughout the campaign. Why would an election erase all of that?

i'm talking about the day immediately after his announcement he was running. it would have been day one of his campaign.

You mean after the escalator speech when he said Mexico is sending us rapists and murders? You think he got unfair coverage?

you made the claim that the unfair coverage was a result of trump's behavior over time.


day one, that excuse does not fly.

I don’t think anybody deserves unfair coverage so if that’s how you’re characterizing my statement then you are mistaken. There have been false stories and distorted statements made which is inexcusable. But the vast majority of the coverage on Trump has been centered around fact checking his false statements. Critical coverage is not fake news.

1. thank you for admitting that there have been false stories and distorted statements.

2. claiming the president said nazis were "Good people" is one story. calling the president on the size of a crowd and the size of his bank account, is two stories. but the nazi lie is far more important. the media is waging a War on Trump and their behavior is inexcusable.

The good people on both sides statement could have been clarified in 5 seconds. Trump didn’t do that for a reason. I agree that he was talking about protestors and not Nazis and that situation was politicized by the left. But Trump is guilty of that kind of crap on a daily basis. I’d argue with anybody on the Left pushing False claims and I sure as hell judge and push back on Trump when he does that crap. Not make excuses for him because he is “punching back”... that’s the most childish excuse there is

So, I think this is the one things I actually understand about Trump's appeal - (some) people actually like the fact he doesn't play these kinds of games. I don't know if it's because he's tone deaf, or just not self-aware at all, or if he just enjoys trolling, but he doesn't play by their PC rules.

I'd like to think he's genuinely above that kind of nonsense, and I suppose that's what Trump supporters tell themselves, but I see no indication that this is actually the case. Near as I can tell, his behavior (the bragging, the habitual lying and exaggerating, the constant "salesman mode", the stubbornly doubling down on his errors) is instinctual - ingrained habits accrued from a lifetime of hustling - and not a deliberate strategy.

 

[Slade3200]

Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman.

Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism.

Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government".

Yeah. That's about it.

Are you sure it’s not just a fed up and retaliatory Right that has been given a label by ‘paranoid’ Leftists in an attempt to shut them back up?

There are many on the right, conservatives that are very much against Trump. His method of governing is toxic and people of all ideologies can recognize that.

his enemies are in open insurrection in the streets. that is "toxic" and "divisive".

if you consider trump the bad guy right now, you are the problem, not him.

I agree that many of Trump opponents are engaging in dishonest and unacceptable behavior. But if you don’t think Trump is neck deep in that crap then you are blind. I know the tactic is accuse the accusers instead of taking responsibility but you’re not fooling anybody with that tactic

the resist call went out before trump took office. before trump took office, federal agents were lying to judges to get warrants against him.


mayors are ordering the cops to stand down, so rioters can rule the streets and terrorize law abiding citizens.

innocent citizens are being arrested for defending themselves against violent mobs.


TRump is not the problem. the problem is that a significant portion of the left, is no longer respecting the peaceful transfer of power.

That’s a very skewed and dishonest representation of history you’re presenting there. Some of those points we’ve debated in the past. Sounds like you’re dug in on that narrative but that’s just not how I see it. I guess that’s just how it is during these divided times

teh resist call went out, almost immediately after the election.


that is not me being "dishonest", that is the truth.

TRump is not the problem. the problem is that a significant portion of the left, is no longer respecting the peaceful transfer of power.

Yes a call went out as soon as Trump was elected just as a call went out to stop Obama right after he was elected and just as the wings of every party activate to challenge the opposition when they gain power. But Trump owns the intensity of this battle and has fueled both his resistance and his followers with his rhetoric and method of attack. Smart leaders don’t give attention to the noise makers and they focus on the important things. As you can see clearly in this board, the conversation has devolved to grade school levels. The partisan haters who love to attack are emboldened and they love Trump because he propagates these type of fights. I don’t know why these people think a divided America that hates eachother is a better America than one that is unified but that seems to be the trend. That’s what Trumpism is all about

big difference between the republicans planning a partisan, and political fight to make obama a one termer,


and your side refusing to respect the peaceful transfer of power.


that you blame others, for your behavior, is understandable. if i was you, i would not want to be held accountable for the shit your side has done either.

What’s been my behavior? What have I done specifically to challenge the transfer of power? Come on now, you accused me, now back it up. Show examples

you're identifying with your side. thank you for not denying it.


as to your personals actions in support of it, i can guess. probably a shit ton of pushing the narrative and carrying water for certain important lies.

You just said a whole lot of nothing. LMK when you’re ready to talk about real stuff. I have no interest in these generic labels and stereotypes. They are a waste of time

i made a comment about your side's behavior and you self identified with it.

that was your call. as to your personal contribution, you can share that with us, if you want. or not.

That’s all I do here is share my perspective. You ignore the specific to try and attack “my side” the imaginary left. It’s called a strawman argument and it is a weak minded tactic used by those who can’t deal with specifics. You seem like a relatively smart person. Do better.

you blamed trump for something that was actually the fault of teh group, "the left".

your dislike of discussing groups or using such labels, is common with liberals.


my point stands. trump is not responsible for the hysterical reaction from your side, to his election.

Trump attacked the media by calling them fake news and the enemy of the people so he faces a more hostile media than any other president. Yes that is provoked outcome. ....

the media have been growing increasingly partisan and lefty for decades.

that hillary's loss and trump's win, drove them over the edge, is not trump's fault.


calling them fake news and the enemy of the people, is a reasonable response to their behavior.


remember the way they just flat out lied about what he said at charlottesville? that was unforgivable.

