JustAGuy1
Diamond Member
- Aug 18, 2019
- 16,896
- 14,817
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Nope, but hey live and let live. Near as I can tell you think Jesus is an allegory.
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Understanding The Book of Revelation from a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint perspective
- Thread starter onefour1
- Start date
Nope, but hey live and let live. Near as I can tell you think Jesus is an allegory.
- Thread starter
- #102
2 Peter 3:8
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.To the Lord, the term "shortly" could be several thousand years. There are many things in the Book of Revelation that didn't occur within 40 years or even 1000 years. The Book takes us through the second coming of the Lord in the clouds of heaven, the millennial era and the end of the mortal earth. To say it all occurred within 40 years after the prophesy is absurd.
Last edited:
The Old Testament doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth by name, but certain prophecies were fulfilled only by Jesus. Daniel 9, for example, mentions some:
The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.
There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
This passage lists six prophecies for Israel’s Messiah to fulfill: to finish the transgression, conquer sin, atone for iniquity, bring everlasting righteousness, seal all future visions, and bless and anoint a majestic new most holy place. These things happened with Jesus.
And the kingdom came with Jesus, Daniel's rock built by no human hand that would fill the earth (2:34-35). As it turned out, no one fulfilled these prophecies except Jesus the Nazarene.
Yes, the holy people pined for a warrior king to deliver them from their foreign overlords. This idolatrous people were prone to blaming others for their own iniquity, but Jesus put the blame on them and ended their reign without drawing any blood except his own. He was not the messiah they expected, so they had him killed.
Except Daniel was NOT a prophet, but a historian writing about Antiochus IV..
Jesus Christ believed that Daniel was certainly a prophet:
Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Daniel wrote about Antiochus IV as the first Abomination of Desolation. Jesus and Matthew are referencing Daniel.
Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
This time when you see the Abominton of Desolation as spoken of in Daniel, flee Jerusalem to the mountains (and avoid the tribulation)
They were two seperate events..
So Jesus was a liar?
Jesus is referencng the earlier Abominationn of Desolation during the rule of Antiochus IV.
You keep running from my question because it's not religion you detest, it's Christianity. As a Hindu you believe in shiva and all the rest.
You're a moron. I'm Episcopalian.
Horse hockey. You don't believe in Jesus at all.
So much so that I don't think we should tamper with scripture.
Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
King James Version (KJV)
You "tamper" with Scripture with nearly every post, He is the Word, ALL of the Word, both Old and New Testament. When you twist scripture to fit what you want it to say that is tampering. You may believe in "a" jesus, but not THE Jesus.
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
I didn't write or rewrite any scripture.
Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
King James Version (KJV)
Of course you. Tell me, is Jesus coming again?
2 Timothy 3:5-7
King James Version
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
You mean within 40 years? A generation?
LOL, sorry son. My Jesus will return during the future Tribulation and I will meet Him in the clouds and although I WISH it would happen Pre Trib it won't. I will most likely die for my faith. People like you will cheer it on.
That's Tim Lahaye and Hal Lindsey. Read it again.
Sorry, no but it's fine, your "faith" isn't in the "real" Gospel. You have a myopic view of the "truth", one that doesn't take into account the power the reality of a living and and active to this very dau Jesus.
By the way, Hal and Tim are pre-trib, read it again. Unfortunately I'll be going through the Tribulation(if I live that long)
LOLOL Futurists never read scripture.
The tribulation was over in 70 AD.
LOL, you go with that son, I know you think you are the smartest little boy in the class but you aren't. I'm fine with you going to hell it is after all your choice.
I'm a grandmother.. The book of Revelation is addressed to the 7 churchs and happens within 40 years of the crucifixion.
Nope, but hey live and let live. Near as I can tell you think Jesus is an allegory.
Why don't you read this thread... in particular the last three posts by norwegan.
Its REAL simple.. if you trust scripture rather than Hal Lindsey.
The Old Testament doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth by name, but certain prophecies were fulfilled only by Jesus. Daniel 9, for example, mentions some:
The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.
There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
This passage lists six prophecies for Israel’s Messiah to fulfill: to finish the transgression, conquer sin, atone for iniquity, bring everlasting righteousness, seal all future visions, and bless and anoint a majestic new most holy place. These things happened with Jesus.
And the kingdom came with Jesus, Daniel's rock built by no human hand that would fill the earth (2:34-35). As it turned out, no one fulfilled these prophecies except Jesus the Nazarene.
Yes, the holy people pined for a warrior king to deliver them from their foreign overlords. This idolatrous people were prone to blaming others for their own iniquity, but Jesus put the blame on them and ended their reign without drawing any blood except his own. He was not the messiah they expected, so they had him killed.
Except Daniel was NOT a prophet, but a historian writing about Antiochus IV..
Jesus Christ believed that Daniel was certainly a prophet:
Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Daniel wrote about Antiochus IV as the first Abomination of Desolation. Jesus and Matthew are referencing Daniel.
Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
This time when you see the Abominton of Desolation as spoken of in Daniel, flee Jerusalem to the mountains (and avoid the tribulation)
They were two seperate events..
So Jesus was a liar?
Jesus is referencng the earlier Abominationn of Desolation during the rule of Antiochus IV.
You keep running from my question because it's not religion you detest, it's Christianity. As a Hindu you believe in shiva and all the rest.
You're a moron. I'm Episcopalian.
Horse hockey. You don't believe in Jesus at all.
So much so that I don't think we should tamper with scripture.
Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
King James Version (KJV)
You "tamper" with Scripture with nearly every post, He is the Word, ALL of the Word, both Old and New Testament. When you twist scripture to fit what you want it to say that is tampering. You may believe in "a" jesus, but not THE Jesus.
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
I didn't write or rewrite any scripture.
Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
King James Version (KJV)
Of course you. Tell me, is Jesus coming again?
2 Timothy 3:5-7
King James Version
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
You mean within 40 years? A generation?
LOL, sorry son. My Jesus will return during the future Tribulation and I will meet Him in the clouds and although I WISH it would happen Pre Trib it won't. I will most likely die for my faith. People like you will cheer it on.
Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus …
- Thread starter
- #105
It did occur in the future. Nearly a generation after he uttered it.Jesus was referencing the future and not the past. His prophesy was to occur in the future.
Who do you think I was replying to? I don't even know who Hal Lindsey is! Why don't you read the Book of Revelation? Its real simple .. if you trust scripture rather than norwegan.The Old Testament doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth by name, but certain prophecies were fulfilled only by Jesus. Daniel 9, for example, mentions some:
The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.
There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
This passage lists six prophecies for Israel’s Messiah to fulfill: to finish the transgression, conquer sin, atone for iniquity, bring everlasting righteousness, seal all future visions, and bless and anoint a majestic new most holy place. These things happened with Jesus.
And the kingdom came with Jesus, Daniel's rock built by no human hand that would fill the earth (2:34-35). As it turned out, no one fulfilled these prophecies except Jesus the Nazarene.
Yes, the holy people pined for a warrior king to deliver them from their foreign overlords. This idolatrous people were prone to blaming others for their own iniquity, but Jesus put the blame on them and ended their reign without drawing any blood except his own. He was not the messiah they expected, so they had him killed.
Except Daniel was NOT a prophet, but a historian writing about Antiochus IV..
Jesus Christ believed that Daniel was certainly a prophet:
Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Daniel wrote about Antiochus IV as the first Abomination of Desolation. Jesus and Matthew are referencing Daniel.
Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
This time when you see the Abominton of Desolation as spoken of in Daniel, flee Jerusalem to the mountains (and avoid the tribulation)
They were two seperate events..
So Jesus was a liar?
Jesus is referencng the earlier Abominationn of Desolation during the rule of Antiochus IV.
You keep running from my question because it's not religion you detest, it's Christianity. As a Hindu you believe in shiva and all the rest.
You're a moron. I'm Episcopalian.
Horse hockey. You don't believe in Jesus at all.
So much so that I don't think we should tamper with scripture.
Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
King James Version (KJV)
You "tamper" with Scripture with nearly every post, He is the Word, ALL of the Word, both Old and New Testament. When you twist scripture to fit what you want it to say that is tampering. You may believe in "a" jesus, but not THE Jesus.
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
I didn't write or rewrite any scripture.
Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
King James Version (KJV)
Of course you. Tell me, is Jesus coming again?
2 Timothy 3:5-7
King James Version
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
You mean within 40 years? A generation?
LOL, sorry son. My Jesus will return during the future Tribulation and I will meet Him in the clouds and although I WISH it would happen Pre Trib it won't. I will most likely die for my faith. People like you will cheer it on.
That's Tim Lahaye and Hal Lindsey. Read it again.
Sorry, no but it's fine, your "faith" isn't in the "real" Gospel. You have a myopic view of the "truth", one that doesn't take into account the power the reality of a living and and active to this very dau Jesus.
By the way, Hal and Tim are pre-trib, read it again. Unfortunately I'll be going through the Tribulation(if I live that long)
LOLOL Futurists never read scripture.
The tribulation was over in 70 AD.
LOL, you go with that son, I know you think you are the smartest little boy in the class but you aren't. I'm fine with you going to hell it is after all your choice.
I'm a grandmother.. The book of Revelation is addressed to the 7 churchs and happens within 40 years of the crucifixion.
Nope, but hey live and let live. Near as I can tell you think Jesus is an allegory.
Why don't you read this thread... in particular the last three posts by norwegan.
Its REAL simple.. if you trust scripture rather than Hal Lindsey.
One of the biggest mistakes that mainstream and dispensationalist Christians make in reading the Scriptures is to pluck them out of their historical contexts. Hence they have a giant cube descending from the sky that Jesus plans on marrying; they have Jesus "returning" (a term he himself does not use in describing his Parousia) in bodily form (which the Bible does not say); they keep waiting on a new brick-and-mortar temple that will never be built; etc.Indeed...........most people do not comprehend the fact that for the 1st generation (about 10 yrs) after the ascension of the Christ the early church was populated expressly via those of Jewish heritage, the first gentile convert did not occur for over a decade later, after the sacrifice of the cross. God never lies, His prophecies never fail........if the Christ sent an angel to John to project "future" events that were to "Shortly take place"........that prophecy NEVER FAILED.It did occur in the future. Nearly a generation after he uttered it.Jesus was referencing the future and not the past. His prophesy was to occur in the future.
Revelation is a book of Comfort to the early church with God telling His people regardless of how things might appear......the church would overcome any and all tribulations as God had promised father Abraham to populate the earth with his descendants so they would number like the stars in the sky..................That promise is still alive today, as members are being added to the Lord's church everyday, Christianity has indeed become a GREAT NATION in a spiritual nature with the Lord Jesus Christ still sitting in reign at the right hand of the Father, as King of Kings.
Christianity is the world's largest Religion, populating almost a third of the human race around the globe. Major religious groups - Wikipedia
The apostles wrote that they themselves were witnessing the last days, yet most modern Christians caricature the Scriptures with their ridiculous, cartoonish visions that lack context. No one makes a mockery of Christianity like evangelical and dispensationalist Christians do.
You explain this so clearly.. Thank you.
It did occur in the future. Nearly a generation after he uttered it.Jesus was referencing the future and not the past. His prophesy was to occur in the future.
Who do you think I was replying to? I don't even know who Hal Lindsey is! Why don't you read the Book of Revelation? Its real simple .. if you trust scripture rather than norwegan.The Old Testament doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth by name, but certain prophecies were fulfilled only by Jesus. Daniel 9, for example, mentions some:
The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.
There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
This passage lists six prophecies for Israel’s Messiah to fulfill: to finish the transgression, conquer sin, atone for iniquity, bring everlasting righteousness, seal all future visions, and bless and anoint a majestic new most holy place. These things happened with Jesus.
And the kingdom came with Jesus, Daniel's rock built by no human hand that would fill the earth (2:34-35). As it turned out, no one fulfilled these prophecies except Jesus the Nazarene.
