Understanding The Book of Revelation from a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint perspective

2 Peter 3:8

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

To the Lord, the term "shortly" could be several thousand years. There are many things in the Book of Revelation that didn't occur within 40 years or even 1000 years. The Book takes us through the second coming of the Lord in the clouds of heaven, the millennial era and the end of the mortal earth. To say it all occurred within 40 years after the prophesy is absurd.
Why would anyone attempt to understand the "mind of God" when its stated clearly, "For My thoughts are not your thought, nor are your ways My ways, 'Says the Lord'. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than yours, and My thoughts than yours." -- Isaiah 55:8-9
Jesus also taught

John 17:3

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So that they might know him.

Matthew 5:48

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

So that they might become perfect like him.

1 John 5:20

20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

So that they might understand him and become like him and be one with him.


I like the way you "cherry picked" a single sentence away from the contextual integrity of the entire passage. The entire passage includes 2 Peter 3:3-9. Peter is not speaking of any tribulations facing the infant church, he's addressing the 2nd coming of the Lord. On the other hand John is indeed addressing the coming tribulations that will face the infant church.........that will Shortly come to pass. John is speaking to the churches of his day (why would they fear any tribulation or have concern about a future event that would not take place for 1800 years?)
I never said Peter was speaking of tribulation. I simply pointed out to you that one day to the Lord is as a thousand years to us. Thus, what is shortly to come to pass with the Lord may not be what is shortly or near to us.

Peter was warning people there were some claiming that sense the Lord had not returned by now.......was He ever going to return? He told them they were willingly forgetting that the Lord did previously bring judgement upon man (Noah). If God was willing to destroy the earth once before He would do it again (at a time of His choosing)........because God is longsuffering toward us and does not want any to perish and wants ALL to come to repentance before the final judgement.

What was Peter's point in mentioning a day in comparison to a thousand years? God does not hold time to the same significance or standard as man, to an eternal being that has always been and will always be.... thousands of years pass like days to us..........
My point exactly. So when the Lord says something is to come shortly. It could be a few thousand years or even more.
What part of THE TIME IS NEAR found in revelation do you fail to comprehend? "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants -- THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS -- (there's no mention of a day or years etc.).
Right, so you don't know if he is referring to 40 years or 2000 years.
And He sent and signified (presented in symbolism) it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the Word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of prophecy; and keep those things which are written in it; FOR THE TIME IS NEAR." -- Rev. 1:1-3

This book of symbolic prophecy was addressed to, "John, to the seven churches which are in Asia; Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before His throne." -- Rev. 1:4

Again........why would the members of these 7 churches be concerned about TRIBULATIONS that were to happen to a generation of people thousands of years in the future?
Because I never said that all his prophesies were to occur in these last days but some would occur starting from the time he gave the prophesy. Go back and read my posts. I disagreed with surada about the Abomination of Desolation being prophesied by Jesus in Matthew 24 as being that of Antiochus IV since that occurred in the past and Jesus was prophesying of the future. I have stated that the Abomination of Desolation was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. But I also pointed out that Jesus prophesied that His second coming would also occur before the current generation should pass away showing her the doctrine of translation and blessing of John the Apostle and how Jesus taught that some of those standing before him would live to see his second coming.

Matthew 16:28​

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Read all of post #112 above for my explanation. I don't believe that Jesus has come again in his kingdom nor do I believe that the following prophecies were fulfilled yet that are to occur before that generation should pass away.

Matthew 24:27, 30
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
...
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So I ask you if you believe that these verses have come to pass? If you do not believe that these verses have yet come to pass, then all that is in Revelation did not come to pass within the 40 years spoken of by surada. Also the generation which Jesus spoke of would not yet have passed away according to Matthew 24.

The people of that day would be concerned because it is not told when the coming of the Lord would be without further revelation regarding the prophesies of the Book of Revelation and the tribulation and destruction of their temple, aka The Abomination of Desolation, which was upon them.
God is not the author of confusion.
I agree but Matthew 24 does prophesy of the second coming of the Lord and it has not yet occurred. The generation has not yet passed away based on my discussion found in post #18 and #112. There is no confusion that the Revelation of John speaks of the second coming of Jesus Christ, the millennium, and the end of this mortal world. My point is that these things did not occur with the 40 year period that surada speaks of and that there is no reference in scripture to "40 years" in relation to Matthew 24 or the Book of Revelation.
That was the point....no? YOU "NEVER SAID", Peter was speaking of TRIBULATION but you attempted to use Peter's quote as confirmation that John when drafting the Book of Revelation (who was speaking of the coming tribulations of the infant church) was speaking about some imagined future events 1800 years in the future that included the second coming of Christ.....when John made it clear.........THE TIME IS NEAR, THINGS SHORTLY TO COME TO PASS. John was not speaking of Christ's 2nd return.....he was addressing the coming tribulations.

While the text of 2 Peter, when taken in context with the subject matter was simply declaring that man and God look at eternity with different visions........a man's physical eternity is limited to 50-100 years while God is an eternal being with no beginning and no ending. Peter is telling the people to have patience as God is longsuffering even if man is impatient, what man might declare a long period of time, its nothing to an eternal God that might compare one human day to a thousand years...... 2nd Peter has nothing to do with revelation which is by majority speaking of comforting the young church even though they were facing great periods of tribulation in the NEAR FUTURE. The majority of the book of revelation is speaking of the church OVERCOMING those coming tribulations.

No where is the RAPTURE or a physical thousand year reign by the Christ at His 2nd coming is mentioned in the book of revelation. When the Christ comes back it will be the final judgement not the beginning of some imagined physical kingdom on earth.........the Christ is never to set foot on earth again, He will meet His church in the Air with the sound that all all mankind will hear at one time.

Since you are quoting Peter why not quote his take on the day of Judgement at the Christ's 2nd coming? 2 Peter 3:10 within the same chapter that you quoted from, "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will be melt with fervent heat, both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up."

Kind'a sounds like the SUN might go supernova when the Lord decides His longsuffering is over................
 
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The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.

There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
The Old Testament doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth by name, but certain prophecies were fulfilled only by Jesus. Daniel 9, for example, mentions some:

Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

This passage lists six prophecies for Israel’s Messiah to fulfill: to finish the transgression, conquer sin, atone for iniquity, bring everlasting righteousness, seal all future visions, and bless and anoint a majestic new most holy place. These things happened with Jesus.

And the kingdom came with Jesus, Daniel's rock built by no human hand that would fill the earth (2:34-35). As it turned out, no one fulfilled these prophecies except Jesus the Nazarene.


Yes, the holy people pined for a warrior king to deliver them from their foreign overlords. This idolatrous people were prone to blaming others for their own iniquity, but Jesus put the blame on them and ended their reign without drawing any blood except his own. He was not the messiah they expected, so they had him killed.

Except Daniel was NOT a prophet, but a historian writing about Antiochus IV..

Jesus Christ believed that Daniel was certainly a prophet:

Mark 13:14

14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:

Matthew 24:15

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Daniel wrote about Antiochus IV as the first Abomination of Desolation. Jesus and Matthew are referencing Daniel.

Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

This time when you see the Abominton of Desolation as spoken of in Daniel, flee Jerusalem to the mountains (and avoid the tribulation)

They were two seperate events..

So Jesus was a liar?

Jesus is referencng the earlier Abominationn of Desolation during the rule of Antiochus IV.