The animosity against Trump is Absolutely his fault. He was on every show during the campaign, got a priceless amount of free airtime. It wasn’t u til he started his fake news campaign that the media turned on him. I don’t really blame them. When the most powerful man in the world is lying to the public I understand the urge to want to call him on it. That’s what’s been happening.

you're kidding yourself. the media was completely partisan whores during the obama years, before trump was a factor.


immediately after the glory of hte first black president, they bought into the glory of the first woman president.


they thought that the next republican president had not yet been born.


they were offended that trump was speaking out for working class white men. that alone was enough to piss them off.

Well gee, look at how Obama spoke to and treated the media. I don’t know how you were raised but typically relationships are build off of trust and respect. When Trump lies and disrespects all who challenge him then he is going to foster contentious relationships. You are ignorantly pushing all the blame onto Trumps opponents and not recognizing the primary cause... Trump

i was just looking at the day after he announced to see what the media was saying, day one.


everything it seems is behind a pay wall, but the headlines, the bits i could see,


do not look like there were starting out objective and balanced....

Of course not. There had been a steady decline through the campaign as Trump got more and more aggressive and dishonest. The more the media called him on the more he attacked the media. It’s his default reaction.

Trump lies, media calls him on the lie, trump calls the media fake news. Thats the formula. You do see this dont you?

except if that was the way it went, the stories from the day after he announced, would have been neutral.


they were not. they were already hostile. even before he said or did anything.

Why would they be neutral? I just explained how the relationship between Trump and the media had been eroding throughout the campaign. Why would an election erase all of that?

i'm talking about the day immediately after his announcement he was running. it would have been day one of his campaign.

You mean after the escalator speech when he said Mexico is sending us rapists and murders? You think he got unfair coverage?

you made the claim that the unfair coverage was a result of trump's behavior over time.


day one, that excuse does not fly.

I don’t think anybody deserves unfair coverage so if that’s how you’re characterizing my statement then you are mistaken. There have been false stories and distorted statements made which is inexcusable. But the vast majority of the coverage on Trump has been centered around fact checking his false statements. Critical coverage is not fake news.

1. thank you for admitting that there have been false stories and distorted statements.

2. claiming the president said nazis were "Good people" is one story. calling the president on the size of a crowd and the size of his bank account, is two stories. but the nazi lie is far more important. the media is waging a War on Trump and their behavior is inexcusable.

The good people on both sides statement could have been clarified in 5 seconds. Trump didn’t do that for a reason. I agree that he was talking about protestors and not Nazis and that situation was politicized by the left. But Trump is guilty of that kind of crap on a daily basis. I’d argue with anybody on the Left pushing False claims and I sure as hell judge and push back on Trump when he does that crap. Not make excuses for him because he is “punching back”... that’s the most childish excuse there is

the "good people" statement was clear as hell from the start. and it was clarified many times, by many people. the left as a whole, is generally just lying about it, to this day.


that is an incredibly vile lie, setting large percentages of the population at each other's throats.


if that was the only lie the press told about trump, it would still outweigh the rest of the "Fact checking", as proof of a War Against Trump, by the media.


and it is far from the only one.


trumpism, if defined as a political faction or movement, would/will be nearly completely traditional and healthy, and only a controversial because the left, as a whole, gets hysterical when seriously challenged.

I’m sorry but no it was not clear as hell. I kid was killed by a racist that was there with a Nazi group. Trump bringing up the both sides thing was an attempt to attack the left during a time that the message should be simple and clear and against the racist movement and murder that happened. The dishonesty around reporting that Trump called Nazis good people is not excusable. But don’t pretend that Trump wasn’t stirring the pot with that message which certainly was not clear. His games are not transparent so don’t play dumb we all can see what he is doing.

 

[Slade3200]

It is pretty clear the left got very comfortable with having no strong opposition.

i think that is really it. even when republicans won, they never really stood up to the left on cultural issues or challenged their right to control the narrative.


trump did. he was not afraid. very impressive. and totally shocking to the left.

What exactly is it about a “strong opposition” that you think is a good thing for Americans?

well, i didn't say for "americans" but for " the left" and i made no comment on whether it was a good thing for them or not, just that they were unable to deal with it.

Well then make the statement now... do you think that “strong opposition” is a good thing for Americans or not?

i think it depends, on what the opposition is about, how it is waged and what is going on.

there is nothing inherent in the structure of our society that requires it. a time of unity and conformity could be just as "good thing for America" as a time of intense debate and constructive debate.


my point though, was about the left's inability to deal with having strong opposition and their hysterical reaction to it.


they are acting like children, having a violent tantrum.

I agree the Dems are not handling themselves in a respectable way. I’d vote most of them out of office if I could. Trump is at a whole different level though and I dont think he inspires constructive debate. I see him propagating lies and engaging in childish banter and name calling.

he is the first one to seem to be able to withstand the politics of destruction that the left has perfected.


that alone makes him invaluable.


constructive debate? i disagree. the choice today seems to be between people that want to lecture americans like we are dim witted children, and trump who is saying no.


trump is the one in the right, there.

If you don’t want to be treated as a dimwit then don’t act that way. Acting oblivious to the lies and games that Trump plays makes you seem dimwitted. Sorry but it’s true.

 

[Slade3200]

Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman.

Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism.

Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government".

Yeah. That's about it.

Are you sure it’s not just a fed up and retaliatory Right that has been given a label by ‘paranoid’ Leftists in an attempt to shut them back up?