Yes, the holy people pined for a warrior king to deliver them from their foreign overlords. This idolatrous people were prone to blaming others for their own iniquity, but Jesus put the blame on them and ended their reign without drawing any blood except his own. He was not the messiah they expected, so they had him killed.
Except Daniel was NOT a prophet, but a historian writing about Antiochus IV..
Jesus Christ believed that Daniel was certainly a prophet:
Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Daniel wrote about Antiochus IV as the first Abomination of Desolation. Jesus and Matthew are referencing Daniel.
Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
This time when you see the Abominton of Desolation as spoken of in Daniel, flee Jerusalem to the mountains (and avoid the tribulation)
They were two seperate events..
So Jesus was a liar?
Jesus is referencng the earlier Abominationn of Desolation during the rule of Antiochus IV.
You keep running from my question because it's not religion you detest, it's Christianity. As a Hindu you believe in shiva and all the rest.
You're a moron. I'm Episcopalian.
Horse hockey. You don't believe in Jesus at all.
So much so that I don't think we should tamper with scripture.
Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
King James Version (KJV)
You "tamper" with Scripture with nearly every post, He is the Word, ALL of the Word, both Old and New Testament. When you twist scripture to fit what you want it to say that is tampering. You may believe in "a" jesus, but not THE Jesus.
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
I didn't write or rewrite any scripture.
Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
King James Version (KJV)
Of course you. Tell me, is Jesus coming again?
2 Timothy 3:5-7
King James Version
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
You mean within 40 years? A generation?
LOL, sorry son. My Jesus will return during the future Tribulation and I will meet Him in the clouds and although I WISH it would happen Pre Trib it won't. I will most likely die for my faith. People like you will cheer it on.
That's Tim Lahaye and Hal Lindsey. Read it again.
Sorry, no but it's fine, your "faith" isn't in the "real" Gospel. You have a myopic view of the "truth", one that doesn't take into account the power the reality of a living and and active to this very dau Jesus.
By the way, Hal and Tim are pre-trib, read it again. Unfortunately I'll be going through the Tribulation(if I live that long)
LOLOL Futurists never read scripture.
The tribulation was over in 70 AD.
LOL, you go with that son, I know you think you are the smartest little boy in the class but you aren't. I'm fine with you going to hell it is after all your choice.
I'm a grandmother.. The book of Revelation is addressed to the 7 churchs and happens within 40 years of the crucifixion.
Nope, but hey live and let live. Near as I can tell you think Jesus is an allegory.
Why don't you read this thread... in particular the last three posts by norwegan.
Its REAL simple.. if you trust scripture rather than Hal Lindsey.
Revelation makes is very clear that it will happen within a generation .. 40 years.. Before this generation passes.
John makes it clear that he is their brother in tribulation.
You can't take scripture out of its historical context ..
- Thread starter
- #108
Show me in the Book of Revelation where it says it will all come to pass in 40 years.It did occur in the future. Nearly a generation after he uttered it.Jesus was referencing the future and not the past. His prophesy was to occur in the future.
Who do you think I was replying to? I don't even know who Hal Lindsey is! Why don't you read the Book of Revelation? Its real simple .. if you trust scripture rather than norwegan.The Old Testament doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth by name, but certain prophecies were fulfilled only by Jesus. Daniel 9, for example, mentions some:
The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.
There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
This passage lists six prophecies for Israel’s Messiah to fulfill: to finish the transgression, conquer sin, atone for iniquity, bring everlasting righteousness, seal all future visions, and bless and anoint a majestic new most holy place. These things happened with Jesus.
And the kingdom came with Jesus, Daniel's rock built by no human hand that would fill the earth (2:34-35). As it turned out, no one fulfilled these prophecies except Jesus the Nazarene.
Yes, the holy people pined for a warrior king to deliver them from their foreign overlords. This idolatrous people were prone to blaming others for their own iniquity, but Jesus put the blame on them and ended their reign without drawing any blood except his own. He was not the messiah they expected, so they had him killed.
Except Daniel was NOT a prophet, but a historian writing about Antiochus IV..
Jesus Christ believed that Daniel was certainly a prophet:
Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Daniel wrote about Antiochus IV as the first Abomination of Desolation. Jesus and Matthew are referencing Daniel.
Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
This time when you see the Abominton of Desolation as spoken of in Daniel, flee Jerusalem to the mountains (and avoid the tribulation)
They were two seperate events..
So Jesus was a liar?
Jesus is referencng the earlier Abominationn of Desolation during the rule of Antiochus IV.
You keep running from my question because it's not religion you detest, it's Christianity. As a Hindu you believe in shiva and all the rest.
You're a moron. I'm Episcopalian.
Horse hockey. You don't believe in Jesus at all.
So much so that I don't think we should tamper with scripture.
Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
King James Version (KJV)
You "tamper" with Scripture with nearly every post, He is the Word, ALL of the Word, both Old and New Testament. When you twist scripture to fit what you want it to say that is tampering. You may believe in "a" jesus, but not THE Jesus.
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
I didn't write or rewrite any scripture.
Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
King James Version (KJV)
Of course you. Tell me, is Jesus coming again?
2 Timothy 3:5-7
King James Version
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
You mean within 40 years? A generation?
LOL, sorry son. My Jesus will return during the future Tribulation and I will meet Him in the clouds and although I WISH it would happen Pre Trib it won't. I will most likely die for my faith. People like you will cheer it on.
That's Tim Lahaye and Hal Lindsey. Read it again.
Sorry, no but it's fine, your "faith" isn't in the "real" Gospel. You have a myopic view of the "truth", one that doesn't take into account the power the reality of a living and and active to this very dau Jesus.
By the way, Hal and Tim are pre-trib, read it again. Unfortunately I'll be going through the Tribulation(if I live that long)
LOLOL Futurists never read scripture.
The tribulation was over in 70 AD.
LOL, you go with that son, I know you think you are the smartest little boy in the class but you aren't. I'm fine with you going to hell it is after all your choice.
I'm a grandmother.. The book of Revelation is addressed to the 7 churchs and happens within 40 years of the crucifixion.
Nope, but hey live and let live. Near as I can tell you think Jesus is an allegory.
