Vietnam War was unwinnable

harmonica

Gold Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
28,990
Reaction score
5,846
Points
290
..we are talking REALITY--not nuking anyone....not invading the north like the Russians and US did to Germany --that wasn't going to happen--even if they did invade the North, they couldn't stay there forever.....
..first--the French lost--and after we gave them MILLIONS$ and with all their '''advantages'' ....this should've been a lesson
......a big problem was the Vietnamese government [ and military ] = for a long time it was corrupt/unstable/etc = they had 3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with a MURDER..with many attempted coups before and after......that mess was still there after Thieu took over
...N Vietnam did not have to even beat the US ......
.......the US could cut off Korea because it was peninsula--where as NV could bring troops/etc to the South over land
.
 
Last edited:

JGalt

Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
29,723
Reaction score
10,435
Points
930
Location
SW Wisconsin
Even though the cost was high, we did win in a way. Vietnam seems to have become more capitalist over the years. They manufacture alot of the stuff sold in Walmart, and they've become a tourist attraction.

I mean, compared to North Korea.
 

JoeB131

Diamond Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
123,960
Reaction score
11,976
Points
2,055
Location
Chicago, Chicago, that Toddling Town
Even though the cost was high, we did win in a way. Vietnam seems to have become more capitalist over the years. They manufacture alot of the stuff sold in Walmart, and they've become a tourist attraction.

I mean, compared to North Korea.
You mean they are a source of cheap labor? How did we win anything?

I could imagine the Vietnam vet grumbling about Vietnamese stuff in walmart when he can't find a good job, just like the WWII vets grumbled about Volkwagens and Toyotas in the 1970's... while watching American Plants close.

Here's a crazy idea... let's make sure when we "Win", it's a win for the working class, not the rich.
 

JGalt

Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
29,723
Reaction score
10,435
Points
930
Location
SW Wisconsin
Even though the cost was high, we did win in a way. Vietnam seems to have become more capitalist over the years. They manufacture alot of the stuff sold in Walmart, and they've become a tourist attraction.

I mean, compared to North Korea.
You mean they are a source of cheap labor? How did we win anything?

I could imagine the Vietnam vet grumbling about Vietnamese stuff in walmart when he can't find a good job, just like the WWII vets grumbled about Volkwagens and Toyotas in the 1970's... while watching American Plants close.

Here's a crazy idea... let's make sure when we "Win", it's a win for the working class, not the rich.
OK then. Next time we'll just nuke them.
 

JoeB131

Diamond Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
123,960
Reaction score
11,976
Points
2,055
Location
Chicago, Chicago, that Toddling Town
.we are talking REALITY--not nuking anyone....not invading the north like the Russians and US did to Germany --that wasn't going to happen--even if they did invade the North, they couldn't stay there forever.....
..first--the French lost--and after we gave them MILLIONS$ and with all their '''advantages'' ....this should've been a lesson
......a big problem was the Vietnamese government [ and military ] = for a long time it was corrupt/unstable/etc = they had 3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with a MURDER..with many attempted coups before and after......that mess was still there after Thieu took over
...N Vietnam did not have to even beat the US ......
.......the US could cut off Korea because it was peninsula--where as NV could bring troops/etc to the South over land
Reality- What did "Winning" look like in Vietnam?

The problem is, for the Vietnamese, we were just the third of multiple invaders they were fighting off. France, Japan and the uS saw it about their international influence... the Vietnamese just wanted to be left alone to their own devices in their own country.

The problem with the people we supported is that they were French Educated, in some cases Catholic when the majority of Vietnam was Buddhist, and were seen as collaborators, not national leaders. Meanwhile, Ho Chi Mihn had spent his whole life fighting foreign invaders... which made him a hero.
 

Bleipriester

Freedom!
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
26,098
Reaction score
1,824
Points
275
Location
Stupid-19
Even though the cost was high, we did win in a way. Vietnam seems to have become more capitalist over the years. They manufacture alot of the stuff sold in Walmart, and they've become a tourist attraction.

I mean, compared to North Korea.
Now your stuff is made in communist China.
 

Bleipriester

Freedom!
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
26,098
Reaction score
1,824
Points
275
Location
Stupid-19
..we are talking REALITY--not nuking anyone....not invading the north like the Russians and US did to Germany --that wasn't going to happen--even if they did invade the North, they couldn't stay there forever.....
..first--the French lost--and after we gave them MILLIONS$ and with all their '''advantages'' ....this should've been a lesson
......a big problem was the Vietnamese government [ and military ] = for a long time it was corrupt/unstable/etc = they had 3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with a MURDER..with many attempted coups before and after......that mess was still there after Thieu took over
...N Vietnam did not have to even beat the US ......
.......the US could cut off Korea because it was peninsula--where as NV could bring troops/etc to the South over land
.
Yeah that regime had little public support, I guess.
 

gipper

Libertarian/Anarchist
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
36,416
Reaction score
8,723
Points
1,330
They never intended to win. They just wanted to get rich.
 

JGalt

Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
29,723
Reaction score
10,435
Points
930
Location
SW Wisconsin
Even though the cost was high, we did win in a way. Vietnam seems to have become more capitalist over the years. They manufacture alot of the stuff sold in Walmart, and they've become a tourist attraction.

I mean, compared to North Korea.
Now your stuff is made in communist China.
I see that. I bought one of these newer-made Ontario Air Force survival knives yesterday. Ontario made these from WW2 to the Gulf War and they're pretty decent knives. Walmart marked them down from $40 to $19.