There are many on the right, conservatives that are very much against Trump. His method of governing is toxic and people of all ideologies can recognize that.

his enemies are in open insurrection in the streets. that is "toxic" and "divisive".

if you consider trump the bad guy right now, you are the problem, not him.

I agree that many of Trump opponents are engaging in dishonest and unacceptable behavior. But if you don’t think Trump is neck deep in that crap then you are blind. I know the tactic is accuse the accusers instead of taking responsibility but you’re not fooling anybody with that tactic

the resist call went out before trump took office. before trump took office, federal agents were lying to judges to get warrants against him.


mayors are ordering the cops to stand down, so rioters can rule the streets and terrorize law abiding citizens.

innocent citizens are being arrested for defending themselves against violent mobs.


TRump is not the problem. the problem is that a significant portion of the left, is no longer respecting the peaceful transfer of power.

That’s a very skewed and dishonest representation of history you’re presenting there. Some of those points we’ve debated in the past. Sounds like you’re dug in on that narrative but that’s just not how I see it. I guess that’s just how it is during these divided times

teh resist call went out, almost immediately after the election.


that is not me being "dishonest", that is the truth.

TRump is not the problem. the problem is that a significant portion of the left, is no longer respecting the peaceful transfer of power.

Yes a call went out as soon as Trump was elected just as a call went out to stop Obama right after he was elected and just as the wings of every party activate to challenge the opposition when they gain power. But Trump owns the intensity of this battle and has fueled both his resistance and his followers with his rhetoric and method of attack. Smart leaders don’t give attention to the noise makers and they focus on the important things. As you can see clearly in this board, the conversation has devolved to grade school levels. The partisan haters who love to attack are emboldened and they love Trump because he propagates these type of fights. I don’t know why these people think a divided America that hates eachother is a better America than one that is unified but that seems to be the trend. That’s what Trumpism is all about

big difference between the republicans planning a partisan, and political fight to make obama a one termer,


and your side refusing to respect the peaceful transfer of power.


that you blame others, for your behavior, is understandable. if i was you, i would not want to be held accountable for the shit your side has done either.

What’s been my behavior? What have I done specifically to challenge the transfer of power? Come on now, you accused me, now back it up. Show examples

you're identifying with your side. thank you for not denying it.


as to your personals actions in support of it, i can guess. probably a shit ton of pushing the narrative and carrying water for certain important lies.

You just said a whole lot of nothing. LMK when you’re ready to talk about real stuff. I have no interest in these generic labels and stereotypes. They are a waste of time

i made a comment about your side's behavior and you self identified with it.

that was your call. as to your personal contribution, you can share that with us, if you want. or not.

That’s all I do here is share my perspective. You ignore the specific to try and attack “my side” the imaginary left. It’s called a strawman argument and it is a weak minded tactic used by those who can’t deal with specifics. You seem like a relatively smart person. Do better.

you blamed trump for something that was actually the fault of teh group, "the left".

your dislike of discussing groups or using such labels, is common with liberals.


my point stands. trump is not responsible for the hysterical reaction from your side, to his election.

Trump attacked the media by calling them fake news and the enemy of the people so he faces a more hostile media than any other president. Yes that is provoked outcome. ....

the media have been growing increasingly partisan and lefty for decades.

that hillary's loss and trump's win, drove them over the edge, is not trump's fault.


calling them fake news and the enemy of the people, is a reasonable response to their behavior.


remember the way they just flat out lied about what he said at charlottesville? that was unforgivable.

The animosity against Trump is Absolutely his fault. He was on every show during the campaign, got a priceless amount of free airtime. It wasn’t u til he started his fake news campaign that the media turned on him. I don’t really blame them. When the most powerful man in the world is lying to the public I understand the urge to want to call him on it. That’s what’s been happening.

you're kidding yourself. the media was completely partisan whores during the obama years, before trump was a factor.


immediately after the glory of hte first black president, they bought into the glory of the first woman president.


they thought that the next republican president had not yet been born.


they were offended that trump was speaking out for working class white men. that alone was enough to piss them off.

Well gee, look at how Obama spoke to and treated the media. I don’t know how you were raised but typically relationships are build off of trust and respect. When Trump lies and disrespects all who challenge him then he is going to foster contentious relationships. You are ignorantly pushing all the blame onto Trumps opponents and not recognizing the primary cause... Trump

i was just looking at the day after he announced to see what the media was saying, day one.


everything it seems is behind a pay wall, but the headlines, the bits i could see,


do not look like there were starting out objective and balanced....

Of course not. There had been a steady decline through the campaign as Trump got more and more aggressive and dishonest. The more the media called him on the more he attacked the media. It’s his default reaction.

Trump lies, media calls him on the lie, trump calls the media fake news. Thats the formula. You do see this dont you?

except if that was the way it went, the stories from the day after he announced, would have been neutral.


they were not. they were already hostile. even before he said or did anything.

Why would they be neutral? I just explained how the relationship between Trump and the media had been eroding throughout the campaign. Why would an election erase all of that?

i'm talking about the day immediately after his announcement he was running. it would have been day one of his campaign.

You mean after the escalator speech when he said Mexico is sending us rapists and murders? You think he got unfair coverage?

you made the claim that the unfair coverage was a result of trump's behavior over time.


day one, that excuse does not fly.

I don’t think anybody deserves unfair coverage so if that’s how you’re characterizing my statement then you are mistaken. There have been false stories and distorted statements made which is inexcusable. But the vast majority of the coverage on Trump has been centered around fact checking his false statements. Critical coverage is not fake news.