Why don't you read this thread... in particular the last three posts by norwegan.
Its REAL simple.. if you trust scripture rather than Hal Lindsey.
Revelation makes is very clear that it will happen within a generation .. 40 years.. Before this generation passes.
John makes it clear that he is their brother in tribulation.
You can't take scripture out of its historical context ..
Show me in the Book of Revelation where it says it will all come to pass in 40 years.It did occur in the future. Nearly a generation after he uttered it.Jesus was referencing the future and not the past. His prophesy was to occur in the future.
Who do you think I was replying to? I don't even know who Hal Lindsey is! Why don't you read the Book of Revelation? Its real simple .. if you trust scripture rather than norwegan.The Old Testament doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth by name, but certain prophecies were fulfilled only by Jesus. Daniel 9, for example, mentions some:
The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.
There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
This passage lists six prophecies for Israel’s Messiah to fulfill: to finish the transgression, conquer sin, atone for iniquity, bring everlasting righteousness, seal all future visions, and bless and anoint a majestic new most holy place. These things happened with Jesus.
And the kingdom came with Jesus, Daniel's rock built by no human hand that would fill the earth (2:34-35). As it turned out, no one fulfilled these prophecies except Jesus the Nazarene.
Yes, the holy people pined for a warrior king to deliver them from their foreign overlords. This idolatrous people were prone to blaming others for their own iniquity, but Jesus put the blame on them and ended their reign without drawing any blood except his own. He was not the messiah they expected, so they had him killed.
Except Daniel was NOT a prophet, but a historian writing about Antiochus IV..
Jesus Christ believed that Daniel was certainly a prophet:
Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Daniel wrote about Antiochus IV as the first Abomination of Desolation. Jesus and Matthew are referencing Daniel.
Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
This time when you see the Abominton of Desolation as spoken of in Daniel, flee Jerusalem to the mountains (and avoid the tribulation)
They were two seperate events..
So Jesus was a liar?
Jesus is referencng the earlier Abominationn of Desolation during the rule of Antiochus IV.
You keep running from my question because it's not religion you detest, it's Christianity. As a Hindu you believe in shiva and all the rest.
You're a moron. I'm Episcopalian.
Horse hockey. You don't believe in Jesus at all.
So much so that I don't think we should tamper with scripture.
Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
King James Version (KJV)
You "tamper" with Scripture with nearly every post, He is the Word, ALL of the Word, both Old and New Testament. When you twist scripture to fit what you want it to say that is tampering. You may believe in "a" jesus, but not THE Jesus.
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
I didn't write or rewrite any scripture.
Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
King James Version (KJV)
Of course you. Tell me, is Jesus coming again?
2 Timothy 3:5-7
King James Version
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
You mean within 40 years? A generation?
LOL, sorry son. My Jesus will return during the future Tribulation and I will meet Him in the clouds and although I WISH it would happen Pre Trib it won't. I will most likely die for my faith. People like you will cheer it on.
That's Tim Lahaye and Hal Lindsey. Read it again.
Sorry, no but it's fine, your "faith" isn't in the "real" Gospel. You have a myopic view of the "truth", one that doesn't take into account the power the reality of a living and and active to this very dau Jesus.
By the way, Hal and Tim are pre-trib, read it again. Unfortunately I'll be going through the Tribulation(if I live that long)
LOLOL Futurists never read scripture.
The tribulation was over in 70 AD.
LOL, you go with that son, I know you think you are the smartest little boy in the class but you aren't. I'm fine with you going to hell it is after all your choice.
I'm a grandmother.. The book of Revelation is addressed to the 7 churchs and happens within 40 years of the crucifixion.
Nope, but hey live and let live. Near as I can tell you think Jesus is an allegory.
Why don't you read this thread... in particular the last three posts by norwegan.
Its REAL simple.. if you trust scripture rather than Hal Lindsey.
Revelation makes is very clear that it will happen within a generation .. 40 years.. Before this generation passes.
John makes it clear that he is their brother in tribulation.
You can't take scripture out of its historical context ..
40 years is a generation all through the Bible.. Moses and the Israelites stayed in Sinai 40 years .. a generation.
Futurism is pretty new.. since about 1840, based on the dreams of a teen-aged girl, Mrgret McDonald.
- Thread starter
- #110
Where does it say in the bible that a generation is 40 years? For an entire generation to pass, they all would need to have died. But that generation of Christ's day did not all die (see post #18). At least according to Jesus in Matthew 16:28 he tells us that there be some standing there who would not die until he came in his kingdom. Has he come in his kingdom?
Where does it say in the bible that a generation is 40 years? For an entire generation to pass, they all would need to have died. But that generation of Christ's day did not all die (see post #18). At least according to Jesus in Matthew 16:28 he tells us that there be some standing there who would not die until he came in his kingdom. Has he come in his kingdom?
A generation in the Bible is normally 40 years. 100 years (4 * 100 = 400 years). This is understood by virtue of the fact that Abraham had his promised child when he was exactly 100 years old (Gen. 21:5); it is evident, therefore, that the age of a man when his first child
Meaning of a 'Generation' in the Bible
www.bible-codes.org/old-prophecy_5c-Yeshua-codes.htm
How Long is a Generation? – Understanding Bible Prophecy
www.understandingbibleprophecy.org/2018/05/how-long-is-a-generation
May 01, 2018 · The people wandered 40 years because God did not want any of that older generation that came out of Egypt to enter the land. Thus, that generation was more than 40 years old since it is the adults who are being spoken about. Besides, nowhere in
- Thread starter
- #112
It has nothing to do with 40 years. At any given time on the earth there are those who are really old who have not died and their are those who are barely born. All who are alive at the time Jesus gave his prophesy were considered the current generation. Now this is what I posted in post #18:
When Jesus comes in his kingdom this is what it will be like:
Have all the tribes of the earth seen the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven? Remember some that were with Jesus were not to die until this was to happen. Has it happened? That generation will not pass away until this happens. I can assure you that it has not happened yet.