You keep running from my question because it's not religion you detest, it's Christianity. As a Hindu you believe in shiva and all the rest.

You're a moron. I'm Episcopalian.

Horse hockey. You don't believe in Jesus at all.

So much so that I don't think we should tamper with scripture.

Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”

King James Version (KJV)

You "tamper" with Scripture with nearly every post, He is the Word, ALL of the Word, both Old and New Testament. When you twist scripture to fit what you want it to say that is tampering. You may believe in "a" jesus, but not THE Jesus.

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

I didn't write or rewrite any scripture.

Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”

King James Version (KJV)

Of course you. Tell me, is Jesus coming again?

2 Timothy 3:5-7​

King James Version​

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.​


You mean within 40 years? A generation?

LOL, sorry son. My Jesus will return during the future Tribulation and I will meet Him in the clouds and although I WISH it would happen Pre Trib it won't. I will most likely die for my faith. People like you will cheer it on.

That's Tim Lahaye and Hal Lindsey. Read it again.

Sorry, no but it's fine, your "faith" isn't in the "real" Gospel. You have a myopic view of the "truth", one that doesn't take into account the power the reality of a living and and active to this very dau Jesus.
By the way, Hal and Tim are pre-trib, read it again. Unfortunately I'll be going through the Tribulation(if I live that long)

LOLOL Futurists never read scripture.

The tribulation was over in 70 AD.

LOL, you go with that son, I know you think you are the smartest little boy in the class but you aren't. I'm fine with you going to hell it is after all your choice.

I'm a grandmother.. The book of Revelation is addressed to the 7 churchs and happens within 40 years of the crucifixion.

Nope, but hey live and let live. Near as I can tell you think Jesus is an allegory.

Why don't you read this thread... in particular the last three posts by norwegan.

Its REAL simple.. if you trust scripture rather than Hal Lindsey.

Was Jesus born of a virgin?
Was He crucified for our sin?
Was He raised again on the third day?

Yes. What does that have to do with Revelation?

The Greek word parousia (pronounced pair-oo-see-ah) is a noun that means "a coming" or "a presence."

That's only one of it's meaning, no parsing son. It also can mean coming or arrival. Your "interpretation", is your own and that's fine. The problem you have is that He hasn't back in the clouds when all will see him, I know you don't like any of that supernatural stuff but He is coming again and the entire World will see it.
 

The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.

There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
The Old Testament doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth by name, but certain prophecies were fulfilled only by Jesus. Daniel 9, for example, mentions some:

Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

This passage lists six prophecies for Israel’s Messiah to fulfill: to finish the transgression, conquer sin, atone for iniquity, bring everlasting righteousness, seal all future visions, and bless and anoint a majestic new most holy place. These things happened with Jesus.

And the kingdom came with Jesus, Daniel's rock built by no human hand that would fill the earth (2:34-35). As it turned out, no one fulfilled these prophecies except Jesus the Nazarene.


Yes, the holy people pined for a warrior king to deliver them from their foreign overlords. This idolatrous people were prone to blaming others for their own iniquity, but Jesus put the blame on them and ended their reign without drawing any blood except his own. He was not the messiah they expected, so they had him killed.

Except Daniel was NOT a prophet, but a historian writing about Antiochus IV..

Jesus Christ believed that Daniel was certainly a prophet:

Mark 13:14

14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:

Matthew 24:15

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Daniel wrote about Antiochus IV as the first Abomination of Desolation. Jesus and Matthew are referencing Daniel.

Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

This time when you see the Abominton of Desolation as spoken of in Daniel, flee Jerusalem to the mountains (and avoid the tribulation)

They were two seperate events..

So Jesus was a liar?

Jesus is referencng the earlier Abominationn of Desolation during the rule of Antiochus IV.

You keep running from my question because it's not religion you detest, it's Christianity. As a Hindu you believe in shiva and all the rest.

You're a moron. I'm Episcopalian.

Horse hockey. You don't believe in Jesus at all.

So much so that I don't think we should tamper with scripture.

Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”

King James Version (KJV)

You "tamper" with Scripture with nearly every post, He is the Word, ALL of the Word, both Old and New Testament. When you twist scripture to fit what you want it to say that is tampering. You may believe in "a" jesus, but not THE Jesus.

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

I didn't write or rewrite any scripture.

Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”

King James Version (KJV)

Of course you. Tell me, is Jesus coming again?

2 Timothy 3:5-7​

King James Version​

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.​


You mean within 40 years? A generation?

LOL, sorry son. My Jesus will return during the future Tribulation and I will meet Him in the clouds and although I WISH it would happen Pre Trib it won't. I will most likely die for my faith. People like you will cheer it on.

That's Tim Lahaye and Hal Lindsey. Read it again.

Sorry, no but it's fine, your "faith" isn't in the "real" Gospel. You have a myopic view of the "truth", one that doesn't take into account the power the reality of a living and and active to this very dau Jesus.
By the way, Hal and Tim are pre-trib, read it again. Unfortunately I'll be going through the Tribulation(if I live that long)

LOLOL Futurists never read scripture.

The tribulation was over in 70 AD.

LOL, you go with that son, I know you think you are the smartest little boy in the class but you aren't. I'm fine with you going to hell it is after all your choice.

I'm a grandmother.. The book of Revelation is addressed to the 7 churchs and happens within 40 years of the crucifixion.

Nope, but hey live and let live. Near as I can tell you think Jesus is an allegory.

Why don't you read this thread... in particular the last three posts by norwegan.

Its REAL simple.. if you trust scripture rather than Hal Lindsey.

Was Jesus born of a virgin?
Was He crucified for our sin?
Was He raised again on the third day?

Yes. What does that have to do with Revelation?

The Greek word parousia (pronounced pair-oo-see-ah) is a noun that means "a coming" or "a presence."

That's only one of it's meaning, no parsing son. It also can mean coming or arrival. Your "interpretation", is your own and that's fine. The problem you have is that He hasn't back in the clouds when all will see him, I know you don't like any of that supernatural stuff but He is coming again and the entire World will see it.

Don't you think parousia is supernatural? I didn't make up any defiition for parousia.

Meanwhile, Peter died before the destruction of the Temple and the tribulation Jesus spoke of.
 

The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.

There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
The Old Testament doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth by name, but certain prophecies were fulfilled only by Jesus. Daniel 9, for example, mentions some:

Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

This passage lists six prophecies for Israel’s Messiah to fulfill: to finish the transgression, conquer sin, atone for iniquity, bring everlasting righteousness, seal all future visions, and bless and anoint a majestic new most holy place. These things happened with Jesus.

And the kingdom came with Jesus, Daniel's rock built by no human hand that would fill the earth (2:34-35). As it turned out, no one fulfilled these prophecies except Jesus the Nazarene.


Yes, the holy people pined for a warrior king to deliver them from their foreign overlords. This idolatrous people were prone to blaming others for their own iniquity, but Jesus put the blame on them and ended their reign without drawing any blood except his own. He was not the messiah they expected, so they had him killed.

Except Daniel was NOT a prophet, but a historian writing about Antiochus IV..

Jesus Christ believed that Daniel was certainly a prophet:

Mark 13:14

14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:

Matthew 24:15

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Daniel wrote about Antiochus IV as the first Abomination of Desolation. Jesus and Matthew are referencing Daniel.

Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

This time when you see the Abominton of Desolation as spoken of in Daniel, flee Jerusalem to the mountains (and avoid the tribulation)

They were two seperate events..