1. thank you for admitting that there have been false stories and distorted statements.

2. claiming the president said nazis were "Good people" is one story. calling the president on the size of a crowd and the size of his bank account, is two stories. but the nazi lie is far more important. the media is waging a War on Trump and their behavior is inexcusable.

The good people on both sides statement could have been clarified in 5 seconds. Trump didn’t do that for a reason. I agree that he was talking about protestors and not Nazis and that situation was politicized by the left. But Trump is guilty of that kind of crap on a daily basis. I’d argue with anybody on the Left pushing False claims and I sure as hell judge and push back on Trump when he does that crap. Not make excuses for him because he is “punching back”... that’s the most childish excuse there is

So, I think this is the one things I actually understand about Trump's appeal - (some) people actually like the fact he doesn't play these kinds of games. I don't know if it's because he's tone deaf, or just not self-aware at all, or if he just enjoys trolling, but he doesn't play by their PC rules.

I'd like to think he's genuinely above that kind of nonsense, and I suppose that's what Trump supporters tell themselves, but I see no indication that this is actually the case. Near as I can tell, his behavior (the bragging, the habitual lying and exaggerating, the constant "salesman mode", the stubbornly doubling down on his errors) is instinctual - ingrained habits accrued from a lifetime of hustling - and not a deliberate strategy.

Well said. I agree

 

[Correll]

Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman.

Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism.

Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government".

Yeah. That's about it.

Are you sure it’s not just a fed up and retaliatory Right that has been given a label by ‘paranoid’ Leftists in an attempt to shut them back up?

There are many on the right, conservatives that are very much against Trump. His method of governing is toxic and people of all ideologies can recognize that.

his enemies are in open insurrection in the streets. that is "toxic" and "divisive".

if you consider trump the bad guy right now, you are the problem, not him.

I agree that many of Trump opponents are engaging in dishonest and unacceptable behavior. But if you don’t think Trump is neck deep in that crap then you are blind. I know the tactic is accuse the accusers instead of taking responsibility but you’re not fooling anybody with that tactic

the resist call went out before trump took office. before trump took office, federal agents were lying to judges to get warrants against him.


mayors are ordering the cops to stand down, so rioters can rule the streets and terrorize law abiding citizens.

innocent citizens are being arrested for defending themselves against violent mobs.


TRump is not the problem. the problem is that a significant portion of the left, is no longer respecting the peaceful transfer of power.

That’s a very skewed and dishonest representation of history you’re presenting there. Some of those points we’ve debated in the past. Sounds like you’re dug in on that narrative but that’s just not how I see it. I guess that’s just how it is during these divided times

teh resist call went out, almost immediately after the election.


that is not me being "dishonest", that is the truth.

TRump is not the problem. the problem is that a significant portion of the left, is no longer respecting the peaceful transfer of power.

Yes a call went out as soon as Trump was elected just as a call went out to stop Obama right after he was elected and just as the wings of every party activate to challenge the opposition when they gain power. But Trump owns the intensity of this battle and has fueled both his resistance and his followers with his rhetoric and method of attack. Smart leaders don’t give attention to the noise makers and they focus on the important things. As you can see clearly in this board, the conversation has devolved to grade school levels. The partisan haters who love to attack are emboldened and they love Trump because he propagates these type of fights. I don’t know why these people think a divided America that hates eachother is a better America than one that is unified but that seems to be the trend. That’s what Trumpism is all about

big difference between the republicans planning a partisan, and political fight to make obama a one termer,


and your side refusing to respect the peaceful transfer of power.


that you blame others, for your behavior, is understandable. if i was you, i would not want to be held accountable for the shit your side has done either.

What’s been my behavior? What have I done specifically to challenge the transfer of power? Come on now, you accused me, now back it up. Show examples

you're identifying with your side. thank you for not denying it.


as to your personals actions in support of it, i can guess. probably a shit ton of pushing the narrative and carrying water for certain important lies.

You just said a whole lot of nothing. LMK when you’re ready to talk about real stuff. I have no interest in these generic labels and stereotypes. They are a waste of time

i made a comment about your side's behavior and you self identified with it.

that was your call. as to your personal contribution, you can share that with us, if you want. or not.

That’s all I do here is share my perspective. You ignore the specific to try and attack “my side” the imaginary left. It’s called a strawman argument and it is a weak minded tactic used by those who can’t deal with specifics. You seem like a relatively smart person. Do better.

you blamed trump for something that was actually the fault of teh group, "the left".

your dislike of discussing groups or using such labels, is common with liberals.


my point stands. trump is not responsible for the hysterical reaction from your side, to his election.

Trump attacked the media by calling them fake news and the enemy of the people so he faces a more hostile media than any other president. Yes that is provoked outcome. ....

the media have been growing increasingly partisan and lefty for decades.

that hillary's loss and trump's win, drove them over the edge, is not trump's fault.


calling them fake news and the enemy of the people, is a reasonable response to their behavior.


remember the way they just flat out lied about what he said at charlottesville? that was unforgivable.

The animosity against Trump is Absolutely his fault. He was on every show during the campaign, got a priceless amount of free airtime. It wasn’t u til he started his fake news campaign that the media turned on him. I don’t really blame them. When the most powerful man in the world is lying to the public I understand the urge to want to call him on it. That’s what’s been happening.

you're kidding yourself. the media was completely partisan whores during the obama years, before trump was a factor.


immediately after the glory of hte first black president, they bought into the glory of the first woman president.


they thought that the next republican president had not yet been born.


they were offended that trump was speaking out for working class white men. that alone was enough to piss them off.