When Jesus said that this generation shall not pass away until all these things are fulfilled he was referring to the prophesies mentioned prior to when he said, "this generation shall not pass away". For example:
Matthew 24:1-34
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 ¶ And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16 Then let them which be in Judæa flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 ¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
In order to understand verse 34, you need to understand the doctrine of translation and the blessing that was placed upon the Apostle John.
Hebrews 11:5
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
A translated being is one who is changed by God and made to not suffer death within the normally alotted time God has everyone else die. Many who have been translated will be changed in the twinkling of an eye from their translated state to a resurrected state and will not taste of death. However to some that are translated, they are not give such a promise. Consider the promise given to the Apostle John:
John 21:20-24
20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
In the above verse, Jesus blessed John that he would remain on the earth until Christ would again come upon the earth at his second coming. He did not however bless John that he would never die, but that he would stay alive until the time that Christ would come again. We believe that John was a translated being and is still alive today.
So when Jesus told his disciples that the current generation would not all pass away until all that he prophesied would be fulfilled, he could prophesy of things all the way up until John actually passes away since he is part of the generation spoken of. Thus all of the prophesies will be fulfilled before all of that generation, including John, passes away.
At another time Jesus told his Apostles the following:
Matthew 16:28
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
When Jesus comes in his kingdom this is what it will be like:
Matthew 24:30
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Have all the tribes of the earth seen the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven? Remember some that were with Jesus were not to die until this was to happen. Has it happened? That generation will not pass away until this happens. I can assure you that it has not happened yet.
It has nothing to do with 40 years. At any given time on the earth there are those who are really old who have not died and their are those who are barely born. All who are alive at the time Jesus gave his prophesy were considered the current generation. Now this is what I posted in post #18:
When Jesus said that this generation shall not pass away until all these things are fulfilled he was referring to the prophesies mentioned prior to when he said, "this generation shall not pass away". For example:
Matthew 24:1-34
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 ¶ And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16 Then let them which be in Judæa flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 ¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
In order to understand verse 34, you need to understand the doctrine of translation and the blessing that was placed upon the Apostle John.
Hebrews 11:5
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
A translated being is one who is changed by God and made to not suffer death within the normally alotted time God has everyone else die. Many who have been translated will be changed in the twinkling of an eye from their translated state to a resurrected state and will not taste of death. However to some that are translated, they are not give such a promise. Consider the promise given to the Apostle John:
John 21:20-24
20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
In the above verse, Jesus blessed John that he would remain on the earth until Christ would again come upon the earth at his second coming. He did not however bless John that he would never die, but that he would stay alive until the time that Christ would come again. We believe that John was a translated being and is still alive today.
So when Jesus told his disciples that the current generation would not all pass away until all that he prophesied would be fulfilled, he could prophesy of things all the way up until John actually passes away since he is part of the generation spoken of. Thus all of the prophesies will be fulfilled before all of that generation, including John, passes away.
At another time Jesus told his Apostles the following:
Matthew 16:28
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
When Jesus comes in his kingdom this is what it will be like:
Matthew 24:30
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Have all the tribes of the earth seen the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven? Remember some that were with Jesus were not to die until this was to happen. Has it happened? That generation will not pass away until this happens. I can assure you that it has not happened yet.
The destruction of the Temple and the tribulation were over in 70 AD 40 years after the crucifixion.
The Greek word parousia is a noun that means "a coming" or "a presence."
JustAGuy1
Diamond Member
- Aug 18, 2019
- 16,896
- 14,817
- 2,290
The Old Testament doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth by name, but certain prophecies were fulfilled only by Jesus. Daniel 9, for example, mentions some:
The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.
There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
This passage lists six prophecies for Israel’s Messiah to fulfill: to finish the transgression, conquer sin, atone for iniquity, bring everlasting righteousness, seal all future visions, and bless and anoint a majestic new most holy place. These things happened with Jesus.
And the kingdom came with Jesus, Daniel's rock built by no human hand that would fill the earth (2:34-35). As it turned out, no one fulfilled these prophecies except Jesus the Nazarene.
Yes, the holy people pined for a warrior king to deliver them from their foreign overlords. This idolatrous people were prone to blaming others for their own iniquity, but Jesus put the blame on them and ended their reign without drawing any blood except his own. He was not the messiah they expected, so they had him killed.
Except Daniel was NOT a prophet, but a historian writing about Antiochus IV..
Jesus Christ believed that Daniel was certainly a prophet:
Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Daniel wrote about Antiochus IV as the first Abomination of Desolation. Jesus and Matthew are referencing Daniel.
Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
This time when you see the Abominton of Desolation as spoken of in Daniel, flee Jerusalem to the mountains (and avoid the tribulation)
They were two seperate events..
So Jesus was a liar?
Jesus is referencng the earlier Abominationn of Desolation during the rule of Antiochus IV.
You keep running from my question because it's not religion you detest, it's Christianity. As a Hindu you believe in shiva and all the rest.
You're a moron. I'm Episcopalian.
Horse hockey. You don't believe in Jesus at all.
So much so that I don't think we should tamper with scripture.
Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
King James Version (KJV)
You "tamper" with Scripture with nearly every post, He is the Word, ALL of the Word, both Old and New Testament. When you twist scripture to fit what you want it to say that is tampering. You may believe in "a" jesus, but not THE Jesus.
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
I didn't write or rewrite any scripture.
Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
King James Version (KJV)
Of course you. Tell me, is Jesus coming again?
2 Timothy 3:5-7
King James Version
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
You mean within 40 years? A generation?
LOL, sorry son. My Jesus will return during the future Tribulation and I will meet Him in the clouds and although I WISH it would happen Pre Trib it won't. I will most likely die for my faith. People like you will cheer it on.
That's Tim Lahaye and Hal Lindsey. Read it again.
Sorry, no but it's fine, your "faith" isn't in the "real" Gospel. You have a myopic view of the "truth", one that doesn't take into account the power the reality of a living and and active to this very dau Jesus.
By the way, Hal and Tim are pre-trib, read it again. Unfortunately I'll be going through the Tribulation(if I live that long)
LOLOL Futurists never read scripture.