So Jesus was a liar?

Jesus is referencng the earlier Abominationn of Desolation during the rule of Antiochus IV.

You keep running from my question because it's not religion you detest, it's Christianity. As a Hindu you believe in shiva and all the rest.

You're a moron. I'm Episcopalian.

Horse hockey. You don't believe in Jesus at all.

So much so that I don't think we should tamper with scripture.

Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”

King James Version (KJV)

You "tamper" with Scripture with nearly every post, He is the Word, ALL of the Word, both Old and New Testament. When you twist scripture to fit what you want it to say that is tampering. You may believe in "a" jesus, but not THE Jesus.

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

I didn't write or rewrite any scripture.

Revelation 1:9
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”

King James Version (KJV)

Of course you. Tell me, is Jesus coming again?

2 Timothy 3:5-7​

King James Version​

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.​


You mean within 40 years? A generation?

LOL, sorry son. My Jesus will return during the future Tribulation and I will meet Him in the clouds and although I WISH it would happen Pre Trib it won't. I will most likely die for my faith. People like you will cheer it on.

That's Tim Lahaye and Hal Lindsey. Read it again.

Sorry, no but it's fine, your "faith" isn't in the "real" Gospel. You have a myopic view of the "truth", one that doesn't take into account the power the reality of a living and and active to this very dau Jesus.
By the way, Hal and Tim are pre-trib, read it again. Unfortunately I'll be going through the Tribulation(if I live that long)

LOLOL Futurists never read scripture.

The tribulation was over in 70 AD.

LOL, you go with that son, I know you think you are the smartest little boy in the class but you aren't. I'm fine with you going to hell it is after all your choice.

I'm a grandmother.. The book of Revelation is addressed to the 7 churchs and happens within 40 years of the crucifixion.

Nope, but hey live and let live. Near as I can tell you think Jesus is an allegory.

Why don't you read this thread... in particular the last three posts by norwegan.

Its REAL simple.. if you trust scripture rather than Hal Lindsey.

Was Jesus born of a virgin?
Was He crucified for our sin?
Was He raised again on the third day?

Yes. What does that have to do with Revelation?

The Greek word parousia (pronounced pair-oo-see-ah) is a noun that means "a coming" or "a presence."

That's only one of it's meaning, no parsing son. It also can mean coming or arrival. Your "interpretation", is your own and that's fine. The problem you have is that He hasn't back in the clouds when all will see him, I know you don't like any of that supernatural stuff but He is coming again and the entire World will see it.

Don't you think parousia is supernatural? I didn't make up any defiition for parousia.

Meanwhile, Peter died before the destruction of the Temple and the tribulation Jesus spoke of.

You didn't give it's full meaning, I corrected you.
The problem you have is that He hasn't back in the clouds when all will see him, I know you don't like any of that supernatural stuff but He is coming again and the entire World will see it.
 

2 Peter 3:8

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

To the Lord, the term "shortly" could be several thousand years. There are many things in the Book of Revelation that didn't occur within 40 years or even 1000 years. The Book takes us through the second coming of the Lord in the clouds of heaven, the millennial era and the end of the mortal earth. To say it all occurred within 40 years after the prophesy is absurd.
Why would anyone attempt to understand the "mind of God" when its stated clearly, "For My thoughts are not your thought, nor are your ways My ways, 'Says the Lord'. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than yours, and My thoughts than yours." -- Isaiah 55:8-9
Jesus also taught

John 17:3

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So that they might know him.

Matthew 5:48

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

So that they might become perfect like him.

1 John 5:20

20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

So that they might understand him and become like him and be one with him.


I like the way you "cherry picked" a single sentence away from the contextual integrity of the entire passage. The entire passage includes 2 Peter 3:3-9. Peter is not speaking of any tribulations facing the infant church, he's addressing the 2nd coming of the Lord. On the other hand John is indeed addressing the coming tribulations that will face the infant church.........that will Shortly come to pass. John is speaking to the churches of his day (why would they fear any tribulation or have concern about a future event that would not take place for 1800 years?)
I never said Peter was speaking of tribulation. I simply pointed out to you that one day to the Lord is as a thousand years to us. Thus, what is shortly to come to pass with the Lord may not be what is shortly or near to us.

Peter was warning people there were some claiming that sense the Lord had not returned by now.......was He ever going to return? He told them they were willingly forgetting that the Lord did previously bring judgement upon man (Noah). If God was willing to destroy the earth once before He would do it again (at a time of His choosing)........because God is longsuffering toward us and does not want any to perish and wants ALL to come to repentance before the final judgement.

What was Peter's point in mentioning a day in comparison to a thousand years? God does not hold time to the same significance or standard as man, to an eternal being that has always been and will always be.... thousands of years pass like days to us..........
My point exactly. So when the Lord says something is to come shortly. It could be a few thousand years or even more.
What part of THE TIME IS NEAR found in revelation do you fail to comprehend? "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants -- THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS -- (there's no mention of a day or years etc.).
Right, so you don't know if he is referring to 40 years or 2000 years.
And He sent and signified (presented in symbolism) it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the Word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of prophecy; and keep those things which are written in it; FOR THE TIME IS NEAR." -- Rev. 1:1-3

This book of symbolic prophecy was addressed to, "John, to the seven churches which are in Asia; Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before His throne." -- Rev. 1:4

Again........why would the members of these 7 churches be concerned about TRIBULATIONS that were to happen to a generation of people thousands of years in the future?
Because I never said that all his prophesies were to occur in these last days but some would occur starting from the time he gave the prophesy. Go back and read my posts. I disagreed with surada about the Abomination of Desolation being prophesied by Jesus in Matthew 24 as being that of Antiochus IV since that occurred in the past and Jesus was prophesying of the future. I have stated that the Abomination of Desolation was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. But I also pointed out that Jesus prophesied that His second coming would also occur before the current generation should pass away showing her the doctrine of translation and blessing of John the Apostle and how Jesus taught that some of those standing before him would live to see his second coming.

Matthew 16:28​

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Read all of post #112 above for my explanation. I don't believe that Jesus has come again in his kingdom nor do I believe that the following prophecies were fulfilled yet that are to occur before that generation should pass away.

Matthew 24:27, 30
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
...
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So I ask you if you believe that these verses have come to pass? If you do not believe that these verses have yet come to pass, then all that is in Revelation did not come to pass within the 40 years spoken of by surada. Also the generation which Jesus spoke of would not yet have passed away according to Matthew 24.

The people of that day would be concerned because it is not told when the coming of the Lord would be without further revelation regarding the prophesies of the Book of Revelation and the tribulation and destruction of their temple, aka The Abomination of Desolation, which was upon them.
God is not the author of confusion.
I agree but Matthew 24 does prophesy of the second coming of the Lord and it has not yet occurred. The generation has not yet passed away based on my discussion found in post #18 and #112. There is no confusion that the Revelation of John speaks of the second coming of Jesus Christ, the millennium, and the end of this mortal world. My point is that these things did not occur with the 40 year period that surada speaks of and that there is no reference in scripture to "40 years" in relation to Matthew 24 or the Book of Revelation.
That was the point....no? YOU "NEVER SAID", Peter was speaking of TRIBULATION but you attempted to use Peter's quote as confirmation that John when drafting the Book of Revelation (who was speaking of the coming tribulations of the infant church) was speaking about some imagined future events 1800 years in the future that included the second coming of Christ.....when John made it clear.........THE TIME IS NEAR, THINGS SHORTLY TO COME TO PASS. John was not speaking of Christ's 2nd return.....he was addressing the coming tribulations.