Well gee, look at how Obama spoke to and treated the media. I don’t know how you were raised but typically relationships are build off of trust and respect. When Trump lies and disrespects all who challenge him then he is going to foster contentious relationships. You are ignorantly pushing all the blame onto Trumps opponents and not recognizing the primary cause... Trump

i was just looking at the day after he announced to see what the media was saying, day one.


everything it seems is behind a pay wall, but the headlines, the bits i could see,


do not look like there were starting out objective and balanced....

Of course not. There had been a steady decline through the campaign as Trump got more and more aggressive and dishonest. The more the media called him on the more he attacked the media. It’s his default reaction.

Trump lies, media calls him on the lie, trump calls the media fake news. Thats the formula. You do see this dont you?

except if that was the way it went, the stories from the day after he announced, would have been neutral.


they were not. they were already hostile. even before he said or did anything.

Why would they be neutral? I just explained how the relationship between Trump and the media had been eroding throughout the campaign. Why would an election erase all of that?

i'm talking about the day immediately after his announcement he was running. it would have been day one of his campaign.

You mean after the escalator speech when he said Mexico is sending us rapists and murders? You think he got unfair coverage?

you made the claim that the unfair coverage was a result of trump's behavior over time.


day one, that excuse does not fly.

I don’t think anybody deserves unfair coverage so if that’s how you’re characterizing my statement then you are mistaken. There have been false stories and distorted statements made which is inexcusable. But the vast majority of the coverage on Trump has been centered around fact checking his false statements. Critical coverage is not fake news.

1. thank you for admitting that there have been false stories and distorted statements.

2. claiming the president said nazis were "Good people" is one story. calling the president on the size of a crowd and the size of his bank account, is two stories. but the nazi lie is far more important. the media is waging a War on Trump and their behavior is inexcusable.

The good people on both sides statement could have been clarified in 5 seconds. Trump didn’t do that for a reason. I agree that he was talking about protestors and not Nazis and that situation was politicized by the left. But Trump is guilty of that kind of crap on a daily basis. I’d argue with anybody on the Left pushing False claims and I sure as hell judge and push back on Trump when he does that crap. Not make excuses for him because he is “punching back”... that’s the most childish excuse there is

the "good people" statement was clear as hell from the start. and it was clarified many times, by many people. the left as a whole, is generally just lying about it, to this day.


that is an incredibly vile lie, setting large percentages of the population at each other's throats.


if that was the only lie the press told about trump, it would still outweigh the rest of the "Fact checking", as proof of a War Against Trump, by the media.


and it is far from the only one.


trumpism, if defined as a political faction or movement, would/will be nearly completely traditional and healthy, and only a controversial because the left, as a whole, gets hysterical when seriously challenged.

I’m sorry but no it was not clear as hell. I kid was killed by a racist that was there with a Nazi group. Trump bringing up the both sides thing was an attempt to attack the left during a time that the message should be simple and clear and against the racist movement and murder that happened. The dishonesty around reporting that Trump called Nazis good people is not excusable. But don’t pretend that Trump wasn’t stirring the pot with that message which certainly was not clear. His games are not transparent so don’t play dumb we all can see what he is doing.

Trump was clear in his denouncing of the nazis and the violence and the killing of that woman.

the media and the left delivered a false message to America, with their lying.


the media has been waging a War on Trump.


my point about trumpism stands.

trumpism, if defined as a political faction or movement, would/will be nearly completely traditional and healthy, and only a controversial because the left, as a whole, gets hysterical when seriously challenged.

 

[Correll]

It is pretty clear the left got very comfortable with having no strong opposition.

i think that is really it. even when republicans won, they never really stood up to the left on cultural issues or challenged their right to control the narrative.


trump did. he was not afraid. very impressive. and totally shocking to the left.

What exactly is it about a “strong opposition” that you think is a good thing for Americans?

well, i didn't say for "americans" but for " the left" and i made no comment on whether it was a good thing for them or not, just that they were unable to deal with it.

Well then make the statement now... do you think that “strong opposition” is a good thing for Americans or not?

i think it depends, on what the opposition is about, how it is waged and what is going on.

there is nothing inherent in the structure of our society that requires it. a time of unity and conformity could be just as "good thing for America" as a time of intense debate and constructive debate.


my point though, was about the left's inability to deal with having strong opposition and their hysterical reaction to it.


they are acting like children, having a violent tantrum.

I agree the Dems are not handling themselves in a respectable way. I’d vote most of them out of office if I could. Trump is at a whole different level though and I dont think he inspires constructive debate. I see him propagating lies and engaging in childish banter and name calling.

he is the first one to seem to be able to withstand the politics of destruction that the left has perfected.


that alone makes him invaluable.


constructive debate? i disagree. the choice today seems to be between people that want to lecture americans like we are dim witted children, and trump who is saying no.


trump is the one in the right, there.

If you don’t want to be treated as a dimwit then don’t act that way. Acting oblivious to the lies and games that Trump plays makes you seem dimwitted. Sorry but it’s true.

your insult is noted and dismissed.

my point stands, since you failed to even try to address it. you pompous ass.

we cannot have a constructive debate, while lib assholes think that that means that they get to lecture America as a whole, like we are dim witted children.

trump, standing up to that asshole behavior, from your side, is a badly needed step; in the right direction.

 

[Slade3200]

Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman.

Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism.

Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government".

Yeah. That's about it.

Are you sure it’s not just a fed up and retaliatory Right that has been given a label by ‘paranoid’ Leftists in an attempt to shut them back up?

There are many on the right, conservatives that are very much against Trump. His method of governing is toxic and people of all ideologies can recognize that.

his enemies are in open insurrection in the streets. that is "toxic" and "divisive".

if you consider trump the bad guy right now, you are the problem, not him.

I agree that many of Trump opponents are engaging in dishonest and unacceptable behavior. But if you don’t think Trump is neck deep in that crap then you are blind. I know the tactic is accuse the accusers instead of taking responsibility but you’re not fooling anybody with that tactic

the resist call went out before trump took office. before trump took office, federal agents were lying to judges to get warrants against him.


mayors are ordering the cops to stand down, so rioters can rule the streets and terrorize law abiding citizens.

innocent citizens are being arrested for defending themselves against violent mobs.


TRump is not the problem. the problem is that a significant portion of the left, is no longer respecting the peaceful transfer of power.

That’s a very skewed and dishonest representation of history you’re presenting there. Some of those points we’ve debated in the past. Sounds like you’re dug in on that narrative but that’s just not how I see it. I guess that’s just how it is during these divided times

teh resist call went out, almost immediately after the election.


that is not me being "dishonest", that is the truth.

TRump is not the problem. the problem is that a significant portion of the left, is no longer respecting the peaceful transfer of power.

Yes a call went out as soon as Trump was elected just as a call went out to stop Obama right after he was elected and just as the wings of every party activate to challenge the opposition when they gain power. But Trump owns the intensity of this battle and has fueled both his resistance and his followers with his rhetoric and method of attack. Smart leaders don’t give attention to the noise makers and they focus on the important things. As you can see clearly in this board, the conversation has devolved to grade school levels. The partisan haters who love to attack are emboldened and they love Trump because he propagates these type of fights. I don’t know why these people think a divided America that hates eachother is a better America than one that is unified but that seems to be the trend. That’s what Trumpism is all about

big difference between the republicans planning a partisan, and political fight to make obama a one termer,


and your side refusing to respect the peaceful transfer of power.


that you blame others, for your behavior, is understandable. if i was you, i would not want to be held accountable for the shit your side has done either.

What’s been my behavior? What have I done specifically to challenge the transfer of power? Come on now, you accused me, now back it up. Show examples

you're identifying with your side. thank you for not denying it.


as to your personals actions in support of it, i can guess. probably a shit ton of pushing the narrative and carrying water for certain important lies.

You just said a whole lot of nothing. LMK when you’re ready to talk about real stuff. I have no interest in these generic labels and stereotypes. They are a waste of time

i made a comment about your side's behavior and you self identified with it.

that was your call. as to your personal contribution, you can share that with us, if you want. or not.

That’s all I do here is share my perspective. You ignore the specific to try and attack “my side” the imaginary left. It’s called a strawman argument and it is a weak minded tactic used by those who can’t deal with specifics. You seem like a relatively smart person. Do better.

you blamed trump for something that was actually the fault of teh group, "the left".

your dislike of discussing groups or using such labels, is common with liberals.


my point stands. trump is not responsible for the hysterical reaction from your side, to his election.

Trump attacked the media by calling them fake news and the enemy of the people so he faces a more hostile media than any other president. Yes that is provoked outcome. ....

the media have been growing increasingly partisan and lefty for decades.

that hillary's loss and trump's win, drove them over the edge, is not trump's fault.


calling them fake news and the enemy of the people, is a reasonable response to their behavior.


remember the way they just flat out lied about what he said at charlottesville? that was unforgivable.

The animosity against Trump is Absolutely his fault. He was on every show during the campaign, got a priceless amount of free airtime. It wasn’t u til he started his fake news campaign that the media turned on him. I don’t really blame them. When the most powerful man in the world is lying to the public I understand the urge to want to call him on it. That’s what’s been happening.

you're kidding yourself. the media was completely partisan whores during the obama years, before trump was a factor.


immediately after the glory of hte first black president, they bought into the glory of the first woman president.


they thought that the next republican president had not yet been born.


they were offended that trump was speaking out for working class white men. that alone was enough to piss them off.

Well gee, look at how Obama spoke to and treated the media. I don’t know how you were raised but typically relationships are build off of trust and respect. When Trump lies and disrespects all who challenge him then he is going to foster contentious relationships. You are ignorantly pushing all the blame onto Trumps opponents and not recognizing the primary cause... Trump

i was just looking at the day after he announced to see what the media was saying, day one.


everything it seems is behind a pay wall, but the headlines, the bits i could see,


do not look like there were starting out objective and balanced....

Of course not. There had been a steady decline through the campaign as Trump got more and more aggressive and dishonest. The more the media called him on the more he attacked the media. It’s his default reaction.

Trump lies, media calls him on the lie, trump calls the media fake news. Thats the formula. You do see this dont you?

except if that was the way it went, the stories from the day after he announced, would have been neutral.


they were not. they were already hostile. even before he said or did anything.

Why would they be neutral? I just explained how the relationship between Trump and the media had been eroding throughout the campaign. Why would an election erase all of that?

i'm talking about the day immediately after his announcement he was running. it would have been day one of his campaign.

You mean after the escalator speech when he said Mexico is sending us rapists and murders? You think he got unfair coverage?

you made the claim that the unfair coverage was a result of trump's behavior over time.


day one, that excuse does not fly.