The tribulation was over in 70 AD.
LOL, you go with that son, I know you think you are the smartest little boy in the class but you aren't. I'm fine with you going to hell it is after all your choice.
I'm a grandmother.. The book of Revelation is addressed to the 7 churchs and happens within 40 years of the crucifixion.
Nope, but hey live and let live. Near as I can tell you think Jesus is an allegory.
Why don't you read this thread... in particular the last three posts by norwegan.
Its REAL simple.. if you trust scripture rather than Hal Lindsey.
You keep throwing out Lindsay and LaHaye, it makes you look silly. I know you think you're a giant of intellect and that's fine, but my God is alive and still gathering his Church.
JustAGuy1
Diamond Member
- Aug 18, 2019
- 16,896
- 14,817
- 2,290
The Old Testament doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth by name, but certain prophecies were fulfilled only by Jesus. Daniel 9, for example, mentions some:
The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.
There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
This passage lists six prophecies for Israel’s Messiah to fulfill: to finish the transgression, conquer sin, atone for iniquity, bring everlasting righteousness, seal all future visions, and bless and anoint a majestic new most holy place. These things happened with Jesus.
And the kingdom came with Jesus, Daniel's rock built by no human hand that would fill the earth (2:34-35). As it turned out, no one fulfilled these prophecies except Jesus the Nazarene.
Yes, the holy people pined for a warrior king to deliver them from their foreign overlords. This idolatrous people were prone to blaming others for their own iniquity, but Jesus put the blame on them and ended their reign without drawing any blood except his own. He was not the messiah they expected, so they had him killed.
Except Daniel was NOT a prophet, but a historian writing about Antiochus IV..
Jesus Christ believed that Daniel was certainly a prophet:
Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Daniel wrote about Antiochus IV as the first Abomination of Desolation. Jesus and Matthew are referencing Daniel.
Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
This time when you see the Abominton of Desolation as spoken of in Daniel, flee Jerusalem to the mountains (and avoid the tribulation)
They were two seperate events..
So Jesus was a liar?
Jesus is referencng the earlier Abominationn of Desolation during the rule of Antiochus IV.
You keep running from my question because it's not religion you detest, it's Christianity. As a Hindu you believe in shiva and all the rest.
You're a moron. I'm Episcopalian.
Horse hockey. You don't believe in Jesus at all.
So much so that I don't think we should tamper with scripture.
Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
King James Version (KJV)
You "tamper" with Scripture with nearly every post, He is the Word, ALL of the Word, both Old and New Testament. When you twist scripture to fit what you want it to say that is tampering. You may believe in "a" jesus, but not THE Jesus.
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
I didn't write or rewrite any scripture.
Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
King James Version (KJV)
Of course you. Tell me, is Jesus coming again?
2 Timothy 3:5-7
King James Version
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
You mean within 40 years? A generation?
LOL, sorry son. My Jesus will return during the future Tribulation and I will meet Him in the clouds and although I WISH it would happen Pre Trib it won't. I will most likely die for my faith. People like you will cheer it on.
That's Tim Lahaye and Hal Lindsey. Read it again.
Sorry, no but it's fine, your "faith" isn't in the "real" Gospel. You have a myopic view of the "truth", one that doesn't take into account the power the reality of a living and and active to this very dau Jesus.
By the way, Hal and Tim are pre-trib, read it again. Unfortunately I'll be going through the Tribulation(if I live that long)
LOLOL Futurists never read scripture.
The tribulation was over in 70 AD.
LOL, you go with that son, I know you think you are the smartest little boy in the class but you aren't. I'm fine with you going to hell it is after all your choice.
I'm a grandmother.. The book of Revelation is addressed to the 7 churchs and happens within 40 years of the crucifixion.
Nope, but hey live and let live. Near as I can tell you think Jesus is an allegory.
Why don't you read this thread... in particular the last three posts by norwegan.
Its REAL simple.. if you trust scripture rather than Hal Lindsey.
Was Jesus born of a virgin?
Was He crucified for our sin?
Was He raised again on the third day?
The Old Testament doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth by name, but certain prophecies were fulfilled only by Jesus. Daniel 9, for example, mentions some:
The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.
There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
This passage lists six prophecies for Israel’s Messiah to fulfill: to finish the transgression, conquer sin, atone for iniquity, bring everlasting righteousness, seal all future visions, and bless and anoint a majestic new most holy place. These things happened with Jesus.
And the kingdom came with Jesus, Daniel's rock built by no human hand that would fill the earth (2:34-35). As it turned out, no one fulfilled these prophecies except Jesus the Nazarene.
Yes, the holy people pined for a warrior king to deliver them from their foreign overlords. This idolatrous people were prone to blaming others for their own iniquity, but Jesus put the blame on them and ended their reign without drawing any blood except his own. He was not the messiah they expected, so they had him killed.
Except Daniel was NOT a prophet, but a historian writing about Antiochus IV..
Jesus Christ believed that Daniel was certainly a prophet:
Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Daniel wrote about Antiochus IV as the first Abomination of Desolation. Jesus and Matthew are referencing Daniel.
Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
This time when you see the Abominton of Desolation as spoken of in Daniel, flee Jerusalem to the mountains (and avoid the tribulation)
They were two seperate events..
So Jesus was a liar?
Jesus is referencng the earlier Abominationn of Desolation during the rule of Antiochus IV.
You keep running from my question because it's not religion you detest, it's Christianity. As a Hindu you believe in shiva and all the rest.
You're a moron. I'm Episcopalian.
Horse hockey. You don't believe in Jesus at all.
So much so that I don't think we should tamper with scripture.
Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
King James Version (KJV)
You "tamper" with Scripture with nearly every post, He is the Word, ALL of the Word, both Old and New Testament. When you twist scripture to fit what you want it to say that is tampering. You may believe in "a" jesus, but not THE Jesus.
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
I didn't write or rewrite any scripture.
Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
King James Version (KJV)
Of course you. Tell me, is Jesus coming again?
2 Timothy 3:5-7
King James Version
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
You mean within 40 years? A generation?