While the text of 2 Peter, when taken in context with the subject matter was simply declaring that man and God look at eternity with different visions........a man's physical eternity is limited to 50-100 years while God is an eternal being with no beginning and no ending. Peter is telling the people to have patience as God is longsuffering even if man is impatient, what man might declare a long period of time, its nothing to an eternal God that might compare one human day to a thousand years...... 2nd Peter has nothing to do with revelation which is by majority speaking of comforting the young church even though they were facing great periods of tribulation in the NEAR FUTURE. The majority of the book of revelation is speaking of the church OVERCOMING those coming tribulations.

No where is the RAPTURE or a physical thousand year reign by the Christ at His 2nd coming is mentioned in the book of revelation. When the Christ comes back it will be the final judgement not the beginning of some imagined physical kingdom on earth.........the Christ is never to set foot on earth again, He will meet His church in the Air with the sound that all all mankind will hear at one time.

Since you are quoting Peter why not quote his take on the day of Judgement at the Christ's 2nd coming? 2 Peter 3:10 within the same chapter that you quoted from, "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will be melt with fervent heat, both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up."

Kind'a sounds like the SUN might go supernova when the Lord decides His longsuffering is over................
The second coming of the Lord has been spoken of by many of the prophets and Jesus Christ himself in various place of the Bible. In the Book of Revelation we have the following:

Revelation 20:11-21
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.


20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

These verses speak of Christ coming and destroying the wicked who assemble themselves against him. We know from other prophesies in the Bible that this speaks of the battle at Har Megiddo aka Armageddon. After his second coming we read in chapter 21 of the binding of Satan for 1000 years and of Christ reigning with the faithful for a 1000 years. This is the time of the millennium. After the 1000 years Satan is loosed again and there is a final battle where Satan and his followers are put in their final destination place for eternity.

The prophet Zechariah also spoke of of these things and proves that after Christ's coming, there will be life on the earth. It also speaks of Christ dwelling on the earth as King over all the earth.

Zechariah 14
At His Second Coming, the Lord will fight for Israel—His feet will stand upon the Mount of Olives—He will be King over all the earth—Plagues will destroy the wicked.

1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and bit shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 ¶ And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 ¶ And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 ¶ In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

These verses are very clear that after the coming of the Lord to destroy the wicked, people will come up to Lord in Jerusalem to worship the him from year to year. This will continue throughout the millennium until Satan is loosed again at the end of the 1000 years. The second coming is not the end of mortal life on earth.

So these things have not happened on the earth yet and the Lord has not yet set his foot again upon the Mount of Olives and created a great earthquake which will divide the mount in half. These are yet to occur. Other prophets also have prophesied of the second coming and the ushering in of the millennial age. When you read all of the prophesies they paint a clearer picture of what is to occur.
 
No where is the RAPTURE or a physical thousand year reign by the Christ at His 2nd coming is mentioned in the book of revelation. When the Christ comes back it will be the final judgement not the beginning of some imagined physical kingdom on earth.........the Christ is never to set foot on earth again, He will meet His church in the Air with the sound that all all mankind will hear at one time.
The final judgment was on Judea. It already happened. Christ already came.
 
onefour1
How arrogant of you to predict the future of people who don't believe your rubbish?
You're not going to heaven because you think you are. You're delusional.
There is no God heaven or hell. Pray and repent until the sun rises in the West and you'll die and rot like everyone.
 

2 Peter 3:8

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

To the Lord, the term "shortly" could be several thousand years. There are many things in the Book of Revelation that didn't occur within 40 years or even 1000 years. The Book takes us through the second coming of the Lord in the clouds of heaven, the millennial era and the end of the mortal earth. To say it all occurred within 40 years after the prophesy is absurd.
Why would anyone attempt to understand the "mind of God" when its stated clearly, "For My thoughts are not your thought, nor are your ways My ways, 'Says the Lord'. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than yours, and My thoughts than yours." -- Isaiah 55:8-9
Jesus also taught

John 17:3

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So that they might know him.

Matthew 5:48

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

So that they might become perfect like him.

1 John 5:20

20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

So that they might understand him and become like him and be one with him.


I like the way you "cherry picked" a single sentence away from the contextual integrity of the entire passage. The entire passage includes 2 Peter 3:3-9. Peter is not speaking of any tribulations facing the infant church, he's addressing the 2nd coming of the Lord. On the other hand John is indeed addressing the coming tribulations that will face the infant church.........that will Shortly come to pass. John is speaking to the churches of his day (why would they fear any tribulation or have concern about a future event that would not take place for 1800 years?)
I never said Peter was speaking of tribulation. I simply pointed out to you that one day to the Lord is as a thousand years to us. Thus, what is shortly to come to pass with the Lord may not be what is shortly or near to us.

Peter was warning people there were some claiming that sense the Lord had not returned by now.......was He ever going to return? He told them they were willingly forgetting that the Lord did previously bring judgement upon man (Noah). If God was willing to destroy the earth once before He would do it again (at a time of His choosing)........because God is longsuffering toward us and does not want any to perish and wants ALL to come to repentance before the final judgement.

What was Peter's point in mentioning a day in comparison to a thousand years? God does not hold time to the same significance or standard as man, to an eternal being that has always been and will always be.... thousands of years pass like days to us..........
My point exactly. So when the Lord says something is to come shortly. It could be a few thousand years or even more.
What part of THE TIME IS NEAR found in revelation do you fail to comprehend? "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants -- THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS -- (there's no mention of a day or years etc.).
Right, so you don't know if he is referring to 40 years or 2000 years.
And He sent and signified (presented in symbolism) it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the Word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of prophecy; and keep those things which are written in it; FOR THE TIME IS NEAR." -- Rev. 1:1-3

This book of symbolic prophecy was addressed to, "John, to the seven churches which are in Asia; Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before His throne." -- Rev. 1:4

Again........why would the members of these 7 churches be concerned about TRIBULATIONS that were to happen to a generation of people thousands of years in the future?
Because I never said that all his prophesies were to occur in these last days but some would occur starting from the time he gave the prophesy. Go back and read my posts. I disagreed with surada about the Abomination of Desolation being prophesied by Jesus in Matthew 24 as being that of Antiochus IV since that occurred in the past and Jesus was prophesying of the future. I have stated that the Abomination of Desolation was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. But I also pointed out that Jesus prophesied that His second coming would also occur before the current generation should pass away showing her the doctrine of translation and blessing of John the Apostle and how Jesus taught that some of those standing before him would live to see his second coming.

Matthew 16:28​

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Read all of post #112 above for my explanation. I don't believe that Jesus has come again in his kingdom nor do I believe that the following prophecies were fulfilled yet that are to occur before that generation should pass away.

Matthew 24:27, 30
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
...
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So I ask you if you believe that these verses have come to pass? If you do not believe that these verses have yet come to pass, then all that is in Revelation did not come to pass within the 40 years spoken of by surada. Also the generation which Jesus spoke of would not yet have passed away according to Matthew 24.

