Vietnam War was unwinnable

[harmonica]

For the umpteenth time South Vietnam did NOT fall to an insurrection, it did not fall because it's Government was bad and it did not fall to local rebellion, it was INVADED by 25 divisions of North Vietnamese Troops.

hahhahahahahaha
....the government WAS bad--3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with murder
...the SVN had enormous air support/etc from the US, and still lost
...the government was corrupt and the military also
...because the military and government WERE bad, the soldiers/units were not up to par
the government was crap = UNWINNABLE

Again you fucking loon the Invasion in 75 had NO us Involvement NONE NADA ZIP.

.... you were not in the USMC.....you are very unprofessional and use the language of a 14 year old...definitely not a Gunny

 

[RetiredGySgt]

For the umpteenth time South Vietnam did NOT fall to an insurrection, it did not fall because it's Government was bad and it did not fall to local rebellion, it was INVADED by 25 divisions of North Vietnamese Troops.

hahhahahahahaha
....the government WAS bad--3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with murder
...the SVN had enormous air support/etc from the US, and still lost
...the government was corrupt and the military also
...because the military and government WERE bad, the soldiers/units were not up to par
the government was crap = UNWINNABLE

Again you fucking loon the Invasion in 75 had NO us Involvement NONE NADA ZIP.

.... you were not in the USMC.....you are very unprofessional and use the language of a 14 year old...definitely not a Gunny

You can not understand simple FACTS that are presented you are what 10? 9? Does your mommy know you get on the computer? As for my service since you never served ya fucking coward go cry in mommy's lap ya baby.

 

[harmonica]

For the umpteenth time South Vietnam did NOT fall to an insurrection, it did not fall because it's Government was bad and it did not fall to local rebellion, it was INVADED by 25 divisions of North Vietnamese Troops.

hahhahahahahaha
....the government WAS bad--3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with murder
...the SVN had enormous air support/etc from the US, and still lost
...the government was corrupt and the military also
...because the military and government WERE bad, the soldiers/units were not up to par
the government was crap = UNWINNABLE

Again you fucking loon the Invasion in 75 had NO us Involvement NONE NADA ZIP.

.... you were not in the USMC.....you are very unprofessional and use the language of a 14 year old...definitely not a Gunny

You can not understand simple FACTS that are presented you are what 10? 9? Does your mommy know you get on the computer? As for my service since you never served ya fucking coward go cry in mommy's lap ya baby.

..Ap Bac
....I back up my claims with evidence..you back up yours with childish language

Battle of Ap Bac - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[RetiredGySgt]

For the umpteenth time South Vietnam did NOT fall to an insurrection, it did not fall because it's Government was bad and it did not fall to local rebellion, it was INVADED by 25 divisions of North Vietnamese Troops.

hahhahahahahaha
....the government WAS bad--3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with murder
...the SVN had enormous air support/etc from the US, and still lost
...the government was corrupt and the military also
...because the military and government WERE bad, the soldiers/units were not up to par
the government was crap = UNWINNABLE

Again you fucking loon the Invasion in 75 had NO us Involvement NONE NADA ZIP.

.... you were not in the USMC.....you are very unprofessional and use the language of a 14 year old...definitely not a Gunny

You can not understand simple FACTS that are presented you are what 10? 9? Does your mommy know you get on the computer? As for my service since you never served ya fucking coward go cry in mommy's lap ya baby.

..Ap Bac
....I back up my claims with evidence..you back up yours with childish language

Battle of Ap Bac - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From 1972 to March 1975 South Vietnam held their Country with OUT US troops ya moron. We refused to honor a TREATY and sold out South Vietnam and allowed the North to conquer them all because you liberals are fuck stains and cowards.

 

[harmonica]

For the umpteenth time South Vietnam did NOT fall to an insurrection, it did not fall because it's Government was bad and it did not fall to local rebellion, it was INVADED by 25 divisions of North Vietnamese Troops.

hahhahahahahaha
....the government WAS bad--3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with murder
...the SVN had enormous air support/etc from the US, and still lost
...the government was corrupt and the military also
...because the military and government WERE bad, the soldiers/units were not up to par
the government was crap = UNWINNABLE

Again you fucking loon the Invasion in 75 had NO us Involvement NONE NADA ZIP.