LOL, sorry son. My Jesus will return during the future Tribulation and I will meet Him in the clouds and although I WISH it would happen Pre Trib it won't. I will most likely die for my faith. People like you will cheer it on.
That's Tim Lahaye and Hal Lindsey. Read it again.
Sorry, no but it's fine, your "faith" isn't in the "real" Gospel. You have a myopic view of the "truth", one that doesn't take into account the power the reality of a living and and active to this very dau Jesus.
By the way, Hal and Tim are pre-trib, read it again. Unfortunately I'll be going through the Tribulation(if I live that long)
LOLOL Futurists never read scripture.
The tribulation was over in 70 AD.
LOL, you go with that son, I know you think you are the smartest little boy in the class but you aren't. I'm fine with you going to hell it is after all your choice.
I'm a grandmother.. The book of Revelation is addressed to the 7 churchs and happens within 40 years of the crucifixion.
Nope, but hey live and let live. Near as I can tell you think Jesus is an allegory.
Why don't you read this thread... in particular the last three posts by norwegan.
Its REAL simple.. if you trust scripture rather than Hal Lindsey.
Was Jesus born of a virgin?
Was He crucified for our sin?
Was He raised again on the third day?
Yes. What does that have to do with Revelation?
The Greek word parousia (pronounced pair-oo-see-ah) is a noun that means "a coming" or "a presence."
Why would anyone attempt to understand the "mind of God" when its stated clearly, "For My thoughts are not your thought, nor are your ways My ways, 'Says the Lord'. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than yours, and My thoughts than yours." -- Isaiah 55:8-92 Peter 3:8
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
To the Lord, the term "shortly" could be several thousand years. There are many things in the Book of Revelation that didn't occur within 40 years or even 1000 years. The Book takes us through the second coming of the Lord in the clouds of heaven, the millennial era and the end of the mortal earth. To say it all occurred within 40 years after the prophesy is absurd.
I like the way you "cherry picked" a single sentence away from the contextual integrity of the entire passage. The entire passage includes 2 Peter 3:3-9. Peter is not speaking of any tribulations facing the infant church, he's addressing the 2nd coming of the Lord. On the other hand John is indeed addressing the coming tribulations that will face the infant church.........that will Shortly come to pass. John is speaking to the churches of his day (why would they fear any tribulation or have concern about a future event that would not take place for 1800 years?)
Peter was warning people there were some claiming that sense the Lord had not returned by now.......was He ever going to return? He told them they were willingly forgetting that the Lord did previously bring judgement upon man (Noah). If God was willing to destroy the earth once before He would do it again (at a time of His choosing)........because God is longsuffering toward us and does not want any to perish and wants ALL to come to repentance before the final judgement.
What was Peter's point in mentioning a day in comparison to a thousand years? God does not hold time to the same significance or standard as man, to an eternal being that has always been and will always be.... thousands of years pass like days to us..........
What part of THE TIME IS NEAR found in revelation do you fail to comprehend? "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants -- THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS -- (there's no mention of a day or years etc.). And He sent and signified (presented in symbolism) it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the Word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of prophecy; and keep those things which are written in it; FOR THE TIME IS NEAR." -- Rev. 1:1-3
This book of symbolic prophecy was addressed to, "John, to the seven churches which are in Asia; Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before His throne." -- Rev. 1:4
Again........why would the members of these 7 churches be concerned about TRIBULATIONS that were to happen to a generation of people thousands of years in the future?
God is not the author of confusion.
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- Thread starter
- #119
Jesus also taughtWhy would anyone attempt to understand the "mind of God" when its stated clearly, "For My thoughts are not your thought, nor are your ways My ways, 'Says the Lord'. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than yours, and My thoughts than yours." -- Isaiah 55:8-92 Peter 3:8
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
To the Lord, the term "shortly" could be several thousand years. There are many things in the Book of Revelation that didn't occur within 40 years or even 1000 years. The Book takes us through the second coming of the Lord in the clouds of heaven, the millennial era and the end of the mortal earth. To say it all occurred within 40 years after the prophesy is absurd.
John 17:3
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.So that they might know him.
Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.So that they might become perfect like him.
1 John 5:20
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.So that they might understand him and become like him and be one with him.
I never said Peter was speaking of tribulation. I simply pointed out to you that one day to the Lord is as a thousand years to us. Thus, what is shortly to come to pass with the Lord may not be what is shortly or near to us.I like the way you "cherry picked" a single sentence away from the contextual integrity of the entire passage. The entire passage includes 2 Peter 3:3-9. Peter is not speaking of any tribulations facing the infant church, he's addressing the 2nd coming of the Lord. On the other hand John is indeed addressing the coming tribulations that will face the infant church.........that will Shortly come to pass. John is speaking to the churches of his day (why would they fear any tribulation or have concern about a future event that would not take place for 1800 years?)
My point exactly. So when the Lord says something is to come shortly. It could be a few thousand years or even more.Peter was warning people there were some claiming that sense the Lord had not returned by now.......was He ever going to return? He told them they were willingly forgetting that the Lord did previously bring judgement upon man (Noah). If God was willing to destroy the earth once before He would do it again (at a time of His choosing)........because God is longsuffering toward us and does not want any to perish and wants ALL to come to repentance before the final judgement.
What was Peter's point in mentioning a day in comparison to a thousand years? God does not hold time to the same significance or standard as man, to an eternal being that has always been and will always be.... thousands of years pass like days to us..........
Right, so you don't know if he is referring to 40 years or 2000 years.What part of THE TIME IS NEAR found in revelation do you fail to comprehend? "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants -- THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS -- (there's no mention of a day or years etc.).