The people of that day would be concerned because it is not told when the coming of the Lord would be without further revelation regarding the prophesies of the Book of Revelation and the tribulation and destruction of their temple, aka The Abomination of Desolation, which was upon them.
God is not the author of confusion.
I agree but Matthew 24 does prophesy of the second coming of the Lord and it has not yet occurred. The generation has not yet passed away based on my discussion found in post #18 and #112. There is no confusion that the Revelation of John speaks of the second coming of Jesus Christ, the millennium, and the end of this mortal world. My point is that these things did not occur with the 40 year period that surada speaks of and that there is no reference in scripture to "40 years" in relation to Matthew 24 or the Book of Revelation.
That was the point....no? YOU "NEVER SAID", Peter was speaking of TRIBULATION but you attempted to use Peter's quote as confirmation that John when drafting the Book of Revelation (who was speaking of the coming tribulations of the infant church) was speaking about some imagined future events 1800 years in the future that included the second coming of Christ.....when John made it clear.........THE TIME IS NEAR, THINGS SHORTLY TO COME TO PASS. John was not speaking of Christ's 2nd return.....he was addressing the coming tribulations.

While the text of 2 Peter, when taken in context with the subject matter was simply declaring that man and God look at eternity with different visions........a man's physical eternity is limited to 50-100 years while God is an eternal being with no beginning and no ending. Peter is telling the people to have patience as God is longsuffering even if man is impatient, what man might declare a long period of time, its nothing to an eternal God that might compare one human day to a thousand years...... 2nd Peter has nothing to do with revelation which is by majority speaking of comforting the young church even though they were facing great periods of tribulation in the NEAR FUTURE. The majority of the book of revelation is speaking of the church OVERCOMING those coming tribulations.

No where is the RAPTURE or a physical thousand year reign by the Christ at His 2nd coming is mentioned in the book of revelation. When the Christ comes back it will be the final judgement not the beginning of some imagined physical kingdom on earth.........the Christ is never to set foot on earth again, He will meet His church in the Air with the sound that all all mankind will hear at one time.

Since you are quoting Peter why not quote his take on the day of Judgement at the Christ's 2nd coming? 2 Peter 3:10 within the same chapter that you quoted from, "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will be melt with fervent heat, both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up."

Kind'a sounds like the SUN might go supernova when the Lord decides His longsuffering is over................
The second coming of the Lord has been spoken of by many of the prophets and Jesus Christ himself in various place of the Bible. In the Book of Revelation we have the following:

Revelation 20:11-21
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.


20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

These verses speak of Christ coming and destroying the wicked who assemble themselves against him. We know from other prophesies in the Bible that this speaks of the battle at Har Megiddo aka Armageddon. After his second coming we read in chapter 21 of the binding of Satan for 1000 years and of Christ reigning with the faithful for a 1000 years. This is the time of the millennium. After the 1000 years Satan is loosed again and there is a final battle where Satan and his followers are put in their final destination place for eternity.

The prophet Zechariah also spoke of of these things and proves that after Christ's coming, there will be life on the earth. It also speaks of Christ dwelling on the earth as King over all the earth.

Zechariah 14
At His Second Coming, the Lord will fight for Israel—His feet will stand upon the Mount of Olives—He will be King over all the earth—Plagues will destroy the wicked.

1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and bit shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 ¶ And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 ¶ And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 ¶ In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

These verses are very clear that after the coming of the Lord to destroy the wicked, people will come up to Lord in Jerusalem to worship the him from year to year. This will continue throughout the millennium until Satan is loosed again at the end of the 1000 years. The second coming is not the end of mortal life on earth.

So these things have not happened on the earth yet and the Lord has not yet set his foot again upon the Mount of Olives and created a great earthquake which will divide the mount in half. These are yet to occur. Other prophets also have prophesied of the second coming and the ushering in of the millennial age. When you read all of the prophesies they paint a clearer picture of what is to occur.
Its clear that you never attempt to read or comprehend any retort that points out your fatal flaws in not following the subject matter, content, text and context of scriptural passages.

To quote you "I never said that revelation does not address in any text the 2nd coming of the Lord". I pointed out the same passages that you are attempting to GOT YA (Rev. 20:11 thru 21:7)...........even in these passages there no mention of a RAPTURE......as the word rapture appears no where in the scriptures.

This is a "classic" example of some rejecting the actual words as written in clear unambiguous text and attempting to mold them around a personal ideology. The Christ died ONCE for Sin....the next time He comes it will have nothing to do with the redemption of sin, but JUDGEMENT. "so Christ was offered ONCE to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly await for Him He will appear a 2nd time, APART FROM OUR SIN............for salvation." -- Heb. 9:28

You have the Christ coming back a 2nd time to physically reign on earth which would contradict God's prophecies and promises. Take for instance a supposed rapture will occur and only the righteous will rise and the evil dead will not rise until the Christ has reigned a 1000 years? What do the words of Christ say about the raising of the dead on judgement?
"Marvel not at this; for the hour cometh, in which ALL THAT ARE IN THEIR TOMBS hear His voice; and shall come forth; those who have done good; unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of judgement." -- John 5:28-29 One judgement for ALL at one time........the final judgement.

Matt. 25:31-34 basically declares the same.......ALL NATIONS will be gathered together for a final judgement in order to separate the sheep from the goats......and eternal judgement.

You might say Matt. 25 is speaking only for the gentiles and not the Jews? The scriptures declare "Go ye therefore and make disciples of ALL NATIONS (including all gentile and Jewish nations). (Matt.28:19)

You are attempting to say that the Christ and His saints will reign over the earth for 1000 years at His 2nd coming...and you quoted Rev. 20: 1-6 or there about? In order to take this passage as PROOF you must abolish the very word of John who said this book of revelation was a BOOK OF SYMBOLISM.....to be signified. This is the only passage in scripture that mentions a 1000 years.........but its contained in a BOOK OF SYMBOLISM, not face value......yet you are applying literalism to this single passage? Really? And the funny thing? You just attempted to use SYMBOLISM in a passage to make a 1000 yrs. appear to be a single day (in 2 Peter a day is a 100 years.....in a book of instruction to be taken literally) now in a book of symbolism a 1000 years literally means a 1000 yrs......not a thousand days?

LOL talk about attempting to mold the scriptures around your own PRIVATE INTERPRETATION, which is forbidden by God in the 1st place......there is no private interpretation allowed as advised by Peter, "............no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation......." -- 2 Peter 1:19-21.

This is the reason that I pointed out your CHERRY PICKING was ignoring the entire subject matter, content and context of 2 Peter.....You ignore "ALL" that Peter has to say and teach while attempting to use but a small fraction of the entire Chapter to prove that a 1000 years is like a day and you must use symbolism in a book dedicated to teaching and inverse a book dedicated to symbolism and take a single passage LITTERALY (Revelation 20)?

Even if taken LITERALLY and not signified (symbolic in nature). Consider the things not literally mentioned in this single passage that is the foundation for a 1000 year reign. 1. No mention of a 2nd coming. 2. No mention of a bodily resurrection. 3. No mention of a reign on earth. 4. No mention of a literal throne of David. 5. No mention of the cities Jerusalem or Palestine. 6. No mention of Christ on earth.

Paul teaches that when Christ returns He will return with a shout from Heaven, with the voice of an archangel, with the trump of God, the dead shall rise and those who are still living will be caught up in the clouds in order to MEET the CHRIST in the air...... (1 Thess. 4:15-17)

The Christ Himself makes it clear, "My kingdom is not of this world....if it were I would fight......." -- John 18:36

But the "FATAL FLAW" with anyone group or organization that teaches Premillennialism is a PROMISE and a PROPHECY made by Father God.