.... you were not in the USMC.....you are very unprofessional and use the language of a 14 year old...definitely not a Gunny

You can not understand simple FACTS that are presented you are what 10? 9? Does your mommy know you get on the computer? As for my service since you never served ya fucking coward go cry in mommy's lap ya baby.

..Ap Bac
....I back up my claims with evidence..you back up yours with childish language

Battle of Ap Bac - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From 1972 to March 1975 South Vietnam held their Country with OUT US troops ya moron. We refused to honor a TREATY and sold out South Vietnam and allowed the North to conquer them all because you liberals are fuck stains and cowards.

.....I'm not liberal ----hahahahahahhahhha........ask any member
....your post means it was unwinnable

 

[RetiredGySgt]

For the umpteenth time South Vietnam did NOT fall to an insurrection, it did not fall because it's Government was bad and it did not fall to local rebellion, it was INVADED by 25 divisions of North Vietnamese Troops.

hahhahahahahaha
....the government WAS bad--3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with murder
...the SVN had enormous air support/etc from the US, and still lost
...the government was corrupt and the military also
...because the military and government WERE bad, the soldiers/units were not up to par
the government was crap = UNWINNABLE

Again you fucking loon the Invasion in 75 had NO us Involvement NONE NADA ZIP.

.... you were not in the USMC.....you are very unprofessional and use the language of a 14 year old...definitely not a Gunny

You can not understand simple FACTS that are presented you are what 10? 9? Does your mommy know you get on the computer? As for my service since you never served ya fucking coward go cry in mommy's lap ya baby.

..Ap Bac
....I back up my claims with evidence..you back up yours with childish language

Battle of Ap Bac - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From 1972 to March 1975 South Vietnam held their Country with OUT US troops ya moron. We refused to honor a TREATY and sold out South Vietnam and allowed the North to conquer them all because you liberals are fuck stains and cowards.

.....I'm not liberal ----hahahahahahhahhha........ask any member
....your post means it was unwinnable

Nope the FACTS are if we had no reneged on our treaty South Vietnam would not have fallen. They successfully stopped the North in 74 and would have stopped them again in 75 if we had not pulled the rug out from under them. The democrats reneged on a BINDING TREATY. And here you are supporting that behavior. a Traitor to the end I guess, enjoy the hell you are destined to go to.

 

[rightwinger]

For the umpteenth time South Vietnam did NOT fall to an insurrection, it did not fall because it's Government was bad and it did not fall to local rebellion, it was INVADED by 25 divisions of North Vietnamese Troops.

South Vietnam had the most modern military equipment in the world and had been trained to fight for decades by US forces.
Still, they folded like a cheap tent once the US forces left.

More money was not going to save them

 

[harmonica]

For the umpteenth time South Vietnam did NOT fall to an insurrection, it did not fall because it's Government was bad and it did not fall to local rebellion, it was INVADED by 25 divisions of North Vietnamese Troops.

hahhahahahahaha
....the government WAS bad--3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with murder
...the SVN had enormous air support/etc from the US, and still lost
...the government was corrupt and the military also
...because the military and government WERE bad, the soldiers/units were not up to par
the government was crap = UNWINNABLE

Again you fucking loon the Invasion in 75 had NO us Involvement NONE NADA ZIP.

.... you were not in the USMC.....you are very unprofessional and use the language of a 14 year old...definitely not a Gunny

You can not understand simple FACTS that are presented you are what 10? 9? Does your mommy know you get on the computer? As for my service since you never served ya fucking coward go cry in mommy's lap ya baby.

..Ap Bac
....I back up my claims with evidence..you back up yours with childish language

Battle of Ap Bac - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From 1972 to March 1975 South Vietnam held their Country with OUT US troops ya moron. We refused to honor a TREATY and sold out South Vietnam and allowed the North to conquer them all because you liberals are fuck stains and cowards.