I don’t think anybody deserves unfair coverage so if that’s how you’re characterizing my statement then you are mistaken. There have been false stories and distorted statements made which is inexcusable. But the vast majority of the coverage on Trump has been centered around fact checking his false statements. Critical coverage is not fake news.

1. thank you for admitting that there have been false stories and distorted statements.

2. claiming the president said nazis were "Good people" is one story. calling the president on the size of a crowd and the size of his bank account, is two stories. but the nazi lie is far more important. the media is waging a War on Trump and their behavior is inexcusable.

The good people on both sides statement could have been clarified in 5 seconds. Trump didn’t do that for a reason. I agree that he was talking about protestors and not Nazis and that situation was politicized by the left. But Trump is guilty of that kind of crap on a daily basis. I’d argue with anybody on the Left pushing False claims and I sure as hell judge and push back on Trump when he does that crap. Not make excuses for him because he is “punching back”... that’s the most childish excuse there is

the "good people" statement was clear as hell from the start. and it was clarified many times, by many people. the left as a whole, is generally just lying about it, to this day.


that is an incredibly vile lie, setting large percentages of the population at each other's throats.


if that was the only lie the press told about trump, it would still outweigh the rest of the "Fact checking", as proof of a War Against Trump, by the media.


and it is far from the only one.


trumpism, if defined as a political faction or movement, would/will be nearly completely traditional and healthy, and only a controversial because the left, as a whole, gets hysterical when seriously challenged.

I’m sorry but no it was not clear as hell. I kid was killed by a racist that was there with a Nazi group. Trump bringing up the both sides thing was an attempt to attack the left during a time that the message should be simple and clear and against the racist movement and murder that happened. The dishonesty around reporting that Trump called Nazis good people is not excusable. But don’t pretend that Trump wasn’t stirring the pot with that message which certainly was not clear. His games are not transparent so don’t play dumb we all can see what he is doing.

Trump was clear in his denouncing of the nazis and the violence and the killing of that woman.

the media and the left delivered a false message to America, with their lying.


the media has been waging a War on Trump.


my point about trumpism stands.

trumpism, if defined as a political faction or movement, would/will be nearly completely traditional and healthy, and only a controversial because the left, as a whole, gets hysterical when seriously challenged.

Your definition is BS. I love being challenged. That’s the best time to solidly your positions and learn new things.

Trump gave a weak denouncement and then moved straight to an attack on the left. Some people read into that and took liberty by defining afalse narrative. As I said, it is inexcusable. Trump does it on the daily And it’s just as wrong. Too bad you can’t admit to that

 

[Correll]

Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman.

Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism.

Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government".

Yeah. That's about it.

Are you sure it’s not just a fed up and retaliatory Right that has been given a label by ‘paranoid’ Leftists in an attempt to shut them back up?

There are many on the right, conservatives that are very much against Trump. His method of governing is toxic and people of all ideologies can recognize that.

his enemies are in open insurrection in the streets. that is "toxic" and "divisive".

if you consider trump the bad guy right now, you are the problem, not him.

I agree that many of Trump opponents are engaging in dishonest and unacceptable behavior. But if you don’t think Trump is neck deep in that crap then you are blind. I know the tactic is accuse the accusers instead of taking responsibility but you’re not fooling anybody with that tactic

the resist call went out before trump took office. before trump took office, federal agents were lying to judges to get warrants against him.


mayors are ordering the cops to stand down, so rioters can rule the streets and terrorize law abiding citizens.

innocent citizens are being arrested for defending themselves against violent mobs.


TRump is not the problem. the problem is that a significant portion of the left, is no longer respecting the peaceful transfer of power.

That’s a very skewed and dishonest representation of history you’re presenting there. Some of those points we’ve debated in the past. Sounds like you’re dug in on that narrative but that’s just not how I see it. I guess that’s just how it is during these divided times

teh resist call went out, almost immediately after the election.


that is not me being "dishonest", that is the truth.

TRump is not the problem. the problem is that a significant portion of the left, is no longer respecting the peaceful transfer of power.

Yes a call went out as soon as Trump was elected just as a call went out to stop Obama right after he was elected and just as the wings of every party activate to challenge the opposition when they gain power. But Trump owns the intensity of this battle and has fueled both his resistance and his followers with his rhetoric and method of attack. Smart leaders don’t give attention to the noise makers and they focus on the important things. As you can see clearly in this board, the conversation has devolved to grade school levels. The partisan haters who love to attack are emboldened and they love Trump because he propagates these type of fights. I don’t know why these people think a divided America that hates eachother is a better America than one that is unified but that seems to be the trend. That’s what Trumpism is all about

big difference between the republicans planning a partisan, and political fight to make obama a one termer,


and your side refusing to respect the peaceful transfer of power.


that you blame others, for your behavior, is understandable. if i was you, i would not want to be held accountable for the shit your side has done either.

What’s been my behavior? What have I done specifically to challenge the transfer of power? Come on now, you accused me, now back it up. Show examples

you're identifying with your side. thank you for not denying it.


as to your personals actions in support of it, i can guess. probably a shit ton of pushing the narrative and carrying water for certain important lies.

You just said a whole lot of nothing. LMK when you’re ready to talk about real stuff. I have no interest in these generic labels and stereotypes. They are a waste of time

i made a comment about your side's behavior and you self identified with it.

that was your call. as to your personal contribution, you can share that with us, if you want. or not.