Jer. 22:24-30, A promise made by God that declared NO SEED of the evil king Coniah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah....would ever be allowed to physically reign over Jerusalem ............EVER (forever is a long time).

The significance of this "curse" of God? Jesus is of that physical lineage and cannot physically occupy any throne. The 1st Chapter of Matthew goes into great detail concerning the lineage of David and the tribe of Judah in proving Jesus' lineage. Coniah was the last of David's seed to sit on the throne of Judah. It makes God a liar to suggest that Jesus who was a direct descendent of this lineage will one day physically sit on the throne in Jerusalem for 1000 years.

That's why the Kingdom of Christ is spiritual in nature and not physical. As detailed by the Christ Himself.
 
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onefour1
How arrogant of you to predict the future of people who don't believe your rubbish?
You're not going to heaven because you think you are. You're delusional.
There is no God heaven or hell. Pray and repent until the sun rises in the West and you'll die and rot like everyone.
Just what you are doing in this very post.
 

2 Peter 3:8

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

To the Lord, the term "shortly" could be several thousand years. There are many things in the Book of Revelation that didn't occur within 40 years or even 1000 years. The Book takes us through the second coming of the Lord in the clouds of heaven, the millennial era and the end of the mortal earth. To say it all occurred within 40 years after the prophesy is absurd.
Why would anyone attempt to understand the "mind of God" when its stated clearly, "For My thoughts are not your thought, nor are your ways My ways, 'Says the Lord'. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than yours, and My thoughts than yours." -- Isaiah 55:8-9
Jesus also taught

John 17:3

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So that they might know him.

Matthew 5:48

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

So that they might become perfect like him.

1 John 5:20

20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

So that they might understand him and become like him and be one with him.


I like the way you "cherry picked" a single sentence away from the contextual integrity of the entire passage. The entire passage includes 2 Peter 3:3-9. Peter is not speaking of any tribulations facing the infant church, he's addressing the 2nd coming of the Lord. On the other hand John is indeed addressing the coming tribulations that will face the infant church.........that will Shortly come to pass. John is speaking to the churches of his day (why would they fear any tribulation or have concern about a future event that would not take place for 1800 years?)
I never said Peter was speaking of tribulation. I simply pointed out to you that one day to the Lord is as a thousand years to us. Thus, what is shortly to come to pass with the Lord may not be what is shortly or near to us.

Peter was warning people there were some claiming that sense the Lord had not returned by now.......was He ever going to return? He told them they were willingly forgetting that the Lord did previously bring judgement upon man (Noah). If God was willing to destroy the earth once before He would do it again (at a time of His choosing)........because God is longsuffering toward us and does not want any to perish and wants ALL to come to repentance before the final judgement.

What was Peter's point in mentioning a day in comparison to a thousand years? God does not hold time to the same significance or standard as man, to an eternal being that has always been and will always be.... thousands of years pass like days to us..........
My point exactly. So when the Lord says something is to come shortly. It could be a few thousand years or even more.
What part of THE TIME IS NEAR found in revelation do you fail to comprehend? "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants -- THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS -- (there's no mention of a day or years etc.).
Right, so you don't know if he is referring to 40 years or 2000 years.
And He sent and signified (presented in symbolism) it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the Word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of prophecy; and keep those things which are written in it; FOR THE TIME IS NEAR." -- Rev. 1:1-3

This book of symbolic prophecy was addressed to, "John, to the seven churches which are in Asia; Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before His throne." -- Rev. 1:4

Again........why would the members of these 7 churches be concerned about TRIBULATIONS that were to happen to a generation of people thousands of years in the future?
Because I never said that all his prophesies were to occur in these last days but some would occur starting from the time he gave the prophesy. Go back and read my posts. I disagreed with surada about the Abomination of Desolation being prophesied by Jesus in Matthew 24 as being that of Antiochus IV since that occurred in the past and Jesus was prophesying of the future. I have stated that the Abomination of Desolation was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. But I also pointed out that Jesus prophesied that His second coming would also occur before the current generation should pass away showing her the doctrine of translation and blessing of John the Apostle and how Jesus taught that some of those standing before him would live to see his second coming.

Matthew 16:28​

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Read all of post #112 above for my explanation. I don't believe that Jesus has come again in his kingdom nor do I believe that the following prophecies were fulfilled yet that are to occur before that generation should pass away.

Matthew 24:27, 30
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
...
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So I ask you if you believe that these verses have come to pass? If you do not believe that these verses have yet come to pass, then all that is in Revelation did not come to pass within the 40 years spoken of by surada. Also the generation which Jesus spoke of would not yet have passed away according to Matthew 24.

The people of that day would be concerned because it is not told when the coming of the Lord would be without further revelation regarding the prophesies of the Book of Revelation and the tribulation and destruction of their temple, aka The Abomination of Desolation, which was upon them.
God is not the author of confusion.
I agree but Matthew 24 does prophesy of the second coming of the Lord and it has not yet occurred. The generation has not yet passed away based on my discussion found in post #18 and #112. There is no confusion that the Revelation of John speaks of the second coming of Jesus Christ, the millennium, and the end of this mortal world. My point is that these things did not occur with the 40 year period that surada speaks of and that there is no reference in scripture to "40 years" in relation to Matthew 24 or the Book of Revelation.
That was the point....no? YOU "NEVER SAID", Peter was speaking of TRIBULATION but you attempted to use Peter's quote as confirmation that John when drafting the Book of Revelation (who was speaking of the coming tribulations of the infant church) was speaking about some imagined future events 1800 years in the future that included the second coming of Christ.....when John made it clear.........THE TIME IS NEAR, THINGS SHORTLY TO COME TO PASS. John was not speaking of Christ's 2nd return.....he was addressing the coming tribulations.

While the text of 2 Peter, when taken in context with the subject matter was simply declaring that man and God look at eternity with different visions........a man's physical eternity is limited to 50-100 years while God is an eternal being with no beginning and no ending. Peter is telling the people to have patience as God is longsuffering even if man is impatient, what man might declare a long period of time, its nothing to an eternal God that might compare one human day to a thousand years...... 2nd Peter has nothing to do with revelation which is by majority speaking of comforting the young church even though they were facing great periods of tribulation in the NEAR FUTURE. The majority of the book of revelation is speaking of the church OVERCOMING those coming tribulations.

No where is the RAPTURE or a physical thousand year reign by the Christ at His 2nd coming is mentioned in the book of revelation. When the Christ comes back it will be the final judgement not the beginning of some imagined physical kingdom on earth.........the Christ is never to set foot on earth again, He will meet His church in the Air with the sound that all all mankind will hear at one time.

Since you are quoting Peter why not quote his take on the day of Judgement at the Christ's 2nd coming? 2 Peter 3:10 within the same chapter that you quoted from, "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will be melt with fervent heat, both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up."

Kind'a sounds like the SUN might go supernova when the Lord decides His longsuffering is over................
The second coming of the Lord has been spoken of by many of the prophets and Jesus Christ himself in various place of the Bible. In the Book of Revelation we have the following:

Revelation 20:11-21
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.


20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

These verses speak of Christ coming and destroying the wicked who assemble themselves against him. We know from other prophesies in the Bible that this speaks of the battle at Har Megiddo aka Armageddon. After his second coming we read in chapter 21 of the binding of Satan for 1000 years and of Christ reigning with the faithful for a 1000 years. This is the time of the millennium. After the 1000 years Satan is loosed again and there is a final battle where Satan and his followers are put in their final destination place for eternity.