.....I'm not liberal ----hahahahahahhahhha........ask any member
....your post means it was unwinnable

Nope the FACTS are if we had no reneged on our treaty South Vietnam would not have fallen. They successfully stopped the North in 74 and would have stopped them again in 75 if we had not pulled the rug out from under them. The democrats reneged on a BINDING TREATY. And here you are supporting that behavior. a Traitor to the end I guess, enjoy the hell you are destined to go to.

hahhahahah-I guess we should've stayed there 20 MORE years--and made it a state???!!! hahahahahhahahaha
..how long should we have stayed?

 

[harmonica]

For the umpteenth time South Vietnam did NOT fall to an insurrection, it did not fall because it's Government was bad and it did not fall to local rebellion, it was INVADED by 25 divisions of North Vietnamese Troops.

South Vietnam had the most modern military equipment in the world and had been trained to fight for decades by US forces.
Still, they folded like a cheap tent once the US forces left.

More money was not going to save them

and that is backed up in the book I mentioned.....

 

[harmonica]

For the umpteenth time South Vietnam did NOT fall to an insurrection, it did not fall because it's Government was bad and it did not fall to local rebellion, it was INVADED by 25 divisions of North Vietnamese Troops.

hahhahahahahaha
....the government WAS bad--3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with murder
...the SVN had enormous air support/etc from the US, and still lost
...the government was corrupt and the military also
...because the military and government WERE bad, the soldiers/units were not up to par
the government was crap = UNWINNABLE

Again you fucking loon the Invasion in 75 had NO us Involvement NONE NADA ZIP.

.... you were not in the USMC.....you are very unprofessional and use the language of a 14 year old...definitely not a Gunny

You can not understand simple FACTS that are presented you are what 10? 9? Does your mommy know you get on the computer? As for my service since you never served ya fucking coward go cry in mommy's lap ya baby.

..Ap Bac
....I back up my claims with evidence..you back up yours with childish language

Battle of Ap Bac - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From 1972 to March 1975 South Vietnam held their Country with OUT US troops ya moron. We refused to honor a TREATY and sold out South Vietnam and allowed the North to conquer them all because you liberals are fuck stains and cowards.

.....I'm not liberal ----hahahahahahhahhha........ask any member
....your post means it was unwinnable

Nope the FACTS are if we had no reneged on our treaty South Vietnam would not have fallen. They successfully stopped the North in 74 and would have stopped them again in 75 if we had not pulled the rug out from under them. The democrats reneged on a BINDING TREATY. And here you are supporting that behavior. a Traitor to the end I guess, enjoy the hell you are destined to go to.

please stop posting so much evidence ..I can't keep up with it
hahahahahhahahaha

 

[rightwinger]

For the umpteenth time South Vietnam did NOT fall to an insurrection, it did not fall because it's Government was bad and it did not fall to local rebellion, it was INVADED by 25 divisions of North Vietnamese Troops.

hahhahahahahaha
....the government WAS bad--3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with murder
...the SVN had enormous air support/etc from the US, and still lost
...the government was corrupt and the military also
...because the military and government WERE bad, the soldiers/units were not up to par
the government was crap = UNWINNABLE

Again you fucking loon the Invasion in 75 had NO us Involvement NONE NADA ZIP.

.... you were not in the USMC.....you are very unprofessional and use the language of a 14 year old...definitely not a Gunny

You can not understand simple FACTS that are presented you are what 10? 9? Does your mommy know you get on the computer? As for my service since you never served ya fucking coward go cry in mommy's lap ya baby.

..Ap Bac
....I back up my claims with evidence..you back up yours with childish language

Battle of Ap Bac - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From 1972 to March 1975 South Vietnam held their Country with OUT US troops ya moron. We refused to honor a TREATY and sold out South Vietnam and allowed the North to conquer them all because you liberals are fuck stains and cowards.

Actually South Vietnam sold out the US for over a decade.
They took or military aid and squandered it in corrupt deals for personal wealth. They refused to take a leading role in defending their country and relied on US forces to carry the load.