Because I never said that all his prophesies were to occur in these last days but some would occur starting from the time he gave the prophesy. Go back and read my posts. I disagreed with surada about the Abomination of Desolation being prophesied by Jesus in Matthew 24 as being that of Antiochus IV since that occurred in the past and Jesus was prophesying of the future. I have stated that the Abomination of Desolation was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. But I also pointed out that Jesus prophesied that His second coming would also occur before the current generation should pass away showing her the doctrine of translation and blessing of John the Apostle and how Jesus taught that some of those standing before him would live to see his second coming.And He sent and signified (presented in symbolism) it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the Word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of prophecy; and keep those things which are written in it; FOR THE TIME IS NEAR." -- Rev. 1:1-3
This book of symbolic prophecy was addressed to, "John, to the seven churches which are in Asia; Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before His throne." -- Rev. 1:4
Again........why would the members of these 7 churches be concerned about TRIBULATIONS that were to happen to a generation of people thousands of years in the future?
Matthew 16:28
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.Read all of post #112 above for my explanation. I don't believe that Jesus has come again in his kingdom nor do I believe that the following prophecies were fulfilled yet that are to occur before that generation should pass away.
Matthew 24:27, 30
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
...
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
So I ask you if you believe that these verses have come to pass? If you do not believe that these verses have yet come to pass, then all that is in Revelation did not come to pass within the 40 years spoken of by surada. Also the generation which Jesus spoke of would not yet have passed away according to Matthew 24.
The people of that day would be concerned because it is not told when the coming of the Lord would be without further revelation regarding the prophesies of the Book of Revelation and the tribulation and destruction of their temple, aka The Abomination of Desolation, which was upon them.
I agree but Matthew 24 does prophesy of the second coming of the Lord and it has not yet occurred. The generation has not yet passed away based on my discussion found in post #18 and #112. There is no confusion that the Revelation of John speaks of the second coming of Jesus Christ, the millennium, and the end of this mortal world. My point is that these things did not occur with the 40 year period that surada speaks of and that there is no reference in scripture to "40 years" in relation to Matthew 24 or the Book of Revelation.God is not the author of confusion.
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Why would anyone attempt to understand the "mind of God" when its stated clearly, "For My thoughts are not your thought, nor are your ways My ways, 'Says the Lord'. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than yours, and My thoughts than yours." -- Isaiah 55:8-92 Peter 3:8
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
To the Lord, the term "shortly" could be several thousand years. There are many things in the Book of Revelation that didn't occur within 40 years or even 1000 years. The Book takes us through the second coming of the Lord in the clouds of heaven, the millennial era and the end of the mortal earth. To say it all occurred within 40 years after the prophesy is absurd.
I like the way you "cherry picked" a single sentence away from the contextual integrity of the entire passage. The entire passage includes 2 Peter 3:3-9. Peter is not speaking of any tribulations facing the infant church, he's addressing the 2nd coming of the Lord. On the other hand John is indeed addressing the coming tribulations that will face the infant church.........that will Shortly come to pass. John is speaking to the churches of his day (why would they fear any tribulation or have concern about a future event that would not take place for 1800 years?)
Peter was warning people there were some claiming that sense the Lord had not returned by now.......was He ever going to return? He told them they were willingly forgetting that the Lord did previously bring judgement upon man (Noah). If God was willing to destroy the earth once before He would do it again (at a time of His choosing)........because God is longsuffering toward us and does not want any to perish and wants ALL to come to repentance before the final judgement.
What was Peter's point in mentioning a day in comparison to a thousand years? God does not hold time to the same significance or standard as man, to an eternal being that has always been and will always be.... thousands of years pass like days to us..........
What part of THE TIME IS NEAR found in revelation do you fail to comprehend? "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants -- THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS -- (there's no mention of a day or years etc.). And He sent and signified (presented in symbolism) it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the Word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of prophecy; and keep those things which are written in it; FOR THE TIME IS NEAR." -- Rev. 1:1-3
This book of symbolic prophecy was addressed to, "John, to the seven churches which are in Asia; Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before His throne." -- Rev. 1:4
Again........why would the members of these 7 churches be concerned about TRIBULATIONS that were to happen to a generation of people thousands of years in the future?
God is not the author of confusion.
Why would anyone attempt to understand the "mind of God" when its stated clearly, "For My thoughts are not your thought, nor are your ways My ways, 'Says the Lord'. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than yours, and My thoughts than yours." -- Isaiah 55:8-92 Peter 3:8
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
To the Lord, the term "shortly" could be several thousand years. There are many things in the Book of Revelation that didn't occur within 40 years or even 1000 years. The Book takes us through the second coming of the Lord in the clouds of heaven, the millennial era and the end of the mortal earth. To say it all occurred within 40 years after the prophesy is absurd.
I like the way you "cherry picked" a single sentence away from the contextual integrity of the entire passage. The entire passage includes 2 Peter 3:3-9. Peter is not speaking of any tribulations facing the infant church, he's addressing the 2nd coming of the Lord. On the other hand John is indeed addressing the coming tribulations that will face the infant church.........that will Shortly come to pass. John is speaking to the churches of his day (why would they fear any tribulation or have concern about a future event that would not take place for 1800 years?)
Peter was warning people there were some claiming that sense the Lord had not returned by now.......was He ever going to return? He told them they were willingly forgetting that the Lord did previously bring judgement upon man (Noah). If God was willing to destroy the earth once before He would do it again (at a time of His choosing)........because God is longsuffering toward us and does not want any to perish and wants ALL to come to repentance before the final judgement.
What was Peter's point in mentioning a day in comparison to a thousand years? God does not hold time to the same significance or standard as man, to an eternal being that has always been and will always be.... thousands of years pass like days to us..........
What part of THE TIME IS NEAR found in revelation do you fail to comprehend? "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants -- THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS -- (there's no mention of a day or years etc.). And He sent and signified (presented in symbolism) it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the Word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of prophecy; and keep those things which are written in it; FOR THE TIME IS NEAR." -- Rev. 1:1-3
This book of symbolic prophecy was addressed to, "John, to the seven churches which are in Asia; Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before His throne." -- Rev. 1:4
Again........why would the members of these 7 churches be concerned about TRIBULATIONS that were to happen to a generation of people thousands of years in the future?
God is not the author of confusion.
Peter died before the destruction of the Temple and the tribulation which was local. Jesus told the new Christians to flee Jerusalem to the mountains to avoid it. They did. They fled to Pella.
You're right.. God is NOT the author of confusion .. The futurists are.
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