That’s all I do here is share my perspective. You ignore the specific to try and attack “my side” the imaginary left. It’s called a strawman argument and it is a weak minded tactic used by those who can’t deal with specifics. You seem like a relatively smart person. Do better.

you blamed trump for something that was actually the fault of teh group, "the left".

your dislike of discussing groups or using such labels, is common with liberals.


my point stands. trump is not responsible for the hysterical reaction from your side, to his election.

Trump attacked the media by calling them fake news and the enemy of the people so he faces a more hostile media than any other president. Yes that is provoked outcome. ....

the media have been growing increasingly partisan and lefty for decades.

that hillary's loss and trump's win, drove them over the edge, is not trump's fault.


calling them fake news and the enemy of the people, is a reasonable response to their behavior.


remember the way they just flat out lied about what he said at charlottesville? that was unforgivable.

The animosity against Trump is Absolutely his fault. He was on every show during the campaign, got a priceless amount of free airtime. It wasn’t u til he started his fake news campaign that the media turned on him. I don’t really blame them. When the most powerful man in the world is lying to the public I understand the urge to want to call him on it. That’s what’s been happening.

you're kidding yourself. the media was completely partisan whores during the obama years, before trump was a factor.


immediately after the glory of hte first black president, they bought into the glory of the first woman president.


they thought that the next republican president had not yet been born.


they were offended that trump was speaking out for working class white men. that alone was enough to piss them off.

Well gee, look at how Obama spoke to and treated the media. I don’t know how you were raised but typically relationships are build off of trust and respect. When Trump lies and disrespects all who challenge him then he is going to foster contentious relationships. You are ignorantly pushing all the blame onto Trumps opponents and not recognizing the primary cause... Trump

i was just looking at the day after he announced to see what the media was saying, day one.


everything it seems is behind a pay wall, but the headlines, the bits i could see,


do not look like there were starting out objective and balanced....

Of course not. There had been a steady decline through the campaign as Trump got more and more aggressive and dishonest. The more the media called him on the more he attacked the media. It’s his default reaction.

Trump lies, media calls him on the lie, trump calls the media fake news. Thats the formula. You do see this dont you?

except if that was the way it went, the stories from the day after he announced, would have been neutral.


they were not. they were already hostile. even before he said or did anything.

Why would they be neutral? I just explained how the relationship between Trump and the media had been eroding throughout the campaign. Why would an election erase all of that?

i'm talking about the day immediately after his announcement he was running. it would have been day one of his campaign.

You mean after the escalator speech when he said Mexico is sending us rapists and murders? You think he got unfair coverage?

you made the claim that the unfair coverage was a result of trump's behavior over time.


day one, that excuse does not fly.

I don’t think anybody deserves unfair coverage so if that’s how you’re characterizing my statement then you are mistaken. There have been false stories and distorted statements made which is inexcusable. But the vast majority of the coverage on Trump has been centered around fact checking his false statements. Critical coverage is not fake news.

1. thank you for admitting that there have been false stories and distorted statements.

2. claiming the president said nazis were "Good people" is one story. calling the president on the size of a crowd and the size of his bank account, is two stories. but the nazi lie is far more important. the media is waging a War on Trump and their behavior is inexcusable.

The good people on both sides statement could have been clarified in 5 seconds. Trump didn’t do that for a reason. I agree that he was talking about protestors and not Nazis and that situation was politicized by the left. But Trump is guilty of that kind of crap on a daily basis. I’d argue with anybody on the Left pushing False claims and I sure as hell judge and push back on Trump when he does that crap. Not make excuses for him because he is “punching back”... that’s the most childish excuse there is

the "good people" statement was clear as hell from the start. and it was clarified many times, by many people. the left as a whole, is generally just lying about it, to this day.


that is an incredibly vile lie, setting large percentages of the population at each other's throats.


if that was the only lie the press told about trump, it would still outweigh the rest of the "Fact checking", as proof of a War Against Trump, by the media.


and it is far from the only one.


trumpism, if defined as a political faction or movement, would/will be nearly completely traditional and healthy, and only a controversial because the left, as a whole, gets hysterical when seriously challenged.

I’m sorry but no it was not clear as hell. I kid was killed by a racist that was there with a Nazi group. Trump bringing up the both sides thing was an attempt to attack the left during a time that the message should be simple and clear and against the racist movement and murder that happened. The dishonesty around reporting that Trump called Nazis good people is not excusable. But don’t pretend that Trump wasn’t stirring the pot with that message which certainly was not clear. His games are not transparent so don’t play dumb we all can see what he is doing.

Trump was clear in his denouncing of the nazis and the violence and the killing of that woman.

the media and the left delivered a false message to America, with their lying.


the media has been waging a War on Trump.


my point about trumpism stands.

trumpism, if defined as a political faction or movement, would/will be nearly completely traditional and healthy, and only a controversial because the left, as a whole, gets hysterical when seriously challenged.

Your definition is BS. I love being challenged. That’s the best time to solidly your positions and learn new things.

Trump gave a weak denouncement and then moved straight to an attack on the left. Some people read into that and took liberty by defining afalse narrative. As I said, it is inexcusable. Trump does it on the daily And it’s just as wrong. Too bad you can’t admit to that

1. my point about the left, as a whole stands. they are being hysterical because they cannot deal with a serious challenge.

2. TRump gave clear and repeated and strong denouncements of the nazis, the violence and the murderer. your denial just shows what little credibility you should be given.

3. TRump barely mentioned the left.

4. the media and the left as a whole, have been flat out lying. a lot.

5. nothing trump has done, as been half as poisonous as this. his "lies" are mostly harmless hyperbole.