Once the US pulled out they collapsed. The American people had enough

 

[harmonica]

For the umpteenth time South Vietnam did NOT fall to an insurrection, it did not fall because it's Government was bad and it did not fall to local rebellion, it was INVADED by 25 divisions of North Vietnamese Troops.

hahhahahahahaha
....the government WAS bad--3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with murder
...the SVN had enormous air support/etc from the US, and still lost
...the government was corrupt and the military also
...because the military and government WERE bad, the soldiers/units were not up to par
the government was crap = UNWINNABLE

Again you fucking loon the Invasion in 75 had NO us Involvement NONE NADA ZIP.

.... you were not in the USMC.....you are very unprofessional and use the language of a 14 year old...definitely not a Gunny

You can not understand simple FACTS that are presented you are what 10? 9? Does your mommy know you get on the computer? As for my service since you never served ya fucking coward go cry in mommy's lap ya baby.

..Ap Bac
....I back up my claims with evidence..you back up yours with childish language

Battle of Ap Bac - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From 1972 to March 1975 South Vietnam held their Country with OUT US troops ya moron. We refused to honor a TREATY and sold out South Vietnam and allowed the North to conquer them all because you liberals are fuck stains and cowards.

Actually South Vietnam sold out the US for over a decade.
They took or military aid and squandered it in corrupt deals for personal wealth. They refused to take a leading role in defending their country and relied on US forces to carry the load.

Once the US pulled out they collapsed. The American people had enough

exactly = unwinnable

 

[RetiredGySgt]

For the umpteenth time South Vietnam did NOT fall to an insurrection, it did not fall because it's Government was bad and it did not fall to local rebellion, it was INVADED by 25 divisions of North Vietnamese Troops.

hahhahahahahaha
....the government WAS bad--3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with murder
...the SVN had enormous air support/etc from the US, and still lost
...the government was corrupt and the military also
...because the military and government WERE bad, the soldiers/units were not up to par
the government was crap = UNWINNABLE

Again you fucking loon the Invasion in 75 had NO us Involvement NONE NADA ZIP.

.... you were not in the USMC.....you are very unprofessional and use the language of a 14 year old...definitely not a Gunny

You can not understand simple FACTS that are presented you are what 10? 9? Does your mommy know you get on the computer? As for my service since you never served ya fucking coward go cry in mommy's lap ya baby.

..Ap Bac
....I back up my claims with evidence..you back up yours with childish language

Battle of Ap Bac - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From 1972 to March 1975 South Vietnam held their Country with OUT US troops ya moron. We refused to honor a TREATY and sold out South Vietnam and allowed the North to conquer them all because you liberals are fuck stains and cowards.

.....I'm not liberal ----hahahahahahhahhha........ask any member
....your post means it was unwinnable

Nope the FACTS are if we had no reneged on our treaty South Vietnam would not have fallen. They successfully stopped the North in 74 and would have stopped them again in 75 if we had not pulled the rug out from under them. The democrats reneged on a BINDING TREATY. And here you are supporting that behavior. a Traitor to the end I guess, enjoy the hell you are destined to go to.

hahhahahah-I guess we should've stayed there 20 MORE years--and made it a state???!!! hahahahahhahahaha
..how long should we have stayed?

Again for the truly STUPID we left they defended it themselves in 73 and 74 and would have in 75 if we hadn't cut off their supply line. God you prove just how fucking stupid you are with each new post.

 

[Dick Foster]

..we are talking REALITY--not nuking anyone....not invading the north like the Russians and US did to Germany --that wasn't going to happen--even if they did invade the North, they couldn't stay there forever.....
..first--the French lost--and after we gave them MILLIONS$ and with all their '''advantages'' ....this should've been a lesson
......a big problem was the Vietnamese government [ and military ] = for a long time it was corrupt/unstable/etc = they had 3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with a MURDER..with many attempted coups before and after......that mess was still there after Thieu took over
...N Vietnam did not have to even beat the US ......
.......the US could cut off Korea because it was peninsula--where as NV could bring troops/etc to the South over land
.