The prophet Zechariah also spoke of of these things and proves that after Christ's coming, there will be life on the earth. It also speaks of Christ dwelling on the earth as King over all the earth.

Zechariah 14
At His Second Coming, the Lord will fight for Israel—His feet will stand upon the Mount of Olives—He will be King over all the earth—Plagues will destroy the wicked.

1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and bit shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 ¶ And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 ¶ And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 ¶ In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

These verses are very clear that after the coming of the Lord to destroy the wicked, people will come up to Lord in Jerusalem to worship the him from year to year. This will continue throughout the millennium until Satan is loosed again at the end of the 1000 years. The second coming is not the end of mortal life on earth.

So these things have not happened on the earth yet and the Lord has not yet set his foot again upon the Mount of Olives and created a great earthquake which will divide the mount in half. These are yet to occur. Other prophets also have prophesied of the second coming and the ushering in of the millennial age. When you read all of the prophesies they paint a clearer picture of what is to occur.

Mt of Olives is divided by a road.

Zechariah 14 was probably fulfilled in the Maccabean Wars of the second century B.C., these prophecies may have a dual fulfillment in the Jewish War in the first century A.D.

In Zechariah 14:2, the prophet predicts that “all the nations [will be gathered] to Jerusalem to fight against it.”

This seems to have been fulfilled when the Roman legions and auxiliaries consisting of a vast array of ethnic groups from all over the known world attacked Jerusalem in A.D. 70.

Many foreign garrisons from the Roman Empire fought under Titus. It was a quick path to Roman citizenship.
 
Revelation 12:12
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

So the devil was in the Garden of Eden with Adam and he is still on the earth today after some 6000 years or so. To God and Satan this is a short time.
 

2 Peter 3:8

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

To the Lord, the term "shortly" could be several thousand years. There are many things in the Book of Revelation that didn't occur within 40 years or even 1000 years. The Book takes us through the second coming of the Lord in the clouds of heaven, the millennial era and the end of the mortal earth. To say it all occurred within 40 years after the prophesy is absurd.
Why would anyone attempt to understand the "mind of God" when its stated clearly, "For My thoughts are not your thought, nor are your ways My ways, 'Says the Lord'. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than yours, and My thoughts than yours." -- Isaiah 55:8-9
Jesus also taught

John 17:3

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So that they might know him.

Matthew 5:48

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

So that they might become perfect like him.

1 John 5:20

20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

So that they might understand him and become like him and be one with him.


I like the way you "cherry picked" a single sentence away from the contextual integrity of the entire passage. The entire passage includes 2 Peter 3:3-9. Peter is not speaking of any tribulations facing the infant church, he's addressing the 2nd coming of the Lord. On the other hand John is indeed addressing the coming tribulations that will face the infant church.........that will Shortly come to pass. John is speaking to the churches of his day (why would they fear any tribulation or have concern about a future event that would not take place for 1800 years?)
I never said Peter was speaking of tribulation. I simply pointed out to you that one day to the Lord is as a thousand years to us. Thus, what is shortly to come to pass with the Lord may not be what is shortly or near to us.

Peter was warning people there were some claiming that sense the Lord had not returned by now.......was He ever going to return? He told them they were willingly forgetting that the Lord did previously bring judgement upon man (Noah). If God was willing to destroy the earth once before He would do it again (at a time of His choosing)........because God is longsuffering toward us and does not want any to perish and wants ALL to come to repentance before the final judgement.

What was Peter's point in mentioning a day in comparison to a thousand years? God does not hold time to the same significance or standard as man, to an eternal being that has always been and will always be.... thousands of years pass like days to us..........
My point exactly. So when the Lord says something is to come shortly. It could be a few thousand years or even more.
What part of THE TIME IS NEAR found in revelation do you fail to comprehend? "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants -- THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS -- (there's no mention of a day or years etc.).
Right, so you don't know if he is referring to 40 years or 2000 years.
And He sent and signified (presented in symbolism) it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the Word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of prophecy; and keep those things which are written in it; FOR THE TIME IS NEAR." -- Rev. 1:1-3

This book of symbolic prophecy was addressed to, "John, to the seven churches which are in Asia; Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before His throne." -- Rev. 1:4

Again........why would the members of these 7 churches be concerned about TRIBULATIONS that were to happen to a generation of people thousands of years in the future?
Because I never said that all his prophesies were to occur in these last days but some would occur starting from the time he gave the prophesy. Go back and read my posts. I disagreed with surada about the Abomination of Desolation being prophesied by Jesus in Matthew 24 as being that of Antiochus IV since that occurred in the past and Jesus was prophesying of the future. I have stated that the Abomination of Desolation was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. But I also pointed out that Jesus prophesied that His second coming would also occur before the current generation should pass away showing her the doctrine of translation and blessing of John the Apostle and how Jesus taught that some of those standing before him would live to see his second coming.

Matthew 16:28​

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Read all of post #112 above for my explanation. I don't believe that Jesus has come again in his kingdom nor do I believe that the following prophecies were fulfilled yet that are to occur before that generation should pass away.

Matthew 24:27, 30
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
...
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So I ask you if you believe that these verses have come to pass? If you do not believe that these verses have yet come to pass, then all that is in Revelation did not come to pass within the 40 years spoken of by surada. Also the generation which Jesus spoke of would not yet have passed away according to Matthew 24.

The people of that day would be concerned because it is not told when the coming of the Lord would be without further revelation regarding the prophesies of the Book of Revelation and the tribulation and destruction of their temple, aka The Abomination of Desolation, which was upon them.
God is not the author of confusion.
I agree but Matthew 24 does prophesy of the second coming of the Lord and it has not yet occurred. The generation has not yet passed away based on my discussion found in post #18 and #112. There is no confusion that the Revelation of John speaks of the second coming of Jesus Christ, the millennium, and the end of this mortal world. My point is that these things did not occur with the 40 year period that surada speaks of and that there is no reference in scripture to "40 years" in relation to Matthew 24 or the Book of Revelation.
That was the point....no? YOU "NEVER SAID", Peter was speaking of TRIBULATION but you attempted to use Peter's quote as confirmation that John when drafting the Book of Revelation (who was speaking of the coming tribulations of the infant church) was speaking about some imagined future events 1800 years in the future that included the second coming of Christ.....when John made it clear.........THE TIME IS NEAR, THINGS SHORTLY TO COME TO PASS. John was not speaking of Christ's 2nd return.....he was addressing the coming tribulations.

While the text of 2 Peter, when taken in context with the subject matter was simply declaring that man and God look at eternity with different visions........a man's physical eternity is limited to 50-100 years while God is an eternal being with no beginning and no ending. Peter is telling the people to have patience as God is longsuffering even if man is impatient, what man might declare a long period of time, its nothing to an eternal God that might compare one human day to a thousand years...... 2nd Peter has nothing to do with revelation which is by majority speaking of comforting the young church even though they were facing great periods of tribulation in the NEAR FUTURE. The majority of the book of revelation is speaking of the church OVERCOMING those coming tribulations.

No where is the RAPTURE or a physical thousand year reign by the Christ at His 2nd coming is mentioned in the book of revelation. When the Christ comes back it will be the final judgement not the beginning of some imagined physical kingdom on earth.........the Christ is never to set foot on earth again, He will meet His church in the Air with the sound that all all mankind will hear at one time.