The knife is well-made but the leather sheath was made in China, and is pretty crappy, compared to the original US military issue sheaths. The reinforcement on the sheath is plastic now instead of metal

 

rightwinger

Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
208,757
Reaction score
35,796
Points
2,190
Even though the cost was high, we did win in a way. Vietnam seems to have become more capitalist over the years. They manufacture alot of the stuff sold in Walmart, and they've become a tourist attraction.

I mean, compared to North Korea.
Shows we should have just left them alone
 

rightwinger

Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
208,757
Reaction score
35,796
Points
2,190
Even though the cost was high, we did win in a way. Vietnam seems to have become more capitalist over the years. They manufacture alot of the stuff sold in Walmart, and they've become a tourist attraction.

I mean, compared to North Korea.
You mean they are a source of cheap labor? How did we win anything?

I could imagine the Vietnam vet grumbling about Vietnamese stuff in walmart when he can't find a good job, just like the WWII vets grumbled about Volkwagens and Toyotas in the 1970's... while watching American Plants close.

Here's a crazy idea... let's make sure when we "Win", it's a win for the working class, not the rich.
OK then. Next time we'll just nuke them.
We dropped more bombs on them than we did in WWII
 

JGalt

Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
29,723
Reaction score
10,435
Points
930
Location
SW Wisconsin
Even though the cost was high, we did win in a way. Vietnam seems to have become more capitalist over the years. They manufacture alot of the stuff sold in Walmart, and they've become a tourist attraction.

I mean, compared to North Korea.
You mean they are a source of cheap labor? How did we win anything?

I could imagine the Vietnam vet grumbling about Vietnamese stuff in walmart when he can't find a good job, just like the WWII vets grumbled about Volkwagens and Toyotas in the 1970's... while watching American Plants close.

Here's a crazy idea... let's make sure when we "Win", it's a win for the working class, not the rich.
OK then. Next time we'll just nuke them.
We dropped more bombs on them than we did in WWII
Then it must have worked, seeing as how they're now a trading partner.
 

rightwinger

Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
208,757
Reaction score
35,796
Points
2,190
Even though the cost was high, we did win in a way. Vietnam seems to have become more capitalist over the years. They manufacture alot of the stuff sold in Walmart, and they've become a tourist attraction.

I mean, compared to North Korea.
You mean they are a source of cheap labor? How did we win anything?

I could imagine the Vietnam vet grumbling about Vietnamese stuff in walmart when he can't find a good job, just like the WWII vets grumbled about Volkwagens and Toyotas in the 1970's... while watching American Plants close.

Here's a crazy idea... let's make sure when we "Win", it's a win for the working class, not the rich.
OK then. Next time we'll just nuke them.
We dropped more bombs on them than we did in WWII
Then it must have worked, seeing as how they're now a trading partner.
It cost millions of Vietnamese lives and 60,000 Americans to get what we could have gotten for nothing
 

Frannie

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
6,880
Reaction score
336
Points
135
..we are talking REALITY--not nuking anyone....not invading the north like the Russians and US did to Germany --that wasn't going to happen--even if they did invade the North, they couldn't stay there forever.....
..first--the French lost--and after we gave them MILLIONS$ and with all their '''advantages'' ....this should've been a lesson
......a big problem was the Vietnamese government [ and military ] = for a long time it was corrupt/unstable/etc = they had 3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with a MURDER..with many attempted coups before and after......that mess was still there after Thieu took over
...N Vietnam did not have to even beat the US ......
.......the US could cut off Korea because it was peninsula--where as NV could bring troops/etc to the South over land
.
What is your point
 

JGalt

Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
29,723
Reaction score
10,435
Points
930
Location
SW Wisconsin
Even though the cost was high, we did win in a way. Vietnam seems to have become more capitalist over the years. They manufacture alot of the stuff sold in Walmart, and they've become a tourist attraction.

I mean, compared to North Korea.
You mean they are a source of cheap labor? How did we win anything?

I could imagine the Vietnam vet grumbling about Vietnamese stuff in walmart when he can't find a good job, just like the WWII vets grumbled about Volkwagens and Toyotas in the 1970's... while watching American Plants close.

Here's a crazy idea... let's make sure when we "Win", it's a win for the working class, not the rich.
OK then. Next time we'll just nuke them.
We dropped more bombs on them than we did in WWII
Then it must have worked, seeing as how they're now a trading partner.
It cost millions of Vietnamese lives and 60,000 Americans to get what we could have gotten for nothing
It's far more complex than that.
 

TroglocratsRdumb

Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2017
Messages
15,850
Reaction score
4,945
Points
360
Marxism is slavery and oppression.
The Vietcong murdered and oppressed millions.
Troglocrats are dumb.
 

Jets

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Messages
1,299
Reaction score
353
Points
140
More often than not the isolationist position is the better alternative to being the global police. Granted, at times it cannot be helped, but the war profiteers are too quick to beat their drums.
 

rightwinger

Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
208,757
Reaction score
35,796
Points
2,190
You mean they are a source of cheap labor? How did we win anything?

I could imagine the Vietnam vet grumbling about Vietnamese stuff in walmart when he can't find a good job, just like the WWII vets grumbled about Volkwagens and Toyotas in the 1970's... while watching American Plants close.

Here's a crazy idea... let's make sure when we "Win", it's a win for the working class, not the rich.
OK then. Next time we'll just nuke them.
We dropped more bombs on them than we did in WWII
Then it must have worked, seeing as how they're now a trading partner.
It cost millions of Vietnamese lives and 60,000 Americans to get what we could have gotten for nothing
It's far more complex than that.
Not complex when you consider....Was is worth it?
 

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top