Basically we were on the wrong side in Vietnam and the whole damn thing started as far back as Wilson but we were far too busy sucking up to the fucking frogs so we were sucked in on the wrong frigging side by all the assholes from Wilton right on up through LBJ. It took Nixon to get us out of it. Ho modeled his constitution after our own and he came to us for help first, but oh no, we had to side with the god damn arrogant assed French froggy assholes. The useless fucks. I'm no fan of the French as you can probably gather.

 

[9thIDdoc]

For the umpteenth time South Vietnam did NOT fall to an insurrection, it did not fall because it's Government was bad and it did not fall to local rebellion, it was INVADED by 25 divisions of North Vietnamese Troops.

hahhahahahahaha
....the government WAS bad--3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with murder
...the SVN had enormous air support/etc from the US, and still lost
...the government was corrupt and the military also
...because the military and government WERE bad, the soldiers/units were not up to par
the government was crap = UNWINNABLE

Again you fucking loon the Invasion in 75 had NO us Involvement NONE NADA ZIP.

.... you were not in the USMC.....you are very unprofessional and use the language of a 14 year old...definitely not a Gunny

You can not understand simple FACTS that are presented you are what 10? 9? Does your mommy know you get on the computer? As for my service since you never served ya fucking coward go cry in mommy's lap ya baby.

..Ap Bac
....I back up my claims with evidence..you back up yours with childish language

Battle of Ap Bac - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From 1972 to March 1975 South Vietnam held their Country with OUT US troops ya moron. We refused to honor a TREATY and sold out South Vietnam and allowed the North to conquer them all because you liberals are fuck stains and cowards.

Actually South Vietnam sold out the US for over a decade.
They took or military aid and squandered it in corrupt deals for personal wealth. They refused to take a leading role in defending their country and relied on US forces to carry the load.

Once the US pulled out they collapsed. The American people had enough

South Vietnam was not overrun until after the US had withdrawn AND after the US congress cut our aid and supply while the USSR and China continued to generously resupply and equip North Vietnam. South Vietnam could and did fight North Vietnam to a standstill but it was far over matched opposing all three without help. Help we had promised then treacherously withdrew. We abandoned an ally much to our shame. In any case please explain exactly how we lost a war after we had withdrawn from it. You might also provide evidence of your other delusional claims. Fat chance.

 

[rightwinger]

For the umpteenth time South Vietnam did NOT fall to an insurrection, it did not fall because it's Government was bad and it did not fall to local rebellion, it was INVADED by 25 divisions of North Vietnamese Troops.

hahhahahahahaha
....the government WAS bad--3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with murder
...the SVN had enormous air support/etc from the US, and still lost
...the government was corrupt and the military also
...because the military and government WERE bad, the soldiers/units were not up to par
the government was crap = UNWINNABLE

Again you fucking loon the Invasion in 75 had NO us Involvement NONE NADA ZIP.

.... you were not in the USMC.....you are very unprofessional and use the language of a 14 year old...definitely not a Gunny

You can not understand simple FACTS that are presented you are what 10? 9? Does your mommy know you get on the computer? As for my service since you never served ya fucking coward go cry in mommy's lap ya baby.

..Ap Bac
....I back up my claims with evidence..you back up yours with childish language

Battle of Ap Bac - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From 1972 to March 1975 South Vietnam held their Country with OUT US troops ya moron. We refused to honor a TREATY and sold out South Vietnam and allowed the North to conquer them all because you liberals are fuck stains and cowards.

Actually South Vietnam sold out the US for over a decade.
They took or military aid and squandered it in corrupt deals for personal wealth. They refused to take a leading role in defending their country and relied on US forces to carry the load.

Once the US pulled out they collapsed. The American people had enough

South Vietnam was not overrun until after the US had withdrawn AND after the US congress cut our aid and supply while the USSR and China continued to generously resupply and equip North Vietnam. South Vietnam could and did fight North Vietnam to a standstill but it was far over matched opposing all three without help. Help we had promised then treacherously withdrew. We abandoned an ally much to our shame. In any case please explain exactly how we lost a war after we had withdrawn from it. You might also provide evidence of your other delusional claims. Fat chance.