Since you are quoting Peter why not quote his take on the day of Judgement at the Christ's 2nd coming? 2 Peter 3:10 within the same chapter that you quoted from, "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will be melt with fervent heat, both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up."

Kind'a sounds like the SUN might go supernova when the Lord decides His longsuffering is over................
The second coming of the Lord has been spoken of by many of the prophets and Jesus Christ himself in various place of the Bible. In the Book of Revelation we have the following:

Revelation 20:11-21
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.


20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

These verses speak of Christ coming and destroying the wicked who assemble themselves against him. We know from other prophesies in the Bible that this speaks of the battle at Har Megiddo aka Armageddon. After his second coming we read in chapter 21 of the binding of Satan for 1000 years and of Christ reigning with the faithful for a 1000 years. This is the time of the millennium. After the 1000 years Satan is loosed again and there is a final battle where Satan and his followers are put in their final destination place for eternity.

The prophet Zechariah also spoke of of these things and proves that after Christ's coming, there will be life on the earth. It also speaks of Christ dwelling on the earth as King over all the earth.

Zechariah 14
At His Second Coming, the Lord will fight for Israel—His feet will stand upon the Mount of Olives—He will be King over all the earth—Plagues will destroy the wicked.

1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and bit shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 ¶ And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 ¶ And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 ¶ In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

These verses are very clear that after the coming of the Lord to destroy the wicked, people will come up to Lord in Jerusalem to worship the him from year to year. This will continue throughout the millennium until Satan is loosed again at the end of the 1000 years. The second coming is not the end of mortal life on earth.

So these things have not happened on the earth yet and the Lord has not yet set his foot again upon the Mount of Olives and created a great earthquake which will divide the mount in half. These are yet to occur. Other prophets also have prophesied of the second coming and the ushering in of the millennial age. When you read all of the prophesies they paint a clearer picture of what is to occur.

Mt of Olives is divided by a road.

Zechariah 14 was probably fulfilled in the Maccabean Wars of the second century B.C., these prophecies may have a dual fulfillment in the Jewish War in the first century A.D.

In Zechariah 14:2, the prophet predicts that “all the nations [will be gathered] to Jerusalem to fight against it.”

This seems to have been fulfilled when the Roman legions and auxiliaries consisting of a vast array of ethnic groups from all over the known world attacked Jerusalem in A.D. 70.

Many foreign garrisons from the Roman Empire fought under Titus. It was a quick path to Roman citizenship.

Zechariah 14:3-4
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Does that sound like a road? So, in 70 AD did the Lord come down and set his feet upon the mount of Olives and did it cleave toward the east and toward the west and create a very great valley? NO!
 
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Revelation 12:12
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

So the devil was in the Garden of Eden with Adam and he is still on the earth today after some 6000 years or so. To God and Satan this is a short time.

He's saying the devil has a short time left.
 
There's no future battle of Armageddon.

The battle of Armageddon or Har Megiddon is written about in Zechariah as well. Read chapters 12-14 to know the whole outcome. Verse Zech 12:11 mentions that it will be like past battles in Meggidon.

Revelation 16:14-21
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Did every island flee away in 70 AD and were the mountains not found? How about the great hail out of heaven where every hailstone was about the weight of a talent (approximately 75 lbs)?
 
Revelation 12:12
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

So the devil was in the Garden of Eden with Adam and he is still on the earth today after some 6000 years or so. To God and Satan this is a short time.

He's saying the devil has a short time left.
The verse says he came down unto us having great wrath because he knew that he had but a short time. So when did he come down? He's been down here since the time of Adam and Eve. So this is telling us that since the time he came down, which was at least 6000 years ago, he felt that he had but a short time. He is saying that the devil had a short time left but that was from the time he came down unto us which was in the days of Adam and Eve.
 
The Book of Revelation doesn't even mention the word SYMBOLISM or SYMBOLIC. It is your own assumption. I don't know how you come up with everyone being judged at once. Revelation 20 clearly delineates 2 resurrections. The first resurrection will occur at his coming and the second will occur after the 1000 years.

CHAPTER 20

Satan is bound during the Millennium—The Saints will then live and reign with Christ—The dead stand before God and are judged out of the books according to their works.

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I want you to notice that the first 4 verses talk about the angel of God coming down from heaven to the earth and binding Satan for 1000 years so he could not deceive the nations any more until the 1000 years was over. After the 1000 years Satan would be loosed for a little season. In verse 4 it speaks of those who sit upon the thrones and how judgment is given to them. Then it speaks of the righteous who have died in Christ and who were beheaded and persecuted and were faithful unto the Lord and tells how they lived again with Christ for 1000 years.
In verse 5 it tells us that the rest of the dead did not live again until the 1000 years were finished. It then explains that those who did live with Christ for the 1000 years was the first resurrection. Verse 6 then explains that those who come forth in the first resurrection are blessed to be Priests of God and Christ and will reign with Christ 1000 years and the second death will have no power over them.
Verses 7-10 tells us that after the 1000 years, Satan again will be loosed from his binding and the great battle of Gog and Magog will ensue. Satan shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the 4 quarters of the earth. It is then that Satan and his minions will be cast into The Lake of Fire and Brimstone. Note that this battle occurs on the earth 1000 years after the first resurrection.
Verses 11-15 speak of the final judgement of those who are the rest of the dead who are mentioned in verse 5 and those who live through the great battle. Those who were on the Lord's side in the battle have their names written in the book of life and those who were on Satan's side were not found in the book of life but were cast into the lake of fire and brimstone.

It is absolutely clear that there is a 1000 year period between the first resurrection and the second resurrection. These two resurrections are known as the resurrection of the just and the resurrection of the unjust or the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation.

John 5:29-30
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Luke 14:14
14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

Acts 24:15
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

It should be noted that when Satan is loosed, he will go out to deceive the nations in the four quarters of the earth. From this we see that men will have lived upon the earth until the 1000 years have expired and Satan will go out to decieve them. If Satan was bound durng the 1000 years, how much evil was in the earth during that time? The 1000 years will be the time when Jesus, our Lord, will be king of the whole earth.

Zechariah 14:9,16-17
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
 
There's no future battle of Armageddon.

The battle of Armageddon or Har Megiddon is written about in Zechariah as well. Read chapters 12-14 to know the whole outcome. Verse Zech 12:11 mentions that it will be like past battles in Meggidon.

Revelation 16:14-21
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Did every island flee away in 70 AD and were the mountains not found? How about the great hail out of heaven where every hailstone was about the weight of a talent (approximately 75 lbs)?

The great hail were the big stones catapulted on to Jerusalem by the armies of Titus.
 
There's no future battle of Armageddon.

The battle of Armageddon or Har Megiddon is written about in Zechariah as well. Read chapters 12-14 to know the whole outcome. Verse Zech 12:11 mentions that it will be like past battles in Meggidon.

Revelation 16:14-21
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Did every island flee away in 70 AD and were the mountains not found? How about the great hail out of heaven where every hailstone was about the weight of a talent (approximately 75 lbs)?

The great hail were the big stones catapulted on to Jerusalem by the armies of Titus.
So did Titus also make the mountains to not be found and the islands to flee away?
 
onefour1
Please excuse me. I didn't know it was illegal for me to be here. Are you the person who decides who posts and who doesn't?
Settle down. Do you think you can spray your religious crap everywhere and no one challenge you?
Not while I'm here.
 

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