Sorry, but South Vietnam had more help from the US than they deserved. They couldnt defeat N Vietnam forces with full US support on the ground, in the air and at sea. What makes you think that the US throwing more money at them was going to save them?

I never said we lost the war. We took our ball and went home. Call it what you wish.

 

[9thIDdoc]

I think everyone would want a fair election....what ALL the Vietnamese wanted--and that was the FOREIGNERS out--- stop messing with their country and politics

If given a choice, why would the Vietnamese choose to align with the Communists over aligning with a Government allied with the Western Governments?

They saw what type of Vietnam the Western Governments wanted. The West treated Vietnamese as incapable of ruling themselves. They needed a big brother to watch over them. Attempts by Ho Chi Minh to set up a free Vietnamese Government were laughed off by the west.

Communism offered them a self determined Government with Vietnamese leaders

Great (but silly) imagination. Invasion is not an "offer". Conquered by force is not "self-determination". There was most certainly nothing brotherly about Ho Chi Minh or North Vietnam. They were azzhos who stole their own peoples' land and slaughtered them if they resisted giving up farms that had been in their families for generations.

 

[rightwinger]

I think everyone would want a fair election....what ALL the Vietnamese wanted--and that was the FOREIGNERS out--- stop messing with their country and politics

If given a choice, why would the Vietnamese choose to align with the Communists over aligning with a Government allied with the Western Governments?

They saw what type of Vietnam the Western Governments wanted. The West treated Vietnamese as incapable of ruling themselves. They needed a big brother to watch over them. Attempts by Ho Chi Minh to set up a free Vietnamese Government were laughed off by the west.

Communism offered them a self determined Government with Vietnamese leaders

Great (but silly) imagination. Invasion is not an "offer". Conquered by force is not "self-determination". There was most certainly nothing brotherly about Ho Chi Minh or North Vietnam. They were azzhos who stole their own peoples' land and slaughtered them if they resisted giving up farms that had been in their families for generations.

Bad behavior on both sides of the border. Also bad behavior on our side.

Ho Chi Minh tried working with the Western Powers after WWI and WWII. We laughed at the idea that Vietnamese were capable of self rule.

The communists offered a better deal than we did in that regard.

Regardless, we killed over two million Vietnamese trying to protect them from Communism.

That was much worse than a Communist Vietnam turned out to be

 

[9thIDdoc]

From the New York Times

Opinion
OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
The War We Could Have Won
By Stephen J. Morris
WASHINGTON - THE Vietnam War is universally regarded as a disaster for what it did to the American and Vietnamese people. However, 30 years after the war's end, the reasons for its outcome remain a matter of dispute.
The most popular explanation among historians and journalists is that the defeat was a result of American policy makers' cold-war-driven misunderstanding of North Vietnam's leaders as dangerous Communists. In truth, they argue, we were fighting a nationalist movement with great popular support. In this view, "our side," South Vietnam, was a creation of foreigners and led by a corrupt urban elite with no popular roots. Hence it could never prevail, not even with a half-million American troops, making the war "unwinnable."
This simple explanation is repudiated by powerful historical evidence, both old and new. Its proponents mistakenly base their conclusions on the situation in Vietnam during the 1950's and early 1960's and ignore the changing course of the war (notably, the increasing success of President Richard Nixon's Vietnamization strategy) and the evolution of South Vietnamese society (in particular the introduction of agrarian reforms).
For all the claims of popular support for the Vietcong insurgency, far more South Vietnamese peasants fought on the side of Saigon than on the side of Hanoi. The Vietcong were basically defeated by the beginning of 1972, which is why the North Vietnamese launched a huge conventional offensive at the end of March that year. During the Easter Offensive of 1972 -- at the time the biggest campaign of the war -- the South Vietnamese Army was able to hold onto every one of the 44 provincial capitals except Quang Tri, which it regained a few months later. The South Vietnamese relied on American air support during that offensive.
If the United States had provided that level of support in 1975, when South Vietnam collapsed in the face of another North Vietnamese offensive, the outcome might have been at least the same as in 1972. But intense lobbying of Congress by the antiwar movement, especially in the context of the Watergate scandal, helped to drive cutbacks of American aid in 1974. Combined with the impact of the world oil crisis and inflation of 1973-74, the results were devastating for the south. As the triumphant North Vietnamese commander, Gen. Van Tien Dung, wrote later, President Nguyen Van Thieu of South Vietnam was forced to fight "a poor man's war."
Even Hanoi's main patron, the Soviet Union, was convinced that a North Vietnamese military victory was highly unlikely. Evidence from Soviet Communist Party archives suggests that, until 1974, Soviet military intelligence analysts and diplomats never believed that the North Vietnamese would be victorious on the battlefield. Only political and diplomatic efforts could succeed. Moscow thought that the South Vietnamese government was strong enough to defend itself with a continuation of American logistical support. The former Soviet chargé d'affaires in Hanoi during the 1970's told me in Moscow in late 1993 that if one looked at the balance of forces, one could not predict that the South would be defeated. Until 1975, Moscow was not only impressed by American military power and political will, it also clearly had no desire to go to war with the United States over Vietnam. But after 1975, Soviet fear of the United States dissipated.

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During the war the Soviets despised their North Vietnamese "friends" (the term of confidential bureaucratic reference, rather than "comrades"). Indeed, Henry A. Kissinger's accounts of his dealings, as Nixon's national security adviser, with President Thieu are models of respect when compared with the bitter Soviet accounts of their difficulties with their counterparts.
In secret internal reports, Hanoi-based Soviet diplomats regularly complained about the deceitfulness of the North Vietnamese, who concealed strategic planning from their more powerful patron. In a 1972 report to Moscow, the Soviet ambassador even complained that although Marshal Pavel Batitsky, commander of the Soviet Air Defense Forces, had visited Hanoi earlier that year and completed a major military aid agreement, North Vietnamese leaders did not inform him of the imminent launch date of their Easter Offensive.
What is also clear from Soviet archival sources is that those who believed that North Vietnam had more than national unification on its mind were right: Its leaders were imbued with a sense of their ideological mission -- not only to unify Vietnam under Communist Party rule, but also to support the victory of Communists in other nations. They saw themselves as the outpost of world revolution in Southeast Asia and desired to help Communists in Cambodia, Laos, Thailand and elsewhere.
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Soviet archives show that after the war ended in 1975, with American power in retreat, Hanoi used part of its captured American arsenal to support Communist revolutions around the world. In 1980 some of these weapons were shipped via Cuba to El Salvador. This dimension of Vietnamese behavior derived from a deep commitment to the messianic internationalism of Marxist-Leninist ideology.
Vietnam today is not the North Vietnam of 1955, 1965 or 1975. Like post-Mao China it has retreated from totalitarianism to authoritarianism. It has reformed its economy and its foreign policy to become more integrated into the world. But those changes were not inevitable and would not necessarily have occurred had Mikhail Gorbachev not ascended to power in Moscow, and had the Soviet Union and its empire not collapsed. Nor would these changes necessarily have occurred had China not provided a new cultural model for Vietnam to follow, as it has for centuries.
Precisely because Vietnam has changed for the better, we need to recognize what a profoundly ideological and aggressive totalitarian regime we faced three, four and five decades ago. And out of respect for the evidence of history, we need to recognize what happened in the 1970's and why.
In 1974-75, the United States snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Hundreds of thousands of our Vietnamese allies were incarcerated, and more than a million driven into exile. The awesome image of the United States was diminished, and its enemies were thereby emboldened, drawing the United States into new conflicts by proxy in Afghanistan, Africa and Latin America. And the bitterness of so many American war veterans, who saw their sacrifices so casually demeaned and unnecessarily squandered, haunts American society and political life to this day.
Op-Ed Contributor Stephen J. Morris, a fellow at Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies, is writing a book on the Vietnam War in the Nixon years.

 

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Link for above: Opinion | The War We Could